Sure I can agree it's probably hard on new people just coming to the game, but guess what? When I started I had nothing also, and I haven't been playing for as long as a lot of you.
There are ways to farm EC, even for a newcomer. Put in the effort and reap the rewards.
Consider me greedy if you like, but I've put the time in and I intend to enjoy it.
This "unlimited money" nonsense, it is just as real an issue in the real world and real economies.
How do you think inflation occurs in real life? It occurs because of an increase in the money supply.
This isn't controversial...
Imagine that there is a bath tub, where there is a small hole in the plug. If filled with water, and left alone, the bath tub will eventually empty out. If you add water faster than it drains out, the water will continue to rise.
The money supply works the same way.
---
Do you know how markets determine prices?
There is the price sellers are willing to sell for, and the price buyers are willing to buy for.
As inflation occurs and people have more money, in general, buyers will be willing to pay more.
You must be oh so gullible to the so called ways, of how economics wants it to be, vs how it should be.
Real economics doesn't have an infinite source of currency, there is a limit you know, and while yes printing more money does throw off the economy, it is because when you print more money and not back it up with hard value, than yes it deflates the dollar value.
And while this will effect inflation as well, inflation is also a greed issue as well, after all asking more money for goods and services, doesn't mean you are going to get any of it from your company or boss, nor even a bonus (depends on job).
Economical greed will show clearly even if the economy is good, and no extra currency is being produced, that products prices if in high demand will increase in price till it stalls in sales, this is actual inflation which depicts how far are people willing to pay for something, before the majority finally says no more, and prices must stall or come down.
Also inflation is depicted if products start to become less plentiful, or the price of goods to produce the product goes up, it will also inflate the price of this product as well, but the cost of goods to produce said item might actually be in plentiful supply, and said supplier may just want more money so inflation again at work.
Competition is supposed to aid in preventing inflation to a degree, but how often do we see competitor's bought out, or run out of business, how often do we see markets manipulated for the good of the fortune 500?
EC's in this game are an imaginary monetary device with an infinite supply, it clearly never runs out because unlike real money needing printing, the game produces infinite supply of EC's by well virtual means.
If a guy comes and cuts your grass for $20, and all of a sudden you get a raise, does that mean now that you have more money he should charge you $30, or $35, how about $40, well by your definition yes he should because you have more money now in circulation right?
There will come a time when the key market stalls, and can get no higher before people finally stop buying in quantity.
Correct. We are currently experiencing a boom. Things can always change that might cause the keys to drop in price.
So enjoy it while you all can, as for me like I said I stopped long ago buying keys from the exchange, it is cheaper with dilithium for me now.
I am enjoying it while I can. However, I do not live in the moment. I perpetually live in the future. The money I am making now is being set aside for making even more money when the boom becomes a bust.
Planning ahead is OP, plz nerf.
And for every key you do not buy off the exchange, there are multiple people at this very moment who will, and are. My wallet does not discern between whose EC I am collecting. Only that there are numbers. Lots of numbers.
it never fails to amaze me why people exchange anything they have purchased from the c-store for plain old ec.
i can quite understand people exchanging zen for dilithium as its fairly hard to get in large amounts but you can always convert the other way at some point and havent realy lost anything much, dilithium is also very important for lots of fleet and rep projects and high tier gear and such.
but i just seems crazy to me that people would want to exchange zen for ec, that is what they are doing when they sell c-store items for ec.
ec is so easy to earn in large amounts and about the only thing you can do with it is buy other stuff from the exchange.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
it never fails to amaze me why people exchange anything they have purchased from the c-store for plain old ec.
i can quite understand people exchanging zen for dilithium as its fairly hard to get in large amounts but you can always convert the other way at some point and havent realy lost anything much, dilithium is also very important for lots of fleet and rep projects and high tier gear and such.
but i just seems crazy to me that people would want to exchange zen for ec, that is what they are doing when they sell c-store items for ec.
ec is so easy to earn in large amounts and about the only thing you can do with it is buy other stuff from the exchange.
Because they have a infatuation with selling highly OP keys, for someone else to open lockboxes with in hopes that all those EC's they charged for those keys, allows them to buy the goodies easier.
it never fails to amaze me why people exchange anything they have purchased from the c-store for plain old ec.
i can quite understand people exchanging zen for dilithium as its fairly hard to get in large amounts but you can always convert the other way at some point and havent realy lost anything much, dilithium is also very important for lots of fleet and rep projects and high tier gear and such.
but i just seems crazy to me that people would want to exchange zen for ec, that is what they are doing when they sell c-store items for ec.
ec is so easy to earn in large amounts and about the only thing you can do with it is buy other stuff from the exchange.
Ignorant people are inherently susceptible to making poor financial decisions. STO has many ignorant players in it. Therefore there are many opportunities for them to be taken advantage of.
The fact you can exchange zen for EC, zen for dilithium, dilithium for zen, and EC for dilithium (in the form of contraband or lockboxes and getting dilithium mining claims -- though admittedly this is probably the most inefficient of the conversions), is as perfect a system as you will get in a f2p game.
I can tell you this, though. EC has far more purchasing power in the game than zen or dilithium. Therefore there are many people who will readily make a deal for additional buying power.
EC is the most flexible and malleable currency in STO. You can do more with EC than zen.
In general, purchasing with EC is more cost effective then using Zen if you want a specific item from a lockbox. Many of us long-term players don't really have anything left to spend Zen on, since most of the items in the C-Store are account unlocks.
I bought approximately 350 keys when they were selling for 1.2 -1.3M each, and sold them all for pretty much double that.
But isn't that the practice of any business? Buy low and sell high?
I personally think the people with the funds and the wherewithall to do it, but don't, are missing out.
It is part of the game for me.
This is essentially a form of market manipulation, creating artificial demand. In the real world, there are costs associated with doing so.
What they need is an Exchange tax, a listing fee that depends on both duration and value.
In general, purchasing with EC is more cost effective then using Zen if you want a specific item from a lockbox. Many of us long-term players don't really have anything left to spend Zen on, since most of the items in the C-Store are account unlocks.
This is essentially a form of market manipulation, creating artificial demand. In the real world, there are costs associated with doing so.
What they need is an Exchange tax, a listing fee that depends on both duration and value.
That doesn't do much for people who already have oodles of EC. Ignorant players get punished since they will waste EC on items that simply do not sell as a consequence of an EC tax.
And then you will find players using zone chat or private chat channels to sell expensive items like lockbox ships since they simply could not afford an EC tax on one of those gems.
With players refusing to use the exchange to sell rare and valuable items for their true worth, it won't just be lockbox ships, but multiple things worth lots of money, simply because of players wanting to dodge a tax.
This in turn, hurts the economy even more, because the players who are unable or unwilling to pay steep EC taxes just to list their items will cause the items that are on the exchange to inflate in value to cover the overhead, and less items over all which means less competition as some players simply can't or won't afford the cost of listing them.
If the tax is too high, the consequences are more pronounced. If the tax is too low, then it had might as well be non-existant since it lacks the 'teeth' to deal with the issue.
Speaking as one of the super-rich people in STO (along with thecosmic1), the idea of an exchange tax is not going to hurt the bottom line of people who know how the market works.
It's going to hurt those who don't know how the market works. Which, don't get me wrong -- I do not care about the vast majority of STO players. But I do care enough about my customers when it comes to my own bottom line being threatened by their ignorance and fear.
The only way an exchange tax would hurt my bottom line is if the faith in the exchange itself is shaken by my customers.
Then you lead a sad existence... Why bother with a game if you think its content is regurgitated?
How boring lets spend 95% of my time in a game stood watch fictional game markets...
Any you OP, quite clearly trying to manipulate the market in some way.
Go play the game as it was meant to be played.
We all have different ways to enjoy the game. Personally Grind is not enjoyable. I rather work the market to obtain what I want then shell out real money or play a ESTF 10 times a day. I enjoy the social interaction with my fleet mates, I enjoy leading and building a stronger fleet. I enjoy making others game's experiences more fun and less grindy. I DO NOT enjoy playing the same mission again and again to obtain marks or otherwise. I enjoy challenge and not repetition.
One other thing, I am very patient. I wanted the Jem Dread but waited until I had the Romulan Rep for the Elite scorpions before buying it, even though at the time I had thousands of Lobi. At the moment I want a Nicor. I will wait until the price goes down or I eventually pluck one out of a box. I'm in no hurry.
My ingame goals are to obtain massive wealth and in comparison to many others I have, as in EC and assets that can be liquidated I am already a STO billionaire. I also have unique game goals outside the normal mission after mission or grind out rep projects. I choose to use my time and assets in a manner that will yield me the best results.
In my opinion this game can be considered a Sandbox game as there are many ways to enjoy it. The comment that I should play the game the way it was meant to be played is a matter of personal choice. If you so choose to dump hundreds of dollars into zen to buy keys and ships that's your choice. Myself personally haven't bought zen in almost a year, all the while I can buy whatever I so choose to. Sorry I smell jealousy.
The effectiveness of an Exchange tax would depend on two things.
First, on how the tax is structured and applied. Depending on how it's implemented, it can either run exactly as iconians predicts, or exactly the opposite. Most MMOs have a tax system in place as a money-sink.
Which leads to the question of how much the prices are being driven by market manipulation (people imposing a price floor) in the first place. If the inflation is due almost entirely upon the egregious ever-increasing supply of EC, then targeting market manipulation is pointless.
Regardless, even a token tax on payments received would be a way of reducing the money supply. Sure, a 1% tax may cause items to be listed 1% higher, but that's 1% from the buyer that the seller doesn't receive, removing it from the economy.
And I think you made an error in characterizing what the poster you quoted described as "creating artificial demand."
Ah, you are correct.
For some reason I read that as buying the cheaper items and immediately re-listing it at a higher price. While this would be practical for low-liquidity items, it would be impractical to try and maintain a price floor for something as liquid as Master Keys.
I am in favor of a number of small sinks. A 1% tax on Exchange sales would work well. We need to make the vendors actually useful. There are a number of small lobi items that would work well @ a vendor, such as team batteries. The vendors can also sell green and blue gear up to level 49 and price it accordingly. Rep projects need a huge increase, instead of 7.5k EC, maybe 30k. 30k is nothing, one run with Admiral BoBo will net you 300k-600k depending on your luck. We should also add a small EC cost to every piece of fleet gear and rep gear bought, 25k or so will do. Lastly and I know small fleets will cry a river here but we need to add a 50k EC requirement in addition to the normal goods needed.
A simple mechanism such as a tax will not solve this problem, we need a bucket of small sinks to spread the total EC sink around.
I am one of those people that buy stuff up and hold it for months waiting for the price to go up. I have made a fortune on some items and others I had to either take a loss on or nearly break even on. Playing the market is not always a sure thing. I have also been burned flipping ships before.
Rules of Acquisition #62
The riskier the road, the greater the profit
Regardless, even a token tax on payments received would be a way of reducing the money supply. Sure, a 1% tax may cause items to be listed 1% higher, but that's 1% from the buyer that the seller doesn't receive, removing it from the economy.
You are correct. It would be an effective money sink. However, the problem is that even 1% tax might be seen as something to be avoided.
A 80,000,000 lockbox ship on the exchange results in 800,000 ec being removed from the equation.
800,000 EC may not seem like much, but that's 800,000 EC saved if you went through a private face-to-face transaction.
A 1% tax on a 500,000,000 EC Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will take 5,000,000 out of the selling price. And 5,000,000 is nothing to sneer at.
These are just extreme examples, mind you. But they introduce the precedent that there would be a type of 'black market' in STO where people would engage in tax-free trades in order to save money, no matter how small the amount that would be saved -- since it wouldn't just 'stop' at Lockbox Ships. Nothing would stop this 'black market' from engaging in numerous trades regarding a variety of merchandise, as people see an easy way to avoid getting taxed.
A 1% tax is fairly low on many things. A 2,000,000 EC doff might only skim 2,000 EC from the trade, but when you're talking higher integers, even 1% is going to make a noticable hit.
And some might even say 1% is too low -- that it should be higher. And still others will say 1% is too high, it needs to be lower. But there comes a point where a low enough tax will simply not have the desired effect.
In the end, a tax would still only hurt those who do not understand, while those of us who are 'fat cats' would simply adapt, and find some other means to make -- and save money.
First off I would like to say that I watch the STO Exchange daily and have done so for over a year.Because of this I have a fair good idea of pricing trends and what availability different items have.
@ the moment keys are close to 2.6 Million EC Each over 1.3 to 1.4 Million this time last year. This has resulted in not only prices of ships to skyrocket but the availability of both lockbox ships and lobi ships to drop as well. The price of keys has resulted in less people buying keys with EC and therefore less ships being available. Traits have also seen a dramatic increase as well.
Myself personally have only bought maybe 5 keys in the last several months because of the high key price. People in my fleet are refusing to buy keys either with EC or Zen. This has led to hoarding of EC and less EC flowing through the economy.
The reason I bring this up is I see that if something doesn't change soon the STO Economy might take a serious hit in the future.
Any comments or ideas?
its just peoples greed...i dotn get why people play starfleet at all if all they wnat to make is profit...
I do not have any desire to spend hundreds of dollars to obtain a ship or item that I want. So being the person that I am, I adapt to the way the environment works and try to make things work in my favor. Key flipping is not something I am interested in. In my mind too much work and not enough profit for the time. Time<Benefit is what is paramount for in, in game and RL.
Also my wife would be quite upset if I spent 100 dollars by a virtual ship. Imagine how many shares of stock you can buy with that $100.
I do not have any desire to spend hundreds of dollars to obtain a ship or item that I want. So being the person that I am, I adapt to the way the environment works and try to make things work in my favor. Key flipping is not something I am interested in. In my mind too much work and not enough profit for the time. Time<Benefit is what is paramount for in, in game and RL.
Also my wife would be quite upset if I spent 100 dollars by a virtual ship. Imagine how many shares of stock you can buy with that $100.
Shares of stock that could dramatically drop in price as to be worthless, or dividends you will collect to supplement your income, but not enough of which as to make a noticable difference in your lifestyle.
I'm not saying don't buy stock (far from it, because stock is a great way to supplement your income). I'm just saying that it really does depend on your lifestyle and what you value, and what risks you want to take.
There are people who put high value in their lockbox ships or other in-game items, moreso than they might in stock -- and we all have to play in that market if we desire things badly enough.
Just as I may not want to spend $100 on stocks, thinking it's too much effort for too little reward (like dividends), I would still be forced to participate in the stock trade with the rules and prices set up by those who put high value into that financial system.
I can't just name my own price for purchasing stock because it's too much effort and money to get shares I really value (and that others really value too), and I would be wrong for calling people greedy for demanding high prices for valuable shares in Disney or Amazon.
Well in my opinion 800 lobi crystals is also a bit to much especially for people who either dont want / can grind-farm alot and are additionaly not that "kind of rich irl" to just buy like ??? keys to open boxes ?
im not sure how many lobi crystals drop from 1 box?
i opened a box recently and there were 7 crystals inside wich means i would need to opeb over 100 boxes to get 800 crystals
lets say i opened 120 Boxes to get the crystals i need fo the ship.. thats is 120 uros .. for 1 ship...for 1 character...vykitty would kill me if i use our money like that.
then there is a way around i heard... to farm 120 Million? energy credit? besides of some foundry missions i do reputationand fleet mission and i maybe make 1-2 million a day (( if i play the whole day ))
by that math i need hoe long? 50 days or more...wait... i forgot i need also to unlock the credit cap increase...the fleet starbase eats also dilithium so it could even take longer...
of course there are other games with even more grind but that dosent mean that grind is any good at all especially peopel who play even less than me due to family / reallife and so on when i talk to them they tell em also how frustrating it is at some point... the ony solution is to not care but meh ... if i care to less i might just play something else you know
but compared to the other Cryptic game i play ( champions ) i need only farm 1 hours to be able to buy 1 Key from player....and the prices for exotic items are atleats a bit more reasonable in Champions...
dont get me wrong.. this is no rant .. and we dont NEED those ships to be abel to play... but it can be a lil bit demotivating or frustrating if you want to have something and it is either locked behind a heavy grindfest or a massive wallet leech ...
the irony is its star trek but it really feels like ferenginar online
The other things is Fleet-Base stuff takes to long if you dont have a big fleet... in some other game they had a cool soulution fo that .. they listened to teh playerbase when they asked for " less resources needed if the fleet is smaller"
well i think i went a lil bit offtopic sorry about that.. what i wanted to say is that we maybe as players could be working closer together on the cause... i mean cryptic gives us a grindfest .. we shouldnt shoot prices for keys or other items to high then.. so we give eachother the chance to grind cryptics tasks and still be able to buy our favored items
dont be so ferengi please =P
P.S. im on painkillers so ive done many typos... i think? but im to lazy to re-check atm :O
There are ways to make some serious EC without a massive grind. People need to stop wasting EC on crazy things. I know people that grind to just buy keys. If they grinding for maybe a few weeks moderately saved and invested that EC that could buy themselves a few keys a week without having to run foundry missions. I haven't done a foundry grind mission in months. I guess people are impatient. I waited two months for my dread. I made over 80 Million just flipping traits last week. You need to grind in the beginning and invest what you make instead of being hand to mouth. You grind for 2.5M and instead of buying something that will increase in value and make you free EC over time, people run and buy a lottery ticket (KEY).
And it all boils down to player greed. This is why there needs to be a much lower ec cap on exchange items. People are selling things for more than 500 times their value, and its ludicrous to pay such an amount. Personally, I don't buy off the exchange anymore. I don't even deal with ec most of the time. I just hop online and buy the items I require directly. Its faster and easier. I have too much other stuff to spend my ec on to save up millions for a single duty officer.and never have I or will I buy a key from one of these guys.
And it all boils down to player greed. This is why there needs to be a much lower ec cap on exchange items. People are selling things for more than 500 times their value, and its ludicrous to pay such an amount. Personally, I don't buy off the exchange anymore. I don't even deal with ec most of the time. I just hop online and buy the items I require directly. Its faster and easier. I have too much other stuff to spend my ec on to save up millions for a single duty officer.and never have I or will I buy a key from one of these guys.
Please explain how it is greed? I personally don't flip keys but I don't see greed contributing to the price of keys. People need to stop buying them and the price will fall. Its called a fair market.
Comments
about the insane high prices
like some ships over 200 mill
keys that are 2.5 mil +
and why i dunno its more what i see that
rich pll that spend alot of real cash make the rules of how much a key must be sold
and players that cant spend real mony are sitting ducks
and are mostly push back into a coner
its always the same in every mmorpg rich vs poor sadly
i like to see more help from the rich pll to help the poor a bit
not giving mony but to make things a bit cheaper so every1 can buy some beter stuff
so there wil be more beter players in the game with beter gear
and can do more things together
also a very good sample with the game SWTOR
and max lvl you can do 8 man run ore 16
but most ask good gear mostly purple with so 168 rating
its only useble for sub players that can wear purple rating gear
so F2P must do it with less in terms they never get a change to do those runs
and are left behind
for me i ad every1 to a party even if they are not good geared
for me is 1 rule i want to that players enjoy the game
and not get yellt ad your a noob becouse he wears not so good gear
so thats how i think
sorry for my bad english
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, whine.
There are ways to farm EC, even for a newcomer. Put in the effort and reap the rewards.
Consider me greedy if you like, but I've put the time in and I intend to enjoy it.
You must be oh so gullible to the so called ways, of how economics wants it to be, vs how it should be.
Real economics doesn't have an infinite source of currency, there is a limit you know, and while yes printing more money does throw off the economy, it is because when you print more money and not back it up with hard value, than yes it deflates the dollar value.
And while this will effect inflation as well, inflation is also a greed issue as well, after all asking more money for goods and services, doesn't mean you are going to get any of it from your company or boss, nor even a bonus (depends on job).
Economical greed will show clearly even if the economy is good, and no extra currency is being produced, that products prices if in high demand will increase in price till it stalls in sales, this is actual inflation which depicts how far are people willing to pay for something, before the majority finally says no more, and prices must stall or come down.
Also inflation is depicted if products start to become less plentiful, or the price of goods to produce the product goes up, it will also inflate the price of this product as well, but the cost of goods to produce said item might actually be in plentiful supply, and said supplier may just want more money so inflation again at work.
Competition is supposed to aid in preventing inflation to a degree, but how often do we see competitor's bought out, or run out of business, how often do we see markets manipulated for the good of the fortune 500?
EC's in this game are an imaginary monetary device with an infinite supply, it clearly never runs out because unlike real money needing printing, the game produces infinite supply of EC's by well virtual means.
If a guy comes and cuts your grass for $20, and all of a sudden you get a raise, does that mean now that you have more money he should charge you $30, or $35, how about $40, well by your definition yes he should because you have more money now in circulation right?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
There will come a time when the key market stalls, and can get no higher before people finally stop buying in quantity.
So enjoy it while you all can, as for me like I said I stopped long ago buying keys from the exchange, it is cheaper with dilithium for me now.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Correct. We are currently experiencing a boom. Things can always change that might cause the keys to drop in price.
I am enjoying it while I can. However, I do not live in the moment. I perpetually live in the future. The money I am making now is being set aside for making even more money when the boom becomes a bust.
Planning ahead is OP, plz nerf.
And for every key you do not buy off the exchange, there are multiple people at this very moment who will, and are. My wallet does not discern between whose EC I am collecting. Only that there are numbers. Lots of numbers.
i can quite understand people exchanging zen for dilithium as its fairly hard to get in large amounts but you can always convert the other way at some point and havent realy lost anything much, dilithium is also very important for lots of fleet and rep projects and high tier gear and such.
but i just seems crazy to me that people would want to exchange zen for ec, that is what they are doing when they sell c-store items for ec.
ec is so easy to earn in large amounts and about the only thing you can do with it is buy other stuff from the exchange.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Because they have a infatuation with selling highly OP keys, for someone else to open lockboxes with in hopes that all those EC's they charged for those keys, allows them to buy the goodies easier.
No other reason outside of this.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Ignorant people are inherently susceptible to making poor financial decisions. STO has many ignorant players in it. Therefore there are many opportunities for them to be taken advantage of.
The fact you can exchange zen for EC, zen for dilithium, dilithium for zen, and EC for dilithium (in the form of contraband or lockboxes and getting dilithium mining claims -- though admittedly this is probably the most inefficient of the conversions), is as perfect a system as you will get in a f2p game.
I can tell you this, though. EC has far more purchasing power in the game than zen or dilithium. Therefore there are many people who will readily make a deal for additional buying power.
EC is the most flexible and malleable currency in STO. You can do more with EC than zen.
This is essentially a form of market manipulation, creating artificial demand. In the real world, there are costs associated with doing so.
What they need is an Exchange tax, a listing fee that depends on both duration and value.
That doesn't do much for people who already have oodles of EC. Ignorant players get punished since they will waste EC on items that simply do not sell as a consequence of an EC tax.
And then you will find players using zone chat or private chat channels to sell expensive items like lockbox ships since they simply could not afford an EC tax on one of those gems.
With players refusing to use the exchange to sell rare and valuable items for their true worth, it won't just be lockbox ships, but multiple things worth lots of money, simply because of players wanting to dodge a tax.
This in turn, hurts the economy even more, because the players who are unable or unwilling to pay steep EC taxes just to list their items will cause the items that are on the exchange to inflate in value to cover the overhead, and less items over all which means less competition as some players simply can't or won't afford the cost of listing them.
If the tax is too high, the consequences are more pronounced. If the tax is too low, then it had might as well be non-existant since it lacks the 'teeth' to deal with the issue.
Speaking as one of the super-rich people in STO (along with thecosmic1), the idea of an exchange tax is not going to hurt the bottom line of people who know how the market works.
It's going to hurt those who don't know how the market works. Which, don't get me wrong -- I do not care about the vast majority of STO players. But I do care enough about my customers when it comes to my own bottom line being threatened by their ignorance and fear.
The only way an exchange tax would hurt my bottom line is if the faith in the exchange itself is shaken by my customers.
We all have different ways to enjoy the game. Personally Grind is not enjoyable. I rather work the market to obtain what I want then shell out real money or play a ESTF 10 times a day. I enjoy the social interaction with my fleet mates, I enjoy leading and building a stronger fleet. I enjoy making others game's experiences more fun and less grindy. I DO NOT enjoy playing the same mission again and again to obtain marks or otherwise. I enjoy challenge and not repetition.
One other thing, I am very patient. I wanted the Jem Dread but waited until I had the Romulan Rep for the Elite scorpions before buying it, even though at the time I had thousands of Lobi. At the moment I want a Nicor. I will wait until the price goes down or I eventually pluck one out of a box. I'm in no hurry.
My ingame goals are to obtain massive wealth and in comparison to many others I have, as in EC and assets that can be liquidated I am already a STO billionaire. I also have unique game goals outside the normal mission after mission or grind out rep projects. I choose to use my time and assets in a manner that will yield me the best results.
In my opinion this game can be considered a Sandbox game as there are many ways to enjoy it. The comment that I should play the game the way it was meant to be played is a matter of personal choice. If you so choose to dump hundreds of dollars into zen to buy keys and ships that's your choice. Myself personally haven't bought zen in almost a year, all the while I can buy whatever I so choose to. Sorry I smell jealousy.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
First, on how the tax is structured and applied. Depending on how it's implemented, it can either run exactly as iconians predicts, or exactly the opposite. Most MMOs have a tax system in place as a money-sink.
Which leads to the question of how much the prices are being driven by market manipulation (people imposing a price floor) in the first place. If the inflation is due almost entirely upon the egregious ever-increasing supply of EC, then targeting market manipulation is pointless.
Regardless, even a token tax on payments received would be a way of reducing the money supply. Sure, a 1% tax may cause items to be listed 1% higher, but that's 1% from the buyer that the seller doesn't receive, removing it from the economy.
Ah, you are correct.
For some reason I read that as buying the cheaper items and immediately re-listing it at a higher price. While this would be practical for low-liquidity items, it would be impractical to try and maintain a price floor for something as liquid as Master Keys.
A simple mechanism such as a tax will not solve this problem, we need a bucket of small sinks to spread the total EC sink around.
I am one of those people that buy stuff up and hold it for months waiting for the price to go up. I have made a fortune on some items and others I had to either take a loss on or nearly break even on. Playing the market is not always a sure thing. I have also been burned flipping ships before.
Rules of Acquisition #62
The riskier the road, the greater the profit
You are correct. It would be an effective money sink. However, the problem is that even 1% tax might be seen as something to be avoided.
A 80,000,000 lockbox ship on the exchange results in 800,000 ec being removed from the equation.
800,000 EC may not seem like much, but that's 800,000 EC saved if you went through a private face-to-face transaction.
A 1% tax on a 500,000,000 EC Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will take 5,000,000 out of the selling price. And 5,000,000 is nothing to sneer at.
These are just extreme examples, mind you. But they introduce the precedent that there would be a type of 'black market' in STO where people would engage in tax-free trades in order to save money, no matter how small the amount that would be saved -- since it wouldn't just 'stop' at Lockbox Ships. Nothing would stop this 'black market' from engaging in numerous trades regarding a variety of merchandise, as people see an easy way to avoid getting taxed.
A 1% tax is fairly low on many things. A 2,000,000 EC doff might only skim 2,000 EC from the trade, but when you're talking higher integers, even 1% is going to make a noticable hit.
And some might even say 1% is too low -- that it should be higher. And still others will say 1% is too high, it needs to be lower. But there comes a point where a low enough tax will simply not have the desired effect.
In the end, a tax would still only hurt those who do not understand, while those of us who are 'fat cats' would simply adapt, and find some other means to make -- and save money.
its just peoples greed...i dotn get why people play starfleet at all if all they wnat to make is profit...
Circumstances necessitate it.
I do not have any desire to spend hundreds of dollars to obtain a ship or item that I want. So being the person that I am, I adapt to the way the environment works and try to make things work in my favor. Key flipping is not something I am interested in. In my mind too much work and not enough profit for the time. Time<Benefit is what is paramount for in, in game and RL.
Also my wife would be quite upset if I spent 100 dollars by a virtual ship. Imagine how many shares of stock you can buy with that $100.
Shares of stock that could dramatically drop in price as to be worthless, or dividends you will collect to supplement your income, but not enough of which as to make a noticable difference in your lifestyle.
I'm not saying don't buy stock (far from it, because stock is a great way to supplement your income). I'm just saying that it really does depend on your lifestyle and what you value, and what risks you want to take.
There are people who put high value in their lockbox ships or other in-game items, moreso than they might in stock -- and we all have to play in that market if we desire things badly enough.
Just as I may not want to spend $100 on stocks, thinking it's too much effort for too little reward (like dividends), I would still be forced to participate in the stock trade with the rules and prices set up by those who put high value into that financial system.
I can't just name my own price for purchasing stock because it's too much effort and money to get shares I really value (and that others really value too), and I would be wrong for calling people greedy for demanding high prices for valuable shares in Disney or Amazon.
im not sure how many lobi crystals drop from 1 box?
i opened a box recently and there were 7 crystals inside wich means i would need to opeb over 100 boxes to get 800 crystals
lets say i opened 120 Boxes to get the crystals i need fo the ship.. thats is 120 uros .. for 1 ship...for 1 character...vykitty would kill me if i use our money like that.
then there is a way around i heard... to farm 120 Million? energy credit? besides of some foundry missions i do reputationand fleet mission and i maybe make 1-2 million a day (( if i play the whole day ))
by that math i need hoe long? 50 days or more...wait... i forgot i need also to unlock the credit cap increase...the fleet starbase eats also dilithium so it could even take longer...
of course there are other games with even more grind but that dosent mean that grind is any good at all especially peopel who play even less than me due to family / reallife and so on when i talk to them they tell em also how frustrating it is at some point... the ony solution is to not care but meh ... if i care to less i might just play something else you know
but compared to the other Cryptic game i play ( champions ) i need only farm 1 hours to be able to buy 1 Key from player....and the prices for exotic items are atleats a bit more reasonable in Champions...
dont get me wrong.. this is no rant .. and we dont NEED those ships to be abel to play... but it can be a lil bit demotivating or frustrating if you want to have something and it is either locked behind a heavy grindfest or a massive wallet leech ...
the irony is its star trek but it really feels like ferenginar online
The other things is Fleet-Base stuff takes to long if you dont have a big fleet... in some other game they had a cool soulution fo that .. they listened to teh playerbase when they asked for " less resources needed if the fleet is smaller"
well i think i went a lil bit offtopic sorry about that.. what i wanted to say is that we maybe as players could be working closer together on the cause... i mean cryptic gives us a grindfest .. we shouldnt shoot prices for keys or other items to high then.. so we give eachother the chance to grind cryptics tasks and still be able to buy our favored items
dont be so ferengi please =P
P.S. im on painkillers so ive done many typos... i think? but im to lazy to re-check atm :O
Please explain how it is greed? I personally don't flip keys but I don't see greed contributing to the price of keys. People need to stop buying them and the price will fall. Its called a fair market.