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kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
Ive been fiddling around with the two following set ups

Vesta with a Chroniton Dual Beam Bank and an Antiproton Dual Beam Bank with Acc, CritH and Dmg, with the Cutting Beam an Omni Antiproton beam, Gravemetric Torp in the back, Bio Molecular Torp upfront, Proton Particle Stabilizer, 3 green quality Mk XI Antiproton damage consoles

The other build is Dual Heavy Phaser Cannons x2 and the Bio Torp upfront, Fleet Phaser Turrets in the aft and the Gravemetric Torp in the aft to, Proton Particle Stablizer (this is there for the buff to PHoton torp damage), and 3 Blue Quality Mk XI Phaser Relays.

Now here is my question.....why does it take a noticably longer time for the Cannon build to kill two Orion Corvettes that are side by side then the Dual Beam set up?

This is aggrivating me because for a long time Ive been told that Cannon weapons have higher damage output then beams do so....what the heck?
Post edited by kaeaja on

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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Cannons do better damage once you're on target, but with your beams the wider fire arc means you're shooting sooner and tracking longer as you and your target maneuver. Cannons also have more skills that just flat out boost their damage, but since you're in a Vesta those skills aren't coming into play as much.
  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Cannons do better damage once you're on target, but with your beams the wider fire arc means you're shooting sooner and tracking longer as you and your target maneuver. Cannons also have more skills that just flat out boost their damage, but since you're in a Vesta those skills aren't coming into play as much.

    What does being in the vesta have to do with it. It uses cannons and is ment to use them and easily supports their use. Further more my targets are the 4 Orion Corvettes in the Stranded in Space mission when you first enter the area, the Dual Beam set up is killing them faster then the Dual Heavy Build and all my shots are always on target, nothings missing so whats going on?
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What boff skills are you using?

    When I flew a Vesta, I found dropping a GW3 and then using APB+CSV would quickly smoke any group of ships in seconds.
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  • groomofweirdgroomofweird Member Posts: 1,045 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    At a quick glance I would simply say your beam weapons setup is more effective than your cannon setup in that you will be critting more with your beam setup.
    It also depends on your boff power loadout and where you have your skillpoints in relation to all that, there are many variables. For example, in pve against smaller foes your proc on your phaser weapons may disable their weapons. Irrelevent if you are in control and easily asskicking, whereas a crit from you AP proc...much more handy.
    With your AP build at least you have a more effective higher damage crit potential.
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  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Is this with the proper tactical consoles?
    Cannon rapid fire vs beam fire at will?
    How close to target are you?
    How many rest runs did you do?
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  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lan451 wrote: »
    What boff skills are you using?

    When I flew a Vesta, I found dropping a GW3 and then using APB+CSV would quickly smoke any group of ships in seconds.

    Im not using any boffs that favor a beam build or a cannon build, and im not using GW3 or APB, all im doing is with the cannon build using CSV2, Torp Spread 3 and for the Dual Beam build im using Fire at Will 2 and Torp Spread 3, for some strange reason, the corvettes are dying slower against the cannon set up even though I know for a fact that shouldnt be possible.
  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Is this with the proper tactical consoles?
    Cannon rapid fire vs beam fire at will?
    How close to target are you?
    How many rest runs did you do?

    Uhh proper tac consoles? Im getting pretty darn close, and what do you mean by rest runs? Further mote I know that Beams and Cannons are both effected by how close you are to the targets.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    Im not using any boffs that favor a beam build or a cannon build, and im not using GW3 or APB, all im doing is with the cannon build using CSV2, Torp Spread 3 and for the Dual Beam build im using Fire at Will 2 and Torp Spread 3, for some strange reason, the corvettes are dying slower against the cannon set up even though I know for a fact that shouldnt be possible.

    Why not? Your weapon choice only carries you so far. Your boff skills built around those weapons is what really makes them shine.
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  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lan451 wrote: »
    Why not? Your weapon choice only carries you so far. Your boff skills built around those weapons is what really makes them shine.

    Oh woops I thought you ment Doffs im sorry, I even ment to say Doffs. I am using Boff skills, Beam Array Fire at Will 2 and Torp Spread 3 for the Dual Beam build, and Torp Spread 3 and Cannon Scatter Volley 2 for Cannons, for some strange reason the beams are killing the 2 sets of 2 orion corvettes faster then the cannons are every time, I know that this shouldnt be because cannons which have so narrow of a firing arc and drain a bit more weapon energy ought to be out damaging the beams.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    Oh woops I thought you ment Doffs im sorry, I even ment to say Doffs. I am using Boff skills, Beam Array Fire at Will 2 and Torp Spread 3 for the Dual Beam build, and Torp Spread 3 and Cannon Scatter Volley 2 for Cannons, for some strange reason the beams are killing the 2 sets of 2 orion corvettes faster then the cannons are every time, I know that this shouldnt be because cannons which have so narrow of a firing arc and drain a bit more weapon energy ought to be out damaging the beams.

    Ah I see.

    In that case, try using the same energy type. Putting AP up against phasers is most likely throwing you off. Also I see you have the AP omni beam, are you using the Obelisk core with it? That gives another +10% AP damage from the 2 piece bonus.
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  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lan451 wrote: »
    Ah I see.

    In that case, try using the same energy type. Putting AP up against phasers is most likely throwing you off. Also I see you have the AP omni beam, are you using the Obelisk core with it? That gives another +10% AP damage from the 2 piece bonus.

    Im not using that core, the reason im doing this is because im comparing my Vesta's damage output with Dual Phaser Heavy Cannons with Fleet Phaser Turrets up against the build im using with my Wells Temporal Sci ship which is using the Chroniton Dual Beams and Antiproton Dual Beam build, and then I started switching between those same builds on the Vesta itself and for reasons I cannot fathom the dual beam set up is killing faster even though again I know for fact that cannons are supposed to be hitting harder. So I attribute this to two things 1) Cannon shots have a noticably longer and slower travel time then beams do and 2) It must be due to the fact that Antiproton Weapons crit like crazy.
  • chezmazterchezmazter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It may be how far away you are. DBBs do higher DPS than DHCs from 6-7km outward, get within the 5km range and things should be dropping like flies with DHCs. And, as someone else said, try a crowd crontrol build. Grav Well and two scatter volleys. Or a shutdown/DPS build. Viral Matrix and other energy disabling things along with two rapid fires.
  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It would be really nice if Cryptic added something to STO that allows you to test things against enemies in an enviroment you control. Like what they do in Champions Online in the Powerhouse training area, its got those target dummies and the virtual reality room. I mean come on we have Holodecks lets do something useful with them -.-
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,454 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'd be curious what the difference would be if you swapped out the Omni-AP and KCB arrays for a pair of turrets on the back.
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    It would be really nice if Cryptic added something to STO that allows you to test things against enemies in an enviroment you control. Like what they do in Champions Online in the Powerhouse training area, its got those target dummies and the virtual reality room. I mean come on we have Holodecks lets do something useful with them -.-

    if only you had started a thrad about that.. oh, wait, you DID...


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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    personally, OP, if you are not using the dual aux cannons then IMHO you are doing it wrong. the Vesta was designed for minimal weapons power
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  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    personally, OP, if you are not using the dual aux cannons then IMHO you are doing it wrong. the Vesta was designed for minimal weapons power

    Hahaha gotta love people who make assumptions. First off I made the comment about a training area here in this thread first, then decided to make a dedicated thread for it when I realized that it was out of place here and the topic title was not set for it. Secondly I use the Dual Aux Heavy Cannons on the Vesta. Ask questions before you assume to know what others are talking about or you make yourself look foolish.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    Hahaha gotta love people who make assumptions. First off I made the comment about a training area here in this thread first, then decided to make a dedicated thread for it when I realized that it was out of place here and the topic title was not set for it. Secondly I use the Dual Aux Heavy Cannons on the Vesta. Ask questions before you assume to know what others are talking about or you make yourself look foolish.

    and you also mentioned beams. don't attack her for getting a case of butthurt. you look like a child.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    Secondly I use the Dual Aux Heavy Cannons on the Vesta. Ask questions before you assume to know what others are talking about or you make yourself look foolish.



    Well, there you go.

    Aux Cannons use Aux Power. Turrets use Weapon Power.

    Dual Beam Banks, and the Omni-AP use Weapon Power.

    You would be doing less damage with the former because your Power Levels are either split between the two or full for one and empty for the other. The latter set-up uses full power levels for both.
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    My guess is that the OP is making the same "mistake" many other players do (even long time players) That is, confusing DPV and DPS

    Dual Beam Banks and Dual Heavy Cannons actually have very similar damage output, with DHC's only slightly higher, however over the course of a battle, due to the power level drops and spikes, Dual Beam Banks can out damage DHC's.

    Power management is the key! My guess is that what the OP is seeing is a result of a build slightly more efficient when running Beams vs Cannons, so the Beams are doing slightly more damage over the course of a whole battle.

    Not forgetting also, that cannon damage drops off quicker than beam damage does as the distance to target increses, so depending how far away you are during your volleys, again, beams can end up doing more damage than cannons.

    This may be why many Captains are switching from cannons, back to beams.
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  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    and you also mentioned beams. don't attack her for getting a case of butthurt. you look like a child.

    I said beams and cannons, its not my fault she made an assumption rather then ask me first.
  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    Well, there you go.

    Aux Cannons use Aux Power. Turrets use Weapon Power.

    Dual Beam Banks, and the Omni-AP use Weapon Power.

    You would be doing less damage with the former because your Power Levels are either split between the two or full for one and empty for the other. The latter set-up uses full power levels for both.

    I know that, I always have Aux power levels at maximum when I'm using my Vesta, I run with 130/100 Aux power on my Vesta.
  • jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If i remember correctly Scatter Volley is far less effective against small numbers of ships than Fire at will. Maybe thats the problem.

    (More experienced players feel free to correct and shred this comment if it is inaccurate)
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kaeaja wrote: »
    I know that, I always have Aux power levels at maximum when I'm using my Vesta, I run with 130/100 Aux power on my Vesta.



    As in 130 Weapon Power and 100 Aux Power? If so, then I am not sure what to tell you.

    If you mean between 130 and 100 Aux Power, then less damage would be from the rear Turrets, which don't use Aux, putting out less damage. That would drop the over-all attack power of the ship.
  • kaeajakaeaja Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    As in 130 Weapon Power and 100 Aux Power? If so, then I am not sure what to tell you.

    If you mean between 130 and 100 Aux Power, then less damage would be from the rear Turrets, which don't use Aux, putting out less damage. That would drop the over-all attack power of the ship.

    No...literally when I look at the power distribution window on the HuD it shows my Aux power as 130 but the actual display shows it as 130/100, 130 being my maximum aux power and whatever the 100 is supposed to mean on the aux subsystem.
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