So I hear from Gekko he is planning on a new skill tree because not everyone understood.
And I must add I'm amongst them who can't figure it all out and as long they don't translate it, it's for me a battle trying to understand it all because english is not my main language.
So I would welcome a simpler Skill Tree and as he proposed in stoked radio I think it would have merit, He talked if I understand Gekko correctly about just three choices either you beginner, Advanced or Elite at a function. so no more sci babble just phasers or cannons and you can set it on elite or something in that matter.
So you as a player gut any observations or maybe Idea's for Gekko ??
Discuss please ...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Honestly I would simply retool all values to have a base value equal to that of a character with 84 skill points in it (6 out of 9 boxes) and remove the skill tree completely.
Then simply roll out a new 'trait lite' system so every say, 5 or 10 levels you pick from a few options to get the effect of +15 to one of the current skills.
The added benefit being you can then allow for progression past max level where you simple accrue more +5 to a skill bonuses.
The downside to such a thing is that it adds yet another layer of character customization to a game that already has, IMHO, too many layers for the casual MMO market demographic.
So no, just remove it. Set it so everyone has the equivalent of 84 points in everything at top level and just throw it in the trash.
So I hear from Gekko he is planning on a new skill tree because not everyone understood.
And I must add I'm amongst them who can't figure it all out and as long they don't translate it, it's for me a battle trying to understand it all because english is not my main language.
So I would welcome a simpler Skill Tree and as he proposed in stoked radio I think it would have merit, He talked if I understand Gekko correctly about just three choices either you beginner, Advanced or Elite at a function. so no more sci babble just phasers or cannons and you can set it on elite or something in that matter.
So you as a player gut any observations or maybe Idea's for Gekko ??
Discuss please ...
I could not disagree more with the idea that skills need simplifying.
The current system is not arcane, but does require a bare minimum of effort from the player to optimise things.
I see absolutely no issue with the game requiring some minimum level of effort from the player.
I see way too many things being changed so players don't have to think.
This again? Why? Why is this needed? It doesn't get any simpler than what we currently have. What the hell would be the damn point? Are we gonna cater to Pakleds or something?
"This make things go boom!"
"This make you strong!"
"This make you go!"
Separating ground and space into separate trees would be welcome, though.
There is nothing really wrong with the current skill tree, other than so few points to spend, and once spent there is no other means of advancement outside of gear, and rep traits for which has been drastically limited.
This again? Why? Why is this needed? It doesn't get any simpler than what we currently have. What the hell would be the damn point? Are we gonna cater to Pakleds or something?
"This make things go boom!"
"This make you strong!"
"This make you go!"
Separating ground and space into separate trees would be welcome, though.
wait..wait.. you'll have to slow down a little... so the first one?...
I see way too many things being changed so players don't have to think.
^this. keep it as it is, as f.e. it helped me a lot to evolve 3 totally different skillspecs out of a single starting-build (rom with torps only, klink vaper, altered fed).
if there'd be too much simplifying it probably would have bad influence on any diversity there is and another downside-choice would fall.
one thinks like: "hell yeah, just give us all the super-zippy-autopiloted-uber-carrier-a2b-ebc-shuttle classified-q-cubes with build in ap-i-win and cpt pwnu, so we finally can bust the last hamster all together" :rolleyes:
This again? Why? Why is this needed? It doesn't get any simpler than what we currently have. What the hell would be the damn point? Are we gonna cater to Pakleds or something?
"This make things go boom!"
"This make you strong!"
"This make you go!"
Separating ground and space into separate trees would be welcome, though.
This is needed because it is part of the old system witch they trying to get rid off. also a majority off players complaining because it's just not clear what to select and what not. Even with building guides people have question marks or just say : Huh I don't get it I just set both shields skill at full and my ship get blown up like I don't have shields.
But most inportant I think it's part off the powercreep and they want to lose it...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
This is needed because it is part of the old system witch they trying to get rid off. also a majority off players complaining because it's just not clear what to select and what not. Even with building guides people have question marks or just say : Huh I don't get it I just set both shields skill at full and my ship get blown up like I don't have shields.
But most inportant I think it's part off the powercreep and they want to lose it...
I'm sorry, but none of that makes any sense.
The skill tree, as is, has next to nothing to do with power creep.
And with the new patrol escort, cryptic have absolutely no right anymore to say they're concerned with power creep.
You say a 'majority' of players find it all a bit too difficult.
What evidence do you have for such an assertion?
Quite frankly, until anyone gets a serious handle on the game they will blow up.
And then, if they stick at it and try to learn from things, there comes a time when they rarely blow up.
This ridiculous drive to simplification is turning what should be an intellectually, as well as vicerally, enagaging game into a facebook clicky game.
I rarely say this, because its usually said with contempt, but this time it is the point....
The skill tree, as is, has next to nothing to do with power creep.
And with the new patrol escort, cryptic have absolutely no right anymore to say they're concerned with power creep.
You say a 'majority' of players find it all a bit too difficult.
What evidence do you have for such an assertion?
Quite frankly, until anyone gets a serious handle on the game they will blow up.
And then, if they stick at it and try to learn from things, there comes a time when they rarely blow up.
This ridiculous drive to simplification is turning what should be an intellectually, as well as viscerally, engaging game into a facebook clicky game.
I rarely say this, because its usually said with contempt, but this time it is the point....
...learn to play.
Because click to win is just boring.
Don't be mad at me, sir I didn't say it for a camera you watch stoked and you know what he said and about part of the power creep I don't know for sure but I read it somewhere written by a dev that the skill tree had to change to reverse the power creep,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
This is needed because it is part of the old system witch they trying to get rid off. also a majority off players complaining because it's just not clear what to select and what not. Even with building guides people have question marks or just say : Huh I don't get it I just set both shields skill at full and my ship get blown up like I don't have shields.
But most inportant I think it's part off the powercreep and they want to lose it...
actually that is a good example:
hypothetically i'd say they may look at their skills and not consider things like powerlevels. survivability depends a lot on powerlevels in combo with skills (+boff powers, cpts choice, gear, ship-stats, etc.).
like some always say: it's not rocket-science already, so one may better gets his things sorted before complaining (i know well, did myself just as many others).
the core of the problem not is the complexity to me, it's the simple fact that the game not teaches its players anything about underlying mechanics. good example for a game for "educating" players to play the game is the first operation flashpoint and its campaign. in there u've been led step by step to understand the possibilities and the key-functions of the game (not a mmo, i know. but still...).
edit:
i really don't think the skilltree is part of the powercreep! it more is one of the things that still stand against it, because u always have to make a win/loose choice.
Don't be mad at me, sir I didn't say it for a camera you watch stoked and you know what he said and about part of the power creep I don't know for sure but I read it somewhere written by a dev that the skill tree had to change to reverse the power creep,
Well, thats a ridiculous statement from the dev.
The skills tree has so tiny an influence on power creep as to be almost negligible.
It's not all bad if I remember this correct he want it to look like the skill placement is now for the rep system where you can switch stuff on when you gonna be on the ground and switch it back to space once you are out there.
Hell I guess we just have to wait for a dev blog explaining it all if it comes. but from what he told so far I do agree with him it's too many numbers and too little explaining on how to use it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
lol?..... u asked for discussion. i do drop points with examples and xplanations on my opinions (or am i wrong?).
now have a good night and njoy geko's next clue while all the things that would be worth to get revisited are being left out...
This again? Why? Why is this needed? It doesn't get any simpler than what we currently have. What the hell would be the damn point? Are we gonna cater to Pakleds or something?
"This make things go boom!"
"This make you strong!"
"This make you go!"
Separating ground and space into separate trees would be welcome, though.
This made me LOL but it sounds like this is exactly whats happening.
Gods I hope not. I was not impressed with that system. Seemed too restrictive to me.
Too restrictive is not even beginning to describe it. Especially when you take a D&D game. Just check DDO and you'll see the difference. You can multiclass, make a really useless character (or a very powerful one), make a class totally unique... For example, on DDO, I was playing a melee half orc rogue/monk with a staff and barbarian racial perks, and it was working well. And I was planning to make a necromancer monk fighting with his fists in melee.
In NWO, you can pretty much take everything, not multiclass, and not choose your paragon path. Well, now you can I heard, between 2 of them (big woop). And you can't choose which weapon you use, or anything else.
But at least you can choose your race.
So yeah, I really hope it will never happen to STO.
The skills system is easy to understand in this game, you should of seen early Star Wars Galaxies, now that was a skill system that took work to understand.
Be interesting how they would once again rework the skill tree. Given that they split ground and space traits, perhaps they should go back to having separate space and ground tree pools.
First thing I like to see is skill points go from a flat cost to an exponential cost, that way you get more "bang for your buck". Right now, maximizing a skill isn't that important given the +10 for a skill vs those same points can go into other skills.
Skills actually show how much they improve an ability. Like Ship HPs, how about actually telling me how much HPs I gain if I invest.
Balancing offense vs defense. If you put points into offense, you should have a weak defense, and vice versa.
All skills in a tree have value. Like with the current tree, why invest in skills like stealth and threat if they have no real worth?
Another possibility is cross-professioning. Like giving Engineers and Science the chance to learn weapons training and unlocking certain weapons or martial arts, at the expense of giving up their profession. Or giving Tacticals and Engineers the ability to heal with Tricorders.
I thought about it and why not just remove it? It's not very exciting or interesting. Just a lot of poorly explained passive bonuses. It's not as though we are in shortage of customization options. We have traits, bridge officers, weapons and items, reputation powers, anything else I forgot. All of which are more exciting then the skills we can get.
Comments
I'm not formilliar with Never Winter did it for about 10 mins and I quit because I didn't like it to much, it was not well explained and lot unclear..
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Then simply roll out a new 'trait lite' system so every say, 5 or 10 levels you pick from a few options to get the effect of +15 to one of the current skills.
The added benefit being you can then allow for progression past max level where you simple accrue more +5 to a skill bonuses.
The downside to such a thing is that it adds yet another layer of character customization to a game that already has, IMHO, too many layers for the casual MMO market demographic.
So no, just remove it. Set it so everyone has the equivalent of 84 points in everything at top level and just throw it in the trash.
I could not disagree more with the idea that skills need simplifying.
The current system is not arcane, but does require a bare minimum of effort from the player to optimise things.
I see absolutely no issue with the game requiring some minimum level of effort from the player.
I see way too many things being changed so players don't have to think.
"This make things go boom!"
"This make you strong!"
"This make you go!"
Separating ground and space into separate trees would be welcome, though.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
wait..wait.. you'll have to slow down a little... so the first one?...
jk lol
^this. keep it as it is, as f.e. it helped me a lot to evolve 3 totally different skillspecs out of a single starting-build (rom with torps only, klink vaper, altered fed).
if there'd be too much simplifying it probably would have bad influence on any diversity there is and another downside-choice would fall.
one thinks like: "hell yeah, just give us all the super-zippy-autopiloted-uber-carrier-a2b-ebc-shuttle classified-q-cubes with build in ap-i-win and cpt pwnu, so we finally can bust the last hamster all together" :rolleyes:
guess i better go to bed now, sry for mood
This is needed because it is part of the old system witch they trying to get rid off. also a majority off players complaining because it's just not clear what to select and what not. Even with building guides people have question marks or just say : Huh I don't get it I just set both shields skill at full and my ship get blown up like I don't have shields.
But most inportant I think it's part off the powercreep and they want to lose it...
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I'm sorry, but none of that makes any sense.
The skill tree, as is, has next to nothing to do with power creep.
And with the new patrol escort, cryptic have absolutely no right anymore to say they're concerned with power creep.
You say a 'majority' of players find it all a bit too difficult.
What evidence do you have for such an assertion?
Quite frankly, until anyone gets a serious handle on the game they will blow up.
And then, if they stick at it and try to learn from things, there comes a time when they rarely blow up.
This ridiculous drive to simplification is turning what should be an intellectually, as well as vicerally, enagaging game into a facebook clicky game.
I rarely say this, because its usually said with contempt, but this time it is the point....
...learn to play.
Because click to win is just boring.
Don't be mad at me, sir I didn't say it for a camera you watch stoked and you know what he said and about part of the power creep I don't know for sure but I read it somewhere written by a dev that the skill tree had to change to reverse the power creep,
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
actually that is a good example:
hypothetically i'd say they may look at their skills and not consider things like powerlevels. survivability depends a lot on powerlevels in combo with skills (+boff powers, cpts choice, gear, ship-stats, etc.).
like some always say: it's not rocket-science already, so one may better gets his things sorted before complaining (i know well, did myself just as many others).
the core of the problem not is the complexity to me, it's the simple fact that the game not teaches its players anything about underlying mechanics. good example for a game for "educating" players to play the game is the first operation flashpoint and its campaign. in there u've been led step by step to understand the possibilities and the key-functions of the game (not a mmo, i know. but still...).
edit:
i really don't think the skilltree is part of the powercreep! it more is one of the things that still stand against it, because u always have to make a win/loose choice.
Well, thats a ridiculous statement from the dev.
The skills tree has so tiny an influence on power creep as to be almost negligible.
Hell I guess we just have to wait for a dev blog explaining it all if it comes. but from what he told so far I do agree with him it's too many numbers and too little explaining on how to use it.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
i agree as well. but i'd rather see those numbers explained than things like cookie-cutters everywhere
It took me a month to figure out the new skill system, I must add I do not play everyday so that's easily done ;-)
But instead of bombing this thread think of it if it does come to this, what powers can you put to gather and what powers can you remove ?
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Doubtful, since that system involves Wizards of the Coast's D&D 4.0 system as its foundation.
now have a good night and njoy geko's next clue while all the things that would be worth to get revisited are being left out...
Gods I hope not. I was not impressed with that system. Seemed too restrictive to me.
R.I.P
This made me LOL but it sounds like this is exactly whats happening.
In NWO, you can pretty much take everything, not multiclass, and not choose your paragon path. Well, now you can I heard, between 2 of them (big woop). And you can't choose which weapon you use, or anything else.
But at least you can choose your race.
So yeah, I really hope it will never happen to STO.
First thing I like to see is skill points go from a flat cost to an exponential cost, that way you get more "bang for your buck". Right now, maximizing a skill isn't that important given the +10 for a skill vs those same points can go into other skills.
Skills actually show how much they improve an ability. Like Ship HPs, how about actually telling me how much HPs I gain if I invest.
Balancing offense vs defense. If you put points into offense, you should have a weak defense, and vice versa.
All skills in a tree have value. Like with the current tree, why invest in skills like stealth and threat if they have no real worth?
Another possibility is cross-professioning. Like giving Engineers and Science the chance to learn weapons training and unlocking certain weapons or martial arts, at the expense of giving up their profession. Or giving Tacticals and Engineers the ability to heal with Tricorders.