Are there any plans about the enemy homeworld, we know from Sphere of Influence the Iconians aren't on it, so will the alliance fortify it and search for artifact sites?
Are there any plans about the enemy homeworld, we know from Sphere of Influence the Iconians aren't on it, so will the alliance fortify it and search for artifact sites?
As best the canon reports, when the planet was discovered in TNG, Captain Picard destroyed the last operational structures on the surface of Iconia in order to prevent the technology from falling into the wrong hands.
The Iconians want to rebuild it back to it's former glory... I say we blow it up.... that'll annoy them. XD
If only there were a way to trick the Undine into attacking Iconia with their PK, instead of one of the planets they keep attacking in Undine Assault...
i say plant a ton of tactical nuclear warheads all over iconia and once the iconians show up set them off =D or a feet or scimatars and tholoran pulse the entire planet lol
The Iconians abandoned their homeworld ages ago and Picard blew up their gateway.
I don't think they even know how to get back there. When your entire transport system is a series of interdimensional portals, do you ever really remember where the planets are actually located?
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
I don't think the pest we are seeing in STO are Iconians.
Remember: Anything we've seen in the series, suggests that the Iconians were not a warlike species.
For example: Both Gateway departure rooms we've seen so far have shown no signs of offensive structure. Nothing in those rooms suggested a military embarkation room. They were small, had narrow access-ways (indicating that they weren't designed for neither assembling a strike-force, or quick embarkation from nearby rooms).
They didn have signs of weapons mounts or storage (that you usually find in rooms and areas designed for war effords) and it's especially stupid to have the "door opener" in the same room as the one where you deploy your forces from.
Taking a look at the outside of the Iconian pyramid seen in DS9, we also notice that there are no signs of external weapons ports or any kind of fortifications, apart from the hull wich granted was extremely strong, but as we saw not of much use against a ground assault.
Next up is their tech: Neither Iconia or the "pyramid planet" had any indications of ground or orbital defenses that you would assume any military installation of a space faring species would have.
Romulans, Federation, Cardassians and Klingons. They all had both ground based and space based weapons, designed to defend their planets, yet there was nothing to even hint such installations... Heck, the iconian homeworld was decimated... You'd think that the ability to board any ship they wanted with their gates was enough for a fairly effective defense, being able to deploy forces or even explosives to any ship in minutes.
But even then: When you can build a transporter that can zip you across the galaxy in fractions of a second, you'd also be able to build defenses and heavy shields...
Yet, there were no signs of wreckage or anything like that in orbit... You'd assume that a fleet of ships that was in battle with someone as supposedly powerful as the Iconians would leave some kind of wrecks in orbit, even after hundreds of thousands of years. It basically seems like they just sat there and took a beating while escaping.
Now finally: The probes: Yes... Those were devastating to any ship they came in contact with. Yet LaForge deducted that they were likely scanning devices, futher enforced by the fact that all it took to remove the negative effects was a "delete and reboot".
This is NOT a warlike species... Everything we know about the Iconians indicate a overly peaceful race... Even more peaceful than the federation or Organians, as it seems they had literally nothing to defend themselves with.
So why attack a world of peaceful people, that isn't even populated anymore?
I think that either Cryptic didn watch the episodes, or that the species we are being plagued by in STO are someone imposing the Iconians, or, in worst case, a minority group that has broken away, and as such are closer resembeling the Stargate Ancients and Ori... Generally similar, but no one thinks of them as the same species.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I don't think the pest we are seeing in STO are Iconians.
Remember: Anything we've seen in the series, suggests that the Iconians were not a warlike speceis.
For example: Both Gateway departure rooms we've seen so far have shown no signs of offensive structure. Nothing in those rooms suggested a military embarkation room. They were small, had narrow access-ways (indicating that they weren't designed for neither assembeling a strikeforce, or quick embarkation from nearby rooms).
They didn have signs of weapons mounts or storage (that you usually find in rooms and areas designed for war effords) and it's especially stupid to have the "door opener" in the same room as the one where you deploy your forces from.
Taking a look at the outside of the Iconian pyramid seen in DS9, we also notice that there are no signs of external weapons ports or any kind of fortifications, apart from the hull wich granted was extremely strong, but as we saw not of much use against a ground assault.
Next up is their tech: Neither Iconia or the "pyramid planet" had any indications of ground or orbital defenses that you would assume any military installation of a space faring species would have.
Romulans, Federation, Cardassians and Klingons. They all had both ground based and space based weapons, designed to defend their planets, yet there was nothing to even hint such installations... Heck, the iconian homeworld was decimated... You'd think that the ability to board any ship they wanted with their gates was enough for a fairly effective defense, being able to deploy forces or even explosives to any ship in minutes.
But even then: When you can build a transporter that can zip you across the galaxy in fractions of a sector, you'd also be able to build defenses and heavy shields...
Yet, there were no signs of wreckage or anything like that in orbit... You'd assume that a fleet of ships that was in battle with someone as supposedly powerful as the Iconians would leave some kind of wrecks in orbit, even after hundreds of thousands of years. It basically seems like they just sat there and took a beating while escaping.
Now finally: The probes: Yes... Those were devastating to any ship they came in contact with. Yet LaForge deducted that they were likely scanning devices, futher enforced by the fact that all it took to remove the negative effects was a "delete and reboot".
This is NOT a warlike species... Everything we know about the Iconians indicate a overly peaceful race... Even more peaceful than the federation or Organians, as it seems they had litteraly nothing to defend themselves with.
I think that either Cryptic didn watch the episodes, or that the species we are being plagued by in STO are someone imposing the Iconians, or, in worst case, a minority group that has broken away, and as such are closer resembeling the Stargate Ancients and Ori... Generally similar, but no one thinks of them as the same species.
You don't actually need siege weapons or defensive fortifications when you can literally just poof anywhere you want and vaporize your enemies with your mind.
The Iconians have been known as the conquerors of countless worlds. They're known as The Demons of Air and Darkness. Why would you give something a moniker like that if it wasn't bad?
I think you're confusing the Iconians with the Tkon. The Tkon were the good guys with portal tech. Iconians were the bad.
Or maybe you're one of THOSE people who think that The Karate Kid was Billy Zabka.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
The Iconians have been rumored as the conquerors of countless worlds. They're known as The Demons of Air and Darkness, most likely named by those who destroyed their world. Why would you give something a moniker like that if it wasn't bad?
According to the TNG episode, this is the correct way to write it.
well... spoiler did have six eyes... maybe it was a Dewan... anyway... i'm not taking the chances they're peaceful... Someone get me some red matter... some lens flare generators.... and a big fleet should my plan go wrong.
well... spoiler did have six eyes... maybe it was a Dewan... anyway... i'm not taking the chances they're peaceful... Someone get me some red matter... some lens flare generators.... and a big fleet should my plan go wrong.
Just saying that considering the evidence, there is no valid reason to assume that the enemies we've met were in fact Iconians.
But even if they were, They'd probably not feel provoked by us attacking a non-populated planet, especially since when Picard blew their apparently last structure up on that world... They did nothing.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Yeah, considering what happened at the end of "Surface Tension", I'm pretty sure those scholars are just utter morons.
Because if Fiction has taught you anything, it's that when an ancient race that disappeared mysteriously and then comes back, IT'S GENERALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TOTALLYFREAKINGEVIL.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
iirc, it was fear, jealousy and xenophobia rather than any actual provocation from the Iconians which led to the attack on their homeworld. Other civilizations were terrified of them, likely because they were so advanced. They probably thought they had no need of standard weapons, they may not have expected hostility from other races around at the time if they themselves were advanced and peaceful.
Given that some of those gateways open in the Andromeda Galaxy, I have to wonder if what we're really encountering here are Kelvans. Maybe the Iconians opened gateways to the Andromeda Galaxy, went there when Iconia fell... and ran into the Kelvans. Who are dangerous, exceedingly powerful, and trying to escape their galaxy before it becomes unlivable for them.
And that robotic probe Kirk sent is still out there, somewhere.
Theory two is that we'll eventually take the Sphere and power up it's Omega jump drive and use it to form a beachead in the Andromeda Galaxy and launch a counter-offensive against the Iconian stronghold, using the link between the Jenolan and Solanae spheres as the bridge.
Um, yeah, IF the Iconians were peaceful, why did a coalition of races come into existence for the sole purpose of destroying them? I could buy Picard's speech about the winners writing history... except that in this case it's a collection of races saying the same thing. Especially when the coalition apparently disbanded shortly afterwards.
Also, why would an aggressive military power demolish the world of a peaceful race? Iconia was blasted into a burned out wasteland... It doesn't make sense for a peaceful race to be exterminated to the last man. People need a reason to go to that much trouble, they don't do it on a whim.
It appears that the Iconians were/are technocrats. They fight battles based on having better technology than their enemy. Thus having a military command center that is nothing more than a set of computer consoles makes sense. No troops or weapons are actually inside the command center, just the C&C equipment for planning their campaigns of conquest and genocide.
Um, yeah, IF the Iconians were peaceful, why did a coalition of races come into existence for the sole purpose of destroying them? I could buy Picard's speech about the winners writing history... except that in this case it's a collection of races saying the same thing. Especially when the coalition apparently disbanded shortly afterwards.
It appears that the Iconians were/are technocrats. They fight battles based on having better technology than their enemy. Thus having a military command center that is nothing more than a set of computer consoles makes sense. No troops or weapons are actually inside the command center, just the C&C equipment for planning their campaigns of conquest and genocide.
And the whole "Kill with your mind" thing.
Really, who the hell would need cannons or phaser banks when you can turn people to ash with a single thought?
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Whether the iconians were peaceful or not is pretty much guesswork from very little information. you can construe information from one ep to mean anything you want.
even if they were peaceful, getting your homeworld bombed, retreating into a sphere and then suffering an accident that forced them into subspace is probably going to change their disposition and this did not happen last week. it was 200 thousand years ago. anything could have happened between now and then.
Does it really matter who they were ? Maybe they were warlike, maybe they were explorers. We will never know the truth for sure, and it doesn't matter. They were slaughtered, their world burned and entirely destroyed. And probably a lot of them died. It seems obvious their ennemies were trying to exterminate them. Iconia was no a target of selective bombardement, it was entirely destroyed, military target, civilian target, it didn't matter. And considering it was their homeworld, it's unlikely there was only military targets.
They barely escaped genocide. Centuries later, they have probably forgotten how the war started, but they surely remember how they lost their world, their own, and almost lost their entire civilization in a genocide. And I'm pretty sure it's not fond memories.
Now, all they have left is probably hatred for the galaxy that slaughtered them, and they surely want revenge.
Maybe they used to be explorers. But today, they are fueled by hatred, and they are there for a revenge.
Um, yeah, IF the Iconians were peaceful, why did a coalition of races come into existence for the sole purpose of destroying them? I could buy Picard's speech about the winners writing history... except that in this case it's a collection of races saying the same thing. Especially when the coalition apparently disbanded shortly afterwards.
Also, why would an aggressive military power demolish the world of a peaceful race? Iconia was blasted into a burned out wasteland... It doesn't make sense for a peaceful race to be exterminated to the last man. People need a reason to go to that much trouble, they don't do it on a whim.
It appears that the Iconians were/are technocrats. They fight battles based on having better technology than their enemy. Thus having a military command center that is nothing more than a set of computer consoles makes sense. No troops or weapons are actually inside the command center, just the C&C equipment for planning their campaigns of conquest and genocide.
Gamma quadrant Dominion.
Also, if the iconians had a similar directive to not share technology, lesser advanced people could have wanted it for themselves.
We have similar issues right here on this little world... Someone has something you want, and don't want to share the amount you want them to share... F'it we just send in the military.
Oldest story in the book.
And again: You would not place a command center, in the same room as your forces deploy from... That would be a idiotic idea.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Right the Teplan.... who weren't dead, just diseased. the Dominion as actually a good counter example since they tended to enslave their enemies.
Also, if the iconians had a similar directive to not share technology, lesser advanced people could have wanted it for themselves.
We have similar issues right here on this little world... Someone has something you want, and don't want to share the amount you want them to share... F'it we just send in the military.
Oldest story in the book.
possibly, but it usually doesn't go so far as systematic extermination. The Vikings, for example, were known to burn towns to the ground, but they didn't do it as part of genocide. They mostly killed people who fought them. The rest got to be slave labor, or got ignored completely. And they definitely didn't systematically exterminate the people who lived near the town.
And again: You would not place a command center, in the same room as your forces deploy from... That would be a idiotic idea.
What makes you think that gate was for troop deployments? Maybe that was just a small one for the use of the command staff. How many gates were on Iconia? We don't know. It's possible the main gate had already been destroyed.
I don't really buy the idea that the Iconians were attacked just because they were really advanced; the destruction of their homeworld makes no sense if that were the case. I can accept that other races my have found their advanced tech to be scary; but they would still have wanted it for themselves if it left them at such a huge disadvantage. Everyone would have gateway technology by now.
Unless the Iconians destroyed it themselves to keep it out of enemy hands of course; but then we'd have to wonder why the gateway Picard found was left intact.
What Picard said in that episode is a theory, there wasn't any direct proof really, so it doesn't mean he was right and it doesn't mean he was wrong, not until there is more proof anyway. As for command centers having gateways, it's no different than the Odyssey having a transporter pad at the back of the bridge, or DS9 having one in it's command center. They are for use by the command staff to quickly go places and Iconians used gateways the same way Starfleet uses transporters.
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Wouldn't it make them "notice" us again?
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
As best the canon reports, when the planet was discovered in TNG, Captain Picard destroyed the last operational structures on the surface of Iconia in order to prevent the technology from falling into the wrong hands.
If only there were a way to trick the Undine into attacking Iconia with their PK, instead of one of the planets they keep attacking in Undine Assault...
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I don't think they even know how to get back there. When your entire transport system is a series of interdimensional portals, do you ever really remember where the planets are actually located?
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Remember: Anything we've seen in the series, suggests that the Iconians were not a warlike species.
For example: Both Gateway departure rooms we've seen so far have shown no signs of offensive structure. Nothing in those rooms suggested a military embarkation room. They were small, had narrow access-ways (indicating that they weren't designed for neither assembling a strike-force, or quick embarkation from nearby rooms).
They didn have signs of weapons mounts or storage (that you usually find in rooms and areas designed for war effords) and it's especially stupid to have the "door opener" in the same room as the one where you deploy your forces from.
Taking a look at the outside of the Iconian pyramid seen in DS9, we also notice that there are no signs of external weapons ports or any kind of fortifications, apart from the hull wich granted was extremely strong, but as we saw not of much use against a ground assault.
Next up is their tech: Neither Iconia or the "pyramid planet" had any indications of ground or orbital defenses that you would assume any military installation of a space faring species would have.
Romulans, Federation, Cardassians and Klingons. They all had both ground based and space based weapons, designed to defend their planets, yet there was nothing to even hint such installations... Heck, the iconian homeworld was decimated... You'd think that the ability to board any ship they wanted with their gates was enough for a fairly effective defense, being able to deploy forces or even explosives to any ship in minutes.
But even then: When you can build a transporter that can zip you across the galaxy in fractions of a second, you'd also be able to build defenses and heavy shields...
Yet, there were no signs of wreckage or anything like that in orbit... You'd assume that a fleet of ships that was in battle with someone as supposedly powerful as the Iconians would leave some kind of wrecks in orbit, even after hundreds of thousands of years. It basically seems like they just sat there and took a beating while escaping.
Now finally: The probes: Yes... Those were devastating to any ship they came in contact with. Yet LaForge deducted that they were likely scanning devices, futher enforced by the fact that all it took to remove the negative effects was a "delete and reboot".
This is NOT a warlike species... Everything we know about the Iconians indicate a overly peaceful race... Even more peaceful than the federation or Organians, as it seems they had literally nothing to defend themselves with.
So why attack a world of peaceful people, that isn't even populated anymore?
I think that either Cryptic didn watch the episodes, or that the species we are being plagued by in STO are someone imposing the Iconians, or, in worst case, a minority group that has broken away, and as such are closer resembeling the Stargate Ancients and Ori... Generally similar, but no one thinks of them as the same species.
You don't actually need siege weapons or defensive fortifications when you can literally just poof anywhere you want and vaporize your enemies with your mind.
The Iconians have been known as the conquerors of countless worlds. They're known as The Demons of Air and Darkness. Why would you give something a moniker like that if it wasn't bad?
I think you're confusing the Iconians with the Tkon. The Tkon were the good guys with portal tech. Iconians were the bad.
Or maybe you're one of THOSE people who think that The Karate Kid was Billy Zabka.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
According to the TNG episode, this is the correct way to write it.
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqE5p6nypc
Just saying that considering the evidence, there is no valid reason to assume that the enemies we've met were in fact Iconians.
But even if they were, They'd probably not feel provoked by us attacking a non-populated planet, especially since when Picard blew their apparently last structure up on that world... They did nothing.
Yeah, considering what happened at the end of "Surface Tension", I'm pretty sure those scholars are just utter morons.
Because if Fiction has taught you anything, it's that when an ancient race that disappeared mysteriously and then comes back, IT'S GENERALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TOTALLY FREAKING EVIL.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
And that robotic probe Kirk sent is still out there, somewhere.
Theory two is that we'll eventually take the Sphere and power up it's Omega jump drive and use it to form a beachead in the Andromeda Galaxy and launch a counter-offensive against the Iconian stronghold, using the link between the Jenolan and Solanae spheres as the bridge.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Also, why would an aggressive military power demolish the world of a peaceful race? Iconia was blasted into a burned out wasteland... It doesn't make sense for a peaceful race to be exterminated to the last man. People need a reason to go to that much trouble, they don't do it on a whim.
It appears that the Iconians were/are technocrats. They fight battles based on having better technology than their enemy. Thus having a military command center that is nothing more than a set of computer consoles makes sense. No troops or weapons are actually inside the command center, just the C&C equipment for planning their campaigns of conquest and genocide.
My character Tsin'xing
And the whole "Kill with your mind" thing.
Really, who the hell would need cannons or phaser banks when you can turn people to ash with a single thought?
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
even if they were peaceful, getting your homeworld bombed, retreating into a sphere and then suffering an accident that forced them into subspace is probably going to change their disposition and this did not happen last week. it was 200 thousand years ago. anything could have happened between now and then.
They barely escaped genocide. Centuries later, they have probably forgotten how the war started, but they surely remember how they lost their world, their own, and almost lost their entire civilization in a genocide. And I'm pretty sure it's not fond memories.
Now, all they have left is probably hatred for the galaxy that slaughtered them, and they surely want revenge.
Maybe they used to be explorers. But today, they are fueled by hatred, and they are there for a revenge.
Gamma quadrant Dominion.
Also, if the iconians had a similar directive to not share technology, lesser advanced people could have wanted it for themselves.
We have similar issues right here on this little world... Someone has something you want, and don't want to share the amount you want them to share... F'it we just send in the military.
Oldest story in the book.
And again: You would not place a command center, in the same room as your forces deploy from... That would be a idiotic idea.
My character Tsin'xing
Unless the Iconians destroyed it themselves to keep it out of enemy hands of course; but then we'd have to wonder why the gateway Picard found was left intact.
Talk about cramped. The inside of submarines has never been roomy.