Scouts?

ejsphcrisp

What would Fed scouts be? Sci, Escorts?

starkaos

A Science/Escort Hybrid. The Stats should be similar to the Risian Corvette with the 21 turn rate, 0.25 Impulse Modifier, 27,000 hull, and 0.9 shield modifier with a focus on Science Bridge Officers, some sensor jamming, sensor analysis, and subsystem targeting.

ejsphcrisp

Would something like that qualify for the secondary deflector?

warmaker001b

So in other words... you're looking for a Science Vessel, guys :rolleyes:

You want a SCI-TAC slant to it? The ships are already there.

Fleet Nova
TAC Vesta
FRSV
DSD
Temporal Science

As Science Vessels, they will eventually get the Secondary Deflector when Crytpic finally decides to do it. How long will it be? Maybe soon. Maybe a few more months. For example, the Raider Flanking buff originally hit with the Breen Raider. It took almost 5 something months after the Breen Raider released for the KDF BOPs to get the Flanking Buff.

Oh, but you want a TAC first ship with a SCI slant as secondary? The ships are already there.

Fleet Prometheus sets the standard still in TAC-SCI Escorts
DSD in Destroyer mode
Mobius Temporal

talonxv

Actually once upon a time sci ships we have in game were actually scouts in games like Star Trek Legacy.

Scouts are basically small light ships with small crews that are highly maneuverable. The Nova for example was treated as a scout, as was the Oberth and the Apollo class.

mirrorchaos

essentially a mobile sensor platform and a scouts role isnt to be fast and maneuverable or even good for combat, its to get sensors readings as much as possible then jump out when detected. that it can detect a threat well outside standard sensors range and pass along that information to an allied strike team. trouble is that the ship required would have to be large enough to carry powerful power generators to feed the sensors arrays otherwise it is not likely to be as good. during the dominion war the dominion setup a massive sensors array that could scan upto 21 sectors away, now i have no idea how much space that is in measurement to a sector, but judging by how badly starfleet wanted the sensors array destroyed by risking the defiant in a near suicide mission my guess is very far in range. the station would of been drawing power, probably from solar collectors directly into massive reactors to the arrays and that gets fed to a huge computer complex for a through detailed scan result and then pushed to the communications relay which should also be as powerful as the array itself to reach distant sectors where there is a dominion presence. but a secondary role to a sensors array would be to interpret data from other scan results and fill in the missing pieces, perhaps a large iron asteroid coming through the area with a trail of dust threw off readings for upto 2 sectors that a bug ship patrol picked up on. being a hub of activity for status reports, the communications on such an array would make it a very busy place next to a communications beacon.

on this game i cant see how it would help unless its for a cutscene in a mission, each combat zone means by the time you jump in you can use "mark 1 eyeball" to navigate around until sensors pick up, a mobile platform would give advanced warning, perhaps even update a player with a small sound to check the map for enemy probes. in well working groups a scout would be useless on any of these situations and in pug groups most players would be doing their own thing to the point the scouts rather ineffective weapons will have to try deal with the probes.

ejsphcrisp

Actually, I like sketching starships (if I could find someone to render it that would be great), and I would like to give it some STO stats. Just for my own use, and maybe share in the shipyard.

ejsphcrisp

warmaker001b wrote: »

So in other words... you're looking for a Science Vessel, guys :rolleyes:

You want a SCI-TAC slant to it? The ships are already there.

Fleet Nova
TAC Vesta
FRSV
DSD
Temporal Science

As Science Vessels, they will eventually get the Secondary Deflector when Crytpic finally decides to do it. How long will it be? Maybe soon. Maybe a few more months. For example, the Raider Flanking buff originally hit with the Breen Raider. It took almost 5 something months after the Breen Raider released for the KDF BOPs to get the Flanking Buff.

Oh, but you want a TAC first ship with a SCI slant as secondary? The ships are already there.

Fleet Prometheus sets the standard still in TAC-SCI Escorts
DSD in Destroyer mode
Mobius Temporal

How would you load up a fleet prometheus? I like flying right up the enemy's aft side, with my cannons blazing.

starkaos

Actually a scout needs to be fast and maneuverable with a heavy sensors payload and hard to detect. There might be some cases where the scout has to get within 10,000 km to do their job properly. If the scout is detected, then it needs to be out of weapon range of the enemy before it can warp out.

noblet

Defiant.;)

azurianstar

Lets use Memory Alpha with the definition of Scout.

Scout ship was a lightly armed, limited-role starship type.

mirrorchaos

trouble is in trek is that other ships can detect sensors contact from other ships, even a scout ship, so no matter how much ecm you got on the scout its general location would be betrayed by its powerful sensor scan. thats why scouts need to be far outside typical range so the scout can retreat when needed. the other problem with a scout is that because all its capacity would be in being a mobile sensors platform it means its science and engineering abilities would be impaired, some smart captains would ionize the warp trail to keep from being scanned and know the scouts exact location and direction, so by ionizing it, the enemy cant locate where the ship went. this mobile sensors array probably wouldnt have such an advantage.

throw a third issue into the mix and make the problem 3d, is that some ships have powerful sensors arrays which comes with the design. the galaxy class was designed for deep space scanning as a ship of science and engineering while maintaining a respectable tactical position in diplomatic negotiations. and its been noted within trek that some ships can be at warp heading into a system and have a local area scanned before they even jump into the system. so this would also disadvantage the scout.

neoakiraii

Nova class

mirrorchaos

dunno how a nova class would be of any help in a typical scouting role, if all its sensors were designed for planetary scanning, it may have typical standard scanners elsewhere, so nothing advantagous and frankly a ship of that size wouldnt have the powerplant to scan whole sectors at a time.

coupaholic

If we were to go by names only, there is the Reconnaissance Science Vessel and the Surveillance Vesta. Both sound pretty 'scout-y' to me.

I suppose one could also argue that any ship with mask energy signature or indeed a full cloak could do the job well enough as well.

mirrorchaos

thats why romulans would be perfect for scouting roles, they dont need absurdly powerful sensors, all they need to do is get close enough and scan under cloak without revealing themselves while under cloak.

vesta is a bit too powerful as it is. the idea is as someone else put it, lightly armed and limited in scope. vesta is rather overpowered for a scouting role and why waste such potential on drawing its advantages and throwing them out?

jagdhippies

I see the reconnaissance and surveillance ships being the modest sized longer range platforms, like the vesta. I see the scouts being the little guys trolling the border with their passive sensors like picket ships. If they see something big come along they bug out quick and raise the alarm. I see the saber and centaur types doing this. We saw a centaur doing this in an episode of DS9. He was cool picking on a lonely JHAS but the second he saw more coming he flipped around and warped out.

mirrorchaos

jagdhippies wrote: »

I see the reconnaissance and surveillance ships being the modest sized longer range platforms, like the vesta. I see the scouts being the little guys trolling the border with their passive sensors like picket ships. If they see something big come along they bug out quick and raise the alarm. I see the saber and centaur types doing this. We saw a centaur doing this in an episode of DS9. He was cool picking on a lonely JHAS but the second he saw more coming he flipped around and warped out.

the saber was meant for border security vs pirates and other unsavory types, incidentally the ship used phaser banks and torpedoes, opposite cannons. so maybe older tech sabers with some kit stripped out and upgraded phaser emitters. the engineering section is quite large for a ship its size and its sensors array is a good size.

i could see a 3/1 setup with the saber, phaser on the back for defensive purposes, a torpedo tube upfront, 2 phaser bank and the rest is completely devoted to sensors.

the centaur i dont think has the ability nor the size to pull off something like becoming a mobile sensors ship, besides its tiny deflector is its one draw back to that idea and that tiny engineering section. and the reason he picked the bug ship was it was an easy target for the centaur, the centaur like the saber was also meant to deter enemy attackers. most federation captains would realize 3 vs 1 odds is long enough as it is otherwise the situation could end up a little more worse then the nx-01.

jagdhippies

mirrorchaos wrote: »

the saber was meant for border security vs pirates and other unsavory types, incidentally the ship used phaser banks and torpedoes, opposite cannons. so maybe older tech sabers with some kit stripped out and upgraded phaser emitters. the engineering section is quite large for a ship its size and its sensors array is a good size.

i could see a 3/1 setup with the saber, phaser on the back for defensive purposes, a torpedo tube upfront, 2 phaser bank and the rest is completely devoted to sensors.

the centaur i dont think has the ability nor the size to pull off something like becoming a mobile sensors ship, besides its tiny deflector is its one draw back to that idea and that tiny engineering section. and the reason he picked the bug ship was it was an easy target for the centaur, the centaur like the saber was also meant to deter enemy attackers. most federation captains would realize 3 vs 1 odds is long enough as it is otherwise the situation could end up a little more worse then the nx-01.

So basically what I said, the saber and centaur would troll the borders keeping on open eye for bad guys. If they ran into something serious that they could not handle they would run away and call in the heavy guns. Acting as picket ships, aka scouts of a sort. Meanwhile bigger and more powerful ships would do the active scanning from a distance.

mirrorchaos

jagdhippies wrote: »

So basically what I said, the saber and centaur would troll the borders keeping on open eye for bad guys. If they ran into something serious that they could not handle they would run away and call in the heavy guns. Acting as picket ships, aka scouts of a sort. Meanwhile bigger and more powerful ships would do the active scanning from a distance.

maybe i should of underlined

We saw a centaur doing this in an episode of DS9. He was cool picking on a lonely JHAS but the second he saw more coming he flipped around and warped out.

and since we are going on about scout ships, i assumed you tried using the centaur as an example as a type of ship for scouting. however it was more an act of opportunism that disappeared and high tailed it rather then noticing anything specific. had that bug ship patrol not come its very likely the centaur would of had the ship sisko was on destroyed. i dunno where border security ships and scouts have to come into it though, so what were you going on about?

jagdhippies

mirrorchaos wrote: »

maybe i should of underlined



and since we are going on about scout ships, i assumed you tried using the centaur as an example as a type of ship for scouting. however it was more an act of opportunism that disappeared and high tailed it rather then noticing anything specific. had that bug ship patrol not come its very likely the centaur would of had the ship sisko was on destroyed. i dunno where border security ships and scouts have to come into it though, so what were you going on about?

Shall I use crayons, of course I was using the centaur as an example of a scout. Scout ships would be be away from the fleets sneakily listening for enemy activity. The border would be such a place. Border patrol would be a common task for a scout.

An on screen example is when sisko's bug got jumped at the border by a scout on patrol.

You said scouts are too small for powerful sensors. I said that ships other than scouts would have the powerful sensors.

So we are basically saying the same thing.

aloishammer

ejsphcrisp wrote: »

Would something like that qualify for the secondary deflector?

Do Sci-heavy carriers get Sensor analysis? There's your answer.

mirrorchaos

jagdhippies wrote: »

Shall I use crayons, of course I was using the centaur as an example of a scout. Scout ships would be be away from the fleets sneakily listening for enemy activity. The border would be such a place. Border patrol would be a common task for a scout.

An on screen example is when sisko's bug got jumped at the border by a scout on patrol.

You said scouts are too small for powerful sensors. I said that ships other than scouts would have the powerful sensors.

So we are basically saying the same thing.

the centaur though doesnt have the space to become a scout ship, its a frigate patrolling the border, a long way from a scout. thats the problem.

jagdhippies

mirrorchaos wrote: »

the centaur though doesnt have the space to become a scout ship, its a frigate patrolling the border, a long way from a scout. thats the problem.

So you are saying the centaur is the wrong size to be a scout. I can see that. Sounds like you think a scout should around the size as a small cruiser. That is a bit bigger than what I was thinking.

ejsphcrisp

Thanks for all the responses, i will have a lot to think about, but as i said in post #7

ejsphcrisp wrote: »

Actually, I like sketching starships (if I could find someone to render it that would be great), and I would like to give it some STO stats. Just for my own use, and maybe share in the shipyard.

This is all for personal use, with a STO spin. I made this thread just for research.

jslyn

A Cruiser is a scout ship. It tells you right there in the show's opening: it is seeking out new life and new civilizations. That is a scout's job. :P

ejsphcrisp

jslyn wrote: »

A Cruiser is a scout ship. It tells you right there in the show's opening: it is seeking out new life and new civilizations. That is a scout's job. :P

So "scout" is more of a job description than an actual class of starship (the Defiant also scouted, and it was called a warship in DS9).

If there was a specific "scout" class, how would it be laid out in terms of weapon, and console slots?

And is there a program I can download to render 5 views of a starship design to look like this: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_2500_Page_Forums/ar/t2751.htm

donowick

The Nova is really a short range sci ship so it would not be a very good scout ship. That is what it was in voyager series anyways.

ejsphcrisp

donowick wrote: »

The Nova is really a short range sci ship so it would not be a very good scout ship. That is what it was in voyager series anyways.

Ok, I can see that; http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nova_class

donowick

ejsphcrisp wrote: »

Ok, I can see that; http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nova_class

Yes it says science and scout ship not meant for combat. lol I guess I don't want that lol.

jagdhippies

jslyn wrote: »

A Cruiser is a scout ship. It tells you right there in the show's opening: it is seeking out new life and new civilizations. That is a scout's job. :P

I wouldn't call that scouting. I see scouting as a mission aimed with an opponent in mind, i.e. border security or picket duty. Exploring like the Enterprises' missions is aimed at science and diplomacy. Granted, the two do overlap and the Enterprise did get assigned scouting missions several times. I can definitely see circumstances where you would want a large vessel doing a scouting mission.

Any vessel can serve as a scout and in Star Trek many different types of vessels did. In STO terms I would classify a scout ship as a small escort or raider sized vessel.