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Shield/Engine/Warp Layout for Survivability
cancellera
Member Posts: 77 Arc User
Hi guys,
My first 'proper' shield/engine/warp core layout fas the Dyson set. It served me well. Recently, I've been trying to get Fleet versions because of the bonus power.
However, this means I have to give up the Dyson's "reactive shielding" ability. So far, the Fleet renegenerative shield has not been very good, even against PvE.
Which shield/engine/warp offers the best survivability while still giving strong weapon power? Auxiliary and engines are secondary.
I run an Avenger cruiser. Fairly strong hull, fast speed, and fast turn rate. It's also equipped with fleet weapons, hull armor, and the turn rate enhancer.
My first 'proper' shield/engine/warp core layout fas the Dyson set. It served me well. Recently, I've been trying to get Fleet versions because of the bonus power.
However, this means I have to give up the Dyson's "reactive shielding" ability. So far, the Fleet renegenerative shield has not been very good, even against PvE.
Which shield/engine/warp offers the best survivability while still giving strong weapon power? Auxiliary and engines are secondary.
I run an Avenger cruiser. Fairly strong hull, fast speed, and fast turn rate. It's also equipped with fleet weapons, hull armor, and the turn rate enhancer.
Post edited by cancellera on
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How? I've seen it around on youtube but I have no idea how to get that combination.
This is my build: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=set1_0
I realise that the points are are wrong... especially for my ground set up (which is offensive rather than defensive).
Well, there's your problem. You needed to get Fleet Resilient Shields [Adapt] [ResB] [Cap]x2. That extra bleedthrough is a killer.
In terms of a set, I tend to recommend the Salonae set. Otherwise as stated above, MACO and Adapted MACO are very solid. I haven't been too thrilled with the Assimilated set since the nerf, since the heal rarely procs now.
Mine tends to be the Adapted MACO Engines and Deflector (for the Torp Damage and Aux Power bonuses) plus an Elite Fleet [Amp] Warp Core and Elite Fleet Resilient [AdaptB] shield.
If you slap a Kinetic Cutting Beam in one of your Aft slots (regardless of your other weapon types) plus an Assimilated Universal Console, you'll get a nice weapon power buff too.
For Torpedo options: I tend to go with either:
(i) Wide Angle Quantum (for broadsiding cruisers - my Odyssey loves it!)
(ii) Gravimetric Photon Torpedo plus the Proton Particle Stabilizer Console (2-set bonus for +Photon damage)
(iii) Romulan Hyper Plasma Torpedo plus a Zero Point Module Console (2-set bonus for +Plasma Damage)
Usually I'd consider the Gravimetric option to be the best setup for most ships. Because if you're using the Adapted Maco 2-set Torpedo damage bonus; it'll stack very nicely with the Gravimetric Photon's 2-set Photon damage bonus... you don't need to sacrifice a single Tactical or Science Console slot, and you'll still have some very powerful Torpedo hits.
I'll update this with my skill tree when I can sign in at home
Lots of people have LOADS of ideas about ground setups.
Personally, I've always liked the 1x Tac, 2x Engineer, 1x Sci option for BOFFs.
Tac with a Bat'Leth: Sweeping Strikes I, Photon Grenade II, Lunge II, Smoke Grenade III.
Engineers: Shield Recharge I, Weapon Malfunction II, Turret Fabrication II, Seeker Drone I
Sci: Medical Tricorder I, Tachyon Harmonic II, Vascular Regenerator II, Nanite Health Monitor III.
With Appropriate Armors (Polyalloy or Physical Augmentation for the Tac, Energy Harness or Armor Set pieces for the others) and cone-firing expose Energy Weapons for the Engs and Sci. Don't forget to give everyone a Tribble and everyone except the Tac a remodulator.
For Shields, it depends on your traits. I usually like to give everyone a Personal Mobility Shield unless they have inherent Knockback or Root resistance... but it also can be helpful to give the Tac a [PBKB] shield since they'll be in melee range so often.
The playstyle is fairly straightforward and needs no micro-managing from you: The two engineers should just summon their pets, then stagger Weapon Malfunctions on the enemy and keep everyone's shields topped up. The Sci will lead off with a Cone Shield Drain (which can sometimes pair off VERY well with the Tac's Photon Grenade) and then concentrate on keeping everyone healed up in the downtime between drains. The ideal traits would include "Peak Health" and "Lucky"; with "Creative" on the Sci if possible.
The good thing about having the Tac as a Melee Specialist is that they tend to distract the attention of the biggest baddest foe and keep them knocked down a lot. Giving the tac Smoke Grenade might seem odd, but the AI treats stealth a little funny and it basically has the effect of greatly reducing enemy alpha strikes on you. it also has a long recharge time (just like Photon Grenade) so it won't affect them meleeing everything. The Photonic Tactical Officer is by far my favourite choice for this due to their Combat Drone and good resistance traits, but they can be a bit expensive... a Purple Tellarite is the next best thing, and you can pick one up with Peak Health and Aggressive on the exchange quite cheaply.
I tweak the above setup slightly depending on my captain type, but for the most part those BOFFs are very powerful together- the setup can practically handle the majority of PVE content without you.
There are Active Ground DOFFs that will give your Engineers a decent chance to summon 3 Turrets and 3 Drones each time, or to spread their Weapons malfunction to multiple enemies. All are good options.
For Skillpoints, it really depends on your gameplay and what Kits you're running with. A good rule of thumb is never spend much in Combat Armor or Willpower, and never spend ANY in Threat. PS Generator is also very poor return for your skillpoints... but you can see the comparison list here.
I will say though that one of the more powerful combos I've found is for a Sci Captain to have a Kit with Tachyon Harmonic on it, and then equip an Adapted Maco Weapon (the Secondary Fire on it pairs INSANELY well with Tachyon Harmonic).
My main problem with my shield (the dyson regenerative) is its capacity. Right now my power is at 85 already. The shield is only worth it with the full set, which grants the reactive shielding power. It allows you to strafe, turn around, and repeat while the off-facing side recovers.
The downside is that reactive shielding requires the FULL set. That means I can't use Elite Fleet components that grant extra power from every system to every other system with bonuses everywhere.
I feel that a fleet shield is necessary to give me PVP viability. However, I also need the extra power for weapons and auxiliary.
So far, the fleet shields I've seen regenerate far too slowly (even when I've maxed skill points on shield regen). However, the fleet regenerative shield lacks capacity (even with max skill pts on shield hp).
SO - if there's a fleet shield with the renegeration of a full dyson set, and far more capacity, tht would answer my needs. Does such a shield exist?
P.s. I've only got a tier 4 fleet starbase. The spire is still upgrading.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=thorodin_0
Power Insulators.
The skill that lessens the effects of any draining effects in PVE or PVP. In PVP, if you don't have decent PI, you are asking to be TRIBBLE-***** by that one guy that brings a totally dedicated Drain Build to the match.
Say I changed my skill points, but i didn't get the 125/125/125/125 power output. Do i need to get fleet warp/shield/impulse etc to get it up there?
Not quite, though a Fleet Warp Core will certainly help with damage output due to the [AMP] bonus.
With the linked build, plus EPTW2 and EPTS1 Cycling on cooldown, plus the [EPS Manifold Efficiency], [Efficient Captain], [Astrophysicist] and [Warp Core Theorist] captain traits; plus 5 [Efficient] Bridge Officers... plus Plasmonic Leech firing at something...
...I make it that the highest you can realistically push that build's energy levels is around 25/25/80/70; for a constant 115.21/116.83/127.37/125.34 - Weapon and Shields would also get an additional 10 energy points every other EPTX activation, so the ship would actually end up being capped at 125 to everything for a few seconds.
Although that build wouldn't be particularly fun to play due to low DPS: since weapons power wouldn't be overcapped. This is because whenever your energy weapons start firing and you end up draining weapons energy you'll get some shots occurring at well under the "capped" maximum weapons power of 125.
A better option might be if you don't care about Engine power much and just want to get it over 75; you can go at 80/35/15/70 for 153.5/123.49/79.42/125.34. Or just push for maximum DPS: 100/35/15/50 for 173.5/122.64/79.42/114.02. The highest weapons power drain you can expect to see is when broadsiding and all 7 Beams fire simultaneously... every beam after the first one will drain 10 weapons power; so you can pulse as low as -60 weapons power (which would drop you from 173.5 to 113.5 - though the last one should technically fire "at" 123.5)
Personally, I have a Science Odyssey that runs at 100/15/15/70 for 159.72/138.93/75.45/131.08 (Shields and Aux are both capped at 130 instead of 125 due to the Warp Core) and to hit that I run EPTW1 and EPTS3 constantly; with the Adapted MACO Engine and Deflector for the Aux bonus and to increase the drain of Plasmonic Leech. Technically I could switch from EPTS3 to EPTS2 and still stay a little over 130 Shield power (I'd only lose 8.25 energy) but I'd end up with less shield resistances and healing over time so I prefer to have it a little overcapped.
I usually consider Engine setting to be a wasted stat for a Broadsiding Cruiser, providing that you're already above 75 (for the [Aux] bonus) and are also already able to hit a sufficiently high Impulse Speed to max out your Defence bonus.
I don't have the efficient captain or BOFF trait. I only have astrophysicist for the captain and warp core potential... This power thingi s trickier than ia thought
It can be a little bit confusing to wrap your head around
Efficient Captain and the BOFFs are a fairly low boost. They really just add more "Warp Core Efficiency" Skillpoints - whenever you have your energy settings placed lower than 75, your efficiency skill grants an additional power boost, which increases the lower you put your setting. This means if you put your power level at 95, it'll stay at 95, but if you put it at 15 it'll be boosted way up - hitting something like 48 power whenever you've a system set to 15 is quite possible.
The biggest increase will be from running two sets of Emergy Power to X constantly - you can use EPTW, then EPTS, then EPTW, then EPTS again and maintain constant uptime on both. The boost granted relies on your EPS skillpoint rating (which is also boosted by a lot of equipment and a few traits) but you can expect to get around 15-24 power from EPTX1, 20-33 from EPTX2 and 25-42 from EPTX3. Next to that, it's Plasmonic Leech. Leech grants around 16-18 Energy depending on your "Flow Capacitors" Skill. After that, it's down to your Captain's Allocated Skillpoints in things like Power Efficiency and Performance, and then your Captain and Bridge Officer Traits.
There's a decent Calculator devoted to power levels - the version I currently use takes that linked spreadsheet as a base but has a few extra modifications so that I can calculate the extra gains from Plasmonic Leech and EPTX abilities.
Nope, just Hull.
Cycling Emergency Power to Shields grants Shield resistance, as does certain Shields themselves (Like the MACO one) and having your final Shield power level high. And some other abilities like "Transfer Shield Strength".
I tend to use my Engineering slots for Universal Consoles (Plasmonic Leech and the Assimilated Console being the two main ones, and some gear sets also need a slot like the Zero Point Module or the Protonic Stabilizer) with any spare going to Neutronium Armor and RCS Consoles or a mixture of the two...
YOU want to beat your head on a table?? Really?!? :eek:
Relevant Personal Testing here, here, here and here with an old Google Docs proof-of-concept (which sparked dozens of heated arguments, such as the one ended by that third link!!) here.
More recent testing can be found here, in a thread which referred to my own testing from ages ago, no less, and which confirmed the results I'd previously gotten (for both Beams and Cannons) yet again...
And Relevant Dev Post here which confirmed that the design intention was pretty much what we'd all been observing for BEAMS (but not for Cannons!) all along...
So.... yeah. I feel your pain. I've been there.
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Obviously, it's been a long convoluted debate... and lots of people STILL get it all wrong.
But there's a reasonably simple thing to remember for beams:
Basically, the damage your energy weapons do is always calculated based upon your weapons energy level at the time they fire, capped at a maximum value of 125. Any excess weapons energy you might have above 125 is used to counteract weapons power drain when firing multiple beams simultaneously.
The result of overcapping weapons power is that your weapons power level will not lower as much whenever you fire multiple beams - so more beams will fire "at" 125 weapons power, so you will do more damage
The above has always ONLY been true for Beams. For Cannons it's different.
(The short version is that Cannons ignore any overcap, but they still benefit from 'constantly refreshing' boosts like the MACO Shield or Plasmonic Leech. These work by adding 'new' weapons power every few secs)
Agreed - all the excess counts for is a slightly higher top speed and turn rate.
Plus where do we get mk xii Booster Modulator consoles to boost aux? The Exchange only has mk xi
The short answer is that Aux power affects most Science abilities and some Engineering powers (the Aux2X ones); but not the "Teams".
Example: Healing from Science Team and Engineering Team is not affected by Aux level, but healing from Transfer Shield Strength or Hazard Emitters is.
There's an old list of which powers are effected by AUX here that should still be pretty accurate. Especially if you glance over the space skill skillpoint effects tables for whatever ability you're looking at.
Since people's skillpoint allocations are often wildly different, tooltip values in game are your best bet for determining how adding or subtracting Aux power will affect your skill's actual values, since if an ability scales with AUX, then it's going to scale linearly. To test this, just put your ship's Aux level setting up somewhere above 75 (so that it'll not be affected by any Power Efficiency skills) and then adjust the setting upwards by 5 points. Measure the difference this makes on the ability tooltip, then divide that difference by 5. That's how much each point of Aux power affects the ability on your build.
Regarding Power consoles, I've never gone in for the Direct +Power Engineering consoles in a big way, because the effect tends to be small compared to buffs from other things you could use those console slots for. Special consoles like Plasmonic Leech or the Assimilated Console are exceptions either because of set bonuses or because the power granted is orders of magnitute better than the best power Systems Console (Example: Leech will give +32 power total at base or around +70 power with skillpoints, compared to just the +4 power you'd get from a standard console).
Set bonuses are worth looking at though - the Adapted MACO 2-piece set bonus grants a decent buff to Aux power, and is also a nice option for anyone using Torpedos. The Assimilated Deflector Array also grants 5 Aux, and it can be paired with an Assimilated Engine for a useful +HP proc set bonus.
I am really considering getting the Fleet Avenger with the Adapted maco set and the graviton torp set, though my question is cause the setup is completely new to me and doesn't include warp core, what would u recommend on the Elite Fleet warp core?
What I mean is what benefits would be the best say W->E or A->S?? I might be going with the shield however I will get it 90% to the way I like to play. I play with antiproton cannon weapons and I already have the Obelisk warp core but I dont think it help that much.
[Amp] is the main boost - it grants extra damage for each power system you have that's at a level of 75 or higher. (Obviously if you're running an Aux2Bat build this will usually be three systems, otherwise you should aim for four... which usually means bumping your Engine and Aux power setting power up a little bit)
After that, it's up to you.
Personally, I prefer "Reinforced" Cores because they raise the maximum cap on your Shield and Aux power from 125 to 130 - for a Tanking Cruiser, the extra 5 shield points can be noticable and if you're already running a Plasmonic Leech console and EPTS2/EPTS3 then you'll be most of the way to 130 power already even with your base power setting sitting at 15.
The Elite Fleet Reinforced Worp Cores you have to choose from all come from the Fleet Dilithium Mine
The A->B bonuses grant extra power to system B depending on your current power level of system A... you'll probably be running Weapons and Shield power at the caps, so those are the best bonuses to "feed" from.
The ones with [AMP] which apply bonuses based on Shield or Weapon power are:
Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [EPS] [S->W] [ECap] [AMP] [SST]
Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [SEP] [S->W] [SCap] [AMP] [SST]
Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [Rep] [S->A] [WCap] [AMP] [SSS]
Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [EPS] [W->S] [ECap] [AMP] [SST]
Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [SEP] [W->S] [SCap] [AMP] [SST]
For a Cruiser running EPTS, the most efficient boost will be had going to be from Shields to Weapons. So personally I'd pick the first or second on that list depending on whether you want a Clickable "Capacitor" buff to Engines or Shields... and for a Tank, I'd tend to err on the side of Shields- you usually won't need the power boost, but the extra heal might be handy occasionally.
Well, thanks.
I have put something on the Skill planner website that is something I think would be a good tanking setup. Here it is --> http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dysonfleetavenger_6841 and if you think I could make any better changes then more than welcome.
I know it says 'Dyson Avenger' however I have been working on it for some time. I just don't think the Dyson set balances out even though you get the 'Proton barrage' which sounds cool.
I assume the missing Tactical Ensign ability is Tac Team I?
The most obvious change would be to drop the two Plasma Distribution Manifolds for a Plasmonic Leech and Assimilated Console, then drop one of the Aft weapons for a Kinetic Cutting Beam.
You won't get the VERY good 2-piece set bonus from the Omnidirectional Antiproton Array unless you also use the Dyson engine; but that means you can use an Elite Warp Core - so it might be worth dropping this for the Kinetic Cutting beam, which is also Omnidirectional but much higher DPS and can't use Beam Overloads or FAW.
Technically you'd get the highest forward DPS by using a Kinetic Cutting Beam and two Antiproton Turrets (and losing the Warhead Yield Chamber for another Antiproton console). But if you like the Mines and the Proton beam, go for it
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I'm not sure Beam Abilities are a great skillchoice either since you won't be doing too much damage with them via the low-base-damage Omnidirectional Antiproton array or the unbuffed Experimental Proton beam? Might be worth changing this to Attack Pattern Beta I or Cannon Scatter Volley I instead! CRF2 and TS1 are solid choices, and as already mentioned you'll want Tac Team up constantly, which you can get with one copy of TT1 and two Conn Officer DOFFs (one purple, one blue).
Your Engineering abilities are a bit odd though - to get maximum uptime you can rotate four EPTX powers (the "Dragon" build - this usually means two identical copies of EPTS plus two identical copies of EPTW - one is usually Ensign and the other Lt or LTCom), or two EPTX powers plus a copy of Aux2Bat and 2-3 Technician DOFFs (the Technicians cause Aux2Bat to lower the cooldown on your other powers, basically giving you double uptime on EPTX). Aceton Beam is also one of the worst Commander abilities (it applies only against one target; and only against energy damage, whenever usually what kills you will be kinetic damage!) - Aux2SIF3 is typically the +survivability Commander ability (certainly in non-Aux2Bat builds) and DEM3 the +DPS one.
You're also missing any kind of cleanse (Science Team or Hazard Emitters).
As it stands the BOFF powers seem odd, because they're not geared towards either DPS or Tanking. They seem to be a random mixture of utility abilities.
If you want to tank with a DHC setup, I'd suggest:
TS1, CSV1, CRF2
TT1, APB1, CRF2
(you can swap these two around for either CSV1 or APB1 depending on the situation)
EPTW1, ET2, EPTS3, DEM3
EPTW1, RSP1, EPTS3, Aux2SIF3
(you can swap these two around for either DEM3 or Aux2SIF3 depending on the situation)
ST1, HE2
Or alternatively (for an Aux2Bat build) the above with different engineers:
ET1, Aux2Bat1, EPTW3, DEM3
ET1, RSP1, EPTS3
(or swap RSP1 for a second copy of Aux2Bat1)
The benefit of the Aux2Bat build is you will have a better EPTW, and much greater uptime on your Tactical powers. It needs two DOFFs; but technically if you take two copies of it you could drop your Tac Team Conn Officers and still keep decent uptime on TT. At this point it's a balancing act of more DOFFs or more Powers.
From what I read about both the post about the Plasmonic Leech and the MACO shield stats and buffs, the devs changed it so you couldn't stack the Leech with the shield. Does this apply to the Adapted MACO shield or is that different cause of ADapted shield doesn't have Leeching proc's?
Plamonic Leech's Energy granting ability doesn't stack with the NORMAL MACO Shield's energy granting ability. The Adapted MACO set is unaffected either way.
(And even for the MACO set: you can still equip the shield and the Leech Console, you'll just only get the energy return bonus from either the shield or Leech, not both at the same time...)