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Janeway & B'Elanna Re-Creation (Pics!)

dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
Howdy great peeps, me AGAIN! :cool:

Made (tried to) Kathryn Janeway & B'Elanna Torres from the series of Voyager.
Recently started watching them again, so feft like re-creating those 2 on my female character.

Janeway:
http://i.imgur.com/TI2A5bI.jpg

B'Elanna:
http://i.imgur.com/TRLBv9j.jpg

As we are all (hopefully) Star Trek fans, let me know what you think!

Much Greetings,
Duk
Post edited by dukhatt on
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Comments

  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    While these are very good, you should be aware that this is technically against the rules to make characters that are the likeness of the actors.

    i dont think too many people are going to care i would not be in too much of a hurry to post these over the forums.
  • dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    While these are very good, you should be aware that this is technically against the rules to make characters that are the likeness of the actors.

    i dont think too many people are going to care i would not be in too much of a hurry to post these over the forums.

    I did not know, thanks for letting me know.
    Ah well, I'll get a notification of Cryptic & they'll remove this post if it's THAT severe.
  • ddemlongddemlong Member Posts: 294
    edited April 2014
    dukhatt wrote: »
    I did not know
    Ah well, I'll get a notification of Cryptic & they'll remove this post if it's THAT severe :P

    They better not ban my account before notifying me if it's really that bad, spend like 400 euro's in-game last month alone :cool:

    Yeah, god forbid someone creates a character in a fictional game who resembles a fictional character of a television show. :P
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  • dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ddemlong wrote: »
    Yeah, god forbid someone creates a character in a fictional game who resembles a fictional character of a television show. :P

    Indeedy :cool:
  • schneemann83schneemann83 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    While these are very good, you should be aware that this is technically against the rules to make characters that are the likeness of the actors.
    Iirc that's just part of the Foundry-EULA.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dukhatt wrote: »
    I did not know, thanks for letting me know.
    Ah well, I'll get a notification of Cryptic & they'll remove this post if it's THAT severe.

    They better not ban my account before notifying me if it's really that bad, spend like 400 euro's in-game last month alone :cool: If I would wake up to a banned account without a request to delete the looks, I'd be very upset. VERY. I'd cry.

    No one is going to ban you for it. At most they might just ask you to change it.

    I doubt they are too bothered but red tape is red tape regardless of whether people find it silly or not.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Iirc that's just part of the Foundry-EULA.

    If it applies to the foundry then it would apply to the game as well. Kate mulgrews likeness rights are not decided by the game itself. Cryptic can't just use her image without permissions so neither can we.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Hey I gotta say those are pretty close. But here's the catch, they are not EXACTLY the same, so you can actualy get around that little issue.
    afMSv4g.jpg
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  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    While these are very good, you should be aware that this is technically against the rules to make characters that are the likeness of the actors.

    i dont think too many people are going to care i would not be in too much of a hurry to post these over the forums.

    I see the forum police are suited up again.... lol..
  • dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Hey I gotta say those are pretty close. But here's the catch, they are not EXACTLY the same, so you can actually get around that little issue.

    Nice that you find them close.
  • beerxhyperbeerxhyper Member Posts: 676 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    unless kate plays this and complains or someone sends this to CBS nothing well technaically be done and besides as one poster said looks close but not exactlly


  • adorenkoadorenko Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If it applies to the foundry then it would apply to the game as well. Kate mulgrews likeness rights are not decided by the game itself. Cryptic can't just use her image without permissions so neither can we.

    Well I would think that when these actors were hired back then they signed contracts with the studio giving up their likeness rights in these characters. I could see if they were named Kate Mulgrew and Roxann Dawson in game that there would be an issue.

    From a personal standpoint I don't see an issue here. If you are capable of making your characters look this way in this game then the creators of this game need look no further than themselves if there is a legal issue at hand.

    In addition some precautions have been taken already by the devs. You cannot name your ship enterprise nor can you name your character kirk. I have a little Ferengi named Nogg in game and I'm not worried about getting in trouble for it because I was allowed to create this character to look a certain way and spell his name this way as well.
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  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I recall, a little while ago, that someone created a fairly good recreation of Chakotay.

    Sadly, he spent most of his time loitering around Drozana, pestering female characters; his usual tactic was to approach and say "Hey *character name*, It's me - Chakotay from Voyager" and then invite them to visit his ship.... I'll leave the rest to the imagination.
    I presume that he was dealt with by the Dev's though, as haven't seen him for a long time.

    Nabreeki (from these forums) encountered him too.



    Probably - and considering the number of Seven of Nine 'look-alikes' we see running around on a daily basis......
    HEH I remember seeing that guy around. Tried to call him an undine since he was saying he was a commander when Chakotay was CLEARLY an Admiral at starfleet command (duh).
    dukhatt wrote: »
    I did not know, thanks for letting me know.
    Ah well, I'll get a notification of Cryptic & they'll remove this post if it's THAT severe.

    They better not ban my account before notifying me if it's really that bad, spend like 400 euro's in-game last month alone :cool: If I would wake up to a banned account without a request to delete the looks, I'd be very upset. VERY. I'd cry.
    beerxhyper wrote: »
    unless kate plays this and complains or someone sends this to CBS nothing well technaically be done and besides as one poster said looks close but not exactlly
    Heh the old "If no one catches you it's not a problem" argument. If you use the character likeness (as in extremely close), name yourself that character, and such then yes you can be asked to be renamed (it's happened before, and especially in champs it happened a lot). WILL it happen to you? I can't say and no you're not going to be banned for the first time.
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  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dukhatt wrote: »
    Howdy great peeps, me AGAIN! :cool:

    Made (tried to) Kathryn Janeway & B'Elanna Torres from the great series of Voyager.
    Recently started watching them again, so left like re-creating those 2 on my female character.

    Janeway:
    http://i.imgur.com/TI2A5bI.jpg

    B'Elanna:
    http://i.imgur.com/TRLBv9j.jpg

    As we are (hopefully) ST fans, let me know what you think!


    Much Greetings,
    Dukhat

    I know a few people that have a janeway, seven, balana or any other char ingame and they were never banned, but he is right there are strict rules for it that's why they blocked names in the char creation like Chakotay, Worf, Tuvok that sort of names you can not use, famous ships like Defiant, Enterprise or Voyager. Strange thing how ever you can use is Tom Paris, B'elanna Torres, Catherine Janeway, Ben Sisko. Also blocked is Kang or Quark or Rom ...

    Exactly you could ask a Dev ingame or on Twitter what is aloud and what Not but most of it is blocked that's Ilegal and if you do call your char or ship namelike and people find it desturbing they will tell you about it...
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  • dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    My attitude is, generally, post a pic or if people see a character and THEY think it resembles a canon character... well... whoops. *ahem* I must have been lucky with the "Randomize" button. Purely coincidental.

    I have developed a technique for likenesses and I use it to recreate NPCs. (For example, I have a Quinn costume in the Foundry for a mission I never published.) It involves tracing.

    And I've created saved costume profiles and screenshots of canon characters as a reference to use when talking to the character artists. But I generally frame it in terms of creating character TYPES or hairstyles I'd like added.

    I do photo reference my costumes in multiple lighting conditions. I have the Khan colors dead on (and that's harder than you'd think since he wore multiple pants and none of the statues/action figures/comics are quite right).

    By the way, a funny thing about Wells uniforms. People THINK they're black. The one from Future's End (the first version of Braxton in bright blue division colors) is. But they're actually no darker than the grey undershirts worn on Voyager. They're more red-grey than blue/green-grey but they are actually fairly light when you look at production stills where you can cross reference them.

    That's how seriously I take costumes. I also have saved files for character costumes that are about as close as you can get to Shatner and others in the editor. But I don't actively use them aside to test when the head model gets changed, etc.

    My Cardassian look started off modeled on Garak somewhat and then Dukat but I made tweaks. But even starting with an actor and then adjusting sliders, I find, gets a more lifelike look. I try to give my Foundry NPCs some body irregularity and so I'll often start with a saved file of a real person recreation and then adjust things. I find these files to be a better starting point than presets.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    No one's going to get banned, it's just that they have that little clause to cover their butts. Cryptic doesn't own the licensing rights to every Star Trek actor, and they don't want to have that kind of lawsuit. :P
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    If it applies to the foundry then it would apply to the game as well. Kate mulgrews likeness rights are not decided by the game itself. Cryptic can't just use her image without permissions so neither can we.

    Not exactly the same. Foundry folks publish content (via Cryptic). Messing around with your personal sliders, however, there's nothing in the EULA that says certain combo's are verboten.

    EULA says,

    "You agree not to post, upload to, transmit, distribute, store, create or otherwise publish through the Site any of the following:

    (c) User Content that may infringe any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual or proprietary right of any party."

    Last time I checked, you can't copyright facial looks (or have you Americans gone completely mental?!). You can't recreate an entire Star Trek personage, though, with known name and all, as those are trademarked. But as long as you don't actually call her B'elanna (you probably even can't), you're good.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Last time I checked, you can't copyright facial looks (or have you Americans gone completely mental?!). You can't recreate an entire Star Trek personage, though, with known name and all, as those are trademarked. But as long as you don't actually call her B'elanna (you probably even can't), you're good.

    We have. Its personality rights (the more common legal term) or more commonly called "likeness rights" by non-lawyers.

    These are not federally guaranteed but are a state granted right. Meaning it would be legal in some states and not others and it varies from state to state.

    In some states, the dead have no rights to their faces. In others they do. In some states, you can reuse a character with a new actor/likeness but in one state they ruled against Paramount for having animatronic characters in a Cheers-themed bar who looked nothing like the actors but did wear replicas of their costumes. (That one I find dubious since Paramount owns the costumes and assigned the actors those roles, the only aspect of their likenesses copied were maybe hair color and costure, not body type or facial features.) But the actors picked the right state to sue in.

    Because the laws vary by state, Cryptic can't draft a rule that applies in every state. In some states simply having a character in a TOS costume captaining a ship might infringe on Shatner if the court was leaning that way that day. The best thing Cryptic can do is pretty much to stand clear and say not to do it. And they're better off doing that off the record because if they do it on the record and leave a gap in the rules, there's probably liability attached to that too.

    One interesting thing in terms of Star Trek contracts I pieced together from talking to people who've been involved with the show and licensed products:

    Almost all of the contracts for performers from TNG on at least give Paramount/CBS rights to the person's face in their onscreen character. Almost.

    Except for the big six or so characters starring in each show who have better contracts, recurring performers, and celebrity guest stars who might have sweeter contracts. Those contracts still gave Paramount rights to those actors' faces but the actors can say "no". Those actors can say no for any number of reasons. Patrick Stewart has been known to say no because he hates shots of himself with hair pieces (he's fought for Picard to have been bald since he was 18, hence some discrepancies there). Patrick Stewart is also funny about his head shape. So the big actors can say no if they think a photo or drawing or character makes them look funny. Nimoy will say no if you get the prosthetic ears wrong.

    An actor with one of these nicer contracts can even say, "No, you can't use my face unless you hire me as an actor or pay me." Although some have been known to let their face slide for free and Avery Brooks and Jeri Ryan both allowed their face to be used in games on the condition that they DIDN'T want to play the characters and insisted that other actors take over the role. (Ryan later re-recorded Seven's dialogue in a patch.)

    Ensign McNobody is generally free and clear. Because of how contracts are setup for the bigger guys (which assign rights to Paramount/CBS but give the actors a right of refusal), there's a good chance CBS gets all rights upon death of an actor. (Which may be why Scotty and McCoy were the first two big characters to show up in game.)

    Klingons and non-celebrity, minor characters, meanwhile, are pretty much all under the contract without veto rights which is why the game is full of named Klingons hiding around the game.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh. And among those who have let their face be used for no fee? James Cromwell for the Enterprise Mirror episodes.

    He did that on the condition he didn't have to do any filming, so they had a body double do the new bits with the rifle and hired background extras from First Contact to help with the continuity of the scene.

    Cromwell is not a Trekkie but his late wife and stepdaughter were. As a result, his attitude is pretty much that he was happy to take the roles he did as Cochrane and on the shows in honor of his family's fandom. He's not generally eager to do much more intensive filming. But he's very, very generous with people wanting to use his face in promotional material as long as it doesn't mean extra work on his end and he's also signed off on stuff like Decipher photoshopping the statue of Zefram Cochrane or modified stills/footage of him.

    Some actors will only sign off if they get work out of it. Some are union and expensive. Some are fi-core. Ray Wise, for example, does soap operas and has been known to do weeks of acting for basically nothing if he thinks it's fun. Some actors hate looking at themselves and never sign off or have passed off the job of approvals to their agent.

    There are a fair number though who will sign off contingent on the idea that it means not having to do extra work. (Ie. no voiceover, recast, or stock audio.) I think Cryptic may have leaked recently they have a deal like that with Avery Brooks and that when State of Q gets remastered, it will probably have Sisko appear with voice clips from "Emissary" used as voiceover.
  • dukhattdukhatt Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2014
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    We have. Its personality rights (the more common legal term) or more commonly called "likeness rights" by non-lawyers.

    All your examples tie the likeness to the (movie/show) character in question. And that, indeed, one should not do. You still don't have 'personality rights' to your face itself, though, sans the connection to a trademarked character. Otherwise, anyone could sue anyone for simply looking like them. If the look-alike person makes no claims as to be a pretend-you, as it were, but merely just happens to have a face similar to yours, you have no case whatsoever.
    In some states simply having a character in a TOS costume captaining a ship might infringe on Shatner if the court was leaning that way that day.

    In STO, basically *everything* could possibly infringe on the rightholders rights to TOS and Star Trek in general, simply because everything is tied to Star Trek, one way or the other. Still, within the rights given to Cryptic (by CBS el al.), I think any Court would be hard-pressed to rule in favor of an actor/actress claiming they saw an avatar -- not pretending to be them, or wearing their show clothes -- infringing on their personality rights.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dukhatt wrote: »
    You can say that again :P

    Just to be clear my original post was not there to tell you how to play the game of to try and police anything, but to give you a heads up that by posting on the forums you might get yourself into trouble by being so public about it.

    I really dont mind what you do, but I'd rather you know now that there could be an issue than let you recreate the entire cast of Star Trek only to have to change it all later and have all your hard work go down the toilet. You can still do what you want but just be aware.
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dukhatt wrote: »
    I did not know, thanks for letting me know.
    Ah well, I'll get a notification of Cryptic & they'll remove this post if it's THAT severe.

    They better not ban my account before notifying me if it's really that bad, spend like 400 euro's in-game last month alone :cool: If I would wake up to a banned account without a request to delete the looks, I'd be very upset. VERY. I'd cry.



    Don't worry about that they aren't gonna ban you. Not with all the Tos and j.j Kirks, Picard, Spock, and Sisko, wannabes in game running around
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    astro2244 wrote: »
    Don't worry about that they aren't gonna ban you. Not with all the Tos and j.j Kirks, Picard, Spock, and Sisko, wannabes in game running around

    Or all the ships named Enterprize. :D
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  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Good job on Janeway, not bad at all.

    But.. seriously, what the hell did you do with Belanna!!!!! my loved Belanna!!! do you actually know who was Belana Torres? lol. It is not even close...:(
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Good job on Janeway, not bad at all.

    But.. seriously, what the hell did you do with Belanna!!!!! my loved Belanna!!! do you actually know who was Belana Torres? lol. It is not even close...:(

    Probably as close as you can get with STO.
    afMSv4g.jpg
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  • edgecrysgeredgecrysger Member Posts: 2,740 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Probably as close as you can get with STO.

    The problem is, as i said its not even close. You could make a totally different toon and still say it is Belanna lol.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I recall, a little while ago, that someone created a fairly good recreation of Chakotay.

    Sadly, he spent most of his time loitering around Drozana, pestering female characters; his usual tactic was to approach and say "Hey *character name*, It's me - Chakotay from Voyager" and then invite them to visit his ship.... I'll leave the rest to the imagination.
    I presume that he was dealt with by the Dev's though, as haven't seen him for a long time.

    I wonder how many actual guys he that line on.....

    It would be interesting to see a statistic showing the % of male players with female characters and % of female players with male characters.

    In RPG games that I have multiple saves, I tend to one of each gender just for the hell of it. In most cases it doesn't really matter because you play as a silent protagonist like Morrowind and Skyrim. However, in the Mass Effect trilogy I prefer playing with my FemShep character since I think Jennifer Hale's voice acting was superior to Mark Meer's voice acting especially in Mass Effect 2 and 3.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,535 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ddemlong wrote: »
    Yeah, god forbid someone creates a character in a fictional game who resembles a fictional character of a television show. :P

    its not the fictional character that cares its the actor whos image you are using that might take offence.
    more importantly its that you have highlighted the fact in the forum that has drawn attention to it.

    you could unintentionally make a character that looks like an actor and be completely unaware of it and it may never be noticed but to purposefully create a character that looks even a little bit like an actor from star trek or any other tv program or movie and then to broadcast it on the forum might put you in a sticky situation.

    what would be great though would be if you could upload a picture of your own face and have the game convert it or cartoonize it so you could use it for one of your characters.

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