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IMO Omega costume should be MACO and vice versa

imadude3imadude3 Member Posts: 829 Arc User
why? look at todays standard battlegear (vests, boots, ETC.) and then look at the ENT MACO gear, which is obviously supposed to be an improvement of what we have in our timeline. now, listen, the arguement of "but then KDF can't get the costume!" is irrelevant here, since this is just my opinion of why the Omeag and MACO should be switched around:

1) CAMO/STEALTH: Omega is a matte color, with more color options for camo, making it much more viable for Spec Ops, and stealth, which Starfleet would certainly make use of. the MACO armor is EXTREMLY shiny, making it practicly USELESS for stealth ops'.
2) VERSATILITY/CARRYING CAPACITY: the MACO has practicly no capacity for extra equipment, while the Omega has plenty of pouches for extra mags, clips, explosive charges, grenades, rations, etc. generally, stuff needed for longer missions that may last several days, while OMEGA ops' normally only last for a single battle for example, meaning that theres no need for extra room for equipment, rations, etc. making the current MACO the optimal armor for OMEGA anti Borg ops'

so what do you think? right, or wrong?
Maintaining peace through overwhelming firepower.
Post edited by imadude3 on

Comments

  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I'm indifferent.

    If we're going to assume that MACO in 2409/2410 fills the same role and purpose that it did before the founding of the Federation...sure, it doesn't make sense.

    On the other hand, if we assume that MACO was disbanded when the Federation was formed (explaining why they were never mentioned in any of the other series), and Admiral D'Vak dusted off the name for use with Omega Force...then anything goes, really.
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
  • imadude3imadude3 Member Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jeffel82 wrote: »
    I'm indifferent.

    If we're going to assume that MACO in 2409/2410 fills the same role and purpose that it did before the founding of the Federation...sure, it doesn't make sense.

    On the other hand, if we assume that MACO was disbanded when the Federation was formed (explaining why they were never mentioned in any of the other series), and Admiral D'Vak dusted off the name for use with Omega Force...then anything goes, really.

    i don't really see why MACO would be disbanded, but who knows
    EDIT: i think the reason why you don't hear about the MACO's in the other series is because Starfleet was more focused on exploration, and the presence of soldiers on a ship might seem provocative to new species, then again, the MACO's would would've probably have been mentioned in DS9 during the dominion war
    Maintaining peace through overwhelming firepower.
  • straengestraenge Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I actually agree with this but for a different reason. It's less Maco vs Omega for me as much as it is Close/Range. To me, the Omega should be more variable close quarters specialist stats and the Maco should be Range specialist oriented. Both viisually and playstyle oriented, they just seem the opposite of each other to me.
  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    imadude3 wrote: »
    i don't really see why MACO would be disbanded, but who knows

    Just remember that the Earth Starfleet of Enterprise is a different organization than the Federation Starfleet that was seen later. There's obviously some overlap, since the Section 31 organization was said to have originated due to the "original Starfleet charter," but also existed before the Federation existed, but they're still a different group.

    On top of that MACO wasn't even a Starfleet division...it was United Earth, and that definitely doesn't exist post-Federation.

    To me, the most likely explanations are that either:

    A) MACO was disbanded after the Federation was formed; or

    B) MACO continued as some sort of non-Starfleet Earth military/security force.

    But like you said...who knows?
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jeffel82 wrote: »
    Just remember that the Earth Starfleet of Enterprise is a different organization than the Federation Starfleet that was seen later. There's obviously some overlap, since the Section 31 organization was said to have originated due to the "original Starfleet charter," but also existed before the Federation existed, but they're still a different group.

    On top of that MACO wasn't even a Starfleet division...it was United Earth, and that definitely doesn't exist post-Federation.

    To me, the most likely explanations are that either:

    A) MACO was disbanded after the Federation was formed; or

    B) MACO continued as some sort of non-Starfleet Earth military/security force.

    But like you said...who knows?

    It should be noted from Enterprise that the MACOs were separate from Starfleet. The relationship seems far more akin to the US service branches to the Navy v. Marine Corps, where they are operated under the same civil oversight, but have independent command structures. In STO the term is ued for a special forces group. So the idea this i merely a dusted off name hold the most logical weight in context of story.
  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    tekehd wrote: »
    So the idea this i merely a dusted off name hold the most logical weight in context of story.

    Agreed.

    /10chars
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The fact that STO suggests that Starfleet reinstated a corps named "MACO" is highly offensive to the idea of Starfleet itself. They could have just as well clled them "US Marines" or "Napoleonic Guard". The MACOs in ENT were part of the united earth military. Both, the government of united earth and the military were disbanded after the UFP was formed. Starfleet absorbed all military functions into it's service while not being a military organization. While other memberworlds of the UFP might still have a planetary defense force of limited size, Earth doesn't, it's all Starfleet. There might be a UFP security/police left that is unaffiliated with Starfleet, but we never see much of them outside two scenes in the TMP movies and DS9 highly suggested that Earth does not have a significant organization tasked with security/defense other than Starfleet.

    Since Earth and humanity are supposed to have evolved past the need for militaries and armed conflict in Star Trek, naming the special task force "MACOs" is in fact quite stuperrific. Their visuals however are rather nice and resemble Starfleet space suits. Bright, representative. Starfleet officers are more akin to (paramilitary)police officers than soldiers, the STF akin to some kind of SWAT security detail rather than marines. They should reserve the MACO refrence for Lobi/Lockbox retro ENT gear and rename the Starfleet omega branch simple "Special Task Force" (Or "Hazard Team" :D). The OMEGA cross-faction gear never made much sense to me, but a lot of the games' visuals don't :D

    That being said, I would however welcome the stun baton as a melee weapon for Starfleet :)
    lFC4bt2.gif
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  • ricorosebudricorosebud Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Why does it matter what it's called? Just use the other.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Omega should be the scalpel if you will and MACO should be the ax or sledge hammer and splitting maul if you will

    MACO should have an EV capability, these would be the guys that are boarding parties, when the objective has to be destroyed over night . So better AOE, Damage Resistance, and sustained damage.

    Omega, would be those sneaky TRIBBLE operating in small teams. So Stealth, Spike Damage, debuffs/traps etc.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    For the same reason Cavalry in the U.S. Army still wear spurs on their boots, despite the fact we don't ride horses into battle in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Tradition and recognition and respect of history.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Technically I absolutely agree that the Omega suit visuals fit MUCH more what I would consider "Maco armor/MACO Equipment" more then the actual MACO set visuals.

    But I think the "KDF can't have them" argument is everything but irrelevant. I like having them on my KDF since the Omega visuals are great, the MACO visuals suck and we have little costume choice already on KDF side, and even less GOOD LOOKING costume choices. ^^.
    jeffel82 wrote: »
    I'm indifferent.

    If we're going to assume that MACO in 2409/2410 fills the same role and purpose that it did before the founding of the Federation...sure, it doesn't make sense.

    On the other hand, if we assume that MACO was disbanded when the Federation was formed (explaining why they were never mentioned in any of the other series), and Admiral D'Vak dusted off the name for use with Omega Force...then anything goes, really.

    Why SHOULD they fit another role?
    Its not like I'd exept a "US MARINE" to be the description of a soup citches chef in 100 years.

    Also the STO tie in novel "needs of the many" novel is pretty clear about the MACOs role and history.
  • imadude3imadude3 Member Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Technically I absolutely agree that the Omega suit visuals fit MUCH more what I would consider "Maco armor/MACO Equipment" more then the actual MACO set visuals.

    But I think the "KDF can't have them" argument is everything but irrelevant. I like having them on my KDF since the Omega visuals are great, the MACO visuals suck and we have little costume choice already on KDF side, and even less GOOD LOOKING costume choices. ^^.



    Why SHOULD they fit another role?
    Its not like I'd exept a "US MARINE" to be the description of a soup citches chef in 100 years.

    Also the STO tie in novel "needs of the many" novel is pretty clear about the MACOs role and history.

    oh no, the KDF is completley relevant for this subject in general, just not for this thread since it's about the MACO
    Maintaining peace through overwhelming firepower.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    lowy1 wrote: »
    Omega should be the scalpel if you will and MACO should be the ax or sledge hammer and splitting maul if you will

    MACO should have an EV capability, these would be the guys that are boarding parties, when the objective has to be destroyed over night . So better AOE, Damage Resistance, and sustained damage.

    Omega, would be those sneaky TRIBBLE operating in small teams. So Stealth, Spike Damage, debuffs/traps etc.

    This is how I see it. So the sets make sense as they are. :P
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