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Borg using BFAW?

lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
Just been through CSE and was trying to land some hits with various HY torps but nearly every time I let loose a targetable torp (heavy grav, or HY plasma) they got shot down by the borg and never got remotely close to the targets.

Have the borg always used BFAW? I've never noticed this sort tactic before this week, it was like trying to fight the Voth (who definately do spam BFAW).
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Comments

  • edited May 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    They've been using BFAW for a while. Most esp. the gates. It's hard to see the shots because of all the spam and pixy dust glitter. I mean, the game engine has trouble showing EWP because there's too much stuff going onscreen. Ever since S9, you may have trouble seeing your own ship's energy weapons firing because of all the fairy dust of this game. The only way you can tell your shots are going still is watchign for damage and seeing your weapon icons cycle.
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I know gates and tac cubes do. I guess if you're getting it in CSE, then regular cubes as well.
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I thought they started used it when they were revamped, when the sector alerts arrived.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Sorry but there is nothing good about NPC's spamming BFAW.

    The BFAW spam pretty much renders all forms of targetable projectiles and fighters obsolete.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Sorry but there is nothing good about NPC's spamming BFAW.

    The BFAW spam pretty much renders all forms of targetable projectiles and fighters obsolete.

    Yeah it gets annoying, seems like all Cryptic wants is everyone and everything to FAW spam...just wait till npc's get A2B! :mad:
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yes, it is terrible if a Cube destroys all your Pets and you have to push that button to make more of them. :D
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It suddenly occurs to me how little sense it makes though.

    The Borg don't have independent will so firing "at will" seems like the wrong special to give them, doesn't it?
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It suddenly occurs to me how little sense it makes though.

    The Borg don't have independent will so firing "at will" seems like the wrong special to give them, doesn't it?
    It makes more sense if you just assume the Borg are using multiple Arrays to shoot the targets around them. The name the "humans" give this ability really has no bearing on what it does. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Yes, it is terrible if a Cube destroys all your Pets and you have to push that button to make more of them. :D

    I find it hard to take seriously anyone who trivializes a serious problem.
    Targetable munitions and non frigate pets are at a serious disadvantage here, being completely 110% useless in PvP and now is also being pushed out of PvE content as well.

    Why do we even have them if they are good for pretty much nothing?
    There are some serious design flaws here.
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It suddenly occurs to me how little sense it makes though.

    The Borg don't have independent will so firing "at will" seems like the wrong special to give them, doesn't it?

    Fire in synch maybe? Fire as one? One firing as many?
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I find it hard to take seriously anyone who trivializes a serious problem.
    Targetable munitions and non frigate pets are at a serious disadvantage here, being completely 110% useless in PvP and now is also being pushed out of PvE content as well.

    Why do we even have them if they are good for pretty much nothing?
    There are some serious design flaws here.
    I find it hard to take seriously anyone who assumes the AI is complex or difficult in this game, or that even ESTF space combat against the Borg takes anything more then a matter of minutes to achieve victory. Heck, if I am in an ESTF that takes more then 5 minutes I consider the team to be flawed.

    Why is the FAW tactic fine when a PC does it but cheating or wrong when the AI does it? It is really about the only defense the Borg have against over-powered ships that can already defeat them in seconds.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I find it hard to take seriously anyone who assumes the AI is complex or difficult in this game, or that even ESTF space combat against the Borg takes anything more then a matter of minutes to achieve victory. Heck, if I am in an ESTF that takes more then 5 minutes I consider the team to be flawed.

    Why is the FAW tactic fine when a PC does it but cheating or wrong when the AI does it? It is really about the only defense the Borg have against over-powered ships that can already defeat them in seconds.

    First of all, not once here did i state or imply that the AI is in any way complex or difficult.
    And no, I do not think FAW spam is fine for player characters either, which is why I made a mention of PvP as well.

    What I take issue with here is broken game mechanics and the obsolescence of significant portions of game content, in this case all targetable projectiles and light carrier craft/pets which are virtually impossible to use to any degree of efficiency in large portions of playable content today.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    First of all, not once here did i state or imply that the AI is in any way complex or difficult.
    And no, I do not think FAW spam is fine for player characters either, which is why I made a mention of PvP as well.

    What I take issue with here is broken game mechanics and the obsolescence of significant portions of game content, in this case all targetable projectiles and light carrier craft/pets which are virtually impossible to use to any degree of efficiency in large portions of playable content today.
    If it were a complex process to spawn new Pets, or you were only allowed so many Pets per day, I might agree with you, but being forced to push a single button and do some fighting by yourself for a couple of seconds while the Pets spawn is not a big deal, IMO.

    The player is supposed to be an active part of the combat process. The game was really not designed for you to just watch.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    If it were a complex process to spawn new Pets, or you were only allowed so many Pets per day, I might agree with you, but being forced to push a single button and do some fighting by yourself for a couple of seconds while the Pets spawn is not a big deal, IMO.

    The player is supposed to be an active part of the combat process. The game was really not designed for you to just watch.

    You just don't get it do you?

    Spawning new waves of pets like fighters is of absolutely no use at all to anyone if they can't even survive enough to deal any kind of significant damage to their target, unlike the more heavily armed and shielded frigate type pets.

    And it still also leaves the matter of targetable projectiles which is what this thread is mainly about, that get wiped out before they even get close to their targets from all the FAW and general AoE damage spam.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You just don't get it do you?

    Spawning new waves of pets like fighters is of absolutely no use at all to anyone if they can't even survive enough to deal any kind of significant damage to their target, unlike the more heavily armed and shielded frigate type pets.

    And it still also leaves the matter of targetable projectiles which is what this thread is mainly about, that get wiped out before they even get close to their targets from all the FAW and general AoE damage spam.
    In case you have not bothered to read my Sig, my main uses a Carrier and has done so for a long time. I am aware of the problem but I do not consider it to be a big deal. The power creep in this game is insane and respawning Pets is a minor inconvenience at best.

    There are videos on YouTube of Carriers soloing ESTFs. They are not complex battles even if you have to respawn Pets every so often. I have defeated many Cubes in my Carrier without Pets. There is a reason those ships are given weapon slots. :)

    Anyway, as you and I are never going to agree so I will let you continue your rant unabated by me. It is just not a big deal to me. Whether it is FAW or Mines or cannons/torpedo spread, or whatever, there is always going to be something to kill Pets. That is what balance is about.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    And again you are completely missing the point entirely.
  • kaiserkactokaiserkacto Member Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I like the idea of enemy NPCs using more and more abilities. They suddenly feel like actual enemies and not just dummies for targeting practices.


    I think a player should be smart enough to wait for the cooldown before launching destructible torpedoes, instead of just mindlessly smashing buttons.


    AI pets on the other hand also need a huge AI improvement, so you can give them a "retreat order" before they can be slaughtered
    "In every age,
    In every place,
    The deeds of men remain the same..."
    12701.png
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    And again you are completely missing the point entirely.



    You're BOTH missing the point! There are people in those fighters. :(
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    You're BOTH missing the point! There are people in those fighters. :(
    Mine are piloted by Photonics, whose consciousness get beamed back to the ship if their smallcraft is destroyed. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Mine are piloted by Photonics, whose consciousness get beamed back to the ship if their smallcraft is destroyed. :)


    Well, thats okay then. ;)
  • erraberrab Member Posts: 1,434 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I like the idea of enemy NPCs using more and more abilities. They suddenly feel like actual enemies and not just dummies for targeting practices.


    I think a player should be smart enough to wait for the cooldown before launching destructible torpedoes, instead of just mindlessly smashing buttons.


    AI pets on the other hand also need a huge AI improvement, so you can give them a "retreat order" before they can be slaughtered

    That in of it self is a problem because time and time again that NPC have shown that they do not adhere to the same type of cool downs that the players have.

    How many times have you been caught in a Borg Tractor beam and broken it with Polarize Hull or APO only to have the same Borg NPC hit you with another Tractor Beam 10 seconds latter :mad:

    I do not mind one bit that the Npc are using FAW just has long has they have the normal length cool down that a non A2B spammer should have.

    I'm glad that the NPC are getting more abilities added to them has it makes them seem a bit more real.

    They need to add the ability to focuse fire and cross heal to NPC ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    errab wrote: »
    That in of it self is a problem because time and time again that NPC have shown that they do not adhere to the same type of cool downs that the players have.

    How many times have you been caught in a Borg Tractor beam and broken it with Polarize Hull or APO only to have the same Borg NPC hit you with another Tractor Beam 10 seconds latter :mad:

    I do not mind one bit that the Npc are using FAW just has long has they have the normal length cool down that a non A2B spammer should have.

    I'm glad that the NPC are getting more abilities added to them has it makes them seem a bit more real.

    They need to add the ability to focuse fire and cross heal to NPC ;)

    What if the Borg had that famed regeneration and repair rates in-game? Namely the large stuff like Cubes? :cool:
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  • edited May 2014
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    You're BOTH missing the point! There are people in those fighters. :(

    I know! LOL!!!
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  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    You're BOTH missing the point! There are people in those fighters. :(

    If the Jem'hadar Attack Ship pets are any indication, they beam out!
  • nikkojtnikkojt Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    My Fed sci has two cluster torps for her primaries. Voth STFs are pretty much unplayable for her in that ship because of the amount of relentless FAW spam - her main sources of consistent damage become completely unusable. I haven't noticed this occurring in Borg STFs yet, and I bloody well hope it doesn't, because I don't think she'd handle Borg ground stuff as well as she does the Voth.
    I am NikkoJT, Foundry author and terrible player. Follow me!
    There used to be a picture here, but they changed signatures and I can't be bothered to replace it.
  • edited May 2014
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    To be honest I'm all for the npcs using more skills and powers to give the game some sort of challenge, as long as they have the same stuff we can access.

    If you're trying to outwit the enemy most of your powers are aimed at countering the equivalent player available powers. So when an npc uses some super-powered ability it can seem unfair.

    The Borg still died regardless of their spam though, I just adapted my attacks and stopped using HY torps.

    The disappearing energy weapons is annoying though and it is affecting npcs too, so that makes fights considerably more challenging but not in a good way.
    SulMatuul.png
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited May 2014
    So, yeah, the Borg have been using BFAW for a while. You look for the BFAW icon on the big targets & subnuke it or wait it out if you want to launch a targetable torpedo like the Breen Cluster. This is not new.

    As for Voth, with spammed Voth ships spamming BFAW... they also spam CPB & all sorts of anti-cloak stuff, so my normal B'rel tactics don't work against them. You just have to adapt what you do to what you're doing at the time... it's not rocket surgery.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
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