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Why do 8472 weapons need to be remodulated?

tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
Granted, there isn't a precedent for 8472 ground weapons in the show, but I was wondering why we have to remodulate weapons based on 8472 energy weapons?

As I understand it, whatever biotechnological weapons 8472 developed, the Borg are completely unable to protect themselves from with their remodulating shields.

So that means by using the organic fluidic weapons (the one from the lobi store and the energy stream weapons), we should not have to remodulate those, as they are 8472 biotechnology.

But when I used mine on the Borg, they adapted!

And at that point, I remembered a cutscene I saw earlier with an 8472 Commander blasting Borg drones with a hand weapon.
There were around 5 firings , killing a group with each shot.
If the Borg were truly capable of adapting, the last 3 groups wouldn't have been killed by his weapon.

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Post edited by tilarta on

Comments

  • galanis2814galanis2814 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Reason one: Because Video Games.

    Reason two: The Borg have been fighting the Undine for ages now, do you really think they're still entirely incapable of adapting? Maybe that commander was just wearing three-piece Omega gear, or the biotech equivalent thereof.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    we are not using Undine weapons we are using weapons adapted to fight the Undine, which were created originally using Borg tech. That is why the Borg adapt to them, as understand it anyway..
  • galanis2814galanis2814 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    No they're talking about the Fluidic Antiproton weapons that come from the lockbox and the lobi store. They are very clearly Undine biotech weapons.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    No they're talking about the Fluidic Antiproton weapons that come from the lockbox and the lobi store. They are very clearly Undine biotech weapons.

    Ah then I am not going to hazard a guess.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I suppose it would be "too good" if these weapons would not require remodulation at all, but they could at least give them a bonus. but maybe that isn't possible right now with the Borg adaptation code?

    I can only guess. I think it would have been a perfect twist for these weapons.
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  • nathraelnathrael Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It's probably a coding issue. The weapons are qualified by energy type for adaptation, and the code probably tags the energy type. So in order to have the weapons be immune to adaptation they would have to either tag on "fluidic" (which would open up another host of problems-damage bonuses and all) or modify the tagging in some other way.

    There is also of course the balance angle. It's also entirely possible that the 8472 ground weapons may be partially psionic in nature, and/or linked to the reality paradigm that Species 8472 comes from, so when used by another race (Though frankly that concept is funny) they are not quite as effective as if used by a member of Species 8472, hence the Borg can adapt to them.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    in-universe reason: You don't have the organs to auto-remodulate your weapons like the Undine most likely have.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well, keep in mind that the Borg are able to assimilate Undine at this point, so they may well have learned to adapt.
  • jimtkirkjimtkirk Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2014
    tilarta wrote: »
    Granted, there isn't a precedent for 8472 ground weapons in the show, but I was wondering why we have to remodulate weapons based on 8472 energy weapons?

    As I understand it, whatever biotechnological weapons 8472 developed, the Borg are completely unable to protect themselves from with their remodulating shields.

    So that means by using the organic fluidic weapons (the one from the lobi store and the energy stream weapons), we should not have to remodulate those, as they are 8472 biotechnology.

    But when I used mine on the Borg, they adapted!

    And at that point, I remembered a cutscene I saw earlier with an 8472 Commander blasting Borg drones with a hand weapon.
    There were around 5 firings , killing a group with each shot.
    If the Borg were truly capable of adapting, the last 3 groups wouldn't have been killed by his weapon.

    The real question is why ARE WE STILL HAVING TO REMODULATE WEAPONS AT ALL? Seriously, does anyone honestly believe that after all this time Starfleet, the KDF, and the Romulans would not have developed a weapon that automatically remodulates to combat the Borg? To think they would not is simply an insult to common sense. lmao!
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jimtkirk wrote: »
    The real question is why ARE WE STILL HAVING TO REMODULATE WEAPONS AT ALL? Seriously, does anyone honestly believe that after all this time Starfleet, the KDF, and the Romulans would not have developed a weapon that automatically remodulates to combat the Borg? To think they would not is simply an insult to common sense. lmao!

    Except the Borg always adapt eventually, its what they do.
    In fact, we are a step ahead of them, because we now have the tech to remodulate any time they adapt.
    Throughout the series and movies Starfleet couldn't even do that.
    They had a limited amount of shots, limited amount of permutations with their existing tech.
    Which is why Picard was going to destroy the Enterprise E in First Conact, as they had used up every possible setting on their weapons and lost the ability to effectively fight the Borg.
  • adorenkoadorenko Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    tilarta wrote: »
    Granted, there isn't a precedent for 8472 ground weapons in the show, but I was wondering why we have to remodulate weapons based on 8472 energy weapons?

    As I understand it, whatever biotechnological weapons 8472 developed, the Borg are completely unable to protect themselves from with their remodulating shields.

    So that means by using the organic fluidic weapons (the one from the lobi store and the energy stream weapons), we should not have to remodulate those, as they are 8472 biotechnology.

    But when I used mine on the Borg, they adapted!

    And at that point, I remembered a cutscene I saw earlier with an 8472 Commander blasting Borg drones with a hand weapon.
    There were around 5 firings , killing a group with each shot.
    If the Borg were truly capable of adapting, the last 3 groups wouldn't have been killed by his weapon.

    The borg's problem with species 8472 was in assimilating their biology into the collective. Plus these weapons through the rep system are meant to combat species 8472 not necessarily the Borg.
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  • jimtkirkjimtkirk Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2014
    Except the Borg always adapt eventually, its what they do.
    In fact, we are a step ahead of them, because we now have the tech to remodulate any time they adapt.
    Throughout the series and movies Starfleet couldn't even do that.
    They had a limited amount of shots, limited amount of permutations with their existing tech.
    Which is why Picard was going to destroy the Enterprise E in First Conact, as they had used up every possible setting on their weapons and lost the ability to effectively fight the Borg.

    Laughing harder than before!!!!! Seriously? You're using the shows/movies as an example? This is STO.... not the real Star Trek!:P
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Except the Borg always adapt eventually, its what they do.
    In fact, we are a step ahead of them, because we now have the tech to remodulate any time they adapt.
    Throughout the series and movies Starfleet couldn't even do that.
    They had a limited amount of shots, limited amount of permutations with their existing tech.
    Which is why Picard was going to destroy the Enterprise E in First Conact, as they had used up every possible setting on their weapons and lost the ability to effectively fight the Borg.

    Yeah, 'cause they were too stupid to replicate an M2 Browning or hand grenades (or overload a phaser). :rolleyes:

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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Theres never any indication that the Borg are unable to adapt against firearms or explosives.
    Yes, Picard used a holographic tommy gun with holodeck safeties turned off, but he only killed two drones with it.
  • rarebear1rarebear1 Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    It actually would work it deal tramua instead of burns there are instances where kilgons killed several borg with a bat'el sword.
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  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Theres never any indication that the Borg are unable to adapt against firearms or explosives.
    Yes, Picard used a holographic tommy gun with holodeck safeties turned off, but he only killed two drones with it.

    It was stated canonically that they can't adapt to physical/kinetic firearms. Starfleet had manufactured firearms, but decided to use multiadaptative phasers that continuously cycling frequency instead, which was stated to never need remodulation because their frequency changes constantly already.

    At this point in time, remodulation is already obsolete and should not be in game. It's merely Cryptic refusing to follow Star Trek canon.
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah, but if they don't make them remodulate, then we have a "god" weapon that everyone will walk around using in the borg fights negating any weapon with the [borg] attribute on it.
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    noblet wrote: »
    It was stated canonically that they can't adapt to physical/kinetic firearms. Starfleet had manufactured firearms, but decided to use multiadaptative phasers that continuously cycling frequency instead, which was stated to never need remodulation because their frequency changes constantly already.

    At this point in time, remodulation is already obsolete and should not be in game. It's merely Cryptic refusing to follow Star Trek canon.

    It has never been stated canonically.
    Starfleet designed one weapon, the TR-116, but it was not for the Borg.
    The TR-116 was designed for use in environments with dampening fields or radiogenic conditions, but was passed over in favour of the Regenerative Phasers.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Reason one: Because Video Games.

    Reason two: The Borg have been fighting the Undine for ages now, do you really think they're still entirely incapable of adapting? Maybe that commander was just wearing three-piece Omega gear, or the biotech equivalent thereof.

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    reason 1: the cutscene showed a heroic moment before the 8472 was captured, a last stand if you will, even if the borg had adapted, they cant adapt around kinetic damage, that means 8472 claws or chunks of buildings or alcoves, whatever works. it was designed like that for storyline advancement.

    reason 2: borg do not understand what they can not assimilate, they can temporarily protect themselves, but only complete assimilation of whoever uses these weapons and knows of how they work, that way the borg can adapt around it. since the 8472 never designed these weapons but rather alpha/beta quadrant races, and since its easy to overwhelm these races with these weapons on some distant outpost, the information quickly gets shared to the collective and a countermeasure is devised.
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  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    tilarta wrote: »
    Granted, there isn't a precedent for 8472 ground weapons in the show, but I was wondering why we have to remodulate weapons based on 8472 energy weapons?

    wat?? we need to re-modulate weapons to fight the undine???? lol, its the first time i read this. Well, i just did some stfs (actually 2 of em, and im done with the undine rep, i dont want anymore) and never needed to remodulate my weapons lol.

    But if thats the case, it is another stupid fail from cryptic, as so many others. lol.
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jimtkirk wrote: »
    The real question is why ARE WE STILL HAVING TO REMODULATE WEAPONS AT ALL? Seriously, does anyone honestly believe that after all this time Starfleet, the KDF, and the Romulans would not have developed a weapon that automatically remodulates to combat the Borg? To think they would not is simply an insult to common sense. lmao!

    Because if you delete that characteristic from the Borg, we should just delete all the Borg content from the game. That is the most main feature of the Borg. And it will be until they are eliminated for good. It doesnt matter if has passed 200 years, the Borg "evolve" constantly. So, its easy to assume they can adapt even if starfleet and the other factions developed methods to combat the borg. It will be always like that, and it is the way it is supossed to be.
  • sudonamisudonami Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I am also a bit curious as to why i have to remodulate the plasma flame thrower. Last i checked plasma fire doesn't operate on a set frequency that is adaptable too.
  • ksathra2ksathra2 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jimtkirk wrote: »
    The real question is why ARE WE STILL HAVING TO REMODULATE WEAPONS AT ALL? Seriously, does anyone honestly believe that after all this time Starfleet, the KDF, and the Romulans would not have developed a weapon that automatically remodulates to combat the Borg? To think they would not is simply an insult to common sense. lmao!

    They do have a weapon for that and sadly it's owned by another game company and it was called the I-mod.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Well, keep in mind that the Borg are able to assimilate 8472 at this point, so they may well have learned to adapt.

    In my opinion, that was not a true assimilation, it was a brute force approach.
    Since 8472 will reject nanites, I assume the Borg didn't use them and directly implanted the neural control circuitry into the brain of their captive.
    And in the pre-season 9 version of the mission, it mentions that the assimilation is not stable, the control mechanism will fail and their captive will regain their individuality very soon.
    And then I imagine the commander be quite violent at expressing their displeasure at their treatment.....
    It was basically a desperation move by the Borg, they hoped by doing this, they would learn something, anything that would enable them to fight 8472.
    But since we've never seen them develop an appropriate defense, I assume the commander had been resisting their control mentally and was hiding any information that could be useful to the Borg.
    Which you'd expect of a powerful psychic race.
    adorenko wrote: »
    Plus these weapons through the rep system are meant to combat species 8472 not necessarily the Borg.

    I am not referring to the Rep weapons.
    I would expect those to still need remodulating, since they're still standard phasers and disruptors with some fancy extra tech added.

    The Fluidic weapons are pure 8472 biotechnology with no canon tech in them whatsoever.

    Ingame, species 8472 use a unique variant of antiproton damage.
    But in the series, my theory was that it was a powerful bioelectric shock, strong enough to sever the molecular bonds of corporeal matter.
    It's basic electrical theory no matter how powerful the capacitor, eventually it'll reach capacity and burn out.
    And that's why I assume the Borg were vulnerable to 8472, their modulation shields burned out as it tried to absorb the energy of the shot.
    Also, there's subtle references here and there that the Borg are vulnerable to electric shock, it can disable their implants.
    And even the 8472 Bioship gives the Borg Drone trying to assimilate it minor electric shocks as a defensive mechanism.
    You see the Drone pushed back each time he gets shocked and his shields don't adapt.
    Starfleet designed one weapon, the TR-116, but it was not for the Borg.

    While the TR-116a was never used in canon on the Borg, there was a novel which mentions it in relation to the Borg.

    As an experiment, the weapon was issued to the armory of a particular Starfleet vessel to test it's feasibility as a field weapon.
    The Borg encountered this vessel and beamed their drones aboard to take over the vessel.
    Only to encounter security squads equipped with bullet firing sniper rifles!
    Every single Drone on the vessel was systematically eliminated as the security teams swept through the ship.

    And ingame, I have used it on the Borg with great regularity.
    They do not adapt to it at all.
    If only it was a level scaling weapon (it's capped at level 27 dps), it would be the perfect weapon for Borg ground stfs. :(

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    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
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