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Federation Battleship

knightnbluknightnblu Member Posts: 104 Arc User
I recently purchased the Bort on the KDF side, and I love it. That is one fearsome ship. What we don't have on the Federation side is a ship that is equal to it. Aside from reasons of parity, the Feds need a ship that can take the fight to the Undine and Iconians. Don't get me wrong, the current crop of ships are good, but they don't have the power or survivability of a Bort class ship.

The Federation rose to the challenge and created the Defiant in response to the increased military challenges faced by the UFP. But there has been nothing that could go toe to toe with an Undine Dreadnaught and only God knows what the Iconians have up their sleeves. With Season 9 released, the reveal of the Undine threat and the existential threat that the Iconians represent, the need for a Federation dreadnaught is very real.

It needs to be as much a tank as a platform for raw firepower, it needs to be able to support the fleets as well as survive on it's own, and it needs to be able to deploy combat drones and fighters to provide point defense and cover support because she sure won't be nimble. Her bridge should be a CIC instead of the traditional bridge and she should be able to carry and support a MACO Company for boarding operations.

In short, the Fed dreadnaught should be all warship and built to last. I realize that care must be taken to insure that the ship would not be overpowered, but the Feds need a vessel for both story line reasons and as a check to the Bort.

C'mon Cryptic, what do you say?
Post edited by knightnblu on
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Comments

  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Avenger? Fleet Excel?
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yeah, avenger, fleet sovereign, and fleet excelsior are all battleships; easily the 3 best combat cruisers in the game.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I haven't tried the sovereign, but it is comparable to the excel
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,443 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    How about something like this: Invincible Class Fleet Carrier-Heavy Battleship
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  • tcostiktcostik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014

    That is one of the worst kitbashed models I've ever seen.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,443 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    tcostik wrote: »
    That is one of the worst kitbashed models I've ever seen.

    True, but I was more interested in what it can do. A better ship designer could make it prettier. :D
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  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The Federation analogies to the Bortasqu are the Odyssey and Galaxy-X.

    Otherwise, it sounds like you're wanting the Jupiter Dreadnaught. As I understand, the team aren't too keen on the ship because it's "an ugly kitbash".
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    The Jupiter needs a serious redesign.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
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  • outlaw51825outlaw51825 Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    knightnblu wrote: »
    I recently purchased the Bort on the KDF side, and I love it. That is one fearsome ship. What we don't have on the Federation side is a ship that is equal to it. Aside from reasons of parity, the Feds need a ship that can take the fight to the Undine and Iconians. Don't get me wrong, the current crop of ships are good, but they don't have the power or survivability of a Bort class ship.

    The Federation rose to the challenge and created the Defiant in response to the increased military challenges faced by the UFP. But there has been nothing that could go toe to toe with an Undine Dreadnaught and only God knows what the Iconians have up their sleeves. With Season 9 released, the reveal of the Undine threat and the existential threat that the Iconians represent, the need for a Federation dreadnaught is very real.

    It needs to be as much a tank as a platform for raw firepower, it needs to be able to support the fleets as well as survive on it's own, and it needs to be able to deploy combat drones and fighters to provide point defense and cover support because she sure won't be nimble. Her bridge should be a CIC instead of the traditional bridge and she should be able to carry and support a MACO Company for boarding operations.

    In short, the Fed dreadnaught should be all warship and built to last. I realize that care must be taken to insure that the ship would not be overpowered, but the Feds need a vessel for both story line reasons and as a check to the Bort.

    C'mon Cryptic, what do you say?

    The ground work has quite frankly been laid for something even more powerful than the Bort.

    The storyline has evolved to a point where even carriers and their 3k crew loads may not be enough. In the face of the deployment of Planet Killing class vessels (Something no one in ST canon has ever employed outside of the Doomsday Device.) I believe the federation is going to unveil the entry into the Super Capital class of ships. Be prepared for a potential T7 class ship. Ten thousand Crew strong and at least double the size of any current vessel in the alpha/beta quadrants. A good measure will be a Borg Cube to compare it to size wise. The ships will probably be top level fleet projects as season nine and ten unveil as the plot progresses to a head to head confrontation with the Iconians. (Because its now clear the race we THOUGHT were Iconians were infact a servitor race.)

    If i've read the plot properly and i like to think i have. The Federation faced by this threat and new ones will have no choice but to develop this Super Capital class of ship. Something it's never even touched before.

    Remember a Current Aircraft carrier has about 5k crew on it. A galaxy class has 1500. Scale may be altering SIGNIFICANTLY in the months ahead.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,443 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    If Cryptic does decide to make a "super carrier/battleship", it'll probably be a cross factional ship. Something developed in cooperation between the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans to fight the Undine.

    The Undine have Planet Killers. We shall unveil... The Star Destroyer! :D
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  • zulisvelzulisvel Member Posts: 518 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I haven't tried the sovereign, but it is comparable to the excel
    I have fleet versions of both on my main. The Regent turns a little slower than the Excelsior, but it packs a slightly bigger punch. They're pretty much the same ship with the Excelsior leaning a bit more defensive and the Regent a bit more offensive. If you have one and like it there's no reason not to have the other, especially with loadouts now, and switch between them as you see fit.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    knightnblu wrote: »
    I recently purchased the Bort on the KDF side, and I love it. That is one fearsome ship. What we don't have on the Federation side is a ship that is equal to it. Aside from reasons of parity, the Feds need a ship that can take the fight to the Undine and Iconians. Don't get me wrong, the current crop of ships are good, but they don't have the power or survivability of a Bort class ship.

    The Federation rose to the challenge and created the Defiant in response to the increased military challenges faced by the UFP. But there has been nothing that could go toe to toe with an Undine Dreadnaught and only God knows what the Iconians have up their sleeves. With Season 9 released, the reveal of the Undine threat and the existential threat that the Iconians represent, the need for a Federation dreadnaught is very real.

    It needs to be as much a tank as a platform for raw firepower, it needs to be able to support the fleets as well as survive on it's own, and it needs to be able to deploy combat drones and fighters to provide point defense and cover support because she sure won't be nimble. Her bridge should be a CIC instead of the traditional bridge and she should be able to carry and support a MACO Company for boarding operations.

    In short, the Fed dreadnaught should be all warship and built to last. I realize that care must be taken to insure that the ship would not be overpowered, but the Feds need a vessel for both story line reasons and as a check to the Bort.

    C'mon Cryptic, what do you say?

    I recommend the Dromias Undine ship. It's exactly what you're looking for Fed side.
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  • somebobsomebob Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tcostik wrote: »
    That is one of the worst kitbashed models I've ever seen.

    That 'ship' is a fanfiction Mary Sue dream come true.

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  • showmeyourhonorshowmeyourhonor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    knightnblu wrote: »
    I recently purchased the Bort on the KDF side, and I love it. That is one fearsome ship. What we don't have on the Federation side is a ship that is equal to it. Aside from reasons of parity, the Feds need a ship that can take the fight to the Undine and Iconians. Don't get me wrong, the current crop of ships are good, but they don't have the power or survivability of a Bort class ship.

    The Federation rose to the challenge and created the Defiant in response to the increased military challenges faced by the UFP. But there has been nothing that could go toe to toe with an Undine Dreadnaught and only God knows what the Iconians have up their sleeves. With Season 9 released, the reveal of the Undine threat and the existential threat that the Iconians represent, the need for a Federation dreadnaught is very real.

    It needs to be as much a tank as a platform for raw firepower, it needs to be able to support the fleets as well as survive on it's own, and it needs to be able to deploy combat drones and fighters to provide point defense and cover support because she sure won't be nimble. Her bridge should be a CIC instead of the traditional bridge and she should be able to carry and support a MACO Company for boarding operations.

    In short, the Fed dreadnaught should be all warship and built to last. I realize that care must be taken to insure that the ship would not be overpowered, but the Feds need a vessel for both story line reasons and as a check to the Bort.

    C'mon Cryptic, what do you say?

    You mean like the Avenger? Which is almost an exact copy of the Mogh battlecruiser, and one of the best cruisers in the game?
  • embrosilembrosil Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I must agree with the OP. I was expecting the Oddyssey to be at least similar to Bortasq, but it simply is not. Some flagship that is. If only Oddy coluld launch saucer and Aquarius together, but no, we have to have this restricted as well.
    I know that Federation is peaceful by the nature. But it has not stopped them in making one of the strongest ships. Yet at the time of war, all they come up with is Avenger, which is omho still worse than Bortasq.
  • mailman650mailman650 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'd totally buy the Jupiter for the fact that it looks like a giant bathtub with nacells :D
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    embrosil wrote: »
    I must agree with the OP. I was expecting the Oddyssey to be at least similar to Bortasq, but it simply is not. Some flagship that is. If only Oddy coluld launch saucer and Aquarius together, but no, we have to have this restricted as well.
    I know that Federation is peaceful by the nature. But it has not stopped them in making one of the strongest ships. Yet at the time of war, all they come up with is Avenger, which is omho still worse than Bortasq.

    the avenger(and the mogh) are better than the bortas, the bortas would be a better ship if it didn't have a horrible turn rate.
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The ground work has quite frankly been laid for something even more powerful than the Bort.

    The storyline has evolved to a point where even carriers and their 3k crew loads may not be enough. In the face of the deployment of Planet Killing class vessels (Something no one in ST canon has ever employed outside of the Doomsday Device.) I believe the federation is going to unveil the entry into the Super Capital class of ships. Be prepared for a potential T7 class ship. Ten thousand Crew strong and at least double the size of any current vessel in the alpha/beta quadrants. A good measure will be a Borg Cube to compare it to size wise. The ships will probably be top level fleet projects as season nine and ten unveil as the plot progresses to a head to head confrontation with the Iconians. (Because its now clear the race we THOUGHT were Iconians were infact a servitor race.)

    If i've read the plot properly and i like to think i have. The Federation faced by this threat and new ones will have no choice but to develop this Super Capital class of ship. Something it's never even touched before.

    Remember a Current Aircraft carrier has about 5k crew on it. A galaxy class has 1500. Scale may be altering SIGNIFICANTLY in the months ahead.

    I genuinely hope not. One thing I like about STO is if you have your heart set on a ship, no matter what the ship is you can acquire it with a reasonable amount of effort. Creating ships that require a mass construction effort at a fleet facility creates a new breed of end-game ships that will only be in the hands in the richest, most powerful players in the biggest most powerful fleets. That's not a game I want to play - if you want that you can play EVE Online and go build a Titan.

    I wouldn't mind if they added new ships to the crafting system, though. I would like to build my own ship, I just don't want to need a T7 (or whatever) fleet to do it.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Fleet Excelsior, Avenger, Fleet Excelsior, Regent(Sovereign), Fleet Excelsior. Maaaaaybe even the Galaxy-X for the skilled.
    Have I mentioned the Fleet Excelsior? :D

    Although it does amuse me how many people seem to not understand the Odyssey and play to her strenghts. That's one amazing cruiser right there.

    But seriously OP, Fleet Excelsior.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    Yeah, avenger, fleet sovereign, and fleet excelsior are all battleships; easily the 3 best combat cruisers in the game.

    The problem is, those ships doesnt "feel" like the Bortasqu lol. I hate the excelsior and the avenger, they are ugly as hell, and the fleet sovereign, its awesome, but still its not better than the Bortasqu.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The problem is, those ships doesnt "feel" like the Bortasqu lol. I hate the excelsior and the avenger, they are ugly as hell, and the fleet sovereign, its awesome, but still its not better than the Bortasqu.

    You want the Federation to have the superior ship?

    And once you play KDF again (which you loved), you will probably want a new KDF ship that's better than that Federation Battleship?
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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    You want the Federation to have the superior ship?

    And once you play KDF again (which you loved), you will probably want a new KDF ship that's better than that Federation Battleship?

    and so the cycle continues
  • embrosilembrosil Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    the avenger(and the mogh) are better than the bortas, the bortas would be a better ship if it didn't have a horrible turn rate.
    I disagree. None of these have 5 tactical consoles and none have so useful universal ones. And I really do not mind turn rate as I mostly play cruisers and there are quite a few way to increase it. Mogh and Avenger are too squishy. Not to mention Avenger is ugly as hell :(
  • outlaw51825outlaw51825 Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If Cryptic does decide to make a "super carrier/battleship", it'll probably be a cross factional ship. Something developed in cooperation between the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans to fight the Undine.

    The Undine have Planet Killers. We shall unveil... The Star Destroyer! :D

    I'm thinking not quite that big but definitely bigger than anything the ST universe as seen before
    I genuinely hope not. One thing I like about STO is if you have your heart set on a ship, no matter what the ship is you can acquire it with a reasonable amount of effort. Creating ships that require a mass construction effort at a fleet facility creates a new breed of end-game ships that will only be in the hands in the richest, most powerful players in the biggest most powerful fleets. That's not a game I want to play - if you want that you can play EVE Online and go build a Titan.

    I wouldn't mind if they added new ships to the crafting system, though. I would like to build my own ship, I just don't want to need a T7 (or whatever) fleet to do it.

    Our fleet isnt the biggest and we're pretty close to full fleet construction. I get the problems you're seeing but i can not see a threat like this being handled fully without a new ship type one the ST universe has been loathe to touch until now. And Fleet Construction would be the easy non C-store way to handle it.

    Bigger might not always be better but we're in an entirely new realm of combat with the Undine planet killers.
  • yorethelyorethel Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I have to admit in the face of all these newer massive enemy vessels, we are getting swatted like flies. I would like to see all 3 factions getting a new Dreadnought class vessel possibly somewhere along the lines of a choice where you go all out Battlwaggon, Carrier or Hybrid

    This New class could consist of 3 new subclasses of Dreadnought allowing visual customisation in the shipyard but essentially being:-

    Battlewaggon could mount more weapons
    Carrier sacrifices a weapon slot or two for one/two additional fighter slots (I would say this new Dn should pack at least 3 or 4 fighter bays to differentiate it from the normal carrier types)
    Hybrid is a happy medium between the two

    They could all have the same boff layout with some universals to allow customisation/play style.
    I've been itching to see a proper Federation/Klingon/Romulan tactical carrier built for all out war, afterall that is exactly what we are in the midst of.

    Perhaps on the subject of construction this could be a special personal project like in the special events roster, but you have to shovel some resources into it, afterall these ships are massive and would take quite a bit of logistics to construct.
  • knightnbluknightnblu Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't know of any Avenger or Excelsior that could go toe to toe with an Undine dread out of the box. Remember the dreads we had to kill at the start of Season 9? Yeah, that took a fleet. I am not saying that the Avenger or Excelsior class ships are bad, quite the opposite. I am saying that the Feds need to step up to the plate given the threats it now faces. Starfleet has always been exploratory and de-emphasized the military. But those days are long gone given the might that stands against it.

    There is a need for a strong Fed dreadnaught and if the Feds created the Defiant class as a purely military ship to meet that need previously, then they should also respond to the new threat with the creation of a Fed dreadnaught that is a pure military vessel.

    The Klingons have the Bort, the Romulans have the Scimitar, and the Feds have...nothing similar. Sure you can buy a Cruiser and call it a battleship, but a battleship it isn't. A battleship is a dreadnaught class vessel, period. It is the heavy guns of the fleet. It packs a wallop, but it moves very slowly and that is why it travels with protection. Catch it alone and a few nimble craft could take it out. Which is why it needs hangers to launch support.

    The Vengeance was a dreadnaught class vessel, but that isn't canon for the game. The Achilles class is canon, but that isn't around and neither are the weapons for it. The Typhoon and Jupiter classes are used in game, but they are not available to play. While the Federation has a large number of vessels to choose from, it has nothing that is on par with either the Bort or the Scimitar. If things were peachy, who would care. But the Undine and the Iconians have changed the situation.

    The Undine are more technologically advanced that any other race in the quadrant. They have planet killers. They can take on the shape of any race and infiltrate making them excellent intelligence gatherers. They can toss a monkey wrench into the gear box at the worst possible time and you will never see it coming. And they are nothing compared to the Iconians.

    Need for a dreadnaught? Check. Does the threat warrant construction? Check. Will other species/alliances have parity? Check. Do the Feds have anything that could be retrofitted and made into a dreadnaught? No or at least not available to the player. The reasoning seems pretty sound to me.

    Regardless of if Cryptic releases a Fed dreadnaught or not, I will still love the Bort. I am very happy with that ship. I am not asking for supremacy, all I am asking for is parity. Heck, I would even love to see a greater diversification of ships in the Klingon and Romulan fleets. I am all about choices, and all I am asking for is a dreadnaught choice for the Federation. A choice, I might add, that has already been provided to the Klingons and the Romulans. I didn't write the story, Cryptic did.

    I'm just sayin'.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    Yeah, avenger, fleet sovereign, and fleet excelsior are all battleships; easily the 3 best combat cruisers in the game.

    I'd say the KDF Battlecruisers and Scimitar are still superior, but the ships you listed are quite solid choices in the game.

    People need to stop thinking the term "Dreadnought" or maybe later, "Battleship" actually means something in this game. Because they don't, and Cryptic just throws the title around like throwing food at Pigeons to watch them gobble it up. Do not think of the traditional, real life definition of a Battleship and what they were. People need to look at the stats.

    I mean, they put the term "Dreadnought" on the Failaxy-X. That should tell you enough that the term "Dreadnought" means absolutely nothing in STO, when you already have existing ships that are far better deserving the term than the Failaxy-X.

    Also, look at the "Elachi Monbosh Battleship." OOOOOhhh, it's a "Battleship!" Yet looking at the stats, knowledgeable players understand the Monbosh "Battleship" is really almost a direct copy & paste of the KDF's capable Fleet Vor'Cha. Hell, when LOR came out and the Monbosh was brand spanking new, it was such a blatant copy & paste that Cryptic forgot to remove the Fleet Vor'Cha's cloak from the "Monbosh" and patched a fix a few days later.

    Moral of today's lesson for those that don't know: "Dreadnoughts" and "Battleships" already exist in the game. You just need to look at the stats.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well this is the first time I have seen someone call the Bortas awesome. And the Odyssey is the fed version as they are both the flagship class.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    zipagat wrote: »
    Well this is the first time I have seen someone call the Bortas awesome. And the Odyssey is the fed version as they are both the flagship class.

    I have had many, many, HEAVY criticisms of the Bortasqu' ships in the past.

    But in today's STO there are alot of options in bringing turn rate boosts while still being capable offensively & defensively.

    Matter of fact, I'd dare say, after the new Sensor Analysis, the Command Bortasqu' is a very mean, total package, superior than even the 5 TAC Bortasqu'. The Command version has 4/4 TAC & ENG console slotting AND has the beefed up Sensor Analysis of Season 9.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yeah I was going to get my Bortas out and take it for a spin since the changes but haven't gotten round to it yet. Plus every 3 mins it can be a death machine with the auto cannon and jump ability.
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