I've been fairly restless in STO these past few weeks and wondering why. Finally I've been doing some thinking today. After doing a search for forum threads titled "VETERAN REWARDS", I found 1 thread buried about 3 pages deep with less than 10 replies....
I'd like to start a dialogue/forum reference here, if possible. Thoughts and Ideas of how to improve STO's 'Free to Pay' Model. :P
First, of all let me say: I really like lock-boxes, the C-Store and the cool ships: Up until the Voth Lock Box I think I obtained every lock-box ship that came out, with the exception of the Suliban.
With that said, Today I am of the opinion that there needs to be a quick realignment in the focus of what's being produced in the game. Specifically, though advertised as FTP most of the cool stuff being released in STO is geared for pay to play. Look at alot of threads on the forums and you'll see many angry people complaining about Power Creep, Nerfs (rep traits, especially) and how Veterans are getting the short end of the stick.
I'd like to discuss what the Free to Play Game Model is... Industry insiders, MBAs, college majors in Game Developers please feel free to weigh in, especially where STO stands in the picture.
For my (limited) two cents, i have Faith in Cryptic...I feel they want to put the best possible game out there for Fans of Star Trek to enjoy. My belief and premise about Free to Play games is that to be successful you need two things: 1) You need to Keep players coming back, and 2) You need to Keep them happy.
Thinking about PWE Star Trek Online, the word that we need is, 'Balance'. Honestly, How can a game that markets itself as Free to Play have less content and gear that are available for FREE than content and things that require purchase? IMHO, the FREE part is STAGNANT and has gone by the wayside.
My suggestion is that If it's not being taken seriously already, The VETERAN REWARDs and Lifetime Subs Rewards Programs need to be Overhauled and Revitalized...
DEVs, It's simple: Keep STO Gamers Happy and they'll keep you 'in business' . You want to Keep your Largest Population of Best Customers as 'Repeat customers', and those aren't the Pay-to-Play people. It's your Veteran Player Base - the people who've been with the game the longest and put in the most hours. Ultimately they will decide if something is worth forking money over or whether it's time to move on to other games worth their TIME and money. My suggestion: Please Overhaul and Retool the Veteran Rewards Program. Reward the people who've logged the most hours and kept STO going with the equally cool & effective gear / content, if not cooler & more effective. If You ask me, the most successful business model for Star Trek Online, is one where the "Game gets Better the longer you play it".
For Starters: Veteran/LTS Rewards. How about access to a Section 31 Rep Store, for real time hours played in-game? Sell Consoles, Unique Devices/Ship weapons /Ship Equipment/ Ground Weapons &Equipment, etc. there for EC, Dilithium and/or Lobi. Items available not for just one currency but all three.
Peace out....Everyone, feel free to discuss...
Please, Let's Keep This Thread Serious and 'On Topic'.
Here's the ugly truth about gaming companies. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only. A good quarterly earning statment.
Anything else they say, is tied into or subordinate to that fact: A good quarterly earning statent. Perfect balance like ya want, while it is utopia for players...for a minute, it's actually BAD for the gaming company pocket book.
Face it, they'll keep putting out shinies that make them money. And if it forces out the old guard to usher in a new guard that will fork over the $$$, PWE and other compaines will not care.
Face it, it's all about the bottom line.
I may come across as harsh and 'defending' PWE. I'm not, I'm merely calling it like I see it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Here's the ugly truth about gaming companies. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only. A good quarterly earning statment.
Anything else they say, is tied into or subordinate to that fact: A good quarterly earning statent. Perfect balance like ya want, while it is utopia for players...for a minute, it's actually BAD for the gaming company pocket book.
Face it, they'll keep putting out shinies that make them money. And if it forces out the old guard to usher in a new guard that will fork over the $$$, PWE and other compaines will not care.
Face it, it's all about the bottom line.
I may come across as harsh and 'defending' PWE. I'm not, I'm merely calling it like I see it.
Nice start: But, let's really let's ANALYZE THIS, in light of what FTP means to the business junkies and a IP Franchise like the ST Cannon. That's a standard line and stereotype: people always bow to the almighty dollar, or bottom line. But, is that True in a Free to Play Game Model...how many FTP Games are successful running like that? Let's name names, facts & figures...not platitudes.
I submit: In order to keep players plunking over money in a FTP Game..you need to keep them Happy and keep the Game Fresh...which means, reinvesting in what got the ball rolling. What is that ball in STO?
Nice start: But, let's really let's ANALYZE THIS, in light of what FTP means to the business junkies and a IP Franchise like the ST Cannon. That's a standard line and stereotype: people always bow to the almighty dollar, or bottom line. But, is that True in a Free to Play Game Model...how many FTP Games are successful running like that? Let's name names, facts & figures...not platitudes.
I submit: In order to keep players plunking over money in a FTP Game..you need to keep them Happy and keep the Game Fresh...which means, reinvesting in what got the ball rolling. What is that ball in STO?
Okay, I'll bite.
The ball in STO is the franchise appeal. Income in STO can be defined by
Zen purchased
Subscriptions purchased
Lifetimes purchased
Of which Zen can be broken down to:
Dilithium
C-Store (Items, Services, and LockBoxes)
From that, the amount of money made from the first list has to be greater than the cost of sustaining Cryptic Studios employees/utilities + license fee from CBS + desired profit margin from PWE.
Of those three from the first list, the biggest source of current income I'll guess to be is Zen. To get Zen they have to lure the player community with either:
New references from the franchise (ships, clothing, etc)
So what they need to do is keep pushing the player's appeal to the third list, to get them to spend on the second list, which then feeds the larger money revenue in the first list.
Everything else is free (FEs, social maps, queued missions, etc) to support the involvement of the items in the third list and to make those items more appealing.
... I kinda need to take a moment and I'll try to continue this train of thought in a followup post.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
"In 2011, revenue from free-to-play games overtook revenue from premium games in the top 100 games in Apple's App Store.[21] The number of people that spend money on in-game items in these games ranges from 0.5% to 6%, depending on a game's quality and mechanics. Even though this means that a large number of people will never spend money in a game, it also means that the people that do spend money could amount to a sizeable number due to the fact that the game was given away for free.[21]"
So, say, if 5% of Star Trek Online's players are 'wagging the dog' doesn't that 5% get smaller everytime someone leaves the game because it's not balanced to keep F2P players, especially Veterans, happy and loyal?
Well since we are talking business models let us talk about the gaming industry... not just video games.
Anybody remember the late 90's and a company called "Wiz Kids"? They put out a game called Mage Knight. It was wildly successful earning over 30 Million in less than 6 months, Not shabby at all for a company selling plastic wargaming figurines. Next thing you know they came out with a power creep set, then another. Each set offered more new powers and made the older sets obselete. The company got greedy and started rolling out a new set every 90 days. The players said they had enough and went and spent thier money on something else.... mage knight tried a relaunch 2.0 but it was dead on arrival.
So that company bought mechwarrior and repeated the doomed mistakes of the Mage Knight Game. So then they took all of thier profits and came out with Hero Clicks with Marvel and DC comic book heroes and villians. It sold for a while, but the stupid business model of the power creep which had already killed off two successful games was followed once again. Moral of the story they had wonderful concepts but terrible implementation and they didn't listen to the customers. As a result the company was sold to TOPPS trading cards and is now on the verge of if not already in bankruptcy.
Hey PWE think you are too big to fail? Seems like I also remember the grand daddy of RPG's Dungeons and Dragons thought the same way. They didn't listen to thier fanbase thought they knew better. Along about 2000 they changed the game to 3.0 edition and then within 18 months changed it to 3.5 edition. At first the fans complained about having to buy all of the source books AGAIN spending roughly $50.00 a copy for each of the 46 rules books and rules supplements. The Wizards of the Coast sold out to HASBRO because of Pokemon cards offer. D&D never recovered... the upper management tried to create a video game on paper and rolled out 4th Edition. It failed utterly and miserably. The result was a spinoff company called Paizo which went back and tried to use Pathfinder to support 3.5 Edition. Last year at GENCON the fans were all lined up at Pazio buying stuff and the D&D booth was empty except for people wanting to have thier picture taken with the Spider Goddess. HASBRO would love to dump the RPG but they paid over 150 Million for it and it is worth about 5% of that. The only saving grace is PWE is paying for the license to use the game. Otherwise it too would go the way of the Dodo.....
So, say, if 5% of Star Trek Online's players are 'wagging the dog' doesn't that 5% get smaller everytime someone leaves the game because it's not balanced to keep F2P players, especially Veterans, happy and loyal?
Not necessarily. I'm willing to assume that due to franchise appeal that there are sufficient newcomers who are willing to spend actual money are coming into the game. Please see list three in my previous post, especially for "New references from the franchise (ships, clothing, etc)". The franchise is still popular enough to create new fans everyday and not everyone is a smart shopper.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
My belief and premise about Free to Play games is that to be successful you need two things: 1) You need to Keep players coming back, and 2) You need to Keep them happy.
Since the game is free, the players do keep coming back. So number 1 is built in.
Thinking about PWE Star Trek Online, the word that we need is, 'Balance'.
I strongly disagree. These kinds of games never work with balance. Balance "issues" are constantly being argued and trolled and debated about in EVERY MMO forum in existence. The players themselves don't even want balance. What they want is for their gameplay to be superior or FEEL superior to others' gameplay. Players want to feel special and others not to feel as special as they feel. That's not and never has been a desire for balance.
Honestly, How can a game that markets itself as Free to Play have less content and gear that are available for FREE than content and things that require purchase? IMHO, the FREE part is STAGNANT and has gone by the wayside.
That's by design. You can play the game for free. You want a leg up? You pay.
My suggestion is that If it's not being taken seriously already, The VETERAN REWARDs and Lifetime Subs Rewards Programs need to be Overhauled and Revitalized...
Uh oh. I got allllll the way into this discussion and then fell off this cliff. You want to revitalize the free part of the game? And your suggestion is veteran rewards and lifetime sub benefits? Neither of which are FREE?
I don't get it. You set this entire thing up to discuss how the free part of the game is stagnant, but you want to make things better for people who Sub, or have paid for the Lifetime Sub. Not free players.
The ball in STO is the franchise appeal. Income in STO can be defined by
Zen purchased
Subscriptions purchased
Lifetimes purchased
I agree, the Franchise Appeal: It's not necessarily STOs game engine or special effects 'wow' factor. That drew me to try the game a few years back. It was the days /months coming home to watch TOS afterschool with a grilled cheese samich
I agree, the Franchise Appeal: It's not necessarily STOs game engine or special effects 'wow' factor. That drew me to try the game a few years back. It was the days /months coming home to watch TOS afterschool with a grilled cheese samich
Right and the biggest revenue by far in my opinion is the amount of Zen being bought and then being spent.
Which has nothing to do with Veteran Awards and Lifetime Subscription awards. Well, you get that 500 Zen montly stipend but that it.
Their income is based on the average free player putting down a bit of money for some Zen at the time of their choosing to get the things that remind them of Star Trek and to use those things.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
I strongly disagree. These kinds of games never work with balance. Balance "issues" are constantly being argued and trolled and debated about in EVERY MMO forum in existence. The players themselves don't even want balance. What they want is for their gameplay to be superior or FEEL superior to others' gameplay. Players want to feel special and others not to feel as special as they feel. That's not and never has been a desire for balance.
I disagree with that...in a sense. Players want to FEEL superior to others...but there are different kinds of players.
Some players want to FEEL superior because they've got ABC gear than the other player does not.
Some players want to FEEL superior because they simply are superior - they're just outright better at the game.
Go back in time to ye olde video arcade, take a look at the high score screen. Simple as that. With everybody playing the same game, they can prove their superiority. With a game full of various gimmicks like STO is, well - how much is even the player and how much is all the gimmicks?
So yeah, there are the folks that cry Nerf X and buff Y, when they're not doing X but they're doing Y...but then there are the folks that actually do want balance...so they can feel superior because they are.
And well, of course there are folks opposed to that - because they know where they fit in with the foodchain without all the gimmicky garbage. I know I'm way down there on the hierarchy without it...but I can still feel superior to those below me while those above me can feel superior to me.
It leaves room for actual player growth...I can actually work at getting better rather than find that I'm getting worse because of all the gimmicky TRIBBLE. I think that's a big part of the uproar over the traits, folks on a subconscious level know they've been getting worse and when their toys are taken away, they're just left with the cold stark reality of how bad they were or how bad they've gotten...
With STO being the casual game it is - having spent two years implementing every crutch they could think of - now that they're looking at it a little differently, looking at the long term survival of the game and how the silliness cannot go on...they're going to get slammed by the folks they've catered to for the past couple of years...
Well we're discussing churn right? In MMOs, players leave, and come back. Lots of them. In Free to Play MMOs like this one, the coming back part is super easy. Because there's no cracking out the credit card to re-sub for a month to see how things are going. It's just fire up the launcher and patch everything and log in.
All those threads you read to get this idea going for your discussion? Check back in 6, 9, 12 months and quite a few of the most rage-filled posters will have done two things:
1- Left the game for awhile.
2- Came back to check on it.
Which players? Those players.
What, huh! F2P Players become Veterans eventually. LTS are also Free to Play, especially because they purchased the LTS. Where's the problem?
I think the problem is I'm confused as to what it is you're trying to improve. Ideas to enhance the veteran rewards are great. But they don't affect the issue you brought up of the free to play part of the game stagnating. Free players don't accrue days played toward veteran rewards. Only subscribers do.
So while on the one hand, a thread about ideas to improve vet rewards is great ... it's not really focused on improving the free part of the game.
It's still paid for content. Not quite a lockbox, but something people have to pay for to acquire.
I need to head out so I'm just going to conclude my first post in this thread by saying that so long as STO keeps adding in enough items that references the Star Trek franchise, can only be purchasable through the Zen system, and keeps providing the environments to use those items in then they'll continue along just fine money-wise.
The only real veteran reward I see (outside of the mentioned subscription/lifetime rewards) is that you are a better shopper. That's all.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
What, huh! F2P Players become Veterans eventually. LTS are also Free to Play, especially because they purchased the LTS. Where's the problem?
I think the problem is I'm confused as to what it is you're trying to improve. Ideas to enhance the veteran rewards are great. But they don't affect the issue you brought up of the free to play part of the game stagnating. Free players don't accrue days played toward veteran rewards. Only subscribers do.
It's still paid for content. Not quite a lockbox, but something people have to pay for to acquire.[/QUOTE]
My apologies for the confusion. My definition of Free to Play: The content/items/gear, anything in-game that does not require acutal real world dollars to acquire. I hope that helps.
All games can improve, especially the ones that want longevity. I'm confident with that statement.
After Star Trek Online adopted a hybrid Free-to-Play model, a third, no-fee tier was added. Silver Class users have no monthly fee, but limited access to certain features. Gold Class users pay the subscription fee in exchange for perks not offered to the Silver Players and a monthly allotment of ZEN included. Lifetime players have the same perks as Gold Class players, including the monthly ZEN allowance and all of the veteran rewards issued immediately, without the monthly fee. All three tiers have access to the C-Store.
Okay, Sorry. I understand, my mistake now...I've been an LTS for awhile so ignored this information. Silver, Gold and LTS. Okay. I assumed silver had access to Veteran Rewards....
In any case, I believe a game that's based on a F2P model with a great IP Franchise appeal like Star Trek, stands to gain more and lose less by rewarding the gamers who invest the most time playing the game.
Well since we are talking business models let us talk about the gaming industry... not just video games.
Anybody remember the late 90's and a company called "Wiz Kids"? They put out a game called Mage Knight. It was wildly successful earning over 30 Million in less than 6 months, Not shabby at all for a company selling plastic wargaming figurines. Next thing you know they came out with a power creep set, then another. Each set offered more new powers and made the older sets obselete. The company got greedy and started rolling out a new set every 90 days. The players said they had enough and went and spent thier money on something else.... mage knight tried a relaunch 2.0 but it was dead on arrival.
So that company bought mechwarrior and repeated the doomed mistakes of the Mage Knight Game. So then they took all of thier profits and came out with Hero Clicks with Marvel and DC comic book heroes and villians. It sold for a while, but the stupid business model of the power creep which had already killed off two successful games was followed once again. Moral of the story they had wonderful concepts but terrible implementation and they didn't listen to the customers. As a result the company was sold to TOPPS trading cards and is now on the verge of if not already in bankruptcy.
Hey PWE think you are too big to fail? Seems like I also remember the grand daddy of RPG's Dungeons and Dragons thought the same way. They didn't listen to thier fanbase thought they knew better. Along about 2000 they changed the game to 3.0 edition and then within 18 months changed it to 3.5 edition. At first the fans complained about having to buy all of the source books AGAIN spending roughly $50.00 a copy for each of the 46 rules books and rules supplements. The Wizards of the Coast sold out to HASBRO because of Pokemon cards offer. D&D never recovered... the upper management tried to create a video game on paper and rolled out 4th Edition. It failed utterly and miserably. The result was a spinoff company called Paizo which went back and tried to use Pathfinder to support 3.5 Edition. Last year at GENCON the fans were all lined up at Pazio buying stuff and the D&D booth was empty except for people wanting to have thier picture taken with the Spider Goddess. HASBRO would love to dump the RPG but they paid over 150 Million for it and it is worth about 5% of that. The only saving grace is PWE is paying for the license to use the game. Otherwise it too would go the way of the Dodo.....
I don't see the above as relevant here (I wish it was , but it's not IMHO) -- but having said that , it was a good read !
If you're interested in Cryptic's POV these days ... , and how they have a "pulley" system for every type of Player Behavior , you might want to take a listen to the recent episode of STOked (Ep 78 -- unedited) , in which Capt. Gecko says a few things about the MMO Publisher side of things (starts @ 01:11.30) .
Well since we are talking business models let us talk about the gaming industry... not just video games.
Anybody remember the late 90's and a company called "Wiz Kids"? They put out a game called Mage Knight. It was wildly successful earning over 30 Million in less than 6 months, Not shabby at all for a company selling plastic wargaming figurines. Next thing you know they came out with a power creep set, then another. Each set offered more new powers and made the older sets obselete. The company got greedy and started rolling out a new set every 90 days. The players said they had enough and went and spent thier money on something else.... mage knight tried a relaunch 2.0 but it was dead on arrival.
So that company bought mechwarrior and repeated the doomed mistakes of the Mage Knight Game. So then they took all of thier profits and came out with Hero Clicks with Marvel and DC comic book heroes and villians. It sold for a while, but the stupid business model of the power creep which had already killed off two successful games was followed once again. Moral of the story they had wonderful concepts but terrible implementation and they didn't listen to the customers. As a result the company was sold to TOPPS trading cards and is now on the verge of if not already in bankruptcy.
Hey PWE think you are too big to fail? Seems like I also remember the grand daddy of RPG's Dungeons and Dragons thought the same way. They didn't listen to thier fanbase thought they knew better. Along about 2000 they changed the game to 3.0 edition and then within 18 months changed it to 3.5 edition. At first the fans complained about having to buy all of the source books AGAIN spending roughly $50.00 a copy for each of the 46 rules books and rules supplements. The Wizards of the Coast sold out to HASBRO because of Pokemon cards offer. D&D never recovered... the upper management tried to create a video game on paper and rolled out 4th Edition. It failed utterly and miserably. The result was a spinoff company called Paizo which went back and tried to use Pathfinder to support 3.5 Edition. Last year at GENCON the fans were all lined up at Pazio buying stuff and the D&D booth was empty except for people wanting to have thier picture taken with the Spider Goddess. HASBRO would love to dump the RPG but they paid over 150 Million for it and it is worth about 5% of that. The only saving grace is PWE is paying for the license to use the game. Otherwise it too would go the way of the Dodo.....
Yes, Does anyone think PWE is at a crossroads in terms of Star Trek Online's Success?
I think one commodity that Cryptic has lost alot of is Trust or Faith from the playerbase.
- The most recent Rep Trait revamp has removed alot of the 'trust' that a player will get to keep their progression prize.
- PvP and gimmicks. Although I do think they have tried many times to rebuild that bridge to varying degrees of success.
- Ship updates. I used to be a 'buy them all' kind of person. The lack of effective updates to under performing ships has made me carefully consider each and every ship purchase.
- Not paying for Content. To me the content of STO would be the fun little pieces of the build puzzle. The traits, the kit modules, the ships, the sets, the consoles and so on. While they have done a really good job with some of that, a decent job with others, some are simply locked behind master keys.
- Past currency revamps. Nuff said.
Now their are good reasons for each of those decisions. And player trust is honestly not as important in a 'churn heavy' game model. But it does matter the only question being how much does it matter. While some things I strongly disagree with overall I still enjoy the game. However with nearly every revamp so far the Vet has gotten burned and more content is found in the boxes. I do not know where I will draw the line, but I do know that their is a line.
Expansion 2 will be interesting. I am very curious what all those ship artists are busy working on when it has been repeated over and over no new faction will be added. I'm hoping they are just going to add factions directly into the Fed/KDF and are just playing with words but if the real release ends up being tier 5.75 ships I will not be happy.
Comments
Anything else they say, is tied into or subordinate to that fact: A good quarterly earning statent. Perfect balance like ya want, while it is utopia for players...for a minute, it's actually BAD for the gaming company pocket book.
Face it, they'll keep putting out shinies that make them money. And if it forces out the old guard to usher in a new guard that will fork over the $$$, PWE and other compaines will not care.
Face it, it's all about the bottom line.
I may come across as harsh and 'defending' PWE. I'm not, I'm merely calling it like I see it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Nice start: But, let's really let's ANALYZE THIS, in light of what FTP means to the business junkies and a IP Franchise like the ST Cannon. That's a standard line and stereotype: people always bow to the almighty dollar, or bottom line. But, is that True in a Free to Play Game Model...how many FTP Games are successful running like that? Let's name names, facts & figures...not platitudes.
I submit: In order to keep players plunking over money in a FTP Game..you need to keep them Happy and keep the Game Fresh...which means, reinvesting in what got the ball rolling. What is that ball in STO?
My character Tsin'xing
Yes, that's why I am asking for information and ideas!
Yes, I know...me, Google & Wikipedia go way back...I even used to know AltaVista & Jeeves. Okay, point taken.
Okay, I'll bite.
The ball in STO is the franchise appeal. Income in STO can be defined by
Of which Zen can be broken down to:
From that, the amount of money made from the first list has to be greater than the cost of sustaining Cryptic Studios employees/utilities + license fee from CBS + desired profit margin from PWE.
Of those three from the first list, the biggest source of current income I'll guess to be is Zen. To get Zen they have to lure the player community with either:
So what they need to do is keep pushing the player's appeal to the third list, to get them to spend on the second list, which then feeds the larger money revenue in the first list.
Everything else is free (FEs, social maps, queued missions, etc) to support the involvement of the items in the third list and to make those items more appealing.
... I kinda need to take a moment and I'll try to continue this train of thought in a followup post.
(UFP) Ragnar
"In 2011, revenue from free-to-play games overtook revenue from premium games in the top 100 games in Apple's App Store.[21] The number of people that spend money on in-game items in these games ranges from 0.5% to 6%, depending on a game's quality and mechanics. Even though this means that a large number of people will never spend money in a game, it also means that the people that do spend money could amount to a sizeable number due to the fact that the game was given away for free.[21]"
So, say, if 5% of Star Trek Online's players are 'wagging the dog' doesn't that 5% get smaller everytime someone leaves the game because it's not balanced to keep F2P players, especially Veterans, happy and loyal?
Anybody remember the late 90's and a company called "Wiz Kids"? They put out a game called Mage Knight. It was wildly successful earning over 30 Million in less than 6 months, Not shabby at all for a company selling plastic wargaming figurines. Next thing you know they came out with a power creep set, then another. Each set offered more new powers and made the older sets obselete. The company got greedy and started rolling out a new set every 90 days. The players said they had enough and went and spent thier money on something else.... mage knight tried a relaunch 2.0 but it was dead on arrival.
So that company bought mechwarrior and repeated the doomed mistakes of the Mage Knight Game. So then they took all of thier profits and came out with Hero Clicks with Marvel and DC comic book heroes and villians. It sold for a while, but the stupid business model of the power creep which had already killed off two successful games was followed once again. Moral of the story they had wonderful concepts but terrible implementation and they didn't listen to the customers. As a result the company was sold to TOPPS trading cards and is now on the verge of if not already in bankruptcy.
Hey PWE think you are too big to fail? Seems like I also remember the grand daddy of RPG's Dungeons and Dragons thought the same way. They didn't listen to thier fanbase thought they knew better. Along about 2000 they changed the game to 3.0 edition and then within 18 months changed it to 3.5 edition. At first the fans complained about having to buy all of the source books AGAIN spending roughly $50.00 a copy for each of the 46 rules books and rules supplements. The Wizards of the Coast sold out to HASBRO because of Pokemon cards offer. D&D never recovered... the upper management tried to create a video game on paper and rolled out 4th Edition. It failed utterly and miserably. The result was a spinoff company called Paizo which went back and tried to use Pathfinder to support 3.5 Edition. Last year at GENCON the fans were all lined up at Pazio buying stuff and the D&D booth was empty except for people wanting to have thier picture taken with the Spider Goddess. HASBRO would love to dump the RPG but they paid over 150 Million for it and it is worth about 5% of that. The only saving grace is PWE is paying for the license to use the game. Otherwise it too would go the way of the Dodo.....
Not necessarily. I'm willing to assume that due to franchise appeal that there are sufficient newcomers who are willing to spend actual money are coming into the game. Please see list three in my previous post, especially for "New references from the franchise (ships, clothing, etc)". The franchise is still popular enough to create new fans everyday and not everyone is a smart shopper.
(UFP) Ragnar
Since the game is free, the players do keep coming back. So number 1 is built in.
I strongly disagree. These kinds of games never work with balance. Balance "issues" are constantly being argued and trolled and debated about in EVERY MMO forum in existence. The players themselves don't even want balance. What they want is for their gameplay to be superior or FEEL superior to others' gameplay. Players want to feel special and others not to feel as special as they feel. That's not and never has been a desire for balance.
That's by design. You can play the game for free. You want a leg up? You pay.
Uh oh. I got allllll the way into this discussion and then fell off this cliff. You want to revitalize the free part of the game? And your suggestion is veteran rewards and lifetime sub benefits? Neither of which are FREE?
I don't get it. You set this entire thing up to discuss how the free part of the game is stagnant, but you want to make things better for people who Sub, or have paid for the Lifetime Sub. Not free players.
What?
I agree, the Franchise Appeal: It's not necessarily STOs game engine or special effects 'wow' factor. That drew me to try the game a few years back. It was the days /months coming home to watch TOS afterschool with a grilled cheese samich
Right and the biggest revenue by far in my opinion is the amount of Zen being bought and then being spent.
Which has nothing to do with Veteran Awards and Lifetime Subscription awards. Well, you get that 500 Zen montly stipend but that it.
Their income is based on the average free player putting down a bit of money for some Zen at the time of their choosing to get the things that remind them of Star Trek and to use those things.
(UFP) Ragnar
I disagree with that...in a sense. Players want to FEEL superior to others...but there are different kinds of players.
Some players want to FEEL superior because they've got ABC gear than the other player does not.
Some players want to FEEL superior because they simply are superior - they're just outright better at the game.
Go back in time to ye olde video arcade, take a look at the high score screen. Simple as that. With everybody playing the same game, they can prove their superiority. With a game full of various gimmicks like STO is, well - how much is even the player and how much is all the gimmicks?
So yeah, there are the folks that cry Nerf X and buff Y, when they're not doing X but they're doing Y...but then there are the folks that actually do want balance...so they can feel superior because they are.
And well, of course there are folks opposed to that - because they know where they fit in with the foodchain without all the gimmicky garbage. I know I'm way down there on the hierarchy without it...but I can still feel superior to those below me while those above me can feel superior to me.
It leaves room for actual player growth...I can actually work at getting better rather than find that I'm getting worse because of all the gimmicky TRIBBLE. I think that's a big part of the uproar over the traits, folks on a subconscious level know they've been getting worse and when their toys are taken away, they're just left with the cold stark reality of how bad they were or how bad they've gotten...
With STO being the casual game it is - having spent two years implementing every crutch they could think of - now that they're looking at it a little differently, looking at the long term survival of the game and how the silliness cannot go on...they're going to get slammed by the folks they've catered to for the past couple of years...
Well we're discussing churn right? In MMOs, players leave, and come back. Lots of them. In Free to Play MMOs like this one, the coming back part is super easy. Because there's no cracking out the credit card to re-sub for a month to see how things are going. It's just fire up the launcher and patch everything and log in.
All those threads you read to get this idea going for your discussion? Check back in 6, 9, 12 months and quite a few of the most rage-filled posters will have done two things:
1- Left the game for awhile.
2- Came back to check on it.
Which players? Those players.
What, huh! F2P Players become Veterans eventually. LTS are also Free to Play, especially because they purchased the LTS. Where's the problem?
I think the problem is I'm confused as to what it is you're trying to improve. Ideas to enhance the veteran rewards are great. But they don't affect the issue you brought up of the free to play part of the game stagnating. Free players don't accrue days played toward veteran rewards. Only subscribers do.
So while on the one hand, a thread about ideas to improve vet rewards is great ... it's not really focused on improving the free part of the game.
It's still paid for content. Not quite a lockbox, but something people have to pay for to acquire.
The only real veteran reward I see (outside of the mentioned subscription/lifetime rewards) is that you are a better shopper. That's all.
(UFP) Ragnar
What, huh! F2P Players become Veterans eventually. LTS are also Free to Play, especially because they purchased the LTS. Where's the problem?
I think the problem is I'm confused as to what it is you're trying to improve. Ideas to enhance the veteran rewards are great. But they don't affect the issue you brought up of the free to play part of the game stagnating. Free players don't accrue days played toward veteran rewards. Only subscribers do.
It's still paid for content. Not quite a lockbox, but something people have to pay for to acquire.[/QUOTE]
My apologies for the confusion. My definition of Free to Play: The content/items/gear, anything in-game that does not require acutal real world dollars to acquire. I hope that helps.
All games can improve, especially the ones that want longevity. I'm confident with that statement.
After Star Trek Online adopted a hybrid Free-to-Play model, a third, no-fee tier was added. Silver Class users have no monthly fee, but limited access to certain features. Gold Class users pay the subscription fee in exchange for perks not offered to the Silver Players and a monthly allotment of ZEN included. Lifetime players have the same perks as Gold Class players, including the monthly ZEN allowance and all of the veteran rewards issued immediately, without the monthly fee. All three tiers have access to the C-Store.
Okay, Sorry. I understand, my mistake now...I've been an LTS for awhile so ignored this information. Silver, Gold and LTS. Okay. I assumed silver had access to Veteran Rewards....
In any case, I believe a game that's based on a F2P model with a great IP Franchise appeal like Star Trek, stands to gain more and lose less by rewarding the gamers who invest the most time playing the game.
Back on Topic Please
I don't see the above as relevant here (I wish it was , but it's not IMHO) -- but having said that , it was a good read !
If you're interested in Cryptic's POV these days ... , and how they have a "pulley" system for every type of Player Behavior , you might want to take a listen to the recent episode of STOked (Ep 78 -- unedited) , in which Capt. Gecko says a few things about the MMO Publisher side of things (starts @ 01:11.30) .
Yes, Does anyone think PWE is at a crossroads in terms of Star Trek Online's Success?
- The most recent Rep Trait revamp has removed alot of the 'trust' that a player will get to keep their progression prize.
- PvP and gimmicks. Although I do think they have tried many times to rebuild that bridge to varying degrees of success.
- Ship updates. I used to be a 'buy them all' kind of person. The lack of effective updates to under performing ships has made me carefully consider each and every ship purchase.
- Not paying for Content. To me the content of STO would be the fun little pieces of the build puzzle. The traits, the kit modules, the ships, the sets, the consoles and so on. While they have done a really good job with some of that, a decent job with others, some are simply locked behind master keys.
- Past currency revamps. Nuff said.
Now their are good reasons for each of those decisions. And player trust is honestly not as important in a 'churn heavy' game model. But it does matter the only question being how much does it matter. While some things I strongly disagree with overall I still enjoy the game. However with nearly every revamp so far the Vet has gotten burned and more content is found in the boxes. I do not know where I will draw the line, but I do know that their is a line.
Expansion 2 will be interesting. I am very curious what all those ship artists are busy working on when it has been repeated over and over no new faction will be added. I'm hoping they are just going to add factions directly into the Fed/KDF and are just playing with words but if the real release ends up being tier 5.75 ships I will not be happy.