I expect this and similar suggestions have been mentioned many times, so sorry if its a repeat.
How viable is a tactical class in a cruiser ship?
When I reach 50 I am tempted by the Odyssey Tactical Cruiser.
I like big ship feel but I also (In this MMO anyway) prefer to play a straight forward damage role.
Apart from the ship abilities being engineer based is there much difference?
I know the turn speed is poor so I will have to go beam weapons and broadside (That appeals to me to be honest).
What I am also curious about is this.
If I have a standard weapon that does say 100 damage is this base 100 the same across all classes?
Does if differ for tactical over science for example.
If it does not differ then I can't see much difference between cruisers and escorts apart from play style and ship abilities... or am I way off the mark.
I expect this and similar suggestions have been mentioned many times, so sorry if its a repeat.
How viable is a tactical class in a cruiser ship?
When I reach 50 I am tempted by the Odyssey Tactical Cruiser.
I like big ship feel but I also (In this MMO anyway) prefer to play a straight forward damage role.
Apart from the ship abilities being engineer based is there much difference?
I know the turn speed is poor so I will have to go beam weapons and broadside (That appeals to me to be honest).
What I am also curious about is this.
If I have a standard weapon that does say 100 damage is this base 100 the same across all classes?
Does if differ for tactical over science for example.
If it does not differ then I can't see much difference between cruisers and escorts apart from play style and ship abilities... or am I way off the mark.
Thanks in advance for reading and any replies.
I'm going to assume your first question is asking if there is a difference between a escort and the tac oddy. The answer to this is a overwhelming yes. They are 2 completely different ship choices.
Escort playstyle is more tactically focused but it can't take as much damage as a cruiser for the more part unless you set it up extremely well.
Alright now about your weapon question. Let's say you had a phaser beam array. You stick it on your escort. Your escort has 4-5 tactical consoles + your tac captain abilities to boost damage weapon power also comes into play here all escorts have a passive bonus to weapon power usually +15 I believe. So for the sake of this. We'll say this beam array now does 200 damage and 300 with your captain's abilities.
Now let' take that same exact beam array and put it on a tac oddy. Tac oddy only has 3 tac consoles you do still have your captain's abilities but the oddy if memory serves me only has +10 or + 5 to weapon power. The beam array now does say 150 damage normally and with captain's abilities around 250.
Now it isn't always this black and white if for example you had better tac consoles on your oddy then you did your escort you could do more damage etc.
I'd recommend buying the Regent zen store ship for the WAQ torp (you can broadside with it) and then grab the fleet assault cruiser for 1 fleet module. I like it more than the Oddy but they are very similar.
The most powerful setup in the game is a tactical captain with an engineering-heavy BOFF layout, which is exactly what you get with a cruiser. The captain buffs damage with his inherent abilities, and the engi BOFFs buff subsystem power and handle the repairs.
Apart from the ship abilities being engineer based is there much difference?
You want something that will buff weapon power, since that is what sustained damage is linked to the most directly. Turn-rate and impulse mod will help you get to the next target quicker.
If I have a standard weapon that does say 100 damage is this base 100 the same across all classes?
There are a lot of variables that go into final damage. Look around for DPS calculators.
The highest DPS players are I believe tac capts in cruisers, beams are currently the best weapons and cruisers allow for 8 of them with advantageous boff setups, doffs and equipment. The fleet versions are a bit more durable than the cstore ones, for 500 zen its worth the upgrade, you then have the choice of the same firepower and more safety or dropping some tanking gear and having even more firepower and the similar durability.
The old dps records were set before the trait system was changed, not sure how the top dpsers were effected.
Mirror ships are a good way to test drive vessels and test boffs, doffs and gear before going for the big investment. On the other hand if money is no object there are also the lobi store ships that can also be had on the exchange for 85-110m EC or from the lobi store for what are usually insanely expensive crystals, that said I think 180 will be available for free in a week's time if you play the special event.
I run a tactical in a Fleet Avenger on my main. See the USS Andraste link in my sig for my build.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Avenger, Excelsior, Regent... all of these are fine Tac cruisers for Starfleet.
The new Undine set for Phasers/Disruptors + Photon damage is nice for faster turning ships. I don't think you absolutely need the Regent's 180 Quantum launcher, in any case. Especially with the Enhanced Biomolecular torpedo being OP right now.
Excelsior & Avenger, especially, can make the thing work really well. Plus, you get the Lt.Com Tac in both of those
look at it taht way...no matter what ship you choose, a tac captain will make it hit harder.
An engi captain will make it tougher and a sci captain has subnuke + a little from both, offense and defense.
engi in an escort makes a tough little escort, but won't hit as hard as a tac or a sci using the same ship.
Tac in a cruiser or sci ship will greatly increase their firepower.
i'm not a fan of engi in cruiser or sci in sci vessel, since the first combo normaly lacks firepower almost to the point of uselesness.
The other, while good for PVP to harass and CC other player, needs experiance and is by far the hardest to setup. It also functions best in a team rather than on its own.
The Avenger is as close to perfect as you can get from a Cruiser. The entire point of selecting a ship is to choose one that gives what you lack. As an Engineer, you lack firepower. As a Tactical, you lack survivability. Avenger gives both, and in abundance.
But then, you do also have the Odyssey as a novelty toy. It gives significant survivability, but can also supply loads of firepower when properly equipped. For example, load it with 6 Fleet Antiproton beams, the Omnidirectional Beam in rear, and an anti-Borg torpedo in front, and you have a ship that is devastating, but can also withstand anything Borg can throw at you. To make it even better, you can give your Odyssey the ability to move. Load it with [Turn] Neutroniums, the Assimilated Technology set, and the Assimilated Module.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
A tac in a cruiser is a tank/DPS hybrid. How much is DPS and how much is tank depends on your precise build and setup. It can range from anything from a Galaxy-R (megatank with somewhat buffed DPS) to an Avenger (escort-like cruiser, but still a cruiser) to anything in between, which includes the tactical Odyssey.
Although my personal recommendation is to have the saucer sep console on board (although many disagree with that, I think it's extremely valuable), the tac is the hull you'd want for an Ody. It's quite viable, if you set it up right.
That said, a tac in a cruiser tends to do much better if they are in a tactical cruiser. The Odyssey tactical cruiser is a tactical cruiser, but probably the least tactical of those available. I would strongly recommend you consider an Avenger, Assault Cruiser Refit, or an Excelsior Retrofit, or fleet variants thereof, as these are all solid tactical cruisers. You may also consider the Galaxy-X, but if you do I strongly suggest the Fleet version, and the pack, if you have the budget for it; IMO the saucer separation ability and hangar are what throttled that ship from 'has-been' to a solid tactical battleship.
If you have NEVER used a cruiser before, I strongly advise you pick up a Mirror Star Cruiser on the Exchange. They're pretty cheap. While an Assault Cruiser is basically a jack-of-all-trades, it does them well, and gives a very good indication of what 'cruiser play' is like.
For reference, my main is a tac in a Galaxy-X and Fleet Assault Cruiser, and I find them fantastic. I'm usually able to pour on the punishment and there's not a whole lot that can actually crack my defenses.
I set up a Fleet Excelsior back when the Mirror Invasion was on since I felt like my Prometheus wasn't cutting it for handling so many targets even with GW/CSV/TS. As an A2B/FAW beam boat, it's pretty successful. Some casual testing I've had it spike over 17.5k DPS, and sustain easily well in excess of 10k. In a way I feel like it's STO "easy mode", but depending on the content you're doing, careful positioning and management of aggro can be key. If you open up FAW in the middle of a Voth attack in the Undine Battlezone, they're going to stack Grav Wells on you, and there's a good chance it'll kill you (especially with the framerate drop that causes). On the other hand, parking over a Klingon artillery gun and killing or at least holding aggro on everything around while somebody else activates the gun is pretty damn handy. My Prometheus is still on hot standby, but I've been enjoying the fact that I can finally fly one of the Enterprise types and feel not only that I'm not a liability, but that I'm one of the most powerful things on the field. People sure don't groan when they warp into an STF and see a team full of cruisers anymore.
A tac captain in a cruiser . What a waste . His abilities to reduce the CDs are wasted on the crusiers reduced tac bo abilities
In truth, that ability is sort of a waste anyway. On a ship with many Tac abilities, you would not be using that ability much anyway, since you would instead just dual-copy everything. In any event, that ability is of limited utility because of its craptastic uptime, and most people thus tend to ignore it anyway.
People sure don't groan when they warp into an STF and see a team full of cruisers anymore.
'tis true, at least these days cruisers pull their weight. Now if only we could stop groaning when warping into a team full of Sci ships...cuz sure, there's a FEW Sci ships that aren't bad, but most of them achieve this with layouts that are practically Cruisers or Escorts themselves.
Attack Pattern Beta II and Fire at Will II? Why not APB I and FAW III? The rest of the build looks nice, no use of torpedoes saves some skill points for subsystem purrformance and efficiency, which is good when you fly a cr00zer. Also, I'd recommend to put 5 normal beam arrays in the front, then you have more damage output facing forward, since both the kinetic and omnipotent array fire 360 degree. I have never seen that blue autotarget console ... is that a lobi console? What boost does it give you? Just wondering.
~ Meowz
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Attack Pattern Beta II and Fire at Will II? Why not APB I and FAW III? The rest of the build looks nice, no use of torpedoes saves some skill points for subsystem purrformance and efficiency, which is good when you fly a cr00zer. Also, I'd recommend to put 5 normal beam arrays in the front, then you have more damage output facing forward, since both the kinetic and omnipotent array fire 360 degree. I have never seen that blue autotarget console ... is that a lobi console? What boost does it give you? Just wondering.
~ Meowz
There are several weird things with that build. A single ATB in the LTC spot? Then running SIF III on a shared cool down in the commander spot. Nukara console instead of something helpful like PL.
I run a tactical in a Fleet Avenger on my main. See the USS Andraste link in my sig for my build.
If you don't mind my saying... you have no projectile weaponry, but you have put points in 'Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization,' and 'Starship Projectile Weapons' which are doing absolutely nothing for you. Those points will make a notable difference if you put them into something like 'Starship Armor Reinforcements,' or 'Starship Hull Plating', or perhaps in 'Starship Shield Performance,' 'Starship Shield Systems,' or 'Starship Weapon Performance.'
You also are not using any abilities that require 'Starship Particle Generators' so you could use those points somewhere else more beneficial as well.
Other then that, I do like your build, I also fly an all beams Fleet Avenger. A great ship for tactical career.
I expect this and similar suggestions have been mentioned many times, so sorry if its a repeat.
How viable is a tactical class in a cruiser ship?
When I reach 50 I am tempted by the Odyssey Tactical Cruiser.
I like big ship feel but I also (In this MMO anyway) prefer to play a straight forward damage role.
Apart from the ship abilities being engineer based is there much difference?
I know the turn speed is poor so I will have to go beam weapons and broadside (That appeals to me to be honest).
What I am also curious about is this.
If I have a standard weapon that does say 100 damage is this base 100 the same across all classes?
Does if differ for tactical over science for example.
If it does not differ then I can't see much difference between cruisers and escorts apart from play style and ship abilities... or am I way off the mark.
Thanks in advance for reading and any replies.
Fleet Excelsior faw spam boat ftw!
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If it does not differ then I can't see much difference between cruisers and escorts apart from play style and ship abilities... or am I way off the mark.
The short version is that it largely doesn't matter in PVE what size of hull you fly around in - aside from a few outlying cases where ships come with passive buffs built-in, if you mount a weapon on an empty Cruiser Hull then it's going to deal exactly the same damage (before abilities) as if you mounted it on an empty Escort Hull. Escorts will just be a bit more manoeuvrable and a bit less durable than Cruisers.
The major differences will stem from the combinations of Bridge Officer Abilities your ship lets you use, the number of Console slots (mainly Tactical Consoles), and whether or not the ship can mount Dual Cannons. Then there are a few other considerations; such as special inherent abilities and Hangar Bays. (The Science Odyssey, for example, technically fights better than a Tactical Odyssey due to Sensor Analysis. The multiplicative damage buff from SA will always outperform a 3rd Tac console's additive damage buff!)
Captain types act as force multipliers to this: in the same ship, a Tactical Captain will always do more damage but be less survivable than an Engineering Captain; with a Science Captain somewhere in the middle.
Personally, I love the feel of the Odyssey for a Tank build; but if I wanted to do straight-up damage I'd opt for an Escort. The new Patrol refit is certainly an excellent choice, but I still like my Armitage.
Just a thought is it worth levelling in a cruiser (Rather than escorts) to get a feel for them?
It doesn't really matter. They're easy to get a feel for. I levelled up in escorts and now switch back and forth between them and cruisers regularly. As someone previously mentioned the Excelsior, Regent and Avenger are all excellent tactical cruiser choices, with the Excelsior being my favorite ship in the entire game.
Comments
I'm going to assume your first question is asking if there is a difference between a escort and the tac oddy. The answer to this is a overwhelming yes. They are 2 completely different ship choices.
Escort playstyle is more tactically focused but it can't take as much damage as a cruiser for the more part unless you set it up extremely well.
Alright now about your weapon question. Let's say you had a phaser beam array. You stick it on your escort. Your escort has 4-5 tactical consoles + your tac captain abilities to boost damage weapon power also comes into play here all escorts have a passive bonus to weapon power usually +15 I believe. So for the sake of this. We'll say this beam array now does 200 damage and 300 with your captain's abilities.
Now let' take that same exact beam array and put it on a tac oddy. Tac oddy only has 3 tac consoles you do still have your captain's abilities but the oddy if memory serves me only has +10 or + 5 to weapon power. The beam array now does say 150 damage normally and with captain's abilities around 250.
Now it isn't always this black and white if for example you had better tac consoles on your oddy then you did your escort you could do more damage etc.
Hope this helps
I'd recommend buying the Regent zen store ship for the WAQ torp (you can broadside with it) and then grab the fleet assault cruiser for 1 fleet module. I like it more than the Oddy but they are very similar.
You want something that will buff weapon power, since that is what sustained damage is linked to the most directly. Turn-rate and impulse mod will help you get to the next target quicker.
There are a lot of variables that go into final damage. Look around for DPS calculators.
The old dps records were set before the trait system was changed, not sure how the top dpsers were effected.
Mirror ships are a good way to test drive vessels and test boffs, doffs and gear before going for the big investment. On the other hand if money is no object there are also the lobi store ships that can also be had on the exchange for 85-110m EC or from the lobi store for what are usually insanely expensive crystals, that said I think 180 will be available for free in a week's time if you play the special event.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The new Undine set for Phasers/Disruptors + Photon damage is nice for faster turning ships. I don't think you absolutely need the Regent's 180 Quantum launcher, in any case. Especially with the Enhanced Biomolecular torpedo being OP right now.
Excelsior & Avenger, especially, can make the thing work really well. Plus, you get the Lt.Com Tac in both of those
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
An engi captain will make it tougher and a sci captain has subnuke + a little from both, offense and defense.
engi in an escort makes a tough little escort, but won't hit as hard as a tac or a sci using the same ship.
Tac in a cruiser or sci ship will greatly increase their firepower.
i'm not a fan of engi in cruiser or sci in sci vessel, since the first combo normaly lacks firepower almost to the point of uselesness.
The other, while good for PVP to harass and CC other player, needs experiance and is by far the hardest to setup. It also functions best in a team rather than on its own.
But then, you do also have the Odyssey as a novelty toy. It gives significant survivability, but can also supply loads of firepower when properly equipped. For example, load it with 6 Fleet Antiproton beams, the Omnidirectional Beam in rear, and an anti-Borg torpedo in front, and you have a ship that is devastating, but can also withstand anything Borg can throw at you. To make it even better, you can give your Odyssey the ability to move. Load it with [Turn] Neutroniums, the Assimilated Technology set, and the Assimilated Module.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
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Although my personal recommendation is to have the saucer sep console on board (although many disagree with that, I think it's extremely valuable), the tac is the hull you'd want for an Ody. It's quite viable, if you set it up right.
That said, a tac in a cruiser tends to do much better if they are in a tactical cruiser. The Odyssey tactical cruiser is a tactical cruiser, but probably the least tactical of those available. I would strongly recommend you consider an Avenger, Assault Cruiser Refit, or an Excelsior Retrofit, or fleet variants thereof, as these are all solid tactical cruisers. You may also consider the Galaxy-X, but if you do I strongly suggest the Fleet version, and the pack, if you have the budget for it; IMO the saucer separation ability and hangar are what throttled that ship from 'has-been' to a solid tactical battleship.
If you have NEVER used a cruiser before, I strongly advise you pick up a Mirror Star Cruiser on the Exchange. They're pretty cheap. While an Assault Cruiser is basically a jack-of-all-trades, it does them well, and gives a very good indication of what 'cruiser play' is like.
For reference, my main is a tac in a Galaxy-X and Fleet Assault Cruiser, and I find them fantastic. I'm usually able to pour on the punishment and there's not a whole lot that can actually crack my defenses.
'tis true, at least these days cruisers pull their weight. Now if only we could stop groaning when warping into a team full of Sci ships...cuz sure, there's a FEW Sci ships that aren't bad, but most of them achieve this with layouts that are practically Cruisers or Escorts themselves.
Just a thought is it worth levelling in a cruiser (Rather than escorts) to get a feel for them?
~ Meowz
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
There are several weird things with that build. A single ATB in the LTC spot? Then running SIF III on a shared cool down in the commander spot. Nukara console instead of something helpful like PL.
If you don't mind my saying... you have no projectile weaponry, but you have put points in 'Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization,' and 'Starship Projectile Weapons' which are doing absolutely nothing for you. Those points will make a notable difference if you put them into something like 'Starship Armor Reinforcements,' or 'Starship Hull Plating', or perhaps in 'Starship Shield Performance,' 'Starship Shield Systems,' or 'Starship Weapon Performance.'
You also are not using any abilities that require 'Starship Particle Generators' so you could use those points somewhere else more beneficial as well.
Other then that, I do like your build, I also fly an all beams Fleet Avenger. A great ship for tactical career.
Have they fixed the accuracy overflow or boosted the console somehow? Am I missing something?
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
Fleet Excelsior faw spam boat ftw!
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The short version is that it largely doesn't matter in PVE what size of hull you fly around in - aside from a few outlying cases where ships come with passive buffs built-in, if you mount a weapon on an empty Cruiser Hull then it's going to deal exactly the same damage (before abilities) as if you mounted it on an empty Escort Hull. Escorts will just be a bit more manoeuvrable and a bit less durable than Cruisers.
The major differences will stem from the combinations of Bridge Officer Abilities your ship lets you use, the number of Console slots (mainly Tactical Consoles), and whether or not the ship can mount Dual Cannons. Then there are a few other considerations; such as special inherent abilities and Hangar Bays. (The Science Odyssey, for example, technically fights better than a Tactical Odyssey due to Sensor Analysis. The multiplicative damage buff from SA will always outperform a 3rd Tac console's additive damage buff!)
Captain types act as force multipliers to this: in the same ship, a Tactical Captain will always do more damage but be less survivable than an Engineering Captain; with a Science Captain somewhere in the middle.
Personally, I love the feel of the Odyssey for a Tank build; but if I wanted to do straight-up damage I'd opt for an Escort. The new Patrol refit is certainly an excellent choice, but I still like my Armitage.
It doesn't really matter. They're easy to get a feel for. I levelled up in escorts and now switch back and forth between them and cruisers regularly. As someone previously mentioned the Excelsior, Regent and Avenger are all excellent tactical cruiser choices, with the Excelsior being my favorite ship in the entire game.