With these new STFs, you have to destroy/kill? these giant tentacle monster ships. That seem to take hours to deploy their planet killing shots. Take forever to grow and are super slow.
Whereas, as we first saw in the FE, 6-8 tiny Nicor ships can join together in 5 seconds, and blow a Voth city ship apart.
Then in one of the new borg Episodes, another 6-8 tiny limitless Nicor ships blow apart the borg command ship.
AND a whole borg PLANET.
So why do the Undine need these massively wasteful, slow, useless so called 'Planet killer' ships, when any 8 of their mass produced vessels can destroy a planet SOOOOOO much easier and quicker.
may depend on the power limitations, some planets that are small enough can be destroyed with a frigate and nicors, like the various other things they have hit. some other planets, difference size between cardassia prime and kessik could be considerable and a planet killer may only have the power to destroy a planet that large. im just speculating here, but considering sto logic, it wouldnt be surprising if the specuation was right.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
And a single starship of any of the three factions stands a fair chance to prevent the smaller ships from doing so.
These are strategic weapons - the type you deploy to attack an enemy's industry, infrastructure, population, or will to fight and not their military. You should always have multiple means of delivering such a weapon in case an enemy can counter one of them.
Example: ICBMS, SLBMs, and transcontinental bombers are all built to deliver the same nuclear warheads into different situations.
Honestly, I gave up trying to make sense of the logic involved in the entire Undine storyline when Cryptic forgot that the Undine already had a big fat gaping hole into the Alpha Quadrant over in the Pelia sector block, hence the Dyson spheres are redundant.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Another question to chuck in here would be how could a ship survive getting shot by a planet killer?
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
Honestly, I gave up trying to make sense of the logic involved in the entire Undine storyline when Cryptic forgot that the Undine already had a big fat gaping hole into the Alpha Quadrant over in the Pelia sector block, hence the Dyson spheres are redundant.
That's a problem with later Star Trek storylines, and not just in STO. They give a species an ability that is way too OP to make them terrifying at first, but never fully use it because that'd break the story.
Even the Borg are concerned. If they really adapted to everything, and with all the species they've assimlilated even off-screen, the whole galaxy would have been assimilated by then, if not the whole universe. But no, they're still vulnerable to riflebutting in the face, neck snapping and even phasers, no matter the frequency and their ships never adapt.
Heck, even the replicators and transporters are seriously OP when you look at it. You could do everything with them, but nope the former ones are used to make food and potentially a gun or an artificial limb and the latter ones are just here because taking a shuttle is so 20th century.
The only moment the replicators were used differently was when a species -so Too Dumb to Live the Borg don't even want to assimilate them- managed to accidentally have a starship crew killed by one.
That's a problem with later Star Trek storylines, and not just in STO. They give a species an ability that is way too OP to make them terrifyinf, but never fully use it.
Even the Borg are concerned. If they really adapted to everything, and with all the species they've assimlilated even off-screen, the whole galaxy would have been assimilated by then, if not the whole universe. But no, they're still vulnerable to riflebutting in the face, neck snapping and even phasers, no matter the frequency and their ships never adapt.
Eh, the only thing the Borg have actually demonstrated the ability to adapt to is directed energy weapons. Their only recourse when dealing with things like cyberweapons is to amputate the infected limb, so to speak.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Heck, even the replicators and transporters are seriously OP when you look at it. You could do everything with them, but nope the former ones are used to make food and potentially a gun or an artificial limb and the latter ones are just here because taking a shuttle is so 20th century.
It's as if they could cure all illnesses with it , but then don't, unless plot demands it, but then forget later when a poor child is dying....The Federation is evil
Another question to chuck in here would be how could a ship survive getting shot by a planet killer?
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
Same way the Death Star could destroy a planet, but at the same time couldn't destroy the largest capital ships in one shot from the same weapon: Variable yield. Weapon fires in low bursts to engage ships, repeatable and sustainable throughout a prolonged battle, or depletes its entire store in one burst to destroy a planet.
And a single starship of any of the three factions stands a fair chance to prevent the smaller ships from doing so.
These are strategic weapons - the type you deploy to attack an enemy's industry, infrastructure, population, or will to fight and not their military. You should always have multiple means of delivering such a weapon in case an enemy can counter one of them.
Example: ICBMS, SLBMs, and transcontinental bombers are all built to deliver the same nuclear warheads into different situations.
And five starships can stop the planet killer that is defended by about 200 nicors that can do the job alone. Not very strategic if you ask me.
The "limited energy" explanation is the only one making sense. Planets can indeed have very different sizes. So the small nicors can only blow small planets.
Although... well the gravity on a differently sized planet should be a lot different^^
Another explanation might be that the big planet killers are needed to overcome planetary defenses... Although I don't remember any of the "main" worlds in Star Trek having things like planetary shielding...
Same way the Death Star could destroy a planet, but at the same time couldn't destroy the largest capital ships in one shot from the same weapon: Variable yield. Weapon fires in low bursts to engage ships, repeatable and sustainable throughout a prolonged battle, or depletes its entire store in one burst to destroy a planet.
Question is then: Why would they do that? If it CAN fire that hard that a planet blows, why would they tune down the yield when firing at us.
After all, they want to blow us up.
And five starships can stop the planet killer that is defended by about 200 nicors that can do the job alone. Not very strategic if you ask me.
The "limited energy" explanation is the only one making sense. Planets can indeed have very different sizes. So the small nicors can only blow small planets.
Although... well the gravity on a differently sized planet should be a lot different^^
Another explanation might be that the big planet killers are needed to overcome planetary defenses... Although I don't remember any of the "main" worlds in Star Trek having things like planetary shielding...
Question is then: Why would they do that? If it CAN fire that hard that a planet blows, why would they tune down the yield when firing at us.
After all, they want to blow us up.
looks up 5 man missions involving the 8472 planet killers above cardassia, ferenginar, gornar... nope. the 8472 failed, spectacularly even against a desperate defense. but thats sto logic for ya.
why fire a full charge at a figher when you could use that full charge to destroy a hangar and hundreds more fighters? resource management.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Another question to chuck in here would be how could a ship survive getting shot by a planet killer?
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
It usually just moves my ship a bit in space, it doesn't even do much damage.
Don't try to racionalize it, because it doesn't make sense. The planet killes are only a way of giving us a target to concentrate on. The bioships "ray merge" would not work very well in the way the missions are done, because it would be a regular engagement of attacking waves of ships. Having a planet killer, you have a "boss".
And five starships can stop the planet killer that is defended by about 200 nicors that can do the job alone. Not very strategic if you ask me.
The "limited energy" explanation is the only one making sense. Planets can indeed have very different sizes. So the small nicors can only blow small planets.
Although... well the gravity on a differently sized planet should be a lot different^^
Another explanation might be that the big planet killers are needed to overcome planetary defenses... Although I don't remember any of the "main" worlds in Star Trek having things like planetary shielding...
Question is then: Why would they do that? If it CAN fire that hard that a planet blows, why would they tune down the yield when firing at us.
After all, they want to blow us up.
By this logic, when assaulting a military hardpoint, your entire team and your tank should empty their entire ordinance on the first random mook you see patrolling outside because forget the base, there's a minion to kill.
Just because they met resistance trying to destroy a planet doesn't mean they're going to abandon their primary objective.
They only exist so players have something big and nasty to shoot at. It's a staple for most MMO's... :P
At least they could be designed in a proper way. At least it will be awesome if they could move tentacles, or something else. Not just static beacons in the atmosphere.They are big, and they are easily targetable :P, but they are ugly and boring, really boring.. god.
Another question to chuck in here would be how could a ship survive getting shot by a planet killer?
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
My assumption was as soon as I encountered this was essentially that when it fires short quick shots its reduced in power.
From what I remember undine planet destroying capabilities usually take a few seconds to charge as its firing at a target so I assume that because its a quick shot rather than a consistent one it does less damage much less.
but thats just my take on it lol
p.s cryptic so used the death star as a design point of the planet killers haha, 4 beams focusing into one big beam :P
My assumption was as soon as I encountered this was essentially that when it fires short quick shots its reduced in power.
From what I remember undine planet destroying capabilities usually take a few seconds to charge as its firing at a target so I assume that because its a quick shot rather than a consistent one it does less damage much less.
but thats just my take on it lol
p.s cryptic so used the death star as a design point of the planet killers haha, 4 beams focusing into one big beam :P
I'd say Vorlon ships inspired it more, but that's the Babylon 5 fan in me talking.
The way I see it, the only way the undine planet killers make sense is if they get stonger attacking tech. The only planets we see destroyed by nicor formations are borgified planets. Even fed planets aren't nearly as teched-up. That's why they need those monstrosities to take out less-developed worlds. And that's why nicors can take out borg cubes with ease, but can't handle a severely-outnumbered allied attack wing.
i will say that it was silly for them to try and make a death star, considering on screen and in game the smaller undine ships made quick work of planets...
I like the tenticals reaching out, it adds a nice effect to the undine space stuff, but. other than that it was another scratch my head and wonder how this dev still has a job..
honestly, destroying planets is not only something the undine already do with smaller ships, but they do it well, and efficiently. infact, the planet killer is the most inefficient 8472 thing I have ever seen. they went from successfully being able to destroy a planet, to not being able to destroy one at all..
The way I see it, the only way the undine planet killers make sense is if they get stonger attacking tech. The only planets we see destroyed by nicor formations are borgified planets. Even fed planets aren't nearly as teched-up. That's why they need those monstrosities to take out less-developed worlds. And that's why nicors can take out borg cubes with ease, but can't handle a severely-outnumbered allied attack wing.
But I am not convinced that a weapon that is "stronger against tech" makes much sense. WHat is so special about "tech" that it blows up better than "Non-tech"? It's not like technology is a special form of matter or something? Or is it? Do advanced civilizations use say, special meta-stable elements that don't exist normally in nature for their tech? (And a borgified planet naturally uses even more than a Federation or Cardassian world?)
The idea that they simply use a lower setting because the ship takes time to generate its full power output and/or its reserves are limited makes sense to me. If the ship for example uses a depleteable energy source (and even an anti-matter reactor is depletable, anti-matter reserves can run out, and a dilithium crystals seem to have a limited lifetime, too), it might be useless to blow all your load on enemy ships and when in orbit of the planet you want to destroy, you don't have enough juice anymore.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
With these new STFs, you have to destroy/kill? these giant tentacle monster ships. That seem to take hours to deploy their planet killing shots. Take forever to grow and are super slow.
Whereas, as we first saw in the FE, 6-8 tiny Nicor ships can join together in 5 seconds, and blow a Voth city ship apart.
Then in one of the new borg Episodes, another 6-8 tiny limitless Nicor ships blow apart the borg command ship.
AND a whole borg PLANET.
So why do the Undine need these massively wasteful, slow, useless so called 'Planet killer' ships, when any 8 of their mass produced vessels can destroy a planet SOOOOOO much easier and quicker.
This is an story of cryptic itself, it's canon but never told before, that's the difficulty of telling a true tale and pick up a storyline where it actually was finished. It's hard to tell why Cryptic invented these monsters I think it has something to do with the WOW factor and in animation much easier to do then 8 little ships. Plus you would lose a lot of planets because you never would be fast enough to take on 8 of these ships.
Am I Right ?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
This is an story of cryptic itself, it's canon but never told before, that's the difficulty of telling a true tale and pick up a storyline where it actually was finished. It's hard to tell why Cryptic invented these monsters I think it has something to do with the WOW factor and in animation much easier to do then 8 little ships. Plus you would lose a lot of planets because you never would be fast enough to take on 8 of these ships.
Am I Right ?
They do have the 8 ship thing. Admittedly it's just an attack animation and doesn't actually involved 8 ships. Largely I know this since I've been shot by it. They are the attacks that the Undine do that push your ship.
The Planet Killers do provide everything else though.
That's a problem with later Star Trek storylines, and not just in STO. They give a species an ability that is way too OP to make them terrifying at first, but never fully use it because that'd break the story.
Yeah, it's hard to blame STO for this. It's kind of the problem with any time you have to take something that sits in a story and put game stats on it, when the only way to stay story accurate would be to give them unbalancing levels of power.
It's like the Voth supposedly being a civilization eleventy bazillion years old, but still with tech reasonably close to ours.
The solution of course would be to not mine Voyager so heavily, but here we are. :rolleyes:
Yeah, it's hard to blame STO for this. It's kind of the problem with any time you have to take something that sits in a story and put game stats on it, when the only way to stay story accurate would be to give them unbalancing levels of power.
It's like the Voth supposedly being a civilization eleventy bazillion years old, but still with tech reasonably close to ours.
The solution of course would be to not mine Voyager so heavily, but here we are. :rolleyes:
You would have to damn science fiction as a whole if we damned that sort of thing. :P
Another question to chuck in here would be how could a ship survive getting shot by a planet killer?
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
See this is what happens when you have an open forum, you get every critic imaginable.
Can you imagine if the Planet Killer started insta killing everyone, then we would have someone start a thread about how the Planet Killer is OP because it can one shot a cruiser with a 60k hull.
Planet Killers plainly exist because Devs needed a boss type thing players could punch onto on. Having a Vila Battleship with the same amount of HP would not have been as convincing as a huge blob. It is basically Neverwinter's Beholder ported to STO with expecting a lot of fantasy of the players to see it as a Species 8472 "invention".
tl;dr: It exists because of game purposes and not because of logic.
Planet Killers are weapons of terror meant to intimidate potential enemies. There are tons of simpler ways to destroy planets.
In fact the best use of a planet killer is to deploy it as a decoy. The enemy sends all it's forces to defend against it, and you attack the weakened reserves with the simpler methods of destroying the planet.
I think by 'winning' the new STF, Undine Assault, you actually 'fail'.
By sending wave after wave of your defences against the planet killer, you leave the planet itself undefended.
After destroying the planet killer, the mission ends. A cut scene comes on showing 8 Nicors fly past, go for the planet and blow it up.
Comments
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
These are strategic weapons - the type you deploy to attack an enemy's industry, infrastructure, population, or will to fight and not their military. You should always have multiple means of delivering such a weapon in case an enemy can counter one of them.
Example: ICBMS, SLBMs, and transcontinental bombers are all built to deliver the same nuclear warheads into different situations.
Surely, the best course of action would be to deploy them at planets, not take on an entire fleet..
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I've seen a few ships get hit in the battlezone, sometimes more than once, and they have a missing shield facing and a good 55% of their hull still intact. How could those floating plant bulbs vaporise an entire planet if they can't even handle a single ship?
The NPC's. Surely the group most affected by the creep
Even the Borg are concerned. If they really adapted to everything, and with all the species they've assimlilated even off-screen, the whole galaxy would have been assimilated by then, if not the whole universe. But no, they're still vulnerable to riflebutting in the face, neck snapping and even phasers, no matter the frequency and their ships never adapt.
Heck, even the replicators and transporters are seriously OP when you look at it. You could do everything with them, but nope the former ones are used to make food and potentially a gun or an artificial limb and the latter ones are just here because taking a shuttle is so 20th century.
The only moment the replicators were used differently was when a species -so Too Dumb to Live the Borg don't even want to assimilate them- managed to accidentally have a starship crew killed by one.
Eh, the only thing the Borg have actually demonstrated the ability to adapt to is directed energy weapons. Their only recourse when dealing with things like cyberweapons is to amputate the infected limb, so to speak.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It's as if they could cure all illnesses with it , but then don't, unless plot demands it, but then forget later when a poor child is dying....The Federation is evil
Same way the Death Star could destroy a planet, but at the same time couldn't destroy the largest capital ships in one shot from the same weapon: Variable yield. Weapon fires in low bursts to engage ships, repeatable and sustainable throughout a prolonged battle, or depletes its entire store in one burst to destroy a planet.
And five starships can stop the planet killer that is defended by about 200 nicors that can do the job alone. Not very strategic if you ask me.
The "limited energy" explanation is the only one making sense. Planets can indeed have very different sizes. So the small nicors can only blow small planets.
Although... well the gravity on a differently sized planet should be a lot different^^
Another explanation might be that the big planet killers are needed to overcome planetary defenses... Although I don't remember any of the "main" worlds in Star Trek having things like planetary shielding...
Question is then: Why would they do that? If it CAN fire that hard that a planet blows, why would they tune down the yield when firing at us.
After all, they want to blow us up.
looks up 5 man missions involving the 8472 planet killers above cardassia, ferenginar, gornar... nope. the 8472 failed, spectacularly even against a desperate defense. but thats sto logic for ya.
why fire a full charge at a figher when you could use that full charge to destroy a hangar and hundreds more fighters? resource management.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It usually just moves my ship a bit in space, it doesn't even do much damage.
Don't try to racionalize it, because it doesn't make sense. The planet killes are only a way of giving us a target to concentrate on. The bioships "ray merge" would not work very well in the way the missions are done, because it would be a regular engagement of attacking waves of ships. Having a planet killer, you have a "boss".
By this logic, when assaulting a military hardpoint, your entire team and your tank should empty their entire ordinance on the first random mook you see patrolling outside because forget the base, there's a minion to kill.
Just because they met resistance trying to destroy a planet doesn't mean they're going to abandon their primary objective.
At least they could be designed in a proper way. At least it will be awesome if they could move tentacles, or something else. Not just static beacons in the atmosphere.They are big, and they are easily targetable :P, but they are ugly and boring, really boring.. god.
My assumption was as soon as I encountered this was essentially that when it fires short quick shots its reduced in power.
From what I remember undine planet destroying capabilities usually take a few seconds to charge as its firing at a target so I assume that because its a quick shot rather than a consistent one it does less damage much less.
but thats just my take on it lol
p.s cryptic so used the death star as a design point of the planet killers haha, 4 beams focusing into one big beam :P
I like the tenticals reaching out, it adds a nice effect to the undine space stuff, but. other than that it was another scratch my head and wonder how this dev still has a job..
honestly, destroying planets is not only something the undine already do with smaller ships, but they do it well, and efficiently. infact, the planet killer is the most inefficient 8472 thing I have ever seen. they went from successfully being able to destroy a planet, to not being able to destroy one at all..
But I am not convinced that a weapon that is "stronger against tech" makes much sense. WHat is so special about "tech" that it blows up better than "Non-tech"? It's not like technology is a special form of matter or something? Or is it? Do advanced civilizations use say, special meta-stable elements that don't exist normally in nature for their tech? (And a borgified planet naturally uses even more than a Federation or Cardassian world?)
The idea that they simply use a lower setting because the ship takes time to generate its full power output and/or its reserves are limited makes sense to me. If the ship for example uses a depleteable energy source (and even an anti-matter reactor is depletable, anti-matter reserves can run out, and a dilithium crystals seem to have a limited lifetime, too), it might be useless to blow all your load on enemy ships and when in orbit of the planet you want to destroy, you don't have enough juice anymore.
This is an story of cryptic itself, it's canon but never told before, that's the difficulty of telling a true tale and pick up a storyline where it actually was finished. It's hard to tell why Cryptic invented these monsters I think it has something to do with the WOW factor and in animation much easier to do then 8 little ships. Plus you would lose a lot of planets because you never would be fast enough to take on 8 of these ships.
Am I Right ?
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
The Planet Killers do provide everything else though.
Yeah, it's hard to blame STO for this. It's kind of the problem with any time you have to take something that sits in a story and put game stats on it, when the only way to stay story accurate would be to give them unbalancing levels of power.
It's like the Voth supposedly being a civilization eleventy bazillion years old, but still with tech reasonably close to ours.
The solution of course would be to not mine Voyager so heavily, but here we are. :rolleyes:
You would have to damn science fiction as a whole if we damned that sort of thing. :P
See this is what happens when you have an open forum, you get every critic imaginable.
Can you imagine if the Planet Killer started insta killing everyone, then we would have someone start a thread about how the Planet Killer is OP because it can one shot a cruiser with a 60k hull.
Its a game, it's not real, deal with it.
tl;dr: It exists because of game purposes and not because of logic.
I think by 'winning' the new STF, Undine Assault, you actually 'fail'.
By sending wave after wave of your defences against the planet killer, you leave the planet itself undefended.
After destroying the planet killer, the mission ends. A cut scene comes on showing 8 Nicors fly past, go for the planet and blow it up.