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Any news on Aux beam weapons?

iceeaglexiceeaglex Member Posts: 375 Arc User
As in, beam arrays or DBBs?
They would really be helpful to us poor sci captains, without making anything OP or powercreep or whatever the problem is these days.
Post edited by iceeaglex on

Comments

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    How are Vestas with Aux Beam Arrays / Dual Beams NOT OP?
    XzRTofz.gif
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What has you thinking that Cryptic cares about power creep or OP-ness?
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What has you thinking that Cryptic cares about power creep or OP-ness?

    Yes, because once wrongs have been committed, let's keep doing it :rolleyes:
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  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    How are Vestas with Aux Beam Arrays / Dual Beams NOT OP?


    Vesta's only get the TRIBBLE cannons

    Cryptic doesnt like beam weapons because there canon i guess
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »


    Vesta's only get the TRIBBLE cannons

    Cryptic doesnt like beam weapons because there canon i guess

    Dhc's arc on slow turning Vesta is the only thing that saved aux weapons from completely breaking the game. And yes, it's intentional.;)
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yes, because once wrongs have been committed, let's keep doing it :rolleyes:

    Bad ideas haven't stopped them before. Look at the fleet tac consoles or the new ship. Aux beams would be a bad idea, but I wouldn't be surprised anymore.
  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Bad ideas haven't stopped them before. Look at the fleet tac consoles or the new ship. Aux beams would be a bad idea, but I wouldn't be surprised anymore.

    It's only a matter of time before we get shield beams.:D
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Maybe if they do a c-store DSSV.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What has you thinking that Cryptic cares about power creep or OP-ness?
    They wouldn't have nerfed rep passives into traits if they don't.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    They wouldn't have nerfed rep passives into traits if they don't.

    At this point, though I know it makes me sound kinda conspiracy theorist like, but it only makes their new ships shine even more. First they nerf rep traits, then they release the Nicro (Which I'm sure many people want, except for the people who hate it for what it is), and now they release they release this ridiculous Fed ship which is just about as OP and is a counter to the flanking system Raiders just got recently.

    People lost power and all the sudden all of these OP ships are released soon after...
  • iceeaglexiceeaglex Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    So, why are aux beams OP?
    Does OP now mean on par with tac?

    Escorts just max weapon power, pew pew, win.
    Sci have to try and get the best they can with needing weapon power to pew pew a little bit, while trying to get enough aux power to make their sci powers useful.

    Now i know the 90% of the playerbase (tac captains) like us sci captains because we can grav well enemies so they can mass pew pew, or we can heal them, so they can be glass cannons pew pew.
    But maybe sci would like some pew pew too.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    iceeaglex wrote: »
    So, why are aux beams OP?
    Does OP now mean on par with tac?

    Escorts just max weapon power, pew pew, win.
    Sci have to try and get the best they can with needing weapon power to pew pew a little bit, while trying to get enough aux power to make their sci powers useful.

    Now i know the 90% of the playerbase (tac captains) like us sci captains because we can grav well enemies so they can mass pew pew, or we can heal them, so they can be glass cannons pew pew.
    But maybe sci would like some pew pew too.

    You know that Tacs can fly Sci Vessels as well, right? From your post there, you're making it out as if they can't...

    Aux Beams on a Vesta wouldn't benefit just Sci captains...they'd potentially benefit anybody flying it.

    And with the way ships are oozing power these days, how are you having trouble overcapping Weapons while also capping Shields, Aux, and running Engines at least 75?
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    noblet wrote: »
    Dhc's arc on slow turning Vesta is the only thing that saved aux weapons from completely breaking the game. And yes, it's intentional.;)


    maybe in PvP

    In Pve there next to useless on a vesta compared to what you can do with 6 beams

    but we cant have aux beams...because none were made for the ship

    your saying aux powered beams would break PvP ?

    If so just another good reason to seperate the two into seperate games

    Then fine lower the damage against players like the flank damage is lowered against players so we can have Aux beams in PvE
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    iceeaglex wrote: »
    So, why are aux beams OP?

    Because with a full load of aux beams you could do the FAWboat thing while also doing all the sci stuff. A 130-aux Energy Siphon or Gravity Well or TSS, while also throwing out high-level DPS, and still having the inate subsystem targeting and sensor analysis available, all at the same time. As bad as the FAW Online has gotten in this game, even I'll admit that the most dedicated practitioners have given up pretty much every other capability to do that. But lets say they added an Aux Beam Array Mk 12 [acc]x2 [crth] to the game, and you popped 6 of them onto a Vesta.

    Cmdr Sci
    PH1, HE2, TSS3, GW3
    LtCmdr Tac
    TT1, APB1, APO1
    Lt Tac
    FAW1, FAW2
    Lt Eng
    EPTS1, EPTA2
    Ens Universal
    Whatever You Like 1

    Hangar: Whatever You Like
    Doffs: 2 Zemok, 2 Damage Control, Warp Core (Cleanse), Gravimetric Sci

    FAW damage as good as anyone (maybe even a bit better, since you can't boost weapons energy above 125), plus high level CC and healing science at the same time. Plus since your weapon energy could run at 15, you'd have plenty of juice for shields and engines too. The end results would be pretty messy, and thats just an off-the-top-of-my-head layout. Its a ship that sacrifices nothing to gain access to everything, all in one build. Thats a pretty good definition of OP to me.
  • iceeaglexiceeaglex Member Posts: 375 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Nope.

    You see, anytime we use our sci skills, our AUX power goes down.
    So we can't have 130 sci skills AND max weapons power.

    Just pretend its an escort for the moment. You shoot your weaps, your power goes down, your other weaps do less damage.

    Now with a sci, this happens too, you shoot your weaps, your AUX goes down, your other weaps do less damage. BUT now your sci skills do less damage too.
    Also, when you you use your sci skills, your AUX goes down, so once again your weaps do even LESS damage.

    So theres no OPness there, as everything sci captains do will make their damage go down.


    Even ignoring ALL this, what you are saying is pretty much that FAW spam is the OP part. So instead of saying we can't get AUX beams because of FAW OPness, why don't they just nerf the OP FAW spam????

    Or is it only OP if sci get a little taste of it? But if everyone else gets to use it its fine?
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Science powers normally do not lower your aux power.

    What bothers me about Aux phasers is two-fold:
    1) They are only avaialble to the Vesta. That alone gives it a notable advantage (particularly in PvE) over any other science vessel, making it questionable why you'd use some of the others at all. Sure the Vesta has a bit less hull than other SVs, but it has the aux phasers and a hangar.
    2) They remove the concepual need of making a sacrifivce between aux and weapons. That means a meaningful player decision is no longer needed, just take Aux Phasers and go all Aux.

    I would prefer if they would find a way to improve science vessel damage dealing capabilities without removing the trade-off aux and weapons, and without favoring one particular ship.
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  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Cruiser and Science Vessels online? I approve.

    Pay no attention to my sig. Totally not bias.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    iceeaglex wrote: »
    So, why are aux beams OP?
    Does OP now mean on par with tac?

    Escorts just max weapon power, pew pew, win.
    Sci have to try and get the best they can with needing weapon power to pew pew a little bit, while trying to get enough aux power to make their sci powers useful.

    Now i know the 90% of the playerbase (tac captains) like us sci captains because we can grav well enemies so they can mass pew pew, or we can heal them, so they can be glass cannons pew pew.
    But maybe sci would like some pew pew too.

    There is a balancing act that is done between weapons, science abilities, and subsystem power, and in the Aux weapons case, the Vesta itself.

    To make the best use of Energy Weapons, you need high Weapons Power. But you also need good Shield Power. Engine Power is good too. Aux Power is critical for certain SCI & ENG abilities. Having a full array of Aux Weapon selection kills this balance. You are free to max the living hell out of Aux Power, ignore Weapons altogether, and bring Shield Power to very high levels alongside it. What you then have is a ship that has a full array of Aux Weapons, Tactical options, as well as the best repair and defensive abilities being fed by the highest Aux & Shield Power levels... all while pew-pewing all the best Weapons for such a strong defensive setup.

    At least Escort-Science aligned ships like the Fleet Prometheus, Elachi S'Golth, have to make some serious decisions in Subsystem Power management. Yes, they have a LtCdr SCI station to go with the high TAC station count, but in general, they have to fly with very high Weapons Power, with Shield & Engine Power being important secondary, tertiary priorities. But if they run certain SCI abilities in that LtCdr station, they need to switch to a high Aux Power setup, or pop Batteries / Devices to go on cooldown.

    Vestas with a full myriad of Aux Weapon options absolutely BREAK this balance. Go full Aux and have the best Science, ENG abilities roaring at 100% levels of performance AND being able to run Energy Weapons (say, full options of Aux Weapons) at 100% levels of performance alongside all this... AT ALL TIMES. At least the Aux Cannons are limited by the Vesta's slower than Escort turn rates.

    If you cannot see this imbalance, I don't know what to tell you.
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  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    An Aux DBB wouldn't break balance. It's a 90 degree arc not 250. The BA unlikely would other than other Sci ships. I can't think of any Tac or Engineer that would drop their Escort, Cruiser, Battle Cruiser or Destroyer for a 6 weapon ship even though they can max aux power.

    As someone that uses a Vesta as a Torp Boat, a DBB would be ideal as it has the same arc as my torpedos.

    If they're that worried about OPness just make it unique so you can equip only one and allow it to be equipped on only Science ships so they get the love too.
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  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    iceeaglex wrote: »
    Nope.

    You see, anytime we use our sci skills, our AUX power goes down.
    So we can't have 130 sci skills AND max weapons power.

    Just pretend its an escort for the moment. You shoot your weaps, your power goes down, your other weaps do less damage.

    Now with a sci, this happens too, you shoot your weaps, your AUX goes down, your other weaps do less damage. BUT now your sci skills do less damage too.
    Also, when you you use your sci skills, your AUX goes down, so once again your weaps do even LESS damage.

    So theres no OPness there, as everything sci captains do will make their damage go down.


    Even ignoring ALL this, what you are saying is pretty much that FAW spam is the OP part. So instead of saying we can't get AUX beams because of FAW OPness, why don't they just nerf the OP FAW spam????

    Or is it only OP if sci get a little taste of it? But if everyone else gets to use it its fine?


    lol, most if not just about all sci abilities do not lower aux power. and its not just about faw.. weather you have beams or canons, being able to put out escort dps while putting out sci abilities at max power is wicked op.. to be truthfull, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen to dethrone some of the other ships in the game (scimitars). but even if a sci ability or weapons drop your power rate, at this point in the game, your power regens at a ridiculous rate..

    imagine an engineer in a vesta, with aux beam weapons, popping off grav well and whatever else, spamming beam faw, and using his built in ability to regulate power drain.

    its always been a balancing act, you have to carefully balance all your power levels to benefit the best from them. basically, the op is saying he doesn't want to do that and wants an I win button lol..
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    iceeaglex wrote: »
    Nope.

    You see, anytime we use our sci skills, our AUX power goes down.
    So we can't have 130 sci skills AND max weapons power.

    Just pretend its an escort for the moment. You shoot your weaps, your power goes down, your other weaps do less damage.

    Now with a sci, this happens too, you shoot your weaps, your AUX goes down, your other weaps do less damage. BUT now your sci skills do less damage too.
    Also, when you you use your sci skills, your AUX goes down, so once again your weaps do even LESS damage.

    So theres no OPness there, as everything sci captains do will make their damage go down.


    Even ignoring ALL this, what you are saying is pretty much that FAW spam is the OP part. So instead of saying we can't get AUX beams because of FAW OPness, why don't they just nerf the OP FAW spam????

    Or is it only OP if sci get a little taste of it? But if everyone else gets to use it its fine?

    yes, this happens to you, not the rest of us.
    sry, but there are a trillion ways around power drain already in this game...if you still have your weapon power drop below 100 or even drop any number, you are doing it wrong.
    Same with aux btw.

    you see, aux beams may not be overpowered in your hands, but they certainly would be in the hands of others.
    Go pro or go home
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    lowy1 wrote: »
    An Aux DBB wouldn't break balance. It's a 90 degree arc not 250. The BA unlikely would other than other Sci ships. I can't think of any Tac or Engineer that would drop their Escort, Cruiser, Battle Cruiser or Destroyer for a 6 weapon ship even though they can max aux power.

    As someone that uses a Vesta as a Torp Boat, a DBB would be ideal as it has the same arc as my torpedos.

    If they're that worried about OPness just make it unique so you can equip only one and allow it to be equipped on only Science ships so they get the love too.

    A full array of Aux Weapons while maxing the living hell out of Aux Power and Shield Power, while STILL keeping your energy weapons at +100% performance (because they are based on Aux Power and can be capped to more than 125, unlike Weapons Power) is OP.

    You will be flying with high powered weapons while your shield, repair, resist abilities will be performing at outrageous levels.

    How is that not imbalanced?

    The narrow-arc Aux Cannons at least forces the Vesta user to make some sort of concession in playstyle to accomodate the arcs. But full Beam Arrays or even Dual Beams, or other Aux Weapons of different types is completely OP.
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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    At this point, though I know it makes me sound kinda conspiracy theorist like, but it only makes their new ships shine even more. First they nerf rep traits, then they release the Nicro (Which I'm sure many people want, except for the people who hate it for what it is), and now they release they release this ridiculous Fed ship which is just about as OP and is a counter to the flanking system Raiders just got recently.

    People lost power and all the sudden all of these OP ships are released soon after...
    I don't think it's that reasonable to think of yourself as a conspiracy theorist. If it's possible, it's possible. I mean it's not like you're wearing a tinfoil hate and claiming that our governments are hiding aliens from us or anything.

    Not that I agree, but your hypothesis does seem to fit. And power creep is canon. Starfleet has been demonstrated to build better and more powerful ships as time goes by. As have the other factions, though granted it's to a lesser extent.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well maybe instead of assuming he is looking for an 'I Win' button he is looking for Cryptic to follow through with whatever they had in mind with the new toy of the week.

    Aux Cannons on the Vesta. OK so Starfleet Design did those and then said, eh, forget the other type of weapons that could be adapted to this technology.

    Proton Dual Heavy Cannons and the Dyson Experimental Proton Weapon and that is it for pure Proton weaponry. No other Proton weapons designed? Sure you have Protonic Polaron weapons like crazy in the Dyson Store, but are you going to buff Proton +15% and Polaron +20% and accuracy with the Tactical Auto-targeting Consoles for less dps or Polaron for 31.9% with critical chance or critical severity boosts with the Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Consoles. In the end you only have two true Proton weapons - one from a rep project and one that is stuck and can't be removed from a hybrid ship that may or may not fire depending on the mode/mood you are in.

    Don't always assume that anyone that has an idea or question about something that Cryptic came up with are looking to overwhelm the Universe. Sure some may have a ulterior motives but for many playing this game it is the 'gee golly, that seems like a neat idea - so where is the rest of it?'
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    A full array of Aux Weapons while maxing the living hell out of Aux Power and Shield Power, while STILL keeping your energy weapons at +100% performance (because they are based on Aux Power and can be capped to more than 125, unlike Weapons Power) is OP.

    You will be flying with high powered weapons while your shield, repair, resist abilities will be performing at outrageous levels.

    How is that not imbalanced?

    The narrow-arc Aux Cannons at least forces the Vesta user to make some sort of concession in playstyle to accomodate the arcs. But full Beam Arrays or even Dual Beams, or other Aux Weapons of different types is completely OP.


    How is ONE DBB on AUX Power OP. If you can only equip ONE, a Sci ship won't be OP. Being short 1-2 Weapon Slots makes up for that and most likely 1-2 Tac Console slots.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Assuming there were aux-based beam arrays available, the new best ship would be the Nebula.

    Imagine a Nebula, maxed out aux, zero in weapons, the rest shared between engines and shields.

    All its sci abilities running at max aux power, add in things like aux batteries, aux boosts from warp cores.

    Not only would it hit with its beams as hard as a dedicated beam cruiser, it'd have all its science heals at max level, as well as its offensive sci abilities running as hot as possible.

    Add in the Nebulas awesome shield multiplier and its damn good hull HP for a science ship....and it'd be the scourge of STO.
  • jtyme77jtyme77 Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Aux beams would be nice, then you could actually use the Subsystem Targeting powers. With the firing arc of the Aux Cannons, you cannot have beams in the rear be effective. The 360° AP beam array may work, though won't take advantage of the phaser tac consoles. Most escorts have 7 weapon slots compared to Vesta's 6 therefore the science abilities would only act as the 7th weapon slot as far as damage goes.

    It will be interesting to see what love Cryptic plans to give the Nebula.
    Keenan.png
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - would make the already OP ****mitard even worse.

    Only if they don't restrict them. So far the only Aux weapons are the DHC, which are only available to Feds, these are restricted to the Vesta line. Now let's take this as a base the Vesta line are sci ships, so make aux weapons restricted to sci ships only. They can already restrict things by ship type so it isn't too much of a stretch to think they could do it by ship type.

    Even if they allowed Aux DHCs available to the Rommies and KDF, even with the restriction of only being allowed on the DSD, it would be an improvement.
    jtyme77 wrote: »
    Aux beams would be nice, then you could actually use the Subsystem Targeting powers. With the firing arc of the Aux Cannons, you cannot have beams in the rear be effective. The 360° AP beam array may work, though won't take advantage of the phaser tac consoles. Most escorts have 7 weapon slots compared to Vesta's 6 therefore the science abilities would only act as the 7th weapon slot as far as damage goes..

    The omni-antiproton beam does work with TSS, it is the reason I slotted it on my Vesta. My weapons power is low compared to my aux and so anything on the back is more about increasing the chance of the proc rather than as a decent damage dealer.

    The Vesta line are sci ships not escorts so can't be compared. Like all sci ships that I have flown they have 6 weapon slots, even the DSD has 6 slots technically as the fourth front slot is a fixed weapon of an energy type that it is the only one of.
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