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Request concerning the new trait system

djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
I'm not thrilled about losing some of my reputation traits, but I understand the idea of why. Especially considering that new reputations are not going to stop being added.

HOWEVER, I think having to choose only four space and four ground traits is a little restricting, and here's why. I play mostly SPACE PVE, and I NEVER PVP. Therefore, my four ground traits are pretty much wasted for me.

My request is that instead of four space and four ground traits, it be changed to simply eight REPUTATION traits. That way people who don't play ground can slot out for space, and vice versa. Otherwise it would still work exactly the same way, being able to switch out for the mission or whatever.

Thoughts?
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Post edited by djf021 on
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Comments

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The reason why they won't do this is that by making it 8 reputation slots instead of 4 ground and 4 space is that it changes to 8 ground and 8 space by just changing the traits to what type of map you are on. If you don't do ground, then just don't slot them. Of course, there is always the possibility of Cryptic adding more slots through the C-Store, Fleet Holding, or some other method. So 4/4/4 is not fixed and can be changed to what Cryptic needs.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    My god a well thought out logical response from somebody who didn't like the change then offered some thing constructive.

    OP You sir win at internet. And I actually agree with just having 8 universal slots instead of 4/4.

    That or go to 5/5 or 6/6. 4 a piece is a TAD low.
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I said it before and i say it again, 8/8/4

    Its really a no brainer, it puts on a cap on the power creep, and lets everyone presently playing the game keep all that they have already earned.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I said it before and i say it again, 8/8/4

    Its really a no brainer, it puts on a cap on the power creep, and lets everyone presently playing the game keep all that they have already earned.

    8/8/4 is a tad on the high side. 6/6/4 would be better.
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  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I could do with a couple more. At least one more.

    As it is, with all the passives, I have a bit too much choice.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    That or go to 5/5 or 6/6. 4 a piece is a TAD low.

    This is what I'm taking about. I mean I've already unlocked like 8 reputation: space traits alone, and now I have to pick between them?
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm seriously starting to think they should just delete the whole set of passives and just give everyone a few million EC as a refund for the consumables. Then perhaps everyone will stop crying about it.

    The sense of entitlement from having some zero's and one's going through a processor is starting to do my tree in.
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  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    djf021 wrote: »
    This is what I'm taking about. I mean I've already unlocked like 8 reputation: space traits alone, and now I have to pick between them?
    Wait till you get all of them. :P
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    djf021 wrote: »
    This is what I'm taking about. I mean I've already unlocked like 8 reputation: space traits alone, and now I have to pick between them?

    Look, its like deciding if you want a coke or a pepsi. In the real world, it means bobbins all. Inside your local takeaway, it means everything.
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  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well, its supposed to be restricting. That was the whole point of it, to severely limit how much more power you can add to your current load out. If you have too many available slots, you're just gonna end up having pretty much the same problem as before, which was too much advantage for those who already get too much out of their setup as it is. And this isn't just about limiting power creep. Brand new level 50 players who have yet to start on the rep system are at a severe disadvantage to those who have all of them done. This translate into both PvP and stf missions, making it pointless for these newbies to even make the attempt, since they have no chance to perform nearly as well as those rep grinders. This change has reduced this gap greatly, and I think its a good change.
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Yeah I have to say this is very restrictive, they definitely should have allowed us to choose what we wanted when we wanted especially with all of the time and resources we took in getting them the old way. (not the new dyson revamp way)

    It's amazing to me that they didn't think this through before releasing this and why didn't anyone on the test server mention this to them?

    6/6/4 would have been my choice.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    In my view, four slots is too few.......however not because its doesnt make me leet enough.

    Because, with four slots we have a relatively small pool of possible combinations and only a bit larger pool of good combinations.

    Essentially, it almost ensures that, at the highest level of the game, there will be a tendency to cookie cutter combinations.

    Eight is probably too many, six a lot better.

    However, what I've said before I'll say again.....I just can't see the point of limiting active powers at all.

    We'd need nine or ten reputation tracks to exist before we ever have to make a choice in this regard.

    More than sixteen reputation tracks before the possibility of having a wholly different loadout to someone else is achievable.

    In my view, removing the requirement to slot active powers merely removes an un-necessary piece of busy work and, in the long run, wont have a huge effect on power creep.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm seriously starting to think they should just delete the whole set of passives and just give everyone a few million EC as a refund for the consumables. Then perhaps everyone will stop crying about it.

    The sense of entitlement from having some zero's and one's going through a processor is starting to do my tree in.

    So people shouldn't feel entitled to what they have expended significant time and resources to earn?
    Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:
  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I finally understand, this was no mistake. This was completely intentional. Have you ever heard this before, Other counteries send there children and familys over here so they can go to our schools, gain reputation, get a exspensive education and increase their weath. Then place themselves in positions to alter our contries history or diminish it. This is whats happend, EA, Blizzard or Bioware or someone has sent some ppl to college paid for it and told them, one day your gonna get a phone call. cryptic has been infiltrated by spys (undine). They are delibertly destroying STO. Think about it, No video game company in its right mind would make such drastic NEGATIVE changes, ecspecially all at once. Talk about power creep, instead of slowly lowering full impulse they hit full reverse. I think its a inside job. Cryptic better wake up, they have undine in their mist.
  • dwatt78dwatt78 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The issue I have with only 4 passives is no one has a reason to waste time with rep that doesn't have a passive/gear they want. For example nukara rep offers almost nothing in passives and only one active which is meh so why would I waste time and resources to do it. In fact looking at the new one I am not sure I care to do it either as I have my 4 passives already.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    hyefather wrote: »
    I finally understand, this was no mistake. This was completely intentional. Have you ever heard this before, Other counteries send there children and familys over here so they can go to our schools, gain reputation, get a exspensive education and increase their weath. Then place themselves in positions to alter our contries history or diminish it. This is whats happend, EA, Blizzard or Bioware or someone has sent some ppl to college paid for it and told them, one day your gonna get a phone call. cryptic has been infiltrated by spys (undine). They are delibertly destroying STO. Think about it, No video game company in its right mind would make such drastic NEGATIVE changes, ecspecially all at once. Talk about power creep, instead of slowly lowering full impulse they hit full reverse. I think its a inside job. Cryptic better wake up, they have undine in their mist.

    I see you`ve never played World of Tanks. Major nerf changes like this happen almost every other patch.
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  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    So people shouldn't feel entitled to what they have expended significant time and resources to earn?
    Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

    You say that like I haven't expended exactly the same amount of time and resources earning them.
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  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dwatt78 wrote: »
    The issue I have with only 4 passives is no one has a reason to waste time with rep that doesn't have a passive/gear they want. For example nukara rep offers almost nothing in passives and only one active which is meh so why would I waste time and resources to do it. In fact looking at the new one I am not sure I care to do it either as I have my 4 passives already.

    this is one of the strong suits of new system, I'm only interested in 2 of the reps, so I can focus on those and not worry about being relatively underpowered. I'm going to get the rest at some point but I can do it at a relaxed pace when I'm in the mood.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Well, its supposed to be restricting. That was the whole point of it, to severely limit how much more power you can add to your current load out. If you have too many available slots, you're just gonna end up having pretty much the same problem as before, which was too much advantage for those who already get too much out of their setup as it is. And this isn't just about limiting power creep. Brand new level 50 players who have yet to start on the rep system are at a severe disadvantage to those who have all of them done. This translate into both PvP and stf missions, making it pointless for these newbies to even make the attempt, since they have no chance to perform nearly as well as those rep grinders. This change has reduced this gap greatly, and I think its a good change.

    I love when people say this TRIBBLE, hey guess what they still need grind those reps if they want the choice of those powers, so it does nothing for them at all.
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  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    8 universal slots would be the best imo
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think what I really can't get my head round with the rep revamp is how it actually helps out a Lvl 50 newbie.

    I mean when they get to 50 they will still have no rep done yet so they are still going to be less powerful than someone who has done all the reps to T5. And they are still going to have to run through all of the reps to have access to the powers and traits that I have.

    But the one thing I really don't like is that why shouldn't a new Lvl 50 player feel underpowered compared to my veteran level Avenger or Vesta? I've spent months grinding out the rep system and pouring FCs into my fleet to get the best of the best gear and traits etc so I can have to optimum build available to my play style.
    A new player should be underpowered to start with but the incentive is there to push through and get to your best by playing the game. It should be a goal for newer players to aim for. They shouldn't expect to be given everything straight away and that is how it is in real life.
    You want an OP scimitar? Then get off your TRIBBLE and go get one! Want a full set of Nukara traits for your tetryon boat? Go and work through the rep to get them.

    The older player base should not get nerfed because cryptic are worried of noobs being scared off if they can't steamroller through ISE in 30 secs.
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  • dova25dova25 Member Posts: 475
    edited April 2014
    sophus84at wrote: »
    8 universal slots would be the best imo


    I think 8 slots for ground and 8 for space would be better.( i don't like the idea of changing in mid mission traits)
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Also been thinking that with only 4 slots people are being pushed towards swapping out for each mission.
    I guarantee most people wont bother, they will pick 4 they will get the best use from and leave it at that. I personally can't see the point in swapping my traits for every different mission when the mission only lasts 15 mins.

    That means once you've got you favourite traits you've no reason to go through reps anymore to get the other options. Unless you want specific kits or weapons from the reps.

    Means most reps will get ignored after a couple of tiers.
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  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Also been thinking that with only 4 slots people are being pushed towards swapping out for each mission.
    I guarantee most people wont bother, they will pick 4 they will get the best use from and leave it at that. I personally can't see the point in swapping my traits for every different mission when the mission only lasts 15 mins.

    That means once you've got you favourite traits you've no reason to go through reps anymore to get the other options. Unless you want specific kits or weapons from the reps.

    Means most reps will get ignored after a couple of tiers.


    But that is also the case in the old trait system. A player with two traits outclasses a player with zero far more than a player with 10 to a player with 8. It is the proces of diminishing returns. Every new reputation nerfs the older ones.

    This means that the game system where content is added which makes the character stronger and stronger is a dead end street. At some point it becomes meaningless.

    What they should do is make new content of course. but also add tools so players can build their own subclasses and experiment with builds.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    djf021 wrote: »
    I'm not thrilled about losing some of my reputation traits, but I understand the idea of why. Especially considering that new reputations are not going to stop being added.

    HOWEVER, I think having to choose only four space and four ground traits is a little restricting, and here's why. I play mostly SPACE PVE, and I NEVER PVP. Therefore, my four ground traits are pretty much wasted for me.

    My request is that instead of four space and four ground traits, it be changed to simply eight REPUTATION traits. That way people who don't play ground can slot out for space, and vice versa. Otherwise it would still work exactly the same way, being able to switch out for the mission or whatever.

    Thoughts?

    While 8 rep traits would be nice (and I've been asking for that since S9 was in Tribble), 8 ground/8 space would be the same as 8 universal, the 8/8 scheme being more practical as people wouldn't have to swap all ground skills with space in the 8 universal scheme if they cared for both ground and space.

    But 8/8 will never happen from the looks of it. I think the devs think they're giving too many (16) options. At least 8 universal has a precedent with normal Traits, and I seriously hope they don't take those away from us, turning it into some 4/4 scheme like rep traits.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I said it before and i say it again, 8/8/4

    Its really a no brainer, it puts on a cap on the power creep, and lets everyone presently playing the game keep all that they have already earned.

    ^^ This.

    Or 4/4/4, with the first 2 '4' being universal.

    In fact, the last '4' has always been too much to begin with. 6/6/2 would have been better, in that regard.
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  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In fact, the last '4' has always been too much to begin with. 6/6/2 would have been better, in that regard.

    I'd happily take 6/6/2. In fact given that I find the active traits to be lackluster at best I'd even settle for 6/6/0.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    daboholic wrote: »
    I'd happily take 6/6/2. In fact given that I find the active traits to be lackluster at best I'd even settle for 6/6/0.

    Yeah, especially since 100% 'Actives' are all on a 5 mins shared CD to start with. So, it's more like 4/4/'1-out-of-4-every-5-minutes.'
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  • aduinfinrod1aduinfinrod1 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I agree for a change in 8/8/4, even if i think that, with the new rep system in future season, could be better improve a 8/8 for personal and passive traits, and a 3/3 for ground active rep traits.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I get what they are trying to do, but they fail on execution of it all. Especially when they haven't tackled the real power creep problem, lockboxes and the Fleet equipment..

    Tbh for me, the rep changes didn't make a whole lot of difference to my playability. I just don't use what I consider to be the less powerful passives.

    Would it be better to have 8 universal? Yes of course, but it will not make the game unplayable for me if it stays as is..
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