i was comparing multiple romulan ships to the avenger and her tanking. i found that even the DD couldnt tank as well when equiped with similar if not identical gear and BOFF powers, granted ive not done this "By the Numbers" but thats just the it seems. i was wondering if anyone else felt the same way...
more direct comparisons made were:
Fleet mogai Vs Fleet Avenger: equal Eng slots and equal shield mod.
Fleet DD vs. Fleet avenger: Equal Eng slots, equal shield mod, DD has more hull.
ADSD vs. Fleet avenger: i know these two ship cant realy be compared but they are what each toon spends the most time in.
Both toons are tac.
I have considered power levels and mistaking came up with a test to get around this issue. while gearing up my avenger, i forgot to install shields... i went into a ESTF and didnt notice a different other than my wondering why my shield heals did nothing for my shields.... I hulltanked a good 40% of the mission before i realized i didnt have my shields... tried it is a DD.......
The following letter was sent to the DD's crew's families:
The Romulan Republic regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid.....
I think Goose was in the background...yelling great balls of fire....
I do not know what crew has the DD versus Avenger but it might be the "crew bug"
Smaller crew ships (Avenger) have better hull regen than their counterparts with other similar specifications (Mogh)
In my opinion it was the way the 2 ships were "balanced" in season 8:
Mogh (+cloak) and Avenger (+hull healing)
Now after season 9 with all that changes it is possible that more factors come into equation but if you could do a mission without shields on Avenger that is more than OP and should be corrected.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I do not know what crew has the DD versus Avenger but it might be the "crew bug"
Smaller crew ships (Avenger) have better hull regen than their counterparts with other similar specifications (Mogh)
In my opinion it was the way the 2 ships were "balanced" in season 8:
Mogh (+cloak) and Avenger (+hull healing)
Now after season 9 with all that changes it is possible that more factors come into equation but if you could do a mission without shields on Avenger that is more than OP and should be corrected.
Well i went through like the 40-50% of elite conduit before i realized my shield heals were not doing anything and my shield remained down...
My hull resists are in the 45-50% range and i have a full human BOFF crew all with leadership. i also had the new hull regen trait from S9..... all that with my hull heals. and i hull tanked very well. continuous Damage was manageable but any HUGE spikes and i was in the red, and pulling back to heal before re-engaging. But to be able to do even that...without shields...... My god....
I don't think that is really the case, but it would actually be fair and balanced, if the Feds had at least a small bonus in hull and maybe shield strength (I writing this as someone with an Romulan toon as his main).
Bigger hit box = more likely to catch explosions/hazards.
Otherwise, power levels(especially Aux) and structural integrity play a pretty big part. It's pretty easy to (accidentally) skimp on those with Romulan ships, I find.
It took me a while to learn that I have to keep a pretty respectable distance with my D'deridex, but now that I have, it's pretty easy to tank like any 'cruiser' with it.
I do not know what crew has the DD versus Avenger but it might be the "crew bug"
500 Avenger 1500 D'deridex. The Fleet D'deridex sports 3300 more hull than the Fleet Avenger. With the D'deridex losing %crew faster than the Avenger because of how the Crew mechanic "mis"works...the Avenger would have better regen longer. There's also the potential aspect that Leadership BOFFs vs. Sub/SROs could play, eh?
Hrmm...as mentioned, there's going to be power differences as well - that could affect damage resistance from various buffs as well as heals. Also, even bonus defense could come into play and getting hit more in the D'deridex than the Avenger.
at least a small bonus in hull and maybe shield strength
First they have to fix the crew issue and after yes i think it would fair to give a small bonus to compensate for kdf cloak to similar fed ships.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Its there a reason why FED hulls seem more durable than rom hulls?
There is an obvious reason. Power creep. Romulans are powerful, so they need something weaker than the rest. In this case, they have weaker shields and hull. Its obvious.
And even then, you have the singularity skills, that grants you a lot of defense maneouvers, including as the guy said the super quantum absorption shield. With that, romulans have better hull and shield resistance than any faction.
I was just contemplating this myself. I am currently running a Vandal for my Klingon Toon and a Valdore for my Romuan toon and despite the fact I have both the Shield Leech and Power Leech consoles on my Valdore and only the power leech on the Vandal the Vandal seems nearly twice as durable and honestly it isn't just the hull I am talking about, it is the shields as well. I also have better gear on my Valdore.
Basically I guess from the fact that the Vandal has a higher base power level, with the leech the shield recharge is much higher overall for the increased power available making the shields much more durable than on the Valdore even with its shield leech console. Then add in what appears to be a much more durable hull on the Vandal and there is no comparison. Even the Cloak and Singluarity powers aren't enough to make them equal in my book.
I am also comparing apples to apples here. Both have the same type of shield (Valdore has a higher mark rating with about 1k more shields), same level cannons, turrets and torpedoes, same general consoles set up (except the Valdore also has the Shield leech in place of a sci console), same level toon (within 1 level) and on the same mission (end of the Nimbus missions where you take on the Orion dude called the "undying".
In that same mission/final battle, the Vandal never took hull damage once, while the Valdore ended up having to pop my singularity absorption skill and even started the battle from Battle Cloak. Complete night and day difference in durability.
Yes. Quantum absorption. Battle cloak. Superior romulan operative.
Honestly I am not sure these make up for the difference.
Quantum absorption is definitely a good get out of jail free card but it takes time to charge up, has a long-ish cooldown and uses the same resources as 3-4 other skills you may want to use occasionally. Also on a Cruiser class vessel, you trade Cruiser Commands for Singularity powers so on a cruiser you are actually losing a significant amount of firepower, maneuverability or shields to have singularity powers.
Battle Cloak is also very situational as you have to drop shields to use it and your shields don't regen while cloaked which means when you come out of cloak, your usually in the same situation that drove you to cloak in the first place. Also while your cloaked, your not firing and the enemy is also healing/recharging just waiting for you to emerge from cloak. Sure you can totally escape from the fight and come back when your fully healed but from an efficiency standpoint, this can slow combat to a crawl.
The Operative is a nice buff but not exactly critical to suitability or durability.
On the other hand, when you have stronger shields and hull, your 100% up and in the fight longer, whittling down the enemy every second your active.
So to me anyway, all 90% of the time, all the fancy toys the Romulan's have actually only equal useful escape tools that generally reduce DPS and extend the fight. Having more up time at the cost of dying a bit more often just seems to make more sense considering it only takes maybe 10-15 seconds to get back in the fight from a re-spawn anyway.
Also keep in mind, strong hull and shields, means less use of skills to heal your ship and having those skills available and off cool down more often likely equals tons more survivability than having access to quantum absorption outside of those "oh sh....it!!" scenarios anyway.
Comments
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Example of some ships you're looking at? Are you taking turn into consideration? Those ships that might favor shield mod over hull?
more direct comparisons made were:
Fleet mogai Vs Fleet Avenger: equal Eng slots and equal shield mod.
Fleet DD vs. Fleet avenger: Equal Eng slots, equal shield mod, DD has more hull.
ADSD vs. Fleet avenger: i know these two ship cant realy be compared but they are what each toon spends the most time in.
Both toons are tac.
I have considered power levels and mistaking came up with a test to get around this issue. while gearing up my avenger, i forgot to install shields... i went into a ESTF and didnt notice a different other than my wondering why my shield heals did nothing for my shields.... I hulltanked a good 40% of the mission before i realized i didnt have my shields... tried it is a DD.......
The following letter was sent to the DD's crew's families:
The Romulan Republic regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid.....
I think Goose was in the background...yelling great balls of fire....
Smaller crew ships (Avenger) have better hull regen than their counterparts with other similar specifications (Mogh)
In my opinion it was the way the 2 ships were "balanced" in season 8:
Mogh (+cloak) and Avenger (+hull healing)
Now after season 9 with all that changes it is possible that more factors come into equation but if you could do a mission without shields on Avenger that is more than OP and should be corrected.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Well i went through like the 40-50% of elite conduit before i realized my shield heals were not doing anything and my shield remained down...
My hull resists are in the 45-50% range and i have a full human BOFF crew all with leadership. i also had the new hull regen trait from S9..... all that with my hull heals. and i hull tanked very well. continuous Damage was manageable but any HUGE spikes and i was in the red, and pulling back to heal before re-engaging. But to be able to do even that...without shields...... My god....
Otherwise, power levels(especially Aux) and structural integrity play a pretty big part. It's pretty easy to (accidentally) skimp on those with Romulan ships, I find.
It took me a while to learn that I have to keep a pretty respectable distance with my D'deridex, but now that I have, it's pretty easy to tank like any 'cruiser' with it.
500 Avenger 1500 D'deridex. The Fleet D'deridex sports 3300 more hull than the Fleet Avenger. With the D'deridex losing %crew faster than the Avenger because of how the Crew mechanic "mis"works...the Avenger would have better regen longer. There's also the potential aspect that Leadership BOFFs vs. Sub/SROs could play, eh?
Hrmm...as mentioned, there's going to be power differences as well - that could affect damage resistance from various buffs as well as heals. Also, even bonus defense could come into play and getting hit more in the D'deridex than the Avenger.
Could be so many things there, eh?
First they have to fix the crew issue and after yes i think it would fair to give a small bonus to compensate for kdf cloak to similar fed ships.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
There is an obvious reason. Power creep. Romulans are powerful, so they need something weaker than the rest. In this case, they have weaker shields and hull. Its obvious.
And even then, you have the singularity skills, that grants you a lot of defense maneouvers, including as the guy said the super quantum absorption shield. With that, romulans have better hull and shield resistance than any faction.
Basically I guess from the fact that the Vandal has a higher base power level, with the leech the shield recharge is much higher overall for the increased power available making the shields much more durable than on the Valdore even with its shield leech console. Then add in what appears to be a much more durable hull on the Vandal and there is no comparison. Even the Cloak and Singluarity powers aren't enough to make them equal in my book.
I am also comparing apples to apples here. Both have the same type of shield (Valdore has a higher mark rating with about 1k more shields), same level cannons, turrets and torpedoes, same general consoles set up (except the Valdore also has the Shield leech in place of a sci console), same level toon (within 1 level) and on the same mission (end of the Nimbus missions where you take on the Orion dude called the "undying".
In that same mission/final battle, the Vandal never took hull damage once, while the Valdore ended up having to pop my singularity absorption skill and even started the battle from Battle Cloak. Complete night and day difference in durability.
Yes. Quantum absorption. Battle cloak. Superior romulan operative.
Honestly I am not sure these make up for the difference.
Quantum absorption is definitely a good get out of jail free card but it takes time to charge up, has a long-ish cooldown and uses the same resources as 3-4 other skills you may want to use occasionally. Also on a Cruiser class vessel, you trade Cruiser Commands for Singularity powers so on a cruiser you are actually losing a significant amount of firepower, maneuverability or shields to have singularity powers.
Battle Cloak is also very situational as you have to drop shields to use it and your shields don't regen while cloaked which means when you come out of cloak, your usually in the same situation that drove you to cloak in the first place. Also while your cloaked, your not firing and the enemy is also healing/recharging just waiting for you to emerge from cloak. Sure you can totally escape from the fight and come back when your fully healed but from an efficiency standpoint, this can slow combat to a crawl.
The Operative is a nice buff but not exactly critical to suitability or durability.
On the other hand, when you have stronger shields and hull, your 100% up and in the fight longer, whittling down the enemy every second your active.
So to me anyway, all 90% of the time, all the fancy toys the Romulan's have actually only equal useful escape tools that generally reduce DPS and extend the fight. Having more up time at the cost of dying a bit more often just seems to make more sense considering it only takes maybe 10-15 seconds to get back in the fight from a re-spawn anyway.
Also keep in mind, strong hull and shields, means less use of skills to heal your ship and having those skills available and off cool down more often likely equals tons more survivability than having access to quantum absorption outside of those "oh sh....it!!" scenarios anyway.