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What Cryptic could have done...

dark4blooddark4blood Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
So, with the trait and dilithium nerf one has to ask when will Cryptic stop taking the lazy way out?

When videos continued to launch with the Scimitar doing Elite Space Borg STFs in 1:30 seconds, the first thing that comes to mind for Cryptic is nerf. The problem with this is there was another way, actually make Elite Space STFs Elite by doing a revamp much like Mirror Universe. What is funny about this is Mirror Universe didn't need a revamp, but the Elite Space Borg STFs have needed one for a while. Why you ask, I will list some things wrong with the Elite Space version of the Borg STFs.

1. Missing Borg drain shield pulse ability already in the game. I have always wondered why Borg sector invasion cubes, the weakest cubes in the game, have a drain ability that neither the Cube or Tactical cube have in Elite Space STF missions? It really never made sense to me and it would easily make Elite STF mission harder and give healers and tanks a purpose.

2. Where the **** are the tactical Spheres? This is another VERY easy upgrade that would be for Elite only, and they could have a different way of fighting than the regular spheres. http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_sphere

3. Since the story is saying the Voth were being assaulted by the Borg, where are the fruits of assimilating some of the Voth? The Borg could easily have a neutralization technique of the strongest weapon damage when dropping below 50% health, this would be what...Adaptation! Such a unique idea for the Borg! This would also, stop alot of DPS runs as the strongest weapon type would become useless at 50% health. This would obviously not apply to spheres and the gate but it makes absolute sense for Cubes and especially the tactical Cube.

4. Change the way the enemy fights, it has really bothered me that Cryptic uses the exact same battle methods for Normal and Elite, no other MMO does this. When there are Elite mission in other MMOs, the whole battle changes, not just enemy upgrades. This again goes into my lazy category but I bet when the defense department of players read this they will make up an excuse for them.

Making Borg Elite STFs harder make significantly more sense than nerf reputations and reducing the amount of reputation usable. The main reason why making these changes would have helped the game is because that fresh coat of paint would have made replaying these missions worthwhile for both old and new players. Secondly, the recent applied nerf to both dilithium grinding and rep system would have been unnecessary.
Post edited by dark4blood on
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  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    So, with the trait and dilithium nerf one has to ask when will Cryptic stop taking the lazy way out?

    When videos continued to launch with the Scimitar doing Elite Space Borg STFs in 1:30 seconds, the first thing that comes to mind for Cryptic is nerf. The problem with this is there was another way, actually make Elite Space STFs Elite by doing a revamp much like Mirror Universe. What is funny about this is Mirror Universe didn't need a revamp, but the Elite Space Borg STFs have needed one for a while. Why you ask, I will list some things wrong with the Elite Space version of the Borg STFs.

    No Idea what you are babbeling about sir, as far as I'm concerned you still earn 960 Dillitium with STF that stuff didn't change.
    1. Missing Borg drain shield pulse ability already in the game. I have always wondered why Borg sector invasion cubes, the weakest cubes in the game, have a drain ability that neither the Cube or Tactical cube have in Elite Space STF missions? It really never made sense to me and it would easily make Elite STF mission harder and give healers and tanks a purpose.

    Sorry you missed it because a T-Cube and Cube does drain your shields with his tractorbeam !!
    And the cuttingbeam can make serious damage when your shield is drained !!
    2. Where the **** are the tactical Spheres? This is another VERY easy upgrade that would be for Elite only, and they could have a different way of fighting than the regular spheres. http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_sphere

    For most players 3 spheres is hard enough to take down before reaching there goal, so what you want is a big NO NO !!
    3. Since the story is saying the Voth were being assaulted by the Borg, where are the fruits of assimilating some of the Voth? The Borg could easily have a neutralization technique of the strongest weapon damage when dropping below 50% health, this would be what...Adaptation! Such a unique idea for the Borg! This would also, stop alot of DPS runs as the strongest weapon type would become useless at 50% health. This would obviously not apply to spheres and the gate but it makes absolute sense for Cubes and especially the tactical Cube.

    NO just NO read the Dev Blogs better they where asaulted by the undine not the Borg !!!
    4. Change the way the enemy fights, it has really bothered me that Cryptic uses the exact same battle methods for Normal and Elite, no other MMO does this. When there are Elite mission in other MMOs, the whole battle changes, not just enemy upgrades. This again goes into my lazy category but I bet when the defense department of players read this they will make up an excuse for them.

    The Borg fight diferent because dificulty changes well that's odd as far as I can remember they didn't change tactics they atack in force if they must, Borg stay the same and if you are a trekkie you should know this.
    Making Borg Elite STFs harder make significantly more sense than nerf reputations and reducing the amount of reputation usable. The main reason why making these changes would have helped the game is because that fresh coat of paint would have made replaying these missions worthwhile for both old and new players. Secondly, the recent applied nerf to both dilithium grinding and rep system would have been unnecessary.

    I do not agree with your conclusion, and making it harder only would spoile the fun so for me no thanks on your tread and if you folowed pod casts for the time being you have to do with what you have they will not change the STF as it is. See last episode of Stoked Radio !!!

    http://www.livestream.com/stokedradio/video?clipId=pla_d5990076-ec79-4ef3-9f0b-2cd347b48919&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    So, with the trait and dilithium nerf one has to ask when will Cryptic stop taking the lazy way out?

    When videos continued to launch with the Scimitar doing Elite Space Borg STFs in 1:30 seconds, the first thing that comes to mind for Cryptic is nerf. The problem with this is there was another way, actually make Elite Space STFs Elite by doing a revamp much like Mirror Universe. What is funny about this is Mirror Universe didn't need a revamp, but the Elite Space Borg STFs have needed one for a while. Why you ask, I will list some things wrong with the Elite Space version of the Borg STFs.

    1. Missing Borg drain shield pulse ability already in the game. I have always wondered why Borg sector invasion cubes, the weakest cubes in the game, have a drain ability that neither the Cube or Tactical cube have in Elite Space STF missions? It really never made sense to me and it would easily make Elite STF mission harder and give healers and tanks a purpose.

    2. Where the **** are the tactical Spheres? This is another VERY easy upgrade that would be for Elite only, and they could have a different way of fighting than the regular spheres. http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_sphere

    3. Since the story is saying the Voth were being assaulted by the Borg, where are the fruits of assimilating some of the Voth? The Borg could easily have a neutralization technique of the strongest weapon damage when dropping below 50% health, this would be what...Adaptation! Such a unique idea for the Borg! This would also, stop alot of DPS runs as the strongest weapon type would become useless at 50% health. This would obviously not apply to spheres and the gate but it makes absolute sense for Cubes and especially the tactical Cube.

    4. Change the way the enemy fights, it has really bothered me that Cryptic uses the exact same battle methods for Normal and Elite, no other MMO does this. When there are Elite mission in other MMOs, the whole battle changes, not just enemy upgrades. This again goes into my lazy category but I bet when the defense department of players read this they will make up an excuse for them.

    Making Borg Elite STFs harder make significantly more sense than nerf reputations and reducing the amount of reputation usable. The main reason why making these changes would have helped the game is because that fresh coat of paint would have made replaying these missions worthwhile for both old and new players. Secondly, the recent applied nerf to both dilithium grinding and rep system would have been unnecessary.

    I agree. Some people don't want the difficulty. I do. The borg should rotate the abilities with any one of the faction since they assimiliate.

    Cloaked spheres with quantum manipulation.
    Tactical Sphere with Proton barrage.
    Tactical Cube with singularity jump.
  • neos472neos472 Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    what are ya thinking?! almost everything is wrong that you said while i would like an extra challenge what ya listed is really not the way to go have ya had the cutting beam/borg torps/ plasma weaponry hit you while the shields were out if not then it hurts badly might even one shot ships in which people would rage about just no.
    manipulator of time and long time space traveler
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    No Idea what you are babbeling about sir, as far as I'm concerned you still earn 960 Dillitium with STF that stuff didn't change.

    He's talking about the nerf to Borg implant drops, which means fewer implants to turn into dil with a rep project.

    EDIT: Ninja'd.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    No Idea what you are babbeling about sir, as far as I'm concerned you still earn 960 Dillitium with STF that stuff didn't change.



    Sorry you missed it because a T-Cube and Cube does drain your shields with his tractorbeam !!
    And the cuttingbeam can make serious damage when your shield is drained !!



    For most players 3 spheres is hard enough to take down before reaching there goal, so what you want is a big NO NO !!


    NO just NO read the Dev Blogs better they where asaulted by the undine not the Borg !!!


    The Borg fight diferent because dificulty changes well that's odd as far as I can remember they didn't change tactics they atack in force if they must, Borg stay the same and if you are a trekkie you should know this.


    I do not agree with your conclusion, and making it harder only would spoile the fun so for me no thanks on your tread and if you folowed pod casts for the time being you have to do with what you have they will not change the STF as it is. See last episode of Stoked Radio !!!

    http://www.livestream.com/stokedradio/video?clipId=pla_d5990076-ec79-4ef3-9f0b-2cd347b48919&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

    For the dillithium: it has been heavyl nerded. Most Ppl make them for the Marks and those neural things that can be exchanged for dillithium.
    Well beside the bonus package you now get less marks and there is no chance any more to get more then one processor (there was a chance for 6 or 11 before).
    And that has a very heavy impact.

    For the rest I agree.

    The thing with the stfs is:
    A. They are not that easy. But after beeing more or less the only "end content" we had for... Well ever. So at this point most players know what to do. Every content is easy when you know what to do.
    B. exploiting means using game mechanics in a way they are not supposed to be used. That's the difference towards cheating. To put it easy: a scimitar doing an stf in 1.30 minutes alone.. That is not the way a scimitar should be used nor the way stfs are supposed to be used, no matter what the player does exactly.
    So any change done to prevent should be done in a way that prevents that particular exploit without harming the "normal" player.
    Because I can not do an stf alone in kess then 2 minutes. Most ppl can't. So they should look into what makes that particular players as strong and "fix" that or they'll have to live with ppl beeing able to do that but making it insanely hard to adapt to exploiters is stupid. (Which pity fully makes it likely that they'll do exactly that :( )
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I never noticed dilithium nerfed, in fact i gather more now. You have, for example the foundry missions, that gives you 960 extra dilithium besides a large ammount doing the whole foundry mission. Because now it is a new mission in your tab, "officer reports", so now yo gain even more dilithium doing foundry missions. And i didnt notice anything weird in the queue rewards.

    About the Borg, they are ridiculous weak, we all know that. But the problem is, undine are weak as well, romulans are weak as well, and i cound go on. Every single NPC on this game is weak.

    The problem is, if you put a cube with its real firewpoer and abilities , you will not last more than 5 seconds even with a scimitar in your hands. So the solution is, to make em really stupid.

    People with garbaje equpiment anyways will never be able to kill 3 spheres, for example. But people with decent XI equpimen or better, can kill 3 spheres and even a cube lol. I did it by myself with my breenwarship when i only had uncommon and rare items, no reputation, mission items or fleet ones.

    About the tractor beam and the drain shield thing, dude i dunno what borgs did you fight, but that is one of the most annyoing things the borg does to you, almost every time. They drain your shields constantly, and it is the most used borg attack. But, as dangerous at that seems, its not. The only thing they will do is drain your shields, but if they dont shot you, who cares???

    Thata ability is a AoE ability. This means the borg can do it to a multiple targets, but it doesnt mean they are actually firing at those targets.
  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I know what he is babbling about and its not gonna happen, and insulting me won't get you what you want sir, this thread can close as far as I'm concern and maybe a fraction on your behavior to but that's not for me to decide ....

    Thank you kindly
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek.

    I decided to take you up on your advice and look up the word babble in a dictionary.

    Oddly enough there was no mention of baby talk in reference to the word.
    bab·ble (băb′əl)
    v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
    v.intr.
    1. To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds: Babies babble before they can talk.
    2. To talk foolishly or idly; chatter: "In 1977 [he] was thought of as crazy because he was babbling about supply side" (Newt Gingrich).
    3. To make a continuous low, murmuring sound, as flowing water.
    v.tr.
    1. To utter rapidly and indistinctly.
    2. To blurt out impulsively; disclose without careful consideration.
    n.
    1. Inarticulate or meaningless talk or sounds.
    2. Idle or foolish talk; chatter.
    3. A continuous low, murmuring sound, as of flowing water.

    I'm not sure where you got the idea that babble was related to the word baby or babbling was baby talk.

    But now that we're in the middle of this complete topic derailment, can we all just calm down a little bit?

    Insulting each other isn't going to do anything but get the thread locked eventually. Who cares who insulted who first? Escalating the insults detracts from everything. And then the thread starts to look like a tower of incoherent ... BABEL.

    :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I wasn't meaning to insult anyone to this day only wish the OP did research before starting a thread like this, STF is good as it is and I should know because after Season 9 launched I did a few rounds on the STF and I still make a good payment of dilithium. So yes I said he is babbling because his tread is not as sound as the OP claims !!!

    And my english is not good because it's not my first language so I do the best I can, but because I disagree with the OP he takes that to insult me very weak I must say.

    Thank you snukk I agree with you !!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
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  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^The only ability I said to add was the pulse one, while I think the Borg should adapt during the game, I am being programmer realistic, so adding tactical Spheres and adding the drain shield pulse with health reduction adaption for cubes ONLY would make the game more challenging WITHOUT being cheap, and it would have prevented these ridiculous nerfs.

    I agree. The Borg should be adapt in space fights. But there is no point on talking about that, a lot of logic and sense is lost since ages ago. As i said, STO is not even 70% star trek anymore. You could make the borg fights about 1 cube and a sphere, for example, and they should be really hard to kill. Instead of that, you have tons of cubes, millions of spheres that can be destroyed in 2 seconds. That is cryptic's way.
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^ So now you are unable to use a dictionary

    Uh, I did use a dictionary.
    Now you could say your INSULT was number 2,

    ?

    You're going to have to dig to find my insult. Please find any post in this thread where I insulted you. And point it out. Take your time. I'll wait.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I agree. The Borg should be adapt in space fights.

    It's not a good mechanic for a game.

    Look at how it works on ground.

    Doing that in space will take up a device slot and really just force you to click another button.

    That's not fun for anyone.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zeus#0893 zeus Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    I know what he is babbling about and its not gonna happen, and insulting me won't get you what you want sir, this thread can close as far as I'm concern and maybe a fraction on your behavior to but that's not for me to decide ....

    Thank you kindly

    kirk2390,

    You started the insults by saying his is "babbling". So if you don't want to be insulted back, don't sling the insults out first.

    Constructive criticism is the proper way to reply back.

    He pointed out that the "nerf" is in the removal of the extra processors which were used to turn into dil once your character got all it wanted from the rep. And yes it is a BIG NERF IMO and a lot of others here.

    So let's keep this civil in tone and remember he was pointing it out to Cryptic not just you. Also who are you and how do you have such insight into what Cryptic is going to do or not? Are an employee of Cryptic or PWE? Do you speak for them? Should we only listen to your opinions here?

    Well I think I can answer all of the above with one word... NO!

    You know I am really very tried of the "CDF" always slamming their opinions on the rest of us!

    And you sir, seem to be a totally "brainwashed" member of the "CDF"

    Zeus
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^I agree that the ground version of adaptation won't work, that is why I suggested that for Cubes at 25% health they become immune to the most damaging energy type being used. For Tactical Cubes at 50% health they become immune to the most damaging energy type being used, this would have a 15 second run time with a 30 second cooldown for the Borg. Basiclally this would show that the Borg are adapting to the fight as it happens as the most damaging energy type would change if people died in that window.
    Also you need to keep in mind that, on ground, adaptation has an out. You can melee them to death instead of remodulating. you idea works for groups with multiple weapon types, but not well in solo.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yawn. What a dismal thread. So many dead horses. We will have to have a funeral.
    Also you need to keep in mind that, on ground, adaptation has an out. You can melee them to death instead of remodulating. you idea works for groups with multiple weapon types, but not well in solo.

    Depends on the weapon really.
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's not a good mechanic for a game.

    Look at how it works on ground.

    Doing that in space will take up a device slot and really just force you to click another button.

    That's not fun for anyone.

    Is not my problem that cryptic dont have enough skills to make it work.

    But that is the way it should be. It will take a device slot?? ooo.OOOO , dont you use other devices in there? whats the big deal?
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Captains, may I remind you...?
    Flaming and/or Trolling
    You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
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    Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action.

    Further violations of forum rules will result in warnings and possible thread closure.
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  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Is not my problem that cryptic dont have enough skills to make it work.

    But that is the way it should be. It will take a device slot?? ooo.OOOO , dont you use other devices in there? whats the big deal?

    No it's not. Adaptation isn't fun. It's not supposed to be fun.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Is not my problem that cryptic dont have enough skills to make it work.

    It is when people keep requesting for it to be placed into a Cryptic game. It's not eve that Cryptic lacks the skills. It's that the effect doesn't translate to video game play. What people want is to feel like the borg are a scary threat like they were in the shows. But that's a story telling device, not a gameplay mechanic. There's just no way to mimic that.

    I remember the first time I fought a dragon in everquest. It felt epic. It WAS epic.

    The last time I killed a dragon in Everquest, I was solo and killed it like it was a rat, bat or bug like I used to do at level 3. That's the difference between a storytelling device (dragons are wooo, scary and big) and a video game mechanic (that same dragon when you've outlevelled it it just pixels).
    But that is the way it should be.

    No, not really. This is still a game and what you want won't translate into the game.
    It will take a device slot?? ooo.OOOO , dont you use other devices in there? whats the big deal?

    It's a big deal because just like on the ground, it takes up a slot and gets used for nothing special. Remodulating doesn't make the borg feel anymore like the borg.

    They've tried three times now to appease player requests to make the borg scary big bad villains.

    And here we are with remodulation, and STFs like ISE.

    The borg are mooks. And kind of have to be.

    It's just not a plausible mechanic to work in this game. I say enjoy the borg on the shows and get your scary borg fix there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,535 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I cant see why cryptic bothered nerfing traits that added a minor edge now and then & here and there when they are bringing out more powerful weapons with every update and more sets that give bonus trait type powers with each part you have from the set.
    it all sounds like one step back and three steps forwards as far as power creep is concerned.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

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