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Science ships vs Escorts
originalspock
Member Posts: 809 Arc User
How come an escort can have massive amounts of firepower, and still move like a light weight race car while expelling more energy then cruisers or science ships?
Why aren't science ships the leaders in speed? (not just the lock box time ships), They are supposed to have an edge on the tech, but they seem to be unable to have any genuine effect on anything unless they are a drain build right?
Why aren't science ships the leaders in speed? (not just the lock box time ships), They are supposed to have an edge on the tech, but they seem to be unable to have any genuine effect on anything unless they are a drain build right?
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Science can only do so much as to tickle the enemy to death while Escorts pretty much maul everything in their 45 degree Arc when they hit Scatter volley
Sadly I don't think that this is ever going to change.
Its the reason I became an Escort captain.
well the vesta is the closest you can get to a an escort anyway + a hangar. try the same thing with a pure sci vessel like Luna, Intrepid, olympic...
also, which ship in PVE lives long enough to make sci abilities count? most sci abilities still linger around for 2/3 of their duration after the NPC ship is gone.
fact is, sci heavy escorts and carriers are the better sci vessels in PVE...vesta is actually a good example for it since it is more or less a hybrid of both.
And to build a good sci vessel you need experiance, nothing really for a new player. Other games have classes that are suited for experianced players, STO is no different.
hopefully 2nd deflector and improved sensor analasys will close the gap between the other ship classes and sci vessels
The problem is that combat in STO is mostly about how much damage you can deal. Every ship class can, with the right BO powers and optionally consoles, DOFFs and set items, amass enough self-healing and "hardening" capability to deal with any type of foe, but the escort comes with firepower that makes combat really fast.
Two possible routes I could say:
- Instead of defining Escorts as "damage dealers", they should be "maneuverabily/speed" focused ships, making all ships capable of similar damage output (sometimes in form of weapons,sometimes in terms of science powers"
- Give Escorts longer "pauses" between battles. An Escort may be able to murder-death-master-kill a Borg Cube in 10 seconds, but it will need 50 more seconds to do it again, while a SV or Cruiser would be able to kill the Cube in 60 seconds, so they are both roughly needing the same time for dealing with multiple enemies.
Escort Class Mods
2 Devices (1 below average)
+ Defense (10% above average)
+ Speed/Turn (?? above average)
- Shield Cap/Regen (10% below average)
+Can equip Dual Cannons
Science Class Mods
6 Weapon Slots (-1 average)
- Hull (10% below average)
+ Shield Cap/Regen (30% above average)
+Subsystem Targeting
+Sensor Analysis
+Cloak Detection
Their tech is focused upon their shields and sensors. They have even recently changed many boff abilities to have a much larger targeting arc to accommodate science vessels that choose to run a broadside setup and to make it much easier to use the boff abilities against more nimble ships.
They are also adding secondary deflectors (some day) to science vessels and the upgraded Sensor Analysis will be a noticeable DPS boost for those willing to put up with the silly graphic and extra clicking.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
It works.
For example: GW3+EPtW1+APB2+FAW2+Sensor Scan3+5 beam arrays+KCB with overcapped weapon power and high aux power, all your energy weapon skills, lots of particle gens, high attack pattern skill, decent Grav gens skill and you alone can wipe out anything within 5km of your grav well in moments.
Or if you have one big ship like a Typhoon, Tykens 2, Tractor beam 2, Beam Target shields, EPtW1, Subnuke (for the EPtS), Photonic fleet (overkill), plus other misc things from the above combo and it to will die in moments.
And people say science is weak...
Sensor Analysis, Subsystem Targeting are little compared to a DPS of 50,000 that can obliterate an entire cube in less than 10 seconds.
As for Cloak detection that system is broken and has been for a long time.
STO is a game that is dependent on DPS to that degree an Escort will always be superior because it can reach much higher DPS levels at the end of the day the objective is not to trap or debuff the enemy it is to destroy them a team of Escorts will complete an STF far more quickly and efficiently than a group of Science ships.
And an escort can do the equievlent, in half the abilities and a quarter of the time lol
Most of the players are Tactical so they don't complain when it benefits them.
That's not really relevant to the list though. Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targeting do exist. And are part of a science ship's itemization budget. So they do exactly what that list says they do.
Science ships have these things as part of their defining characteristics.
Not speed.
Not dual heavy cannon spam.
It's already fascinating enough that if you want to fly a DHC spamming science ship, you actually can. So get a Vesta and have at it.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Not necessarily
Stand in front of my Wells and let me see how hard I can hit you with a combination of dual AP beams, 360 beams and gravometric torps.
OK, let me rephrase for DPS centric people. In order for CC to be effective, your DPS has to be junk. Grav torp based CC isn't exactly pure science.
And therein lies the problem. That the effects of Science are miniscule in PVE & PVP.
In PVP, all of the highest end Science effects at Cmdr & LtCdr are easily negated by Ensign level skills. They are also lessened by the 2 lowest tiered Skillboxes, while working up worthwhile Science effects requires spending in mid to higher tiered Skillboxes. In short, it's too easy to neuter Science effects. There is nothing that renders Tactical abilities completely useless and pointless, but Science? All to easy.
In PVE, the effects technically do work, since the AI never tries to counter anything you do despite what you do, how much you do. The problem is that the sheer numbers NPCs have for hull, shields, etc. make whatever effects you do as Science ineffective. The ONLY thing that works on NPCs is CC Grav Well for grouping and a full-on, absolutely dedicated Drain Build. Everything else like Tachyon Beam is a joke and tickles the NPCs.
Indeed. Grav Torp in PVE is godlike, but in PVP, is good for lols, as in wondering wth is that guy thinking. The NPC ships in PVE just let you keep doing whatever you want and stay limp. Players actually do something. The power of Grav Torp does not hold sway in the realm of PVP.
Some are, my earlier starships that were bought with the original tokens were pretty maneuverable.
I do agree however they made the Dyson ships entirely too slow. My Temporal Science ship is faster and more maneuverable so why bother if you have a faster ship?
They need to fix that.
...better turn then any escort....
You crazy bro
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
¿?
Because escorts are designed to be fast and their power is focused mostly to engines and weapons. So they need great power. Its common sense.
Science ships are focused on exploration, mostly, and that doesnt mean they need to be fast. Maybe science ships should have as well great warp core potential, the problem is, you need that power to use the science skills. A science ship with low power in the auxiliary systems is nothing. And an escort without high power on weapons is nothing. Escorts are useless using science skills because they dont have power to redirect to the auxiliary systems, science ships the opposite. I think it is a really straight forward question.
Science ships are for PvP...poor in PvE because of low inherant dps...they use space magic
however most spce magic is worthless in PvE
Escorts are Pure dps and manoverability doing equally well in both PvP and PvE
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Except Sci doesn't really make anything complicated...in PvE they have little effect and in PvP things are either avoidable, easily mitigated, or dispelled by science team...which now everyone and their brother has now.
Science Ships are just given the short end of the stick over and over and over since their power was abused by tac captains and got everything nerfed. They gave Sci some buffs then they remove the shared cooldown from the team powers, which was pretty much a nerf to every single science debuff a sci can apply.
Unless of course you are using the grav torp in concert with the Bellerophon's PSW-torp console. Then it's chuckle-time.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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I kid, that sounds fun :P
If tanks and healers were truly needed for ESTFs and such you would see a greater need for science ships. They won't be needed until they add glass back into the cannon for escorts.