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New Crafting System: Remove Dilithium Requirements
carcharodon1975
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I would like to start this post with just saying: crafting revamp.....FINALLY!!!! It only took 4 years....
While I was writing this post between going back and forth between the forums and game,I just realized that with the Doff system involved the outcome of a crafting project is not certain,and in a way you are gambling with the resources needed for each item....resources like Dilithium! While the item may not be lost when the project 'fails',you did spend quite a bit of Dilithium on a rare (blue) item.
There are plenty of Dilithium sinkholes in the game,this 'gambling' with Dilithium is unnecessary.In fact,Dilithium should be taken out of crafting altogether.Increase the amount of other resources needed,make people work for their crafted items like it is done in other MMO's.
While I was writing this post between going back and forth between the forums and game,I just realized that with the Doff system involved the outcome of a crafting project is not certain,and in a way you are gambling with the resources needed for each item....resources like Dilithium! While the item may not be lost when the project 'fails',you did spend quite a bit of Dilithium on a rare (blue) item.
There are plenty of Dilithium sinkholes in the game,this 'gambling' with Dilithium is unnecessary.In fact,Dilithium should be taken out of crafting altogether.Increase the amount of other resources needed,make people work for their crafted items like it is done in other MMO's.
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Post edited by carcharodon1975 on
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We shouldn't be making phaser arrays from scratch! We should be buying phaser arrays from the various stores and then using the crafting system to tweak and improve them.
So I should be able to put in my Biometric Phaser Array Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg] [CrtH] and change any given [mod]. Or perhaps upgrade a standard Phaser Array to an Andorian Phaser Array or a Spiral Wave Disruptor.
Crafting should be what you do to maximise the purchases you've already made. Not just another store.
Personally, I'd like to see a trade-in upgrade system for resources that let you upgrade the quality.
Ex.
10 common materials + 100 dilithium = 1 uncommon material.
10 uncommon materials + 500 dilithium = 1 rare material
10 rare materials + 1000-2000 dilithium = 1 very rare material
?10 very rare materials + 5000 dilithium = 1 ultra rare material?
With that said, I don't see crafting being a viable alternative market unless the creation of items is no more than a third of the cost of reputation/fleet store counterparts. People will never make up for the massive resource sink to develop crafting skills otherwise.
Lastly, I cannot stress enough that gambling and crafting simply do not mix. It's fine if you want to leave stuff like ultra rare gear as only a critical success chance, but crafting up to purple/very rare quality should be guaranteed if you put in the requisite resources.
Even if they kept the random rarity but let you select all the mods it would have 'if' you rolled a very rare I'd be happier.
Did they not just basicly change the Reputation to work that way. This seems like the completely opposite setup where it costs you MASSIVE amounts of D for a chance role. Where the Rep system pays you a small amount for taking a chance role.
This makes no sense at all really.
Going to have to visit tribble today to find out for sure.
I DON'T want to gamble with it, though. The Dil requirement should be based on the lowest item you are CERTAIN to get, so you don't have a chance to fail and lose dilithium, rather you have a chance to succeed and get MORE for your money's worth.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
when leveling up the skill im ok with varied results in quality but once we get to a point where its costing dil that needs to go away and become a given. or change the dil requirements to the amount of the lowest possible outcome. as they are now its just way to much for a maybe.
so really the dil costs need to be cut back drastically or remove the maybe/gambling aspect at maxed rep lvl.
and the pay more dil to complete now WOW has it really come to that ?
I am willing to bet my entire stack of crafting mats that neither the dilithium requirement nor the randomization will change before this hit holodeck.
Then this crafting revamp is gonna be dead before it even launches. That's all there is to it.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
ill do it upto the point it starts asking for dil. then ill just walk away. if the trends stay as they are plenty of money to be made in low lvl purple gear for feddy bears that lvl up alts and have money to burn.
Not to defend it, because I disagree with it and am disappointed they're going that way so far...but it does kind of make a lot of sense.
Romulan DOFF Packs are 275 ZEN gamble packs...how many folks are getting that 275 ZEN via Dil conversion? Er, last I looked it was 153 Dil/ZEN (easily could have changed since then)...so that's 42075 Dil gambled.
What about Lock Box keys? Some folks get them via Dil conversion as well. 125 ZEN...so...19125 Dil gambled, eh?
Cryptic might be looking at the fact that folks are more than willing to gamble with Dil out the wahzoo for things...
...but they're severely overlooking why folks are willing to gamble that Dil. Folks aren't dropping out almost 20k Dil in the hopes of getting a weapon pack from a Lock Box that they can further gamble will have the weapon they want...it's not a case that the 20k Dil odds of Crafting are better than those odds (well, they are) - cause that's not what folks are gambling on. They're gambling on getting something really good. Crafting isn't gambling on getting something really good - it's gambling to get something pretty good.
So the amount being gambled...well...it's better gambled elsewhere. For each Crafting gamble, one could Lock Box gamble instead. Even if they never get anything more than 4 Lobi and TRIBBLE DOFF packs...eventually they'll have enough to buy a Lobi ship that they can sell and get something out of it. Odds are, they're not just going to get 4 Lobi and a TRIBBLE DOFF pack each and every time - so they might get something (not a ship) that's useful or financially rewarding along the way. It's just a better gamble...
...so one can see where Cryptic might see folks as more than willing to gamble with their Dil, but they need to take a better look at why they're gambling with their Dil if they want to keep the gambling aspect in...and adjust the cost to gamble.
Or my preference, just take the gambling aspect out in that sense...
Well, my actual preference would be gambling for more - you know what you're going to get, but there's a chance to get something even better.
Say I want that VR Tetryon DHC Mk XII [Acc]x3...say there's a small chance of it being even better - ooooohhhhh - add in the Catalysts and the like for that...and well, you're providing something for both the crafter and the gambler, eh?
This though...this...I'd rather gamble the Dil away on Lock Boxes than end up with a Green Tetryon DHC Mk XII [Dmg].
Not if the dil cost is that high.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Doom is really coming, for I'm agreeing with you totally.
20k dil cost...it would be somewhat acceptable if the crafting levelled fast, and gave you unique mods for guranteed purple items.
Like crafting an Antiproton very rare weapon with Crth Crtd Disruptor proc.
But for a random normal item? Nobody with a lick of common sense is going to throw 20k dil at a "maybe" purple weapon.
Exactly. Cryptic's metrics can show what is happening, but by their very definition metrics cannot show why it is happening. And Cryptic is infamous for their ability to misinterpret the why of cause and effect.
This would be a far superior solution that still keeps dilithium in the mix. You cannot have dilithium costs and total random results in the same system. Either the dilithium costs need to go, or the randomization needs to go, unless it is a randomized "ooohh, bonus!" that might happen on top of already having a known outcome.
Joined January 2009
Completely agreed.
You can't have both Dilithium cost and randomization like that.
And I had a choice, I think I prefer the Dilithium cost over randomization. But others may feel differently. (And some will want neither.)
Another way to bring randomization into it (with or without Dilithium) could be that you may yield extra crafting materials, catalysts or extra experience points for good results - but the quality and the attributes of the item are exactly what you started out to do.
"Critical Success! Your officers were able to assemble the requisitioned equipment using unorthodox techniques that boosted efficiency and required fewer components. *excess components returned to player inventory; extra crafting experience added*"
Joined January 2009
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I hate that you are absolutely correct.
However there are presently a lot of purple weapons now that DO require dilithium. If you remove the Dil requirement no one with a lick of sense is going to bother with the reptuation stores or perhaps even their fleet stores depending on their priorities.
Dil costs are a must if we're not to undermine other parts of the game. Perhaps not at the scale of 20k but the alternative should be lowering that cost, not removing it.
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I didn't craft before, and I'm not gonna on the new system. Just not worth the effort.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Not true. You're functioning under the false assumption that the only possible investment of value is Dilithium. This simply holds true in the game as stands because Cryptic has allowed it to hold true, and they've done this because it exchanges with a real money currency and thus allows them to monetize the game.
Here's the thing... they don't HAVE to monetize absolutely every damned part of the game from top to bottom they simply choose to.
Fact of the matter is, crafting is traditionally seen as an alternate method of attaining gear in MMOs. Cryptic absolutely could require the player to invest other materials which are difficult to acquire, and/or via time gating. It doesn't have to be Dilithium, we could actually have an alternate method of attaining top-end gear than Dilithium and Elite queued grindfests but... god forbid, right?
And hey, they could even ditch the direct Dilithium cost and still monetize crafting by attaching it to an already monetized portion of the game, like the DOff system since DOffs are already both sold for Dilithium and in the C-Store. They could also put packs of rarer crafting materials in the C-Store. Or... with a chance mechanic they could add a purchasable device that would increase the likelihood of success or reduce the likelihood of failure when used. I mean, they could absolultely remove the Dilithium cost and attach any one of these methods to still monetize the syst... OH WAIT! THEY ADDED ALL OF THEM AND DILITHIUM TOO ! :mad:
Hey, folks are Crypitc, you listening? This is why the majority of people hate you. Just so you know...
I'm operating under the assumption of how STO demonstrably operates. You may have a different vision for what the game could be but its not MY responsibility to account for that.
They haven't. Dilithium may be obtained via other means than Zen. In fact you may personally view every damned part of the game as being entirely unmonetized, though of course STO has the flexibility to allow people take the opposite point of view if they so choose to.
So Cryptic should provide another type of resource that takes time to aquire and only via special channels that require some bit of effort. So in fact you are asking for Dilithium in everything but name and exchange.
You see how that would be a little redundant, right?
Again assuming of course that the only means by which you aquire those items is paid Dilithium. That again is by no means a reasonable assumption, that's simply an excuse to riot.
Cryptics monetization system stands as a paired choice between playtime and money. You can use one to substitute for another. You CAN go on conventional a harvest grind OR you could just put a little money down on a resource bundle. The choice is up to you and there's no question on which direction you would personally take. So, why try to whip up a mob when all crytpic has done here is provide alternatives to customary MMO gameplay in what is just an extension of their F2P business model that after two years in operation we should all be comfortable with?
This is not a reasonable statement by any stretch of the imagination. Take a step back and try to figure out for yourself why and you might have a happier time in future dealing with change.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!