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Playable Tal Shiar?
prierin
Member Posts: 7 Arc User
I'll admit it, I want my character to be Tal Shiar. I see them as somewhat the equivalent to Starfleet's Section 31 and Id love to see a playable storyline arc focusing on playing the other side of the Romulan resistance. Any other Rommies out there feel the same? Enough to make Cryptic take the idea seriously?
Secondly, my Rom tac has a Scimitar and I have a question can I make the wings extend? Ive seen this in other scims and I am I missing something or ?
Secondly, my Rom tac has a Scimitar and I have a question can I make the wings extend? Ive seen this in other scims and I am I missing something or ?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
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Instead, we have D'Tan, Faux Romulus and the Republic :P
as for tal shiar...heheh, my tactical romulan (leveling without spending any SP until i hit 50) till thinks she is part of the tal shiar...even after "escaping".
That said, there's enough in game that you can get a crew that feels decently like a part of the Tal Shiar - we get the uniforms, you can buy Nanite disruptors, use the Borg set, and so on. I do this on one of my Romulans (he uses an Adapted Battle Cruiser to complete the effect) and it works pretty well, even if it's not perfect.
And from what I read on the forums, I get the feeling there are a lot of undercover operatives in the Republic... :P
AS for the spreading of the wings... booooo!
Thanks for the responses all.
Correctomundo. Especially when you can be a Federation protectorate.
The Tal'Diann will be watching you very closely. *sharpens her Honor Blade*
Other factions' fans deserve to have their faction in STO more than the Romulan fans deserve having 2 factions.
I wan't to play as a true imperialist romulan, not these peace loving space elves.
No, we don't.
I'm so peace-loving that I go into battle and slaughter enemies wholesale in order to have peace. *smiles sweetly*
I would actually be perfectly happy if the RSE/Tal'Shiar types did have their own faction (and their own forum, so we could be rid of their rhetoric in our Romulan Republic forum), and I might even find some enjoyment in PvP in this game. But in practical terms, the number of such players is such a minority, and thus the RoI (Return on Investment) to PWE/Cryptic would likely be negilgible, that I doubt that will ever come about.
If the RSE could have been delivered from insane and power-hungry ... things ... like Sela and Taris, and delivered from the paranoid and sociopathic fascist secret police, to be restored back to the Honor of the Romulans of TOS, I would be all for an RSE instead of a New Romulan Republic, but, sadly, that ship sailed some time ago. *shakes fist at those writers and producers and corporate types who perverted the original ideal of the Romulans into something sick and twisted*
(funny thing is I see this similarly to the Romans, the TOS Romulans representing the Early part of the Roman empire, Augustin and Antonine period, with the current RSE being more inline with the Third Century Roman Empire where the Praetorian Guards chose the emperors, like the Tal Shiar does.)
While i wouldn't mind them even adding RSE/Tal Shiar specific stuff and a PVP to allow those with the itchy trigger finger to blow each other up, I agree with Protogoth. I just don't see them doing it for monetary reasons.
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
A. this Forum is called Romulan Gameplay, Not Romulan Republic "only" Gameplay. That means any player who plays a Romulan has every right to express their opinion on Romulan Gameplay, as to what it it is, what they think it should be, and how it could be improved, just as much as you or i do. Whether they think a RSE option should be allowed or not, or if they like the Republic or not, everyone still has that right.
B. As to your feelings of the Romulans Pre and Post Tos, just like my feelings and any other player it's just that, opinion not fact. The idea that the Romulans were "perverted" "into something sick and twisted" again isn't fact, but subject to personal opinion and point of view.
[/SIGPIC]
Unfortunately, in the current cannon, the RSE is not what is was. Not even close. They kept the paranoid and fascist part, and then changed pretty much everything else. Puppets of an alien race (for a xenophobic faction...), warmongers...
The Romulan Republic is not so far of what was the RSE. They are still sneaky, and I like it. And there are no talk of reunification or being adsorbed in the fed, which is also nice.
And I still wanna see D'Tan and his henchmen ejected out the nearest airlock, the Republic torn down and the rise of the Raptor Empire, the best bits of the Empire and no Tal Shiar/Sela :P Plus the overdue removal of the Romulan racial prejudice when we're finally accepting our Reman brothers and sisters.
I would like to see more factions for all Starfleet / Maquis/ Section 31 . KDF/Klingon Oversight Council/friction between the Houses Romulan Survivalists / Tal Shiar first off, I think it would add to the PVP element considerably as well as the RP element.
Do I think Cryptic would even consider such a thing? Nope. Too much work, too much programming too much headaches when players of one faction scream that the opposing faction needs to be nerfed still, if I were planning out a Star-Trek based game, these would be thinkg I would consider.
I HATE that STO portrays both the Tal Shair and Section 31 as 2-bit villains when they are capable of so much more. Neither S31 or the TS hate their faction in fact, they would do anything to protect them. It just so happens that their opinion of what an idealistic endgame for the factions survival is tends to diverge from the status quo. For Starfleet, the baseline principle is inclusion through peace, knowledge through exploration. For S31 its Protect the Federation and her allies at any cost. Would Starfleet have the armaments and weaponry it does to defend itself from the likes of the Borg, the Voth, etc. without Section 31 leading research scientists by the hand? Highly doubtful. What does an exploration fleet need with dreadnaught starships anyway?
Well, as weve all found out, the universe is a very big and very dangerous place.
I have always seen the Romulans akin to ancient Romans (lets face it, that IS what they were based upon originally); honorable, political, powerful and willing to do anything to anyone in order to protect their best interests, even at the risk of causing strife within their own empire. This is where the Tal Shiar come in the Romulan equivalent to the Roman schola notariorum (literally translated to School Secretaries - these were similar to the agentes, or Secret Service)
(read more at: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/291793?uid=3737536&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21104188352723)
So, in essence, the Tal Shiar, much like Section 31, is a shadow intelligence organization or it was before Sela took complete control. Perhaps there is even another, more secretive organization within the Romulan Empire that picks up where the Tal Shiar left off that could be fun real fun.
Maybe Vaslaehval (a combinaiton of laehval (shadow) and vastam (wing) - eluding to a protective shadow that covers all... hmm...)
*IF* I were Tal Shiar I assure you, such a challenge would be difficult to accept from a dead woman. But seeing as that isnt the case, perhaps I can buy you a drink instead?
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Oh, wait. You're serious aren't you.
Section 31 aren't Gestapo. They don't disappear their own citizens and stick "political officers" aboard Starfleet ships. And they most certainly don't blow up their own capital planet or use the Federation's civilian population for alien feedstock.
If by "other side" you mean the side that oppressed the Romulan people for centuries and destroyed the Empire?
I'm sure there are.
No.
You mean like for the thalaron blast? You need the 3-piece console set from the 3-pack.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Semantics... LOL
The Tal Shiar are not a singular, amorphous monster any more than S31, and certainly not less. Granted, they can be a bit.. heavy handed at times, but with the death of Hakeev and the disappearance of Sela things may take a different direction.
I'm still not 100% certain that the Tal Shiar intended to cause the Hobus incident to the extent of destroying Romulus... I think that story's still unfolding... they, Sela and her like, were led astray by the Iconians through promises of power and a future for the Romulan people as a whole. This is no different than how the Xindi were led by the Guardians they worshipped, leading to a horrific and unprovoked attack on Earth as well as the intent to completely destroy the planet.
The Xindi learned to alter their course. Many Romulans in the Tal Shiar can do the same.
Section 31 will go to extreme lengths to ensure the wellbeing of the Federation, including placing agents on politically and strategically important locations, often serving from the shadows in plain sight like sleeper agents. If given the order do you actually believe these agents wouldnt attack their designated targets, allied or not? Sure, they wouldnt launch an attack on Earth . But can you honestly say they wouldnt STAGE one? Especially if they felt the powers that be arent heeding their warnings or moving in a direction which opposes S31s goals? I think they would and in this they are no different than the Tal Shiar. Imagine if that staging went awry and actually placed Earth in harms way would they be the monster then if not before?
The Tal Shair have always been a bit totalitarian in their methods but their overall goal is identical: the protection of the people.
Like modern American politicians they all believe they are protecting America but its their definition of the people and how to serve them that causes the trouble.
The last time we know for certain that the Tal Shiar worked for the Romulan Empire was well before the Dominion War.
They were subverted first by the Dominion ("The Die is Cast") and then by the Federation ("Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"), then by the Ioconicans. That is around forty some odd years they've been subverted and working AGAINST the best interests of the Romulan Empire.
Further, any remaining Tal Shiar are completely and utterly brainwashed by Elachi technology to be loyal to Hakeev and not question the direction they were going. There is no presented evidence to indicate that they can be reformed. There is also strong evidence that most Romulans HATED the Tal Shiar and would rather have seen them gone, starting from their first appearance in Star Trek, "Face of the Enemy", where Commander Toreth, who was portrayed as nothing if not average Romulan commander, seemed to want nothing more than to put Troi in an airlock without a space suit and open it.
The Tal Shiar are effectively the Romulan Stazi, they were never show to have any redeeming qualities, ever. Romulans, even in TNG, were often shown to have some nobility or redeemable qualities... except for members of the Tal Shiar; who's leader was willing to sell out the Empire just to extend his life and assure his own political positioning ("Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"), who arranged for idealistic old men to be disappeared ("Face of the Enemy") and subverted Romulan military operations for their own ends ("Message In a Bottle"). There's not a single appearance by the Tal Shiar in which they are shown as actually beneficial to the Romulan Star Empire. The only time they even play a neutral roll is in "In a Pale Moonlight", where they FAIL to detect Federation subterfuge in manufacturing evidence to draw the Star Empire into the Dominion War.
The Tal Shiar are not competent, nor have they ever been shown to be beneficial to the Romulan Star Empire, to say anything of the Romulan people. Did STO exaggerate their portrayal? Maybe a little, but not by so much as most seem to think.
I see what youre saying but can you tell us how you really feel? LOL
I like the way you think. Very analytical and true to canon. But what if not all members of the Tal Shiar were brainwashed or share the same sentiment as their superior officers? As remote a possibility as it is, it I still a possibility none the less.
As far as serving against the Empire, I never said they acted in the best interests of the Empire (at least I dont think I did) but that they believe they are doing so. The Tal Shiar have always been a totalitarian tool of a corrupt government - by the Senate, the Empire, the Elachi and the Iconians. No one is disputing this fact, but they are still just tools. Many opposed the Iraqi wars, soldiers included, but they still went over and the war was still fought because they were ordered to by men sitting safely behind desks thousands of miles away acting in what they believed was the greater good, whatever that may have been. The Tal Shiar are no different in my opinion; a group of soldiers led to corruption through political and medical augmentation.
We still hear of those who have defected from the Tal Shiar. Is it so hard to believe that there are more within the organization who wish to separate themselves? Alternatively, is it so hard ot believe that there are those who still agree with the Tal Shiars tactics but feel the organization has gone astray from its original purpose? Who knows?
I think the Tal Shiar are potential of much evolution and character development, both in the STO storyarc and gameplay. The more I think on it, however, the more likely it is that a separate faction with the Empire would attempt to fill the sudden gap left by the death of Hakeev and the disappearance of the Empress. Perhaps this is where the Vaslaehval comes into play
The Tal Shiar on the other hand used to be legit. And they were pretty much the ones behind the strings of the military and some people of the government.
I think there are a lot of difference between an organization that try to not be there, and another one that is the iron fist of an empire. S31 is closer to terrorists, with splinter cells and ruthless actions. Tal Shiar used to be some kind of fascist secret police.
Tal Shiar are badly done in STO. They were made in 2d villains that would sacrifice everything on the pretense to saving everyone. Classical dumb evil.
It would have been interesting if we had the RSE playable like it was in TNG, without Romulus being destroyed. To see the conflict between military and tal shiar, the senate, the praetor and all that. Pretty much akin to the Roman Empire where strife between houses, the senate, the emperor and the military/general were common, and ultimately one of the numerous reason for their end.
But it's not possible the way it is. You can cry forever about that, or go on and adapt. Romulan survived the exile from their homeworld, then another exile from a new homeworld, they'll survive a third exile. And they'll adapt again.
This is my legacy of Romulus. It will not have died in vain.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
They kinda' dropped the ball on things like these influencing the PvP element with the mixed queues. So this wouldn't change anything, not a single thing. You can have a faerie faction and it'll still do nothing for PvP.
As for RP, they already opened enough RP opportunities by allowing people to wear Tal'Shair or Section 31 uniforms as well as use the I.R.W. prefix on Romulan ships.
You're right about that, there's no way Cryptic is even considering this. In order for them to implement such factions as you suggest, they'd need to completely rework their game because there's no way those proposed factions could ever have a shared gameplay with the exisitng factions.
Not to mention that you're talking about smaller splinter groups here that don't even deserve to have their own faction compared to the likes of the Cardassians, Dominion, Ferengi, Vaadawur (SC?), etc.
LOL
Section 31 is a terrorist organization and the Tal'Shiar is the Romulan equivalent of the Gestapo. The only content I want with them involved is me cutting their heads with melee weapons and using them as battle trophies on my ship.
Tal'Shiar was an intelligence organization, before they started suffering from delusions of grandeour and fooling themselves that they'll ever have enough power to completely dictate the RSE's policies at their whim. We all know how that one ended.
Section 31 is not an intelligence organization. There's Starfleet Intelligence for that. They're a bunch of pathetic misfits with delusions of grandeour even bigger that the Tal'Shiar's, given how insignificant they are.
Though, I'm sure the Romulan Republic has some sort of an intellignece agency that is much more akin to Klingon Intelligence that the Tal'Shiar itself.
I agree entirely except for one point:
One and only one member of the Tal'Shiar has acted in such a way as to suggest that she is not totally brainwashed and that she might be able to be reformed. Of course, I refer to Riov (Commander) Janek. I believe some new content could be added in which the New Romulan Republic player meets her again and convinces her to defect to the Republic. Her dissatisfaction with the Tal'Shiar is evident in "Mine Enemy." The new mission could be named "Mine Ally." *arches a brow*
Imperial Romulan Secret Police? Is that what you're trying to say? Is that what you're advocating, then, a new civilian agency operating under a hypothetical (more like imaginary) government of a polity which, aside from a handful of idealistic reactionary romantics, no longer exists? Any remaining subjects of the Romulan Star Empire no longer have an Emperor or Empress, a Praetor, Proconsul, or First Consul. They have the Tal'Shiar, and the Tal'Shiar cares about them only as resources to be exploited for their own personal benefit. The Tal'Shiar -- mind you, this name (which is to say, this proper noun) is both singular and plural, and the plural has a double meaning. The singular use is to refer to the organization itself. The plural use is to refer to those persons who are part of the Tal'Shiar organization, and there are two classes of these: Those Who Command, and those who are commanded. The ambiguity in the meaning is part of the organization itself, and adds to its mysterious character. The class structure, although to some extent deeply ingrained in Romulan culture, and certainly impossible to eradicate entirely in any culture, need not be so Master-slave oriented. Other sorts of class relations exist, in which exploitation of one by another is viewed by both classes as reprehensible. Romulan culture was not always imperial. The Romulan Confederation (of city-states on both ch'Rihan and ch'Havran) predated the Romulan Star Empire, and the Romulan Tribal Confederation predated the Romulan Confederation. Prior to the Romulan Tribal Confederation was a brief monarchy, or rather Queendom of the Two Worlds. And before that, what form of rather limited central government existed for the people of ch'Rihan and ch'Havran looks very much like a blending of Tribal Confederation and ... Republic. Perhaps it would be best to refer to it as "a Confederation of Sovereign Tribal Republics," although it probably had no contemporary name other than "Grand Council" and "High Council."
Love of freedom is what motivated the dissenters to leave Vulcan in search of a home where they would remain true to the Old Ways instead of the radical and new establishment orthodoxy.
Ahr'lleiset na mnhei'sahe hachaen lamne'elh s'Rihan. The central mnhei'sahe (ruling passion) of the collective Romulan psyche is freedom.
There is no place for the Tal'Shiar in Romulan society.
*Warning soft canon novel content inbound*
Damned well said, I salute you! Unfortunately both of my Romulans feel that the old empire is lost beyond redemption. Perhaps on one glorious day we can see our people proudly rise up as members of the Raptor Empire and be done with both the infighting and corruption of the past, and this terrible joke Republic of the present.