Supposedly ground costumes have been a tough sell for the C-Store in the past. I know I have access to costumes on my other faction alts that are nice... and we DO see members of all factions everywhere.
We also saw Dax and Worf wearing Klingon gear more than once while Federation citizens. And we're also at a point where you see the odd Gorn in a tuxedo since they opened up off duty to Klingons.
So with the war over, here's my thought:
I think it would be nice to have access to all faction costume options, possibly through some sort of reputation or diplomacy perk, even as a dropdown costume.
But with this some things would remain exclusive, faction-locked:
- Combadges, baldrics, and rank insignia.
- MACO/Honor Guard costumes (and the Romulans need their own)
- Fleet uniforms (the Bortas and Odyssey)
I think, honestly that everything else could be opened up. Including Nausicaan pieces, Orion pieces, etc. Just make them individual pieces and priced according to demand and thematically appropriate as an unlock.
The work involved would likely fix Marauding BOffs and allow Diplo BOffs to wear a proper uniform. And I'm not suggesting anyone get them "out of the box" but I am suggesting it could be handled like racial mounts in WoW where the appropriate species gets it out of the box and anyone else can get it (although not all are equally easy to get).
By making baldrics/badges/Romulan shoulders remain faction locked (based on CAPTAIN faction), you can not only keep enough brand identity intact but you could open special BOffs to dress on the order of a Garak or Neelix who wear their own style of uniform but could be marked with baldric/shoulder badge, combadge, or Romulan rank insignia to show who they work for.
Feds wearing KDF outfits would just be another sore spot for KDF players, IMO. There is already enough of the "Feds get everything they want" comments on the forum.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I just want my Federation Orion from Diplomatic Tier 4 to wear something other than plain pants or loin cloths.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Well, KDF players would like to be able to change the appearance of their T4 Marauding BOFFs without having to do some sort of trick, but like that is ever going to happen.
Well, KDF players would like to be able to change the appearance of their T4 Marauding BOFFs without having to do some sort of trick, but like that is ever going to happen.
Well... One thing to keep in mind there is that they apparently misunderstood the bug reports on the issue and the nature of the bug until some players who had the miner outfit discovered a workaround, which at least one dev realized meant they had misunderstood the bug reports.
Now that someone in design knows what the bug is, I think it will eventually get fixed but only at a point when they already have the hood popped on that part of the game for other work.
Well... One thing to keep in mind there is that they apparently misunderstood the bug reports on the issue and the nature of the bug until some players who had the miner outfit discovered a workaround, which at least one dev realized meant they had misunderstood the bug reports.
This "bug" has been around how long? And none of them play KDF? And none of them have the ability to look at the code?
It is difficult to believe anything they say about the KDF faction, bugs relating to the faction, plans for the KDF faction, and so on.
Their credibility regarding bug fixes is not exactly very good for a number of KDF players.
It would be more believable if they said it was CBS telling them that they couldn't allow BOFFs in Starfleet uniforms on a Klingon ship. THAT would make actual sense, even if I totally made that up.
i'd` certainly like for my Diplomacy BOFF to have access to all the faction parts, Because Orions should be able to join Starfleet too In my opinion. ( so far I have them wearing the Dyson outfit, since thats cross faction and includes a nice jacket plus footwear I.E. NOT SANDALS, NO SPIKES!)
I get the feeling however there would be many reasons they won't give us, although Crytic themselve have an unrestricted list of options, There so much clipping that would happen they won't give us the same option.
I think i remember a dev saying in his own words they prefer to restrict us rather than risk the number of compliants they would receive from clipping problems
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
I just want to put my Orion Boff in the Honour Guard outfit.
Not even possible, as the costumes are directly tied to two entirely seperate sets of accolades, the either one of which is not available to the other faction.
I can't see us wearing other faction's uniforms, unless we are in a mission that dressing up would add to the immersion. Outside of that, only diplomatic BOFFs should have access to uniforms of their respective factions.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing factional civilian outfits being available for all sides.
I can't see us wearing other faction's uniforms, unless we are in a mission that dressing up would add to the immersion. Outside of that, only diplomatic BOFFs should have access to uniforms of their respective factions.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing factional civilian outfits being available for all sides.
Then the Feds are in for a treat.
Because there are none to be found within the KDF.
To give you an idea on how terrible the uniform options are for the KDF, I just need to post this. Look under "Appearance" then "Costume Packs."
The Feds have stolen Carrier play (Atrox), Battlecruiser play (Avenger), Universal BOFF slots, Consoles (Plasmonic Leech, etc), now they even want Uniforms? WTF?
Because there are none to be found within the KDF.
To give you an idea on how terrible the uniform options are for the KDF, I just need to post this. Look under "Appearance" then "Costume Packs."
The Feds have stolen Carrier play (Atrox), Battlecruiser play (Avenger), Universal BOFF slots, Consoles (Plasmonic Leech, etc), now they even want Uniforms? WTF?
Everyone look and see what I said in post #2, and then read this post.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I can't see us wearing other faction's uniforms, unless we are in a mission that dressing up would add to the immersion. Outside of that, only diplomatic BOFFs should have access to uniforms of their respective factions.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing factional civilian outfits being available for all sides.
The problem with this being, Klingons don't have uniforms. They mainly just have CLOTHES. Some active, some ceremonial. But they're clothes. Nor are most of the Romulan outfits uniforms. The Romulans have a handful of clothing options designated as uniforms but they're mostly a casual Friday faction..
This is a very very bad idea that only serves to general deteriment of the game, as it aims to further kill the diversity of the factions and just mold everything into being the same for everyone.
Because there are none to be found within the KDF.
To give you an idea on how terrible the uniform options are for the KDF, I just need to post this. Look under "Appearance" then "Costume Packs."
The Feds have stolen Carrier play (Atrox), Battlecruiser play (Avenger), Universal BOFF slots, Consoles (Plasmonic Leech, etc), now they even want Uniforms? WTF?
I prefer factionless sandbox options in terms of powers/builds/costuming.
For the record, the costume I'm frustrated I can't mix with Fed options now is the Klingon Academy option.
But I'd also like my Diplomacy BOff in Fed garb so I could have a matching away team and my KDF Marauding BO in Klingon gear... and I'd like most of the non-Odyssey Fed options on my Klingon. The majority of the Fed costumes are used by civilians throughout the game.
I really wish this game didn't have factions or encourage people to identify as Red, Blue, Green, or Purple. You should just have a broad array of costumes and BOs and starfleet service, KDF service, etc. should just be like more involved reputations with mission chains.
Let people decide what they are rather than making empires and governments into PvP clubs.
This is a very very bad idea that only serves to general deteriment of the game, as it aims to further kill the diversity of the factions and just mold everything into being the same for everyone.
Supposedly ground costumes have been a tough sell for the C-Store in the past.
That's because people get upsold on Zen prices in relation to custumes. IE: you essentially have to buy 1,100zen just to buy a 500zen costume.
People tend not to like doing that.
Also some articles of clothing seem to cost more than ships. On balance people will alwyas buy a new ship before they'll buy a new costume unless they really, really really want that costume.
I honestly thing some, if not most, costumes should just be available for dilithium, like ships.
Because people like to identify themselves within cliques. Also because the IP is divided between Factions: Federation, KDF, Romulan, Cardassian, Borg, etc.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Outside of that, only diplomatic BOFFs should have access to uniforms of their respective factions.
What actually exists is, "Diplomacy BOFFs have KDF uniform options, and Marauder BOFFs have nothing (not even the ability to change face/body shape) unless you have access to the one uniform option that they haven't excluded (yet)."
Well, back in the day, World of WarC***t (which is a banned word) had Alliance (YAY! Good guys) and Horde (BOOOO!).
(And those of us in the Horde felt like we got screwed over, too, being the ugly monster faction... but I digress)...
And since WoW was the thing for everyone to copy, they brought the faction stuff over here... except that KDF was even less well conceived than WoW's ugly Horde, being a "monster play" PvP faction that never has gotten close to similar treatment as Starfleet.
Yet we've played under this for a while now, and unless they bust up the factions & let me use Starfleet stuff on my KDF characters as well as allow KDF stuff on Starfleet, it's the system we have because the big successful MMO had factions.
I think some of us wouldn't mind if they broke the faction system for good, but I would guess that CBS is a factor in that decision because Starfleet = good guys, and KDF stuff is red, and red = bad guy.
I prefer factionless sandbox options in terms of powers/builds/costuming.
For the record, the costume I'm frustrated I can't mix with Fed options now is the Klingon Academy option.
But I'd also like my Diplomacy BOff in Fed garb so I could have a matching away team and my KDF Marauding BO in Klingon gear... and I'd like most of the non-Odyssey Fed options on my Klingon. The majority of the Fed costumes are used by civilians throughout the game.
I really wish this game didn't have factions or encourage people to identify as Red, Blue, Green, or Purple. You should just have a broad array of costumes and BOs and starfleet service, KDF service, etc. should just be like more involved reputations with mission chains.
Let people decide what they are rather than making empires and governments into PvP clubs.
The factions are in, whether you like it or not. That's the way Cryptic did with it for STO's release. There needs to be defining characteristics, different styles between the Klingon Empire and Federation, because let's be frank: They ARE different in canon, they behaved, fought, lived differently in canon.
At least Fed Diplomacy BOFFs can change uniforms. The KDF equivalents, the Marauder BOFFs, cannot change uniforms at all. When reaching T4 Marauder, I selected for my Klingon Captain a Human for the max tier reward. Cool. Throw in a KDF uniform and we'll be good.
But no. The only option you can keep is the simple shirt. You can't change anything else except for the whole character go to some horrible, generic, bald setting.
Now, I hop onto my Fed Vulcan Captain, when she hits T4 Diplomacy, I select an Orion Female as the Diplomacy BOFF reward. Well look what we got here! I can choose the Orion uniform options and all that! That must be real nice to even have some sort of working option!
This has been broken since the system was implemented. It's half way through May 2014 and this issue STILL exists, ignored by Cryptic because... well... it's the KDF.
They could definitely go through the uniforms and pull out pieces that could fit into a generic clothing category. I certainly don't want to see any Starfleet officers running around in Klingon armor, but take a look at some of the NPCs on DS9 -- a few are using clothing options from both factions. Unless you recognize the pieces from the outfits, they don't really stick out as being in "enemy" clothing, or in a uniform at all, since it's being used as civilian clothing.
Because there are none to be found within the KDF.
To give you an idea on how terrible the uniform options are for the KDF, I just need to post this. Look under "Appearance" then "Costume Packs."
The Feds have stolen Carrier play (Atrox), Battlecruiser play (Avenger), Universal BOFF slots, Consoles (Plasmonic Leech, etc), now they even want Uniforms? WTF?
No need to tell me, I been playing KDF since STO Beta. So I am fully aware of the KDF costume limitations. At least it's better with the Fleet and Reputation outfits than it was for a long time.
Oh and technically they got raiders now with the Breen Raider. :rolleyes:
The problem with this being, Klingons don't have uniforms. They mainly just have CLOTHES. Some active, some ceremonial. But they're clothes. Nor are most of the Romulan outfits uniforms. The Romulans have a handful of clothing options designated as uniforms but they're mostly a casual Friday faction..
Actually to Klingons they are uniforms.
But the Devs shouldnt have any excuses for not adding the outfits we saw on screen.
What actually exists is, "Diplomacy BOFFs have KDF uniform options, and Marauder BOFFs have nothing (not even the ability to change face/body shape) unless you have access to the one uniform option that they haven't excluded (yet)."
Well, back in the day, World of WarC***t (which is a banned word) had Alliance (YAY! Good guys) and Horde (BOOOO!).
(And those of us in the Horde felt like we got screwed over, too, being the ugly monster faction... but I digress)...
And since WoW was the thing for everyone to copy, they brought the faction stuff over here... except that KDF was even less well conceived than WoW's ugly Horde, being a "monster play" PvP faction that never has gotten close to similar treatment as Starfleet.
Yet we've played under this for a while now, and unless they bust up the factions & let me use Starfleet stuff on my KDF characters as well as allow KDF stuff on Starfleet, it's the system we have because the big successful MMO had factions.
I think some of us wouldn't mind if they broke the faction system for good, but I would guess that CBS is a factor in that decision because Starfleet = good guys, and KDF stuff is red, and red = bad guy.
I am aware of that. I was pretty experienced in that.
But a big part of the problem in that is that is that even the last outgoing WoW director cited factions as the biggest MISTAKE that game made.
People complain about the thematic element here of people playing Starfleet captains in lockbox ships. But those lockboxes have done considerable good for the game and monetized fringe interests in things like flying a Dominion ship. Whereas factions have been, in large measure I think, nothing but a source of grief to the development process and a hindrance to the game's ability to monetize itself.
I'm not opposed to Klingons being mechanically unique. I think they need to be MORE mechanically unique. I'm not opposed to Klingons flying Klingon ships. I'm just not persuaded by the value of red vs. blue at all.
If Klingons, Romulans, and Federation were treated more like classes than factions, you would see MORE uniqueness. Captain powers and kit powers that more dramatically represent species.
And again, I'm not suggesting FREE access to other outfits. I'm suggesting very expensive access. Heck, it could be a lockbox that awards a costume slot using other faction visuals and maybe a ground set themed off that other faction.
Kinda like cross-faction consoles now crossed with lockbox ships.
I'd also suggest allowing people in cross faction ships to choose which faction to display. So when you see a Jem'Hadar attack ship? It could display either faction and that captain on the ground could display either faction. Or maybe you just remove faction from the UI altogether now that everyone is allied.
I'll concede I'm playing with ideas that are difficult in the current game's construction and ideas that would be easier to hash out in a STO 2. When most people talk about a STO 2, they're talking about things that could be done here.
No need to tell me, I been playing KDF since STO Beta. So I am fully aware of the KDF costume limitations. At least it's better with the Fleet and Reputation outfits than it was for a long time.
Oh and technically they got raiders now with the Breen Raider. :rolleyes:
Actually to Klingons they are uniforms.
But the Devs shouldnt have any excuses for not adding the outfits we saw on screen.
I think the excuse (and it's a valid one) is relative demand.
I think part of why the big ship mechanics are present in Feds and Roms is because you need more people using it to justify bugfixes and improvements.
If everyone could get a Klingon costume slot, Klingon costumes would probably get considerably more love.
Right now, for 150-200 Lobi, someone can dress as a Jem'Hadar soldier or Hirogen officer. So in the grand scheme of things, breaking down the existing costume barriers similarly is not as huge of a deal as it might seem.
How would it be any different if they added Federation costumes as a dropdown option for Klingons and Romulans for 200 Lobi? Or Klingon costumes for Fed and Rom for 200 Lobi? Or Rom costumes for Klingons and Fed?
If 200 Lobi is a magic number that allows anyone of an established faction to dress like a Hirogen, a Jem'Hadar, a Voth, or a 29th century crew, why not offer other faction costumes for that cost or an equivalent one?
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Well... One thing to keep in mind there is that they apparently misunderstood the bug reports on the issue and the nature of the bug until some players who had the miner outfit discovered a workaround, which at least one dev realized meant they had misunderstood the bug reports.
Now that someone in design knows what the bug is, I think it will eventually get fixed but only at a point when they already have the hood popped on that part of the game for other work.
This "bug" has been around how long? And none of them play KDF? And none of them have the ability to look at the code?
It is difficult to believe anything they say about the KDF faction, bugs relating to the faction, plans for the KDF faction, and so on.
Their credibility regarding bug fixes is not exactly very good for a number of KDF players.
It would be more believable if they said it was CBS telling them that they couldn't allow BOFFs in Starfleet uniforms on a Klingon ship. THAT would make actual sense, even if I totally made that up.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I get the feeling however there would be many reasons they won't give us, although Crytic themselve have an unrestricted list of options, There so much clipping that would happen they won't give us the same option.
I think i remember a dev saying in his own words they prefer to restrict us rather than risk the number of compliants they would receive from clipping problems
Not even possible, as the costumes are directly tied to two entirely seperate sets of accolades, the either one of which is not available to the other faction.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing factional civilian outfits being available for all sides.
Then the Feds are in for a treat.
Because there are none to be found within the KDF.
To give you an idea on how terrible the uniform options are for the KDF, I just need to post this. Look under "Appearance" then "Costume Packs."
The Feds have stolen Carrier play (Atrox), Battlecruiser play (Avenger), Universal BOFF slots, Consoles (Plasmonic Leech, etc), now they even want Uniforms? WTF?
The problem with this being, Klingons don't have uniforms. They mainly just have CLOTHES. Some active, some ceremonial. But they're clothes. Nor are most of the Romulan outfits uniforms. The Romulans have a handful of clothing options designated as uniforms but they're mostly a casual Friday faction..
Burn it with fire, say I! :mad:
I prefer factionless sandbox options in terms of powers/builds/costuming.
For the record, the costume I'm frustrated I can't mix with Fed options now is the Klingon Academy option.
But I'd also like my Diplomacy BOff in Fed garb so I could have a matching away team and my KDF Marauding BO in Klingon gear... and I'd like most of the non-Odyssey Fed options on my Klingon. The majority of the Fed costumes are used by civilians throughout the game.
I really wish this game didn't have factions or encourage people to identify as Red, Blue, Green, or Purple. You should just have a broad array of costumes and BOs and starfleet service, KDF service, etc. should just be like more involved reputations with mission chains.
Let people decide what they are rather than making empires and governments into PvP clubs.
Explain why factions should exist, please.
That's because people get upsold on Zen prices in relation to custumes. IE: you essentially have to buy 1,100zen just to buy a 500zen costume.
People tend not to like doing that.
Also some articles of clothing seem to cost more than ships. On balance people will alwyas buy a new ship before they'll buy a new costume unless they really, really really want that costume.
I honestly thing some, if not most, costumes should just be available for dilithium, like ships.
If you really can't figure out that one by yourself - I'm not about to, because I feel it would be extremely useless trying to.
What actually exists is, "Diplomacy BOFFs have KDF uniform options, and Marauder BOFFs have nothing (not even the ability to change face/body shape) unless you have access to the one uniform option that they haven't excluded (yet)."
Well, back in the day, World of WarC***t (which is a banned word) had Alliance (YAY! Good guys) and Horde (BOOOO!).
(And those of us in the Horde felt like we got screwed over, too, being the ugly monster faction... but I digress)...
And since WoW was the thing for everyone to copy, they brought the faction stuff over here... except that KDF was even less well conceived than WoW's ugly Horde, being a "monster play" PvP faction that never has gotten close to similar treatment as Starfleet.
Yet we've played under this for a while now, and unless they bust up the factions & let me use Starfleet stuff on my KDF characters as well as allow KDF stuff on Starfleet, it's the system we have because the big successful MMO had factions.
I think some of us wouldn't mind if they broke the faction system for good, but I would guess that CBS is a factor in that decision because Starfleet = good guys, and KDF stuff is red, and red = bad guy.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Because it's absolutely true, esp. considering the lopsided, 1 direction development of this game over the years.
The factions are in, whether you like it or not. That's the way Cryptic did with it for STO's release. There needs to be defining characteristics, different styles between the Klingon Empire and Federation, because let's be frank: They ARE different in canon, they behaved, fought, lived differently in canon.
At least Fed Diplomacy BOFFs can change uniforms. The KDF equivalents, the Marauder BOFFs, cannot change uniforms at all. When reaching T4 Marauder, I selected for my Klingon Captain a Human for the max tier reward. Cool. Throw in a KDF uniform and we'll be good.
But no. The only option you can keep is the simple shirt. You can't change anything else except for the whole character go to some horrible, generic, bald setting.
Now, I hop onto my Fed Vulcan Captain, when she hits T4 Diplomacy, I select an Orion Female as the Diplomacy BOFF reward. Well look what we got here! I can choose the Orion uniform options and all that! That must be real nice to even have some sort of working option!
This has been broken since the system was implemented. It's half way through May 2014 and this issue STILL exists, ignored by Cryptic because... well... it's the KDF.
might as well ask for ship sharing to.....................
system Lord Baal is dead
Also, it this a serious question?
No need to tell me, I been playing KDF since STO Beta. So I am fully aware of the KDF costume limitations. At least it's better with the Fleet and Reputation outfits than it was for a long time.
Oh and technically they got raiders now with the Breen Raider. :rolleyes:
Actually to Klingons they are uniforms.
But the Devs shouldnt have any excuses for not adding the outfits we saw on screen.
Games are defined as much by what you *can't* do as what you can. Factions and classes are great ways to convey decision weight.
If anything there is too much choice in STO.
I am aware of that. I was pretty experienced in that.
But a big part of the problem in that is that is that even the last outgoing WoW director cited factions as the biggest MISTAKE that game made.
People complain about the thematic element here of people playing Starfleet captains in lockbox ships. But those lockboxes have done considerable good for the game and monetized fringe interests in things like flying a Dominion ship. Whereas factions have been, in large measure I think, nothing but a source of grief to the development process and a hindrance to the game's ability to monetize itself.
I'm not opposed to Klingons being mechanically unique. I think they need to be MORE mechanically unique. I'm not opposed to Klingons flying Klingon ships. I'm just not persuaded by the value of red vs. blue at all.
If Klingons, Romulans, and Federation were treated more like classes than factions, you would see MORE uniqueness. Captain powers and kit powers that more dramatically represent species.
And again, I'm not suggesting FREE access to other outfits. I'm suggesting very expensive access. Heck, it could be a lockbox that awards a costume slot using other faction visuals and maybe a ground set themed off that other faction.
Kinda like cross-faction consoles now crossed with lockbox ships.
I'd also suggest allowing people in cross faction ships to choose which faction to display. So when you see a Jem'Hadar attack ship? It could display either faction and that captain on the ground could display either faction. Or maybe you just remove faction from the UI altogether now that everyone is allied.
I'll concede I'm playing with ideas that are difficult in the current game's construction and ideas that would be easier to hash out in a STO 2. When most people talk about a STO 2, they're talking about things that could be done here.
I think the excuse (and it's a valid one) is relative demand.
I think part of why the big ship mechanics are present in Feds and Roms is because you need more people using it to justify bugfixes and improvements.
If everyone could get a Klingon costume slot, Klingon costumes would probably get considerably more love.
Right now, for 150-200 Lobi, someone can dress as a Jem'Hadar soldier or Hirogen officer. So in the grand scheme of things, breaking down the existing costume barriers similarly is not as huge of a deal as it might seem.
How would it be any different if they added Federation costumes as a dropdown option for Klingons and Romulans for 200 Lobi? Or Klingon costumes for Fed and Rom for 200 Lobi? Or Rom costumes for Klingons and Fed?
If 200 Lobi is a magic number that allows anyone of an established faction to dress like a Hirogen, a Jem'Hadar, a Voth, or a 29th century crew, why not offer other faction costumes for that cost or an equivalent one?