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Patrol Escort Refit STF (VIDEO)

hrci2907hrci2907 Member Posts: 648 Media Corps
Hey guys this is a run of a Patrol Escort Refit in an Elite STF.:)

You can check it out on this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmOJWyLK5XI
"This is your ultimate STO Youtube channel!"
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
Post edited by hrci2907 on

Comments

  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The console sure has some sexy visuals...the tail aft is more of a better then nothing deal...what energy type is it?

    Looked like a decent ship
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Aft tail gun is phaser.
    JWZrsUV.jpg
    Mine Trap Supporter
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Is it that common to do the backwards and forwards dance?

    My understanding of the game from launch was that we were meant to fly in circles.

    The backwards and forwards movement almost seems too effective. Also, as a result, I'm not sure that we ever see the tail gun in this video.

    I think for the OP's style, he should look at putting the Nadion console and multi-vector assault mode together on the Mirror Universe Patrol Escort. He would lose some shields and one Tac console but would gain MVAM.

    The tail gun will underperform if you don't fly in circles.
  • hrci2907hrci2907 Member Posts: 648 Media Corps
    edited May 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    The console sure has some sexy visuals...the tail aft is more of a better then nothing deal...what energy type is it?

    Looked like a decent ship

    Yeah the console is quite effective! And it could be quite deadly. Tail aft gun is based on phasers,
    but unfortunantly as it have 90 degrees firing arc its not as usefull as I thought. When you fly a escort you should always have an enemy in your front firing arc, so the aft cannon can't be used as it should be.
    "This is your ultimate STO Youtube channel!"
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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    hrci2907 wrote: »
    Yeah the console is quite effective! And it could be quite deadly. Tail aft gun is based on phasers,
    but unfortunantly as it have 90 degrees firing arc its not as usefull as I thought. When you fly a escort you should always have an enemy in your front firing arc, so the aft cannon can't be used as it should be.

    The "stationary escort" thing seems to miss the point of how escorts fly on the shows and the backwards lining up looks goofy. I know it is the most effective strategy but I'd almost expect Cryptic to eventually "fix" that approach, probably the next time they decide escorts are OP.

    If, say, they tied cannon/turret damage to ship speed.

    But in the meantime, I think you'd get more bang here by planting the Nadion console on the Mirror Patrol Escort (ie. the Mirror Prometheus) along with MVAM in the Sci slots.

    Without a reason to actually circle, MVAM in a sci slot will do more than most other things you'd put there. You are down one Tac console over the fleet version that way but remain superior to the C-Store ship.

    The Fleet version's extra Tac console will probably come out ahead but the Mirror Prommie with the Tempest Nadion console seems like more fun.

    'I'm waiting until I can get a full Undine Bio-Phaser set to really try this though.
  • showmeyourhonorshowmeyourhonor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The "stationary escort" thing seems to miss the point of how escorts fly on the shows and the backwards lining up looks goofy. I know it is the most effective strategy but I'd almost expect Cryptic to eventually "fix" that approach, probably the next time they decide escorts are OP.

    If, say, they tied cannon/turret damage to ship speed.

    But in the meantime, I think you'd get more bang here by planting the Nadion console on the Mirror Patrol Escort (ie. the Mirror Prometheus) along with MVAM in the Sci slots.

    Without a reason to actually circle, MVAM in a sci slot will do more than most other things you'd put there. You are down one Tac console over the fleet version that way but remain superior to the C-Store ship.

    The Fleet version's extra Tac console will probably come out ahead but the Mirror Prommie with the Tempest Nadion console seems like more fun.

    'I'm waiting until I can get a full Undine Bio-Phaser set to really try this though.

    So for the sake of a power that only works once every three minutes, you'd change from a really good ship to one that isn't nearly as good? The superior boff layout of the Patrol-Refit is far better than any silly clicky console.

    Also game mechanics =/= appearance on the shows.

    OP, you should replace the dual cannons on the front with dual heavy cannons, and run 2 turrets and the cutting beam on the back. It will make your escort a lot more effective.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    So for the sake of a power that only works once every three minutes, you'd change from a really good ship to one that isn't nearly as good? The superior boff layout of the Patrol-Refit is far better than any silly clicky console.

    Also game mechanics =/= appearance on the shows.

    OP, you should replace the dual cannons on the front with dual heavy cannons, and run 2 turrets and the cutting beam on the back. It will make your escort a lot more effective.

    Mirror Prometheus has an almost identical BOff layout to the standard Patrol Escort. MVAM is closer to an always on toggle, than a clicky.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mirror_Universe_Patrol_Escort

    It's a tradeout of Lt. Cmdr Eng to Ensign Eng, 1.5k hull, 1 Tac console for 1 Eng console.

    Much of that is going to seem like a bigger deal on paper than in practice and the MVAM boosts will result in superior weapon power and always on pets whereas the tail gun is going to be far more situational.

    Paper != gameplay.

    Recently I was looking at shuttle builds for example and a big point was made about the Point Defense system... But unless you're firing it every cooldown against a group of enemies, a spire vulnerability locator coupled with omnidirectional AP and AP turret is going to do more damage on average due to situational variables.

    Just like always on pets and weapons power will probably require a lot of skill in the PER to match the dumb always on power you'd be getting from MVAM.

    Also consider that if you're using the Nadion console and ever planning to use the tailgun, you're speccing deep into phasers even though phasers will be a very situational damage type for you. Whereas your MVAM pets in the Mirror Prometheus will benefit more from the always on phaser boosts.

    IMHO, if we could get a Fleet Mirror Patrol Escort, that would be the optimum build to drop an MVAM on.

    I would also tend to agree with Geko that players tend to do paper minmaxing in ways that fail to reflect actual game situations. On paper, sure, the PE Refit is the ship to fly. But if you aren't getting full benefit out of its gimmicks, I think the MUPE with the C-Store consoles of its two big siblings is an underestimated force.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I would also tend to agree with Geko that players tend to do paper minmaxing in ways that fail to reflect actual game situations. On paper, sure, the PE Refit is the ship to fly. But if you aren't getting full benefit out of its gimmicks, I think the MUPE with the C-Store consoles of its two big siblings is an underestimated force.

    Very few gimmicks are superior to flat out boosts. And most of those gimmicks tend to give those flat out boosts. As for Geko and the player opinion on proper minmaxing I would lean toward believing those who smash PvE content in record times and those who have a vast understanding of PvP over his on what works well during actual game situations.

    That said STO has many 'metas' so to speak. Unlike most MMOs where endgame content realistically only has one way to complete it and tends to primarily devolve into gear checks STO content is stupid easy. Which leads to the metas.

    Min/Max Meta: These are the players who fly PvE premade groups designed to smash everything as fast as humanly possible. Many of their builds will not perform as well by themselves in an average or poor PuG due to lack of team synergy and a lack of tank sustain.

    PuG Meta: These are those of us who PuG. Their are three distinct groups here, carries, average joe, and baddies. Carries are those who tend to bring what is required to ensure victory relatively quickly without relying upon the team being good. Average Joe does pretty well but struggles if they end up stuck with a bunch of Baddies. Baddies are those players who struggle to out DPS a hanger pet and explode everytime an NPC activates FaW.

    Then you got the various PvP metas as well which I'm not going to go into right now. My point is the STO endgame experience is massively varied and therefore so is the concept of 'minmaxing for your meta'.

    However in the end their are still plenty of BiS, or Best in Slot, things in STO. But beyond that there are more 'So bad you are purposely hurting your performance if you use it' things in STO than a single forum post's character limit will fit.
  • hrci2907hrci2907 Member Posts: 648 Media Corps
    edited May 2014
    Is it that common to do the backwards and forwards dance?

    My understanding of the game from launch was that we were meant to fly in circles.

    The backwards and forwards movement almost seems too effective. Also, as a result, I'm not sure that we ever see the tail gun in this video.

    I think for the OP's style, he should look at putting the Nadion console and multi-vector assault mode together on the Mirror Universe Patrol Escort. He would lose some shields and one Tac console but would gain MVAM.

    The tail gun will underperform if you don't fly in circles.

    Because I fly mostly escorts, My flying style is to fly forwards and backwards. That way I always have the enemy in front of and my front weapons. And in that way I am far more effective the flying in circles, that is probably more suited for cruisers with beams.

    And yes unfortunantly in that setup the aft tail gun is kinda useless as its only have 90 degrees firing arc.
    "This is your ultimate STO Youtube channel!"
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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    hrci2907 wrote: »
    Because I fly mostly escorts, My flying style is to fly forwards and backwards. That way I always have the enemy in front of and my front weapons. And in that way I am far more effective the flying in circles, that is probably more suited for cruisers with beams.

    And yes unfortunantly in that setup the aft tail gun is kinda useless as its only have 90 degrees firing arc.

    It also tends to trivialize escorts' superior turnrate. And their high base damage is in theory supposed to be offset by a need to constantly stay moving.

    The tailgun and the Risian Corvette's speed seem to me like attempts to get people moving.

    Also, the need to turn in cruisers is part of what makes their "majestic" low turnrates a pain in the aft.

    Again, not going to fault anyone for playing optimally but what is optimal doesn't exactly seem like it's working as intended here.
  • hrci2907hrci2907 Member Posts: 648 Media Corps
    edited May 2014
    It also tends to trivialize escorts' superior turnrate. And their high base damage is in theory supposed to be offset by a need to constantly stay moving.

    The tailgun and the Risian Corvette's speed seem to me like attempts to get people moving.

    Also, the need to turn in cruisers is part of what makes their "majestic" low turnrates a pain in the aft.

    Again, not going to fault anyone for playing optimally but what is optimal doesn't exactly seem like it's working as intended here.

    You are missing the point. At stfs we mostly fight stationary targets, so if I have to choose between flying around the target and not being able to fire my dual heavy cannons and my dual beam bank or just use my turret and the the aft gun and fly around the target its obvious what I will choose. It's definitely the first option. Why? Well its just pure simple math, dual heavy cannons and a dual beam bank provide you with more DPS, that is it. If I were in an PVP that's a different story, no one there stay still so you must fly around and chase them. That I will show in my next video.
    "This is your ultimate STO Youtube channel!"
    https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    hrci2907 wrote: »
    You are missing the point. At stfs we mostly fight stationary targets, so if I have to choose between flying around the target and not being able to fire my dual heavy cannons and my dual beam bank or just use my turret and the the aft gun and fly around the target its obvious what I will choose. It's definitely the first option. Why? Well its just pure simple math, dual heavy cannons and a dual beam bank provide you with more DPS, that is it. If I were in an PVP that's a different story, no one there stay still so you must fly around and chase them. That I will show in my next video.

    Right. I'm saying what you are doing mechanically makes sense but that the mechanics are probably flawed if they don't favor fighting a cube like this:

    http://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI

    Or like this:

    http://youtu.be/gn02c176YuI

    You are not in error however the mechanics encouraging parking are very off kilter from the IP and what I recall as being the stated overall design intent of the ships at launch.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You are not in error however the mechanics encouraging parking are very off kilter from the IP and what I recall as being the stated overall design intent of the ships at launch.

    Don't remind me of all the things that were said at launch and never happened, I might get depressed and I was in a good mood.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • sohtohsohtoh Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It also tends to trivialize escorts' superior turnrate. And their high base damage is in theory supposed to be offset by a need to constantly stay moving.

    The tailgun and the Risian Corvette's speed seem to me like attempts to get people moving.

    Also, the need to turn in cruisers is part of what makes their "majestic" low turnrates a pain in the aft.

    Again, not going to fault anyone for playing optimally but what is optimal doesn't exactly seem like it's working as intended here.
    hrci2907 wrote: »
    You are missing the point. At stfs we mostly fight stationary targets, so if I have to choose between flying around the target and not being able to fire my dual heavy cannons and my dual beam bank or just use my turret and the the aft gun and fly around the target its obvious what I will choose. It's definitely the first option. Why? Well its just pure simple math, dual heavy cannons and a dual beam bank provide you with more DPS, that is it. If I were in an PVP that's a different story, no one there stay still so you must fly around and chase them. That I will show in my next video.

    @hrci2907. When stoleviathan99 refers to flying in circles with an escort, he may be referring to the intended attack method for escorts, which were strafing runs. Approach target, attack target, circle back around and repeat.

    The back and forth method of attack is more efficient for dealing out damage with an escort than the strafing runs, at least in my experience. And with the increased survivability, it is more lucrative.
    "I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    sohtoh wrote: »
    @hrci2907. When stoleviathan99 refers to flying in circles with an escort, he may be referring to the intended attack method for escorts, which were strafing runs. Approach target, attack target, circle back around and repeat.

    The back and forth method of attack is more efficient for dealing out damage with an escort than the strafing runs, at least in my experience. And with the increased survivability, it is more lucrative.

    Exactly. This is why they added a penalty to going in reverse although it's become trivial.

    I also think it's an example of fixing a problem with a punishment rather than an incentive.

    If they wanted to emulate Trek fighting and the original intent, IMHO, torpedos would get an accuracy bonus when fired at low speed (encouraging torpedo boats to take it slow, since in IP, torpedo shots tended to be fired by stationary or slow ships) and energy weapons would get a damage bonus when fired at high speed (which perhaps makes some sense since energy weapons were supposed to benefit from a hot-running engine; beams were sometimes referred to as running off engine power and the Defiant's overclocked engine was supposed to be what made it a warship). Then people would strafe with energy weapons and slow down or remain stationary to fire torpedos. It would also tend to encourage using at least some torpedos in ships that cannot fare well at strafing runs.

    Another solution might also be to lift the restrictions on heavier weapons in the aft and allow DHCs to be rear mounted.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Side note: I actually see torpedoes as being weak enough in game such that in addition to an accuracy increase in inverse proportion to speed, maybe also giving them a cooldown reduction at low speeds.
  • hrci2907hrci2907 Member Posts: 648 Media Corps
    edited May 2014
    sohtoh wrote: »
    @hrci2907. When stoleviathan99 refers to flying in circles with an escort, he may be referring to the intended attack method for escorts, which were strafing runs. Approach target, attack target, circle back around and repeat.

    The back and forth method of attack is more efficient for dealing out damage with an escort than the strafing runs, at least in my experience. And with the increased survivability, it is more lucrative.

    Thats my point excatly, its not canon, but its far more effective!
    "This is your ultimate STO Youtube channel!"
    https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
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