I think one way to solve the carrier envy is not by giving Fed pets, but by making the detachable pets (eg promitheus) easier to use.
As of now, these pets have the benefit of persistent prescence, i.e if you die, the pets still remain to fight. Hangar pets die when carrier pets died.
That being said, they cannot be "revived" (except through reattachment) or commanded.
What can be done:
1) Allow pets to be commanded.
2) Allow them to be revived, either automatically (which may make it more OP) or by pressing button, or by using ship ability.
Detachable pets have one weakness com pare to hangars, in that it is tied to the ship, have fixed amanments, and cannot be changed, which actually provides the balance needed.
EDIT: Also work with whatever detachable pet ship KDF (Bortas) or Rom have (Hakkona)
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
So, we're not going to be hearing anymore about KDF five tac console raptors? :P
So, we're not going to be hearing anymore about KDF five tac console raptors? :P
Of course we do. In fact I would even dare to say that our satisfaction with our ship is what cause Cryptic to focus on Fed ship, because they will cry out and fork money out.
You always want your customer to be never satisfy and want more.
Of course we do. In fact I would even dare to say that our satisfaction with our ship is what cause Cryptic to focus on Fed ship, because they will cry out and fork money out.
You always want your customer to be never satisfy and want more.
Well, no, you see, they're victims, so it's okay when they're annoying.
Both sides do the same things. It's annoying no matter who does it. Death to factions in all games.
I would support this just as a matter of practicality for everyone, simply because the current AI system for separated pets is really glitchy and unreliable.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
Please stop using the word "they." They are Star Trek fans, probably just like you. They are people who have spent a ton of money over the last 4 years living out their Trek fantasies, probably just like you. They are people who just want their hobby to make them as happy as possible, probably just like you. They are no different then you are; except maybe they did not post the same thing twice in a thread like you did.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
you guys seem to not be reading all the OP as put he is asking for pet commands on separated vessels. This would also include the KDF Bortas'Qu with the Ho'Sus BoP pet
personally i would love it if i could tell my suacer to not kamakazi into a warp core breach or tell it to defend a team mate
Please stop using the word "they." They are Star Trek fans, probably just like you. They are people who have spent a ton of money over the last 4 years living out their Trek fantasies, probably just like you. They are people who just want their hobby to make them as happy as possible, probably just like you. They are no different then you are; except maybe they did not post the same thing twice in a thread like you did.
There is definitely a "they" at work.
And I agree with them. Feds don't need cloaks. Feds don't need carriers. If they got them, most wouldn't use them as much as they think they would, and of those who did, most wouldn't know how to use them right and would get slaughtered. Klingons should get more ships, then Romulans, then Feds.
Doesn't matter. It's still annoying. He's literally just complaining because he saw the words "Fed Carrier" in the thread title, even though this is not a call for a new Fed ship and is something that would benefit both factions. There will be at least five-ten more posts exactly like his in this thread if it goes on for any decent page length.
Remove factions from this game and all other games entirely. It'd be less annoying than the forum warriors. Death to factions.
you guys seem to not be reading all the OP as put he is asking for pet commands on separated vessels. This would also include the KDF Bortas'Qu with the Ho'Sus BoP pet
Yes, we noticed that he edited the post to add the Klingons after realizing his "solution to Fed carrier envy" was to make Fed pets superior to Klingon pets. :P
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
Well, the Federation now has four types of ships with Hangars. The Vesta (Science Vessel/Light Carrier), Armitage (Escort/Light Carrier), Caitian Carrier (Full Carrier), and the Dreadnought Cruiser (Dreadnought).
And I agree with them. Feds don't need cloaks. Feds don't need carriers. If they got them, most wouldn't use them as much as they think they would, and of those who did, most wouldn't know how to use them right and would get slaughtered. Klingons should get more ships, then Romulans, then Feds.
It does not matter how many would use them. The game is about wish fulfilment. You think I use every ship I have bought over the last 4 years? Nope! Not even close. Pre FTP I bought them to help the company financially. Post FTP I buy them because I have nothing else to do with the Zen.
And no one is saying the KDF and Roms should not get more ships. But not selling things to the Feds is not how the KDF and Roms will get more things. Cryptic's goal is to make money not cut off one of its primary sources of income.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It does not matter how many would use them. The game is about wish fulfilment. You think I use every ship I have bought over the last 4 years? Nope! Not even close. Pre FTP I bought them to help the company financially. Post FTP I buy them because I have nothing else to do with the Zen.
I'm sure it would be a nice chunk of change, if making actual content stopped paying the bills, but it's unnecessary and detrimental to Starfleet's identity as a peacekeeping organization that puts preserving the peace above the ability to project power and kill from a distance (part of that "Star Trek fan" thing you mentioned).
Starfleet doesn't need a giant battleship that shoots Defiants at things. Better AI for pets helps everyone.
Yes, we noticed that he edited the post to add the Klingons after realizing his "solution to Fed carrier envy" was to make Fed pets superior to Klingon pets. :P
I'm sure it would be a nice chunk of change, if making actual content stopped paying the bills, but it's unnecessary and detrimental to Starfleet's identity as a peacekeeping organization that puts preserving the peace above the ability to project power and kill from a distance (part of that "Star Trek fan" thing you mentioned).
Starfleet doesn't need a giant battleship that shoots Defiants at things. Better AI for pets helps everyone.
Within the canon of this particular sub-version of Star Trek the Federation is a war. War with the KDF for most of the game. War with the Borg. War with the Undine, etc. And there is some major craziness going on with the Mirror Universe, Tholians, Voth, and so on. This is not your father's version of Star Trek - where the Feds are peaceful explorers. Its canon is quite different then what people are used to. Gamers need to accept that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Within the canon of this particular sub-version of Star Trek the Federation is a war.
They went to war with the Dominion with fleets of Galaxies, Excelsiors, Mirandas, Steamrunners, Akiras, Nebulas, and Defiants. Of those, only the Akira has any canon connection to a carrier role, and that is already expressed in-game by the Escort Carrier.
Carriers would be a resource-expensive and entirely unnecessary addition to this kind of fleet. The Federation's small craft are all warp-capable, and they lack a light attack craft like the B'Rel (the Defiant is one of the most heavily armed starships in the quadrant and is NOT a frigate, it is a full-blown warship on it's own, capable of slugging it out with front-line vessels like the Negh'var).
I see no need to solve the fed carrier envy. The cried for carriers until they got two different types (one unique to them) to satisfy them. No more needs to be done.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
can we stop with the "fed vs KDF" forum fights?
i play on every side, i want a FED carrier, i want a KDF escort carrier and 5 front weapons BoP/Raptor, i want to see a true romulan carrier too(since the scimitar which should've been one isn't).
more toys is better for everyone.
a fed carrier like this one would be awesome(its a carrier from starfleet command 2)
They went to war with the Dominion with fleets of Galaxies, Excelsiors, Mirandas, Steamrunners, Akiras, Nebulas, and Defiants. Of those, only the Akira has any canon connection to a carrier role, and that is already expressed in-game by the Escort Carrier.
Carriers would be a resource-expensive and entirely unnecessary addition to this kind of fleet. The Federation's small craft are all warp-capable, and they lack a light attack craft like the B'Rel (the Defiant is one of the most heavily armed starships in the quadrant and is NOT a frigate, it is a full-blown warship on it's own, capable of slugging it out with front-line vessels like the Negh'var).
The Dominion War lasted 2 years: 2373-2375. There was not enough time to build an entirely new warship just for that war - though it becomes clear that they already had the Defiant, Sovereign, and Prometheus all in the pipelines prior to the war.
Now project out 30 years past Nemesis. The Romulan Empire implodes, the KDF go rogue and start attack other species, etc. You do not need to be the President of the Federation to realize the Alpha and Beta Quadrants were going down the drain and conflict was on the horizon - even before the Borg showed up.
As far as warp-capable smallcraft, I will simply point out that it takes weeks to get to DS9 from Sol. Sticking pilots in their Peregrines and expecting them to eat, sleep, and work in their pilot seats for weeks on end is not practical - not that Trek writers ever give that any thought at all. Those fighters would have been brought into the conflict in some other way - even if it was just being towed via tractor rather then flying to DS9 themselves.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think one way to solve the carrier envy is not by giving Fed pets, but by making the detachable pets (eg promitheus) easier to use.
As of now, these pets have the benefit of persistent prescence, i.e if you die, the pets still remain to fight. Hangar pets die when carrier pets died.
That being said, they cannot be "revived" (except through reattachment) or commanded.
What can be done:
1) Allow pets to be commanded.
2) Allow them to be revived, either automatically (which may make it more OP) or by pressing button, or by using ship ability.
Detachable pets have one weakness com pare to hangars, in that it is tied to the ship, have fixed amanments, and cannot be changed, which actually provides the balance needed.
EDIT: Also work with whatever detachable pet ship KDF (Bortas) or Rom have (Hakkona)
Better control on them is one thing and I agree with, but being able to revive them and having them as permanent pets is a different thing and something I would say no to.
They went to war with the Dominion with fleets of Galaxies, Excelsiors, Mirandas, Steamrunners, Akiras, Nebulas, and Defiants. Of those, only the Akira has any canon connection to a carrier role, and that is already expressed in-game by the Escort Carrier.
Yeah, but according to the design notes the Akira itself is as big as the Sovereign. That's not even shown in its debut in First Contact, nor in DS9, and in every game and other EU story that features it, it has it at a smaller size instead of what it should be. And nothing in the show or movie even hints that the Akira is a carrier in any way, and fighters were at least somewhat important during the Dominion War, or else why would Sisko want more fighter escort to cover the Defiant during a battle instead of calling in the other full ship types?
So is it canon to be Sovereign big or the smaller escort shown in the movie/series, and is its carrier ability canon since it's never been depicted as such?
i play on every side, i want a FED carrier, i want a KDF escort carrier and 5 front weapons BoP/Raptor, i want to see a true romulan carrier too(since the scimitar which should've been one isn't).
more toys is better for everyone.
a fed carrier like this one would be awesome(its a carrier from starfleet command 2)
I'd say change the Jupiter Class from the big but weak Dreadnought it currently is into a full Fed Carrier, it looks quite similar to the Typhon Class carrier from the Star Trek: Invasion game.
Yeah, but according to the design notes the Akira itself is as big as the Sovereign. That's not even shown in its debut in First Contact, nor in DS9, and in every game and other EU story that features it, it has it at a smaller size instead of what it should be. And nothing in the show or movie even hints that the Akira is a carrier in any way, and fighters were at least somewhat important during the Dominion War, or else why would Sisko want more fighter escort to cover the Defiant during a battle instead of calling in the other full ship types?
So is it canon to be Sovereign big or the smaller escort shown in the movie/series, and is its carrier ability canon since it's never been depicted as such?
I'd say change the Jupiter Class from the big but weak Dreadnought it currently is into a full Fed Carrier, it looks quite similar to the Typhon Class carrier from the Star Trek: Invasion game.
honestly the jupiter is VERY ugly IMO, i'd prefer if cryptic followed the standard fed style like that screenshot i posted.
Well, no, you see, they're victims, so it's okay when they're annoying.
Both sides do the same things. It's annoying no matter who does it. Death to factions in all games.
THANK YOU
Victim-ism is so annoying.
Look the only way to solve this, IMO, is to add more factions. Lots of factions. And have widespread availability of most ship types to nearly everyone, albeit with some difficulty. (IE you have to actually justify your character having access to whatever other faction's ship.) This way we can play with whatever kind of character we like, with whatever kind of build we like. Put customization of playstyle in the hands of the players.
i play on every side, i want a FED carrier, i want a KDF escort carrier and 5 front weapons BoP/Raptor, i want to see a true romulan carrier too(since the scimitar which should've been one isn't).
more toys is better for everyone.
a fed carrier like this one would be awesome(its a carrier from starfleet command 2)
The KDF are fighting a losing battle, I enjoy playing as a Klingon now and then myself, but this is not the Klingon Empire Online, this is Star Trek Online and Star Trek was never about the Klingons, no amount of raging is going to warp reality enough to change that fact.
The Federation is never going to get a Starfleet full carrier, CBS said no, end of story, but both the Federation and the KDF need a ship that is on par with the Scimitar in size power and capabilities, maybe not the same but comparable.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
At the very least I agree with #1 in the OP. You should be able to command the saucer pets. This has nothing to do with parity or carrier envy, it just makes logical sense.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
honestly the jupiter is VERY ugly IMO, i'd prefer if cryptic followed the standard fed style like that screenshot i posted.
I agree with you on the Jupiter class, and while the Arc Royal class is very good looking the Chimera kinda looks like a smaller 25th century version of it. (I wouldn't complain if they added a hangar to the vet destroyers but I know most people would :P )
Yeah, but according to the design notes the Akira itself is as big as the Sovereign.
Good point. I was being generous with that, so thanks for the correction. With that in mind . . . .
So is it canon to be Sovereign big or the smaller escort shown in the movie/series, and is its carrier ability canon since it's never been depicted as such?
No, and no.
There is no solid canon evidence for dedicated carrier craft in the Star Trek canon. Fighters are simply heavily armed shuttles and are only ever seen in range of starbases or around fleets of ships that all have shuttlebays. The role of a carrier in a military setting (power projection) is already adeptly handled by Starfleet's normal ships and their compliments of secondary craft, whereas quick strikes are better handled by fully independent escorts that are lightly crewed but harder hitting.
Starfleet in STO has access to Caitian carriers and their own shuttle bays if they need to haul massed fighters somewhere distant. It has far more versatile ships like the Vesta who are capable of deploying small craft. It has no ships that fit the light Raider profile, and no apparent room for one in their order of battle. The Defiant is not one; flying a massive battleship that launches endless Defiants is as wrong in terms of power scale as flying a Sovereign that deploys Galaxies would be.
And aside from that, I would argue that the Vesta is better at doing what a carrier does than most dedicated carriers are (lockbox ships aside). You get worse pets, but it's made up for by having a ship that's actually fun to fly.
Comments
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
R.I.P
So, we're not going to be hearing anymore about KDF five tac console raptors? :P
Of course we do. In fact I would even dare to say that our satisfaction with our ship is what cause Cryptic to focus on Fed ship, because they will cry out and fork money out.
You always want your customer to be never satisfy and want more.
Well, no, you see, they're victims, so it's okay when they're annoying.
Both sides do the same things. It's annoying no matter who does it. Death to factions in all games.
They are just stuck in a grass is greener on the other side of the fence envy.
R.I.P
personally i would love it if i could tell my suacer to not kamakazi into a warp core breach or tell it to defend a team mate
There is definitely a "they" at work.
And I agree with them. Feds don't need cloaks. Feds don't need carriers. If they got them, most wouldn't use them as much as they think they would, and of those who did, most wouldn't know how to use them right and would get slaughtered. Klingons should get more ships, then Romulans, then Feds.
Doesn't matter. It's still annoying. He's literally just complaining because he saw the words "Fed Carrier" in the thread title, even though this is not a call for a new Fed ship and is something that would benefit both factions. There will be at least five-ten more posts exactly like his in this thread if it goes on for any decent page length.
Remove factions from this game and all other games entirely. It'd be less annoying than the forum warriors. Death to factions.
Yes, we noticed that he edited the post to add the Klingons after realizing his "solution to Fed carrier envy" was to make Fed pets superior to Klingon pets. :P
Well, the Federation now has four types of ships with Hangars. The Vesta (Science Vessel/Light Carrier), Armitage (Escort/Light Carrier), Caitian Carrier (Full Carrier), and the Dreadnought Cruiser (Dreadnought).
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
And no one is saying the KDF and Roms should not get more ships. But not selling things to the Feds is not how the KDF and Roms will get more things. Cryptic's goal is to make money not cut off one of its primary sources of income.
I'm sure it would be a nice chunk of change, if making actual content stopped paying the bills, but it's unnecessary and detrimental to Starfleet's identity as a peacekeeping organization that puts preserving the peace above the ability to project power and kill from a distance (part of that "Star Trek fan" thing you mentioned).
Starfleet doesn't need a giant battleship that shoots Defiants at things. Better AI for pets helps everyone.
R.I.P
Pathing could use a look to judging by how often my crew tries to walk through solid objects.
At least I am aware of it.
They went to war with the Dominion with fleets of Galaxies, Excelsiors, Mirandas, Steamrunners, Akiras, Nebulas, and Defiants. Of those, only the Akira has any canon connection to a carrier role, and that is already expressed in-game by the Escort Carrier.
Carriers would be a resource-expensive and entirely unnecessary addition to this kind of fleet. The Federation's small craft are all warp-capable, and they lack a light attack craft like the B'Rel (the Defiant is one of the most heavily armed starships in the quadrant and is NOT a frigate, it is a full-blown warship on it's own, capable of slugging it out with front-line vessels like the Negh'var).
can we stop with the "fed vs KDF" forum fights?
i play on every side, i want a FED carrier, i want a KDF escort carrier and 5 front weapons BoP/Raptor, i want to see a true romulan carrier too(since the scimitar which should've been one isn't).
more toys is better for everyone.
a fed carrier like this one would be awesome(its a carrier from starfleet command 2)
http://www.ussalbion.co.uk/arkroyal2202side.jpg
Now project out 30 years past Nemesis. The Romulan Empire implodes, the KDF go rogue and start attack other species, etc. You do not need to be the President of the Federation to realize the Alpha and Beta Quadrants were going down the drain and conflict was on the horizon - even before the Borg showed up.
As far as warp-capable smallcraft, I will simply point out that it takes weeks to get to DS9 from Sol. Sticking pilots in their Peregrines and expecting them to eat, sleep, and work in their pilot seats for weeks on end is not practical - not that Trek writers ever give that any thought at all. Those fighters would have been brought into the conflict in some other way - even if it was just being towed via tractor rather then flying to DS9 themselves.
Better control on them is one thing and I agree with, but being able to revive them and having them as permanent pets is a different thing and something I would say no to.
Yeah, but according to the design notes the Akira itself is as big as the Sovereign. That's not even shown in its debut in First Contact, nor in DS9, and in every game and other EU story that features it, it has it at a smaller size instead of what it should be. And nothing in the show or movie even hints that the Akira is a carrier in any way, and fighters were at least somewhat important during the Dominion War, or else why would Sisko want more fighter escort to cover the Defiant during a battle instead of calling in the other full ship types?
So is it canon to be Sovereign big or the smaller escort shown in the movie/series, and is its carrier ability canon since it's never been depicted as such?
I'd say change the Jupiter Class from the big but weak Dreadnought it currently is into a full Fed Carrier, it looks quite similar to the Typhon Class carrier from the Star Trek: Invasion game.
honestly the jupiter is VERY ugly IMO, i'd prefer if cryptic followed the standard fed style like that screenshot i posted.
THANK YOU
Victim-ism is so annoying.
Look the only way to solve this, IMO, is to add more factions. Lots of factions. And have widespread availability of most ship types to nearly everyone, albeit with some difficulty. (IE you have to actually justify your character having access to whatever other faction's ship.) This way we can play with whatever kind of character we like, with whatever kind of build we like. Put customization of playstyle in the hands of the players.
The Federation is never going to get a Starfleet full carrier, CBS said no, end of story, but both the Federation and the KDF need a ship that is on par with the Scimitar in size power and capabilities, maybe not the same but comparable.
Joined January 2009
I agree with you on the Jupiter class, and while the Arc Royal class is very good looking the Chimera kinda looks like a smaller 25th century version of it. (I wouldn't complain if they added a hangar to the vet destroyers but I know most people would :P )
Good point. I was being generous with that, so thanks for the correction. With that in mind . . . .
No, and no.
There is no solid canon evidence for dedicated carrier craft in the Star Trek canon. Fighters are simply heavily armed shuttles and are only ever seen in range of starbases or around fleets of ships that all have shuttlebays. The role of a carrier in a military setting (power projection) is already adeptly handled by Starfleet's normal ships and their compliments of secondary craft, whereas quick strikes are better handled by fully independent escorts that are lightly crewed but harder hitting.
Starfleet in STO has access to Caitian carriers and their own shuttle bays if they need to haul massed fighters somewhere distant. It has far more versatile ships like the Vesta who are capable of deploying small craft. It has no ships that fit the light Raider profile, and no apparent room for one in their order of battle. The Defiant is not one; flying a massive battleship that launches endless Defiants is as wrong in terms of power scale as flying a Sovereign that deploys Galaxies would be.
And aside from that, I would argue that the Vesta is better at doing what a carrier does than most dedicated carriers are (lockbox ships aside). You get worse pets, but it's made up for by having a ship that's actually fun to fly.