I'm hoping that one of the Dev's will pick up on this thread and eventually give us the option to collectively vote to kick a member from teams formed via the quick play queue. Because it seems to be case now that people will join the public queues and move around the map a little and maybe take the odd pot shot at things. But will never actively participate in the group, but just expect the other members to carry them. These people have obviously found a way to circumvent the AFK penalty that cryptic has imposed.
The only option currently available to us is either leave the team/map when it becomes apparent that one of these parasites is present. And I use the word "Parasite" because this is exactly what these people are. Or we drain 10 mins out of our game time waiting for the lock penalty to expire or do what most of us descent folk do and is plod on regardless safe in knowing that we're earning these spongers their rewards.
this was explored and rejected quickly, it can be way too easily abused to gang up on an unsuspecting player and get rid of him/her just because you can. so once again, my answer is no.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I say no as well. And I am someone who has never ever quit on an stf.
People will boot other for a lark. Also, I don't want that level of interaction.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not to mention it could be someone new, getting killed quick because they are trying to figure out what to do and watching how the rest of us do it. I can see it being abused by people kicking out newbies. I'm all for a place system that rewards good gear, dilith, or more marks for the most active. not just DPS, but healing team members, and doing objectives (beaming commandos on VC, ect.). That way true "spongers" would miss out on higher rewards.
I have also played a few mmos with a kick options and I can't say it's a good thing, especially when your playing with a pre-formed team. You play right to the end of the game your playing and they kick you just before the end and you don't recieve your rewards. What you be good in the game is an auto-kick feature that automatically detects a player being inactive for a certain amount of time and boots them automatically
Using a participation metric would be a far better way to do it. Have it work similar to the participation metric used on the CE event. If people don't do enough damage or heal enough damage dealt to their teammates, then they get a consolation prize of 5 Marks. This will affect players with poor connections, but it is a small price to pay.
Using a participation metric would be a far better way to do it. Have it work similar to the participation metric used on the CE event. If people don't do enough damage or heal enough damage dealt to their teammates, then they get a consolation prize of 5 Marks. This will affect players with poor connections, but it is a small price to pay.
That might be an idea. I've got nothing against new players. But the last one that was doing that prompted me to make the original post was in a Vesta and part of an established fleet and made no attempt to kill anything past the first few ships. And when they finally died because the group pulled a mob over to them they didn't even bother respawning. Not only does this sort of action annoy other players but also reflects badly on their fleet. Mine has taken action against fleet members that have done this thing in the past. But I do agree that there are people out there that would abuse any feature that would allow a group to kick a member. But there has to be some sort of compromise that can be reached that will deter this kind of behaviour by a very small number of the player base.
Using a participation metric would be a far better way to do it. Have it work similar to the participation metric used on the CE event. If people don't do enough damage or heal enough damage dealt to their teammates, then they get a consolation prize of 5 Marks. This will affect players with poor connections, but it is a small price to pay.
Then all those with 20K DPS builds made ONLY for STFs will get the rewards, and anyone with a lesser build (because they're new to Level 50 content, haven't really spent the time/research needed to obtain that level of DPS in that particular piece of content) will still get noting for the run.
There IS an 'AFK monitor system' in the STFs, and it's set to about 1K DPS atm (which I agree is probably a bit low); but there's no 'perfect' solution that wouldn't also punish players who are in fact trying to contribute and be active in an encounter; but don't make the automated 'cut' for rewards at the end.
It's pretty much a constant in MMOs that in general PUGs suck. The best resolution if for people to make friends (or join an active fleet that has members who do the content you like) and do/launch private instances.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Instead of taking action to people going AFK, what you guys think of a system like this :
Every Time you shoot you make points isn't it possible to make a program that count your hits, so you will be paid at your end result. you score 20.000 hits that certain amount off rep points.
The more you shoot and hit a target the more someone will earn...
So that would mean for people going AFK they don't get no rep points at the end...
I think that would be the best option...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Then all those with 20K DPS builds made ONLY for STFs will get the rewards, and anyone with a lesser build (because they're new to Level 50 content, haven't really spent the time/research needed to obtain that level of DPS in that particular piece of content) will still get noting for the run.
There IS an 'AFK monitor system' in the STFs, and it's set to about 1K DPS atm (which I agree is probably a bit low); but there's no 'perfect' solution that wouldn't also punish players who are in fact trying to contribute and be active in an encounter; but don't make the automated 'cut' for rewards at the end.
It's pretty much a constant in MMOs that in general PUGs suck. The best resolution if for people to make friends (or join an active fleet that has members who do the content you like) and do/launch private instances.
You forgot people like me. Who just dont care about doing that much dps.
Then all those with 20K DPS builds made ONLY for STFs will get the rewards, and anyone with a lesser build (because they're new to Level 50 content, haven't really spent the time/research needed to obtain that level of DPS in that particular piece of content) will still get noting for the run.
There IS an 'AFK monitor system' in the STFs, and it's set to about 1K DPS atm (which I agree is probably a bit low); but there's no 'perfect' solution that wouldn't also punish players who are in fact trying to contribute and be active in an encounter; but don't make the automated 'cut' for rewards at the end.
It's pretty much a constant in MMOs that in general PUGs suck. The best resolution if for people to make friends (or join an active fleet that has members who do the content you like) and do/launch private instances.
I wasn't actually aware of an AFK monitor system already in place, heh....
That 1K limit kinda bothers me, though, as my main ship, a Fleet Nebula Retrofit, is geared entirely for Defensive-Support/Tank play(with the Nukara Space set), and 1,600 dps is pushing it for that ship....
Yeah, I support this, but it would have to be a majority vote by the players. Since many of the STF are limited to 5 players that means at 3 players would need to initiate the "boot" so than an AFK'er would be forced out.
Well, while I'm all for making single player pay for their abuse of the system, there's a flip side to this. What about groups of players that abandon 1 player? For instance, I played one of the new undine stfs (can't remember the name) but we weren't making any progress in any one of the lanes. Then I noticed that 1 of the players on my team was missing. OK, so we were short a player. A few minutes later, I noticed that the other players werent even doing anything. They just say there not shooting at anything. Then they all left. So there I was, by myself, and figured it would be a good time to see how my build holds up on its own while I wait for more players to come in. 30 minutes later, nothing. No new players, not even so much as additional NPC ships to help me out. So I said enoughs enough, and left. And got a fracking leaver penalty. How is this fair? It's not just so gle players that ruin it for a group, groups can ruin it for single players.
The best solution for both instances, I think, would be to get rid of leaver and afk penalties, and I.plement a new system. If a player does not do a certain amount of damage (something small, like 2k damage) within a certain amount of time, they get booted, but get no penalty. Also, if they leave voluntarily, there's no penalty. After a players leaves, for whatever reason, a new player should be allowed to enter the current stf, and anything the previous player earned is removed from them and granted to the new player. If the leaver didn't earn anything, the new player is awarded the same amount as the lowest scoring player in that stf, unless they have enough time to earn more.
I'm hoping that one of the Dev's will pick up on this thread and eventually give us the option to collectively vote to kick a member from teams formed via the quick play queue.
"Vote kick" has been proven over and over to be an abuse magnet and generally bad thing, mmmkay?
No to vote kick. Find something that will actually work, and that isn't just an enabler for the abusive.
Yeah, I support this, but it would have to be a majority vote by the players. Since many of the STF are limited to 5 players that means at 3 players would need to initiate the "boot" so than an AFK'er would be forced out.
Yup then you just need 3 elitest fleet members for kicks like "lol tetryon goodbye" this type of BS already happens in other mmos that have this "feature"
"Vote kick" has been proven over and over to be an abuse magnet and generally bad thing, mmmkay?
No to vote kick. Find something that will actually work, and that isn't just an enabler for the abusive.
Well I'm open to ideas so how about instead of a flat "No" how about pitching some ideas. Because I'm betting that everyone who's commented on this thread and will comment has had to deal with this issue at some point. And I'll wager at the possibility that there might be the odd one that under takes the action I'm trying to highlight.
The DPS is a reasonable idea but I've parsed STF's where players haven't broken the 1k mark, but they've given it their best and that's all that can be asked so in that case the DPS log would punish those people.
You forgot people like me. Who just dont care about doing that much dps.
Not to mention sci toons who help out in ways other than sheer firepower. Gravity Well, for one example, doesn't move the DPS meter one bit, but it's one of the most useful abilities to have in any STF.
Well I'm open to ideas so how about instead of a flat "No" how about pitching some ideas.
Because I don't have a corncob shoved into a particular portion of my anatomy about whether random players are "leet" enough to occupy a mission in "my" game. I've got more of a "If you can't handle the PUGs, make some friends and go private or get over yourself" mentality.
Because I don't have a corncob shoved into a particular portion of my anatomy about whether random players are "leet" enough to occupy a mission in "my" game. I've got more of a "If you can't handle the PUGs, make some friends and go private or get over yourself" mentality.
And that's why issues like these never seem to get resolved because of this sort of attitude. But you have no interest in getting these sorted and that's your personal opinion which of course your entitled to and I'll respect that.
They have moderaters watching game don't they at least for chat right? Why don't they have something that when you right click player you can click a tab that they are AFK. Then that alerts them of afk player. Then they make the choice of kicking them not the players. I might not know a lot but it is a idea
I think the chat is software monitored hence the profanity filter and why they had issues a while back with it confusing certain key words with that gold seller spam thing which lead to a fair number of players having to fight cryptic to get their accounts reinstated. But to monitor the entire player base for signs of AFK would be a major undertaking. So really wouldn't be feasible on any sort of scale. I'd hate to think of how many people are participating in STF's at any one time.
I think the chat is software monitored hence the profanity filter and why they had issues a while back with it confusing certain key words with that gold seller spam thing which lead to a fair number of players having to fight cryptic to get their accounts reinstated. But to monitor the entire player base for signs of AFK would be a major undertaking. So really wouldn't be feasible on any sort of scale. I'd hate to think of how many people are participating in STF's at any one time.
True didn't think about that. Then how about that person being flaged as afker for certian amount of time. So when you pug an STF everyone will know and be able to leave without penalty if that is possible.Then he won't be able to get anything. Then he might learn to do something but could be abused also i think
i have been pushing for this for a long time. there needs to be something where the are kicked automatically or that all 4 team members have to agree to kick the player or something. OR if one person logs a AFK/ leeching complaint then they should do an investigation and if it is found they have not contributed then the awards are taken back off the person with a penalty amount as well, such as 3000 dilithium and 25% of their ECS are taken in addition to that the AFK penalty should be increased to 6 hours or something as a deterrent. And lets be honest NO ONE should be against a 6 hour AFK penalty UNLESS you have the intention of going AFK in a match and there is NO EXCUSE. You have to go somewhere in 10 mins? DON'T GO INTO A MATCH, your in a match and get a phone call??? THEN LEAVE THE MATCH, FREE UP THE SPACE FOR SOMEONE ELSE. There should be a level or common sense and common decency when it comes to matches as people work as a team. I know these are not the best ideas in the world. But something needs to be done.
i have been pushing for this for a long time........<stuff>..... But something needs to be done.
Is an AFKer annoying? Yes.
Now, how much more annoying would it be to contribute actively to a fleet action, only to be kicked out 30 seconds from the end by the other four players, because they find it funny?
How much more annoying would it be to enter an STF, to do your best, but to be beaten to the kill everytime by a well tricked out and flown scimitar? And, if the rewards were based on hits, how annoying would it be to lose out because they just out-DPs you?
The way forward isn't to look for ways to punish players, but to encourage them to actively participate.
While not a perfect solution, the CE is possibly a good way forward.
In that event, straight DPS is not the only metric that governs a part of the end reward.
If future fleet actions are designed to strongly support and reward a range of players contributions, then we may see AFKers start to disappear.
How about this - an anti-AFK system that tracks both idleness and how many enemies a player lands a hit on. If you sit idle for a certain amount of time you get auto-kicked, and also if you reach the end of the STF and haven't even touched a minimum number of enemies you lose your rewards. The minimum number would be unique to each STF, and be easily obtainable by even the most clueless science toon.
This means leechers would have to at least move around and shoot stuff to earn a reward. They might as well just play the game.
How about this - an anti-AFK system that tracks both idleness and how many enemies a player lands a hit on. If you sit idle for a certain amount of time you get auto-kicked, and also if you reach the end of the STF and haven't even touched a minimum number of enemies you lose your rewards.
I was in an STF a while back with a relatively new level 50.
There was also two scimitars.
I seriously doubt I killed anything that time, because the scimitars were just melting the face off everything.
I tried to participate, I did my best, but they killed things faster than I could get into a firing solution.
Under your system, someone like me in that situation could potentially walk away with nothing.
I don't think thats any more right than putting up with an AFKer.
Alright maybe it isn't fair but I was with a group of starfleet's and one KDF, the KDF decided to head off exploring space so we followed him the whole time. we decided to stick with him the whole time until the STF failed big time we had no points but he didn't had any also.
So if you noticed a team member who doesn't work you just let the mission fail is just that simple you will get no points but either does he.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I was in an STF a while back with a relatively new level 50.
There was also two scimitars.
I seriously doubt I killed anything that time, because the scimitars were just melting the face off everything.
I tried to participate, I did my best, but they killed things faster than I could get into a firing solution.
Under your system, someone like me in that situation could potentially walk away with nothing.
I don't think thats any more right than putting up with an AFKer.
You wouldn't need to kill anything, just land a hit on a minimum # of enemies. I have played with scimi's too and they don't make things disappear instantly. Even the thalaron blast doesn't one shot NPC's.
If in an STF or Rep mission the timer runs out or things happen what shouldn't be happening like letting 10 nodes get true the mission fails it's just that simple.
So my suggestion if you notice someone going ewald ( AFK ) speak to your teammates about it if it does not change suggest to let the mission fail if they agree with you you just all stop doing anything get shot down and stay there until the mission failed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
You wouldn't need to kill anything, just land a hit on a minimum # of enemies. I have played with scimi's too and they don't make things disappear instantly. Even the thalaron blast doesn't one shot NPC's.
Depends on how you setup the scimitar build, I have seen scimitar's take out borg portals in literally seconds, thanks to the scimitar's build we did a khitomer accord in literally 5 mins flat, I have no idea how or why but it happened, it took him literally to take down the tac cube in the beginning 10 secs we did the shield gens he took the cubes out in under 8 secs. then the portal itself life drained faster than i ever seen, it took him 17,5 seconds to take down the portal then we raced to the other side same story, then the borg scimitars. it was taken down under 25 secs and mission was done we all had a WOW factor even some said I need a scimitar.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Comments
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
People will boot other for a lark. Also, I don't want that level of interaction.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Exposing fakes since 2374
That might be an idea. I've got nothing against new players. But the last one that was doing that prompted me to make the original post was in a Vesta and part of an established fleet and made no attempt to kill anything past the first few ships. And when they finally died because the group pulled a mob over to them they didn't even bother respawning. Not only does this sort of action annoy other players but also reflects badly on their fleet. Mine has taken action against fleet members that have done this thing in the past. But I do agree that there are people out there that would abuse any feature that would allow a group to kick a member. But there has to be some sort of compromise that can be reached that will deter this kind of behaviour by a very small number of the player base.
Then all those with 20K DPS builds made ONLY for STFs will get the rewards, and anyone with a lesser build (because they're new to Level 50 content, haven't really spent the time/research needed to obtain that level of DPS in that particular piece of content) will still get noting for the run.
There IS an 'AFK monitor system' in the STFs, and it's set to about 1K DPS atm (which I agree is probably a bit low); but there's no 'perfect' solution that wouldn't also punish players who are in fact trying to contribute and be active in an encounter; but don't make the automated 'cut' for rewards at the end.
It's pretty much a constant in MMOs that in general PUGs suck. The best resolution if for people to make friends (or join an active fleet that has members who do the content you like) and do/launch private instances.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Every Time you shoot you make points isn't it possible to make a program that count your hits, so you will be paid at your end result. you score 20.000 hits that certain amount off rep points.
The more you shoot and hit a target the more someone will earn...
So that would mean for people going AFK they don't get no rep points at the end...
I think that would be the best option...
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
You forgot people like me. Who just dont care about doing that much dps.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
I wasn't actually aware of an AFK monitor system already in place, heh....
That 1K limit kinda bothers me, though, as my main ship, a Fleet Nebula Retrofit, is geared entirely for Defensive-Support/Tank play(with the Nukara Space set), and 1,600 dps is pushing it for that ship....
I am against vote kick because it it too open to abuse, and has been in other games that have it.
The best solution for both instances, I think, would be to get rid of leaver and afk penalties, and I.plement a new system. If a player does not do a certain amount of damage (something small, like 2k damage) within a certain amount of time, they get booted, but get no penalty. Also, if they leave voluntarily, there's no penalty. After a players leaves, for whatever reason, a new player should be allowed to enter the current stf, and anything the previous player earned is removed from them and granted to the new player. If the leaver didn't earn anything, the new player is awarded the same amount as the lowest scoring player in that stf, unless they have enough time to earn more.
"Vote kick" has been proven over and over to be an abuse magnet and generally bad thing, mmmkay?
No to vote kick. Find something that will actually work, and that isn't just an enabler for the abusive.
Yup then you just need 3 elitest fleet members for kicks like "lol tetryon goodbye" this type of BS already happens in other mmos that have this "feature"
Well I'm open to ideas so how about instead of a flat "No" how about pitching some ideas. Because I'm betting that everyone who's commented on this thread and will comment has had to deal with this issue at some point. And I'll wager at the possibility that there might be the odd one that under takes the action I'm trying to highlight.
The DPS is a reasonable idea but I've parsed STF's where players haven't broken the 1k mark, but they've given it their best and that's all that can be asked so in that case the DPS log would punish those people.
Not to mention sci toons who help out in ways other than sheer firepower. Gravity Well, for one example, doesn't move the DPS meter one bit, but it's one of the most useful abilities to have in any STF.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
Because I don't have a corncob shoved into a particular portion of my anatomy about whether random players are "leet" enough to occupy a mission in "my" game. I've got more of a "If you can't handle the PUGs, make some friends and go private or get over yourself" mentality.
And that's why issues like these never seem to get resolved because of this sort of attitude. But you have no interest in getting these sorted and that's your personal opinion which of course your entitled to and I'll respect that.
True didn't think about that. Then how about that person being flaged as afker for certian amount of time. So when you pug an STF everyone will know and be able to leave without penalty if that is possible.Then he won't be able to get anything. Then he might learn to do something but could be abused also i think
Is an AFKer annoying? Yes.
Now, how much more annoying would it be to contribute actively to a fleet action, only to be kicked out 30 seconds from the end by the other four players, because they find it funny?
How much more annoying would it be to enter an STF, to do your best, but to be beaten to the kill everytime by a well tricked out and flown scimitar? And, if the rewards were based on hits, how annoying would it be to lose out because they just out-DPs you?
The way forward isn't to look for ways to punish players, but to encourage them to actively participate.
While not a perfect solution, the CE is possibly a good way forward.
In that event, straight DPS is not the only metric that governs a part of the end reward.
If future fleet actions are designed to strongly support and reward a range of players contributions, then we may see AFKers start to disappear.
This means leechers would have to at least move around and shoot stuff to earn a reward. They might as well just play the game.
I was in an STF a while back with a relatively new level 50.
There was also two scimitars.
I seriously doubt I killed anything that time, because the scimitars were just melting the face off everything.
I tried to participate, I did my best, but they killed things faster than I could get into a firing solution.
Under your system, someone like me in that situation could potentially walk away with nothing.
I don't think thats any more right than putting up with an AFKer.
So if you noticed a team member who doesn't work you just let the mission fail is just that simple you will get no points but either does he.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
You wouldn't need to kill anything, just land a hit on a minimum # of enemies. I have played with scimi's too and they don't make things disappear instantly. Even the thalaron blast doesn't one shot NPC's.
If in an STF or Rep mission the timer runs out or things happen what shouldn't be happening like letting 10 nodes get true the mission fails it's just that simple.
So my suggestion if you notice someone going ewald ( AFK ) speak to your teammates about it if it does not change suggest to let the mission fail if they agree with you you just all stop doing anything get shot down and stay there until the mission failed.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Depends on how you setup the scimitar build, I have seen scimitar's take out borg portals in literally seconds, thanks to the scimitar's build we did a khitomer accord in literally 5 mins flat, I have no idea how or why but it happened, it took him literally to take down the tac cube in the beginning 10 secs we did the shield gens he took the cubes out in under 8 secs. then the portal itself life drained faster than i ever seen, it took him 17,5 seconds to take down the portal then we raced to the other side same story, then the borg scimitars. it was taken down under 25 secs and mission was done we all had a WOW factor even some said I need a scimitar.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."