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Idea: Federation Raider with Holografic Battle Cloack

preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
Hello Guys,
Hello Ladys,

since the FLANK Upgrade for Klingon Raider,
Federation Players only have access to the Breen Plesh Brek Raider
and this ships lacks a Cloack in general.

The Federation don´t have "Raider" classified Starships,
and they are not allowed to use a Cloacking Devices of any Kind.
( only on a few selected ships )


Reason for that is the "Treaty of Algeron"
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron
The Treaty of Algeron, signed in 2311 by the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets, prohibited Federation cloaking devices. This agreement has been a source of controversy in Starfleet, where some officers believed it severely limited tactical options and put the Federation at a disadvantage.

Although the Federation initially agreed to follow the treaty after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, in early 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships.

What a Dilemma ...



BUT, there are other ways to Cloack, and no i am not talking about "Mask Energy Signature"

The Cloack Idea for Federation "Raider" is based on a non canon Ship
the "U.S.S. Incursion (NX-74808)" from the Games "Armada 2" and "Away Team"
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Incursion
i just put the U.S.S. Incursion Link in this post as a Reference
i DO NOT want THIS ship in Star Trek Online

This Post is about a potential Holografic Cloacking Ability
for a future Section 31 Ship or something

This Ship got a Holografic Cloacking Device for reconnaissance and Intelligence purposes

---> best part (for Cryptic) this Ability is already implemented in the Game
(Hangar Pet - Romulan Drone Ship)


For Players it could work like this:

-- You would have to select a Enemy Ship "click" on "Holo-Cloack" and
-- then you would change the appearance into the same Faction
-- for the Enemy this ship would become a Friendly target (like scramble sensors)
Just in case anyone from cryptic is actually picking this up,
PLEASE Make it a BUILD IN Ability NOT a Console

My (open for discussion) Ability Idea:

[Combat Holografic Cloack]

Starship Stealth

=> Shield System offline OR minus 20 Weapon/Shield/Engine Power

Change appearance into selected Enemy Faction Vessel

+ 4975 Stealth
+ 50 % Defense
After dropping cloak: All Damage + 10% for TRIBBLE seconds
( not as much Plus Damage as the other Faction, open for debate ^_^ )
Another way of Comat Holo Cloack could work like the "Photonic Displacement Console"
a holografic Ship warps in, Fires on you (no Damage) ->Holografic Warpcore Breach (no damage)
the Hologram flies throw the explosion, and becomes you in disguise

Okay Guys, it is time for a Debate !!

What are you thinking about that?
Post edited by preiko on
«1345

Comments

  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    That thing is fugly.
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    That thing is fugly.

    Yes, i totally agree with you ^_^

    I don´t want the ship either

    what do you think about the Holo-Cloack ?
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    1. Cryptic can't use ships from other games.
    2. The idea of a Federation raider is stupid.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    A) Belongs to Activision, so not happening due to copyright reasons.

    B) Federation isn't supposed to use cloaks. What Cryptic missed with the Defiant NX-74205 is that Starfleet had to get special permission from the RSE to have a cloaking device on her. The Sao Paolo didn't get one, nor did any of the other Defiant-class ships. I don't have a clue why the Avenger is cloak-capable, and the Galaxy X belongs to an alternate timeline.

    C) Starfleet's already got more unique ships than both of the other factions put together. We've got something for practically every playstyle imaginable. Quit trying to raid the other factions for what little uniqueness they still have. That goes for every Fed, not just the OP.

    You want a raider? Roll a KDF and fly a Bird-of-Prey.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well at least in the case of the avenger it only CAN use a cloak, it does not have one by default.

    But I do like the idea of introducing holographic camo into the game, though not as a faction/ship specific ability.

    In fact something like a holographic masking system would be fantastic as a Tier 5 reward for a future Reputation.
  • altechachanaltechachan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I am not a big fan of giving Fed ships cloak (aside from the canon ships from the show that has then). Nor do I feel the need that the Feds should have all of the gimmicks/specialties that the other factions have.

    We also have Holoemitters in game (Gold Plated Latinum shop) that makes your ship look like another ship. It's temporary but I think you are still flagged as an enemy ship regardless.

    As for changing the look of your ship to your enemy's faction/allied ship... might want to put a timer on it because I foresee situations where players will simply wait you out.

    Plus you will have to deal with the mechanic of your Holographic 'Cloak' deactivating every time you use a conversation prompt or an castable skill.

    On a side note, the USS Incursion (and the Armada/SCIII games) are licensed by Activision. If Cryptic ever wants that design, they'll have to negotiate with Activision to use it first.
    Member since November 2009... I think.
    (UFP) Ragnar
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I'd much rather have the holo-ship from Insurrection.
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    While one can debate the validity of treaties and such things, I always felt that cloaks aren't really fitting the Federation ideals.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Where did you get the idea that Starfleet is allowed to develop cloaking technology? There is nothing about it on the Memory Alpha page and the Path to 2409 clearly states that the Federation renewing their pledge to the Treaty of Algeron after the Romulan homeworld was destroyed and certain officers in Starfleet were caught with developing cloaking technology due to a destroyed starfleet prototype that was using cloaking technology. Also the Memory Alpha page is completely wrong about the Treaty of Algeron no longer being in effect.
  • admiralcarteradmiralcarter Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Want Raiders? Roll a Klingon
    Want Battlecloak? Roll a Klingon

    The Federation side is good as it is. We still have cloaking devices for thoose that can utilize them...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    i just put the USS Incursion link in my post to give all of you an idea
    on how this hole thing would work ....

    i don´t want this Ship, i am aware of the potential problems with Activision


    The Holografic Cloack would not make you invisible it is just a way to get rid of Aggro

    and a new attack run with a little bit of + Damage when you deaktivate the Holo-Emitter
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    Where did you get the idea that Starfleet is allowed to develop cloaking technology? There is nothing about it on the Memory Alpha page and the Path to 2409 clearly states that the Federation renewing their pledge to the Treaty of Algeron after the Romulan homeworld was destroyed and certain officers in Starfleet were caught with developing cloaking technology due to a destroyed starfleet prototype that was using cloaking technology. Also the Memory Alpha page is completely wrong about the Treaty of Algeron no longer being in effect.

    You can read it in-Game, in the info Section of your "Console - Universal - Cloaking Device"

    or here:
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Cloaking_Device
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    preiko wrote: »
    Okay Guys, it is time for a Debate !!

    More debate then, and less "let's beat this dead horse some more." This one's been beaten into dust repeatedly.
    What are you thinking about that?

    Basically, "Oh, it's this thread again."

    Want to cloak? That's what we've got the KDF and Romulans for, roll one of either and knock yourself out.
    preiko wrote: »
    You can read it in-Game, in the info Section of your "Console - Universal - Cloaking Device"

    or here:
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Cloaking_Device

    "...to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships." Yup. That would be the two selected ships already in-game with cloaks. Enjoy.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    preiko wrote: »
    You can read it in-Game, in the info Section of your "Console - Universal - Cloaking Device"

    or here:
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Cloaking_Device

    So it is limited to only a select group of people to see and it goes against what is said in the Path to 2409. Starfleet stopped their development on cloaking technology due to trying to repair damaged relations between the Romulan Star Empire and Klingon Empire.

    In order for Starfleet to be able to legally use cloaking devices, then it requires something like having some mission have a contact state that since the Federation and Klingon Empire are now allies and the Federation and Klingon Empire recognize the Romulan Republic as the true government of the Romulan people, then the Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic has allowed the Federation to use cloaking ships on certain ships. Without an ingame explanation that everyone can see, then the console explanation is meaningless.
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    WoW, give me a break.

    Federation is not allowed to have a Cloacking Device of any kind,

    GOT IT,

    thank you very much


    Then i better not start, the discussion about the other Factions and their level of Holografic Technology....

    Romulans sure,
    but Klingons and Holografic Technology, a Hologram don´t have Honor
    no Glory in defeating a artificial warrior or Holografic Ship

    ... i better not start ....

    starkaos wrote: »
    So it is limited to only a select group of people [.....] Without an ingame explanation that everyone can see, then the console explanation is meaningless.

    That is a very very very good Point !!
    i never thought it that way
    thank you


    okay then good Morning / good evening or good night i am offline

    bye
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Boy...we sure have been getting quite the large amount of these kinds of threads recently, eh?

    I'm gonna ignore the cloak issue, gotten tired of talking about it so much recently. Instead I will focus on the 'Raider' and 'flanking' part.

    OP, you said that the Federation (and really everyone) got access to the Plesh Brek, that's true. Then my question is: Why not just be happy with that? You already GOT what you are asking for, so why ask? Because you want it as a Fed ship, is that all?

    I really doubt the devs are gonna give Feds a 'raider' ship at all for any reason. Not to the degree folks seem to think they will. You want the advantages of a Raider, you better be willing to pay for em. And I know most Feds who seem to beg and plead for a Raider with whatever justification they can aren't willing to give up stuff for those extras. Why?

    Because I almost never see the Plesh Brek. EVER. Seriously, I might see one at most once a week, maybe twice if I am lucky. Yes I'm sure someone here flies one or has a friend that flies one alot or something, but even so, it's not common. Besides, that is more or less what the devs would roughly give the Feds if they did make a Fed Raider of any kind.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    That thing is fugly.

    Yup, U.S.S. Doorstop :D

    Anyway... if Cryptic cared for a Fed raider, the Aquarius is sitting right there being pathetic as an 'escort'.
  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Want Battlecloak? Roll a Klingon
    Or a Romulan
    NO TO ARC
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    Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
    Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
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  • sle1989sle1989 Member Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    There was that Federation holoship in Insurrection. It disguised itself on the outside with a hologram too, not just on the inside. However that just made it (mostly) invisible to the naked eye. There was no indication as to whether or not it was detectable by sensors.
    y1arXbh.png

  • jestersagejestersage Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yup, U.S.S. Doorstop :D

    Anyway... if Cryptic cared for a Fed raider, the Aquarius is sitting right there being pathetic as an 'escort'.

    And the way they are talking about aquarius (during BoP raider upgrade preview), they seemed to plan not making it a raider. They may change mind, but for now they maybe thinking something else.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    That wiki...who named the officers? Lt. Commander T'Andoria, Ensign Sinjin Kirk, and Ensign Wes Pulaski.

    Someone did not put much thought into these names lol.

    Why does the Federation need raiders? Not to mention having a *raider* is something that sounds very anti Fed.

    Feds don't need everything everyone else has...
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Want Battlecloak? Roll a Klingon
    robeasom wrote: »
    Or a Romulan

    this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Want Raiders? Roll a Klingon
    Want Battlecloak? Roll a Klingon

    The Federation side is good as it is. We still have cloaking devices for thoose that can utilize them...

    This. A clear NO for complete uniformity.

    Why is everyone so keeon of a red vs. blue game with identical ships and skills? Could it be more boring?
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • abystander0abystander0 Member Posts: 649 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    @OP

    What you want is already in the game and readily available for the Federation.

    It's called the Photonic Displacement console.

    Using this, your ship will be cloaked for a short time allowing you to escape from a hostile, while projecting a holographic decoy. However you will be unable to use any weapons or abilities while under the influence of this device. It will work on ANY ship.

    As others have stated before, if you want to play a raider, play the KDF. If you want a battlecloak, play Romulan.
  • edited May 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Boy...we sure have been getting quite the large amount of these kinds of threads recently, eh?

    I'm gonna ignore the cloak issue, gotten tired of talking about it so much recently. Instead I will focus on the 'Raider' and 'flanking' part.

    OP, you said that the Federation (and really everyone) got access to the Plesh Brek, that's true. Then my question is: Why not just be happy with that? You already GOT what you are asking for, so why ask? Because you want it as a Fed ship, is that all?

    I really doubt the devs are gonna give Feds a 'raider' ship at all for any reason. Not to the degree folks seem to think they will. You want the advantages of a Raider, you better be willing to pay for em. And I know most Feds who seem to beg and plead for a Raider with whatever justification they can aren't willing to give up stuff for those extras. Why?

    Because I almost never see the Plesh Brek. EVER. Seriously, I might see one at most once a week, maybe twice if I am lucky. Yes I'm sure someone here flies one or has a friend that flies one alot or something, but even so, it's not common. Besides, that is more or less what the devs would roughly give the Feds if they did make a Fed Raider of any kind.

    There's a number of Feds that want the Perks of being a "Raider" / Bird of Prey. They ***** about Klingons having the Universal BOFF stations. They ***** about Klingons having Battle Cloaks. They ***** about maneuverability of the Bird of Prey. They ***** about the decloaking attacks of the Bird of Prey despite the Warbirds (that they themselves are probably playing with) being completely superior fighters in cloaked warfare.

    They want all those perks of the Bird of Prey but they do not want to pay the price. They do not want to have only 11 BOFF seats instead of 12... I'd like to see how Feds will react when a endgame ship of theirs only has 11 BOFF seats. They do not want the lowest hull & shield mods in the game. Raiders are fragile as hell, and the BOPs even after the buffs given by Cryptic with S9 are still the most fragile things, second only to shuttles.

    No, they don't want to pay the price.

    The example you provided with the Breen Raider is the ultimate example. It does not have a cloak but is sturdier, faster, and comparable enough in turn rate to a Bird of Prey. It has 5 TAC Consoles while most BOPs have only 3, best having 4. The Breen Raider has a fixed Cmdr TAC station, but all other stations totalling 8 other BOFF seats are completely Universal. It essentially is a +1 Bird of Prey in BOFF seating. It has a higher Flanking Bonus than the BOP to make up for the fact of a lack of Cloak with decloaking dmg bonus.

    The Breen Raider is the ultimate "Raider" in the game, more than the Bird of Prey. Yet, as you mentioned, is almost never seen in the game anymore. Because people can't take the heat of playing such a fragile ship, and the Breen Raider is sturdier than the Bird of Prey.

    The majority of Feds cannot handle the heavy hitting Defiant or Prometheus. That's a given. The proof is in the Fed Shipyards subforum asking the devs to make the Ensign Tactical into an ENG or Universal station to essentially make these highly unique, hard hitting Escorts into the same as practically all other Fed Escorts.

    They can't handle the Defiant and survive in a ship that has 33k hull and 0.9 shield mod.

    And they definitely can't handle a Raider... the Breen Raider has 29.7k hull and 0.88 shield mod, while Birds of Prey float around 26-27k hull and the same shield mod. 1 wrong move in a Raider and you are freakin' DONE.

    They want to play with a "Raider"? Get the Breen Raider or roll KDF, fly a Bird of Prey, and be done with it.

    See if they can take the heat.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You guys are getting too hung up on the "no cloak for Feds" thing and missing a very interesting mechanic: the ability to imitate other ships. Imagine what you could do with this in team PvP, or imagine a FE where you infiltrate an enemy fleet to perform a surgical strike and then hightail it out of there before they can catch up with you.

    Feds, Roms, Klinks, whatever. Give it to everyone. This could be cool!
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited May 2014
    I do things on Elite difficulty. If I get decloaked in my B'rel, I often die in seconds. It's measurable in seconds. Shields go down, hull goes down, time to fix the damaged components & respawn.

    Yeah, cloaking is great & flanking is great, but you have to appreciate the flip side (instant death), which many people don't.

    My Raider is not an Escort. Not by a long shot. And I love my Defiant when I play Starfleet. It's tough as nails compared to my Fleet Hoh'sus & Fleet Norgh. Who needs to recloak when you have a big alpha strike?

    Recloaking is for n00bz. :D
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • abystander0abystander0 Member Posts: 649 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    You guys are getting too hung up on the "no cloak for Feds" thing and missing a very interesting mechanic: the ability to imitate other ships. Imagine what you could do with this in team PvP, or imagine a FE where you infiltrate an enemy fleet to perform a surgical strike and then hightail it out of there before they can catch up with you.

    Feds, Roms, Klinks, whatever. Give it to everyone. This could be cool!

    I am not so certain flipping your transponder to the other 'team' would be such a great idea.

    Mechanics wise, there is so much that could go wrong in terms of bugs, or abuse. In a practical sense, I can't imagine that would be terribly useful in a team PvP environment. PvE wise, this can be written into a mission's mechanics to fit a plot right now, without adding any new gimmicks.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Federation using a ship with cloak for attack operations just feels wrong.

    But that said, the idea of a Starfleet vessel disguising as a different ship for surveillance sounds acceptable to me - as long as the mechanics support the lore idea of Starfleet as peaceful exploration corps, rather than a military force for conquest.

    So it shouldn't grant offensive bonuses, but defensive bonuses. Say, it drains your weapon power (so if you come from "holocloak", you are not insta-gibbing enemies, because your weapon power is low), but grants you a boost to defense and maybe science abilities, and you can maintain shields while disguised.

    These ships might be actually more like Science Vessels than Escorts. Or the "holographic cloak" might be an active console or device only useable on SVs?
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