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Mirror Universe feels wrong

teklionbenrashateklionbenrasha Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm playing the Cardassian series, and I've just played the MU featured event (many many times), and, I dunno, the MU feels wrong.

Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The MU, every time it appeared onscreen, was terrifying, not because it was hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a mirror of what we knew.

But other than James O'Brien, who doesn't even have a PU version, we don't see anyone or anywhere, really, that seems recognisable. Heck, the closest we come is a duty officer version of Mirror!Hakeev.

So if and when they come to revamp those episodes, what I'd love to see would be a Featured Episode, or even a series of them. Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.

Right now all we have are familiar-looking ships. Other than that, take away those rifts and what you have there could be the Prime!Klingons, or the Prime!Dominion.
Post edited by teklionbenrasha on
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Comments

  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited April 2014
    Good suggestions. If they don't ever do this, there's always room to tell these stories in the Foundry. I definitely understand the feeling you describe, something I tried to replicate in my MU Foundry mission "Over There" /shamelessselfpromotion
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I personally think that the MU is waaaay overused in STO and consider developing anything related to the MU to be a huge waste of development resources.
    The MU in ST was nothing more than an ocassional distraction when the writers needed a 'filler' or experienced writer's block, if you ask me.

    I would very much prefer to leave the topic in the capable hands of the foundry authors to make it possible for people that would like this, but I'd prefer the official content they make to be set in our own universe where there still are countless things to explore and discover in a storyline.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm playing the Cardassian series, and I've just played the MU featured event (many many times), and, I dunno, the MU feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The MU, every time it appeared onscreen, was terrifying, not because it was hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a mirror of what we knew.

    But other than James O'Brien, who doesn't even have a PU version, we don't see anyone or anywhere, really, that seems recognisable. Heck, the closest we come is a duty officer version of Mirror!Hakeev.

    So if and when they come to revamp those episodes, what I'd love to see would be a Featured Episode, or even a series of them. Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.

    Right now all we have are familiar-looking ships. Other than that, take away those rifts and what you have there could be the Prime!Klingons, or the Prime!Dominion.

    It's a video game and it has limitations. Here's an example that is an almost mirror image of what you're saying:

    I'm playing the Omega Reputation series, and I've just played the ISE STF (many many times), and, I dunno, the borg collective feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The borg, every time they appeared onscreen, were terrifying, not because they were hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a hive mind bent on total assimilation with no escape.

    But other than Into the Hive, which doesn't even have a good ROI to make it worth running a lot, we don't see the borg as much of a scary threat. Heck, the closest we come is assimilated Donatra.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm playing the Cardassian series, and I've just played the MU featured event (many many times), and, I dunno, the MU feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The MU, every time it appeared onscreen, was terrifying, not because it was hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a mirror of what we knew.

    But other than James O'Brien, who doesn't even have a PU version, we don't see anyone or anywhere, really, that seems recognisable. Heck, the closest we come is a duty officer version of Mirror!Hakeev.

    So if and when they come to revamp those episodes, what I'd love to see would be a Featured Episode, or even a series of them. Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.

    Right now all we have are familiar-looking ships. Other than that, take away those rifts and what you have there could be the Prime!Klingons, or the Prime!Dominion.

    TBH the Mirror episodes of TOS and ENT were real "Mirror" episodes.
    The DS9 versions were more like "a different universe", but not really a "mirror" IMO.

    Still I know what you mean and I agree...
    It's a video game and it has limitations. Here's an example that is an almost mirror image of what you're saying:

    I'm playing the Omega Reputation series, and I've just played the ISE STF (many many times), and, I dunno, the borg collective feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The borg, every time they appeared onscreen, were terrifying, not because they were hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a hive mind bent on total assimilation with no escape.

    But other than Into the Hive, which doesn't even have a good ROI to make it worth running a lot, we don't see the borg as much of a scary threat. Heck, the closest we come is assimilated Donatra.

    Well about the MU, with a little "tricking" a "real" mirror mission could be done.
    Adding an enemy using your own "skin", your BOs "Skins" and maybe a similar ship should not be that hard (take that mission with the ENT C, for example, there we meet our BOs as complete stranger-NPCs, including wearing different clothes) , this way we could essentially "battle ourself".
    It can be done.

    But while I don't agree with Sphoks view on the MU general, he is right about it being massively overused. There shouldn't be more then one or 2 story episodes involving the MU, it at all. Especially since the STO MU plot is more then just stupid...

    On the Borg.... those are not Borg. Not at all.
    Voyager essentially performed character genozide on the Borg but even they didn't lower the menace the Borg should be as far as STO does.
    They COULD be fixed to some degree, and how, that has been suggested about 1000 times since... this game is around.
    But cryptic doesnt want to.
    Which is funny if you think about it: A t5 connie would violate canon, but a 300 years old D'kyr beating a Tactical Borg cube alone... yeah that works just fine...
  • odstparker#7820 odstparker Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I really want to see a dedicated Mirror Universe featured episode series! I want to go into the MU more than anything else in this game.

    Something I've always wanted to be included in STO, ever since I saw that the Mirror Universe would play a role in the game, is the ability to somehow see yourself, your ship, and your crew in the Mirror Universe. We've already had a similar scenario in the episode featuring the Enterprise C, so going to an alternate timeline shouldn't be an issue.

    It would be just like the Mirror Universe episodes in Enterprise, where we go into the shoes of our alternate self, commanding our ship and crew in the Mirror Universe.

    Yellow paint, alien rebellions, and agony chambers everywhere!
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    enoemg wrote: »
    I really want to see a dedicated Mirror Universe featured episode series!

    A fun idea. I'd be up for a featured series focused on that.
    I want to go into the MU more than anything else in this game.

    You do go into it in one of the levelling story arcs. You don't meet yourself, but you do go into the mirror U.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    A fun idea. I'd be up for a featured series focused on that.



    You do go into it in one of the levelling story arcs. You don't meet yourself, but you do go into the mirror U.

    True, but i do think the mirror universe deserves its own season, or possibly its own weekend.


    Actually MU weekends sound cool.


    A bunch of queued events getting mirror universe versions.

    For instance, instead of defending the base in a fleet alert, we are attacking it.........that sort of thing.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Before, when the game came out we did not have any established characters and the stories were rather thrown together. lots of the main actors would be too expensive or already used and no one knew much about the new ones.

    now we can use d'tan, obisek, cooper, taris, shon, quinn etc and i think we would have a much better story with characters we know already so we can enjoy their respective counterparts.
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    True, but i do think the mirror universe deserves its own season, or possibly its own weekend.


    Actually MU weekends sound cool.


    A bunch of queued events getting mirror universe versions.

    For instance, instead of defending the base in a fleet alert, we are attacking it.........that sort of thing.

    How about a special event?

    We could get a mission where something happens like... a station that is attacked by the Terran Empire.. they sent their ships through rifts and we have to protect the station and, buff their weapons and close those rifts.
    And we could do that mission about 3 weeks or so every day with every character to get a special reward...
    That would be fun, wouldnt it? :rolleyes:
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    How about a special event?

    We could get a mission where something happens like... a station that is attacked by the Terran Empire.. they sent their ships through rifts and we have to protect the station and, buff their weapons and close those rifts.
    And we could do that mission about 3 weeks or so every day with every character to get a special reward...
    That would be fun, wouldnt it? :rolleyes:

    Better idea would be for us to be the ones keeping the rifts open and attacking the station.



    And i don't object to grinds, provided two conditions are met.

    Firstly, put a bit of thought into it. The recent MI had some good ideas, although the execution was not perfect. The grindaversary miniQ game was lazy and comtemptible.

    Secondly, pace them better. Grind after grind, without respite, does not either encourage people to spend money or come back to the game.


    However, I'd actually be quite happy with a grind where we get to be our MU counterparts.





    ETA oooh, and that was my 2000th post.

    I clearly need to get out more.
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    For me, the Mirror Universe feels not less complete than some other factions.

    I don't get the distinctive Tholian xenophobia. For all I feel next to them, they could be Jem'Hadar.
    I don't get the mysterious feeling around the Breen. For all I feel next to them, they could be hhelmed Jem'Hadar.
    Borg already said.

    As for meeting your mirror version. What if I told you I am already playing as him? My first (and third after deleting and recreating him from scratch) KDF is Mirror Rahm Kota. And he is not an exact opposite of prime Rahm Kota. He has had a different life, fighting different enemies, making choices that led him to the KDF. A little more action-orientated and less patient with others. But deep down, they both have similar personalities.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.
    Better yet, mirror versions of our own captains, BOFFs, and ships. THAT would be what would make me love the mirror universe.

    To be fair, it would be kinda hard to get an actual 'mirror' personality of our characters. The way I see it set up is, we pre-select a personality for our mirror captains that best fits what the mirror version of their personality would be. They would be a boss, and their BOFFs could be their mooks. The queue would be set up like CO's nemesis queues.
  • erraberrab Member Posts: 1,434 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm playing the Cardassian series, and I've just played the MU featured event (many many times), and, I dunno, the MU feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The MU, every time it appeared onscreen, was terrifying, not because it was hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a mirror of what we knew.

    But other than James O'Brien, who doesn't even have a PU version, we don't see anyone or anywhere, really, that seems recognisable. Heck, the closest we come is a duty officer version of Mirror!Hakeev.

    So if and when they come to revamp those episodes, what I'd love to see would be a Featured Episode, or even a series of them. Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.

    Right now all we have are familiar-looking ships. Other than that, take away those rifts and what you have there could be the Prime!Klingons, or the Prime!Dominion.

    Agreed

    I would like very much so to encounter Mirror Quinn, Former Regent Worf (since they can work with Dorn now) Kurland, Sulu, D'Tan, S'stas, Alexander, Ja'Rod and the many other NPCs that we interact with in STO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    I actually have a few outfits for my Feds that make them into Mirror versions. Give my main the seductive stance, different hairstyle, alter the uniform... and a scar... and BOOM! Mirror Rattler! Complete with Evil Twin title! :D
    Actually made a pretty decent Mirror Sierra 1 uniform with the Terran Empire patch and belt from the Enterprise Mirror uniform.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • nakedcrooknakedcrook Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm playing the Cardassian series, and I've just played the MU featured event (many many times), and, I dunno, the MU feels wrong.

    Rather, it doesn't feel at all. The MU, every time it appeared onscreen, was terrifying, not because it was hostile and expansionist per se, but because it was just that: a mirror of what we knew.

    But other than James O'Brien, who doesn't even have a PU version, we don't see anyone or anywhere, really, that seems recognisable. Heck, the closest we come is a duty officer version of Mirror!Hakeev.

    So if and when they come to revamp those episodes, what I'd love to see would be a Featured Episode, or even a series of them. Give us characters we can relate to! What is the Mirror!Shon like? Show us the ISS Enterprise; or the Mirror!D'tan. Give us a mirror that we can see what we know in.

    Right now all we have are familiar-looking ships. Other than that, take away those rifts and what you have there could be the Prime!Klingons, or the Prime!Dominion.

    I agree. The Mirror needs to be cleaned.

    I wanna see the entire mirror though. I wanna see Mirror Klingons, Mirror Terrans, Mirror Romulans. I wanna know what the Mirror Borg looks like. That has a ton of potential.

    However...leave the ISS Stadi in the game. That ship is cool.

    http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/archive/e/e9/20121219031213!ISS_Stadi_%28NCC-170147%29.jpg

    Also...whatever happened to this design?

    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120707220212/startrek/images/7/79/ISS_Saber_purple.jpg

    That was a wicked design.
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  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    I agree. The Mirror needs to be cleaned.

    I wanna see the entire mirror though. I wanna see Mirror Klingons, Mirror Terrans, Mirror Romulans. I wanna know what the Mirror Borg looks like. That has a ton of potential.

    The difference between our Borg and the Mirror Borg is that Mirror Borg have goatees and wear black turtlenecks and pants, much like.... http://www.wiretotheear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Dieters-Dance-Party.jpg :D
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    There should be a Featured Episode series where you play as your Mirror Self. They are kind and peaceful and talk out their problems whenever possible.

    Then with the next Mirror Event the Boss gets a pop up window using your charrie's face. (S)He has come to stop your evil ways.
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    I agree. The Mirror needs to be cleaned.

    I wanna see the entire mirror though. I wanna see Mirror Klingons, Mirror Terrans, Mirror Romulans. I wanna know what the Mirror Borg looks like. That has a ton of potential.

    However...leave the ISS Stadi in the game. That ship is cool.

    http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/archive/e/e9/20121219031213!ISS_Stadi_%28NCC-170147%29.jpg

    Also...whatever happened to this design?

    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120707220212/startrek/images/7/79/ISS_Saber_purple.jpg

    That was a wicked design.

    Dunno how often this has been done before, but I'm ever so slowly working on a foundry mission for the KDF that involves mirror klingons.

    Not happening soon though as this requires me to learn how to use the foundry...lol
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,454 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    enoemg wrote: »
    It would be just like the Mirror Universe episodes in Enterprise, where we go into the shoes of our alternate self, commanding our ship and crew in the Mirror Universe.

    Yellow paint, alien rebellions, and agony chambers everywhere!
    Hey, sounds like my ship!



    ...What? Just because it isn't on the decks you CAN visit doesn't mean it isn't there.

    Seriously, though. If I run around in a MU uniform, what should I expect to see my MU counterpart wearing if they do this?
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bergins wrote: »
    Hey, sounds like my ship!



    ...What? Just because it isn't on the decks you CAN visit doesn't mean it isn't there.

    Seriously, though. If I run around in a MU uniform, what should I expect to see my MU counterpart wearing if they do this?

    A skant, obviously.

    You'd look at their skant askance.
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,454 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    A skant, obviously.

    You'd look at their skant askance.

    *Shudder*

    There's some "lower decks" that should just stay off limits.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bergins wrote: »
    Seriously, though. If I run around in a MU uniform, what should I expect to see my MU counterpart wearing if they do this?

    That's my question, at least for my main...

    Joined Trill, symbiont part is from Prime Universe, Host is from Mirror, cause he was around when the prime host was "killed" and he tried to jack the symbiont (as he won't get one of his own from the mirror Trill Committee...)
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    dareau wrote: »
    That's my question, at least for my main...

    Joined Trill, symbiont part is from Prime Universe, Host is from Mirror, cause he was around when the prime host was "killed" and he tried to jack the symbiont (as he won't get one of his own from the mirror Trill Committee...)
    My sort-of-incompatible mirror situation comes from my Trill characters as well. I have a KDF Trill and a Fed Trill... their symbiotes are parallels of each other(Fed is the mirror)... and their hosts are of a different sex.
  • gonzothegreat78gonzothegreat78 Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    you guys make my brain hurt - drinks another beer

    seriously though i think its pretty cool that this community knows so much about star trek i find it pretty amazing.

    as someone who's always been a huge fan of star trek, it make me feel pretty dumb that every thread i open is based on some story/lore i don't even remember.

    kids don't do drugs..
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited April 2014

    kids don't do drugs..



    But what if your role-model is Captain America? :confused:
  • bradchristopher1bradchristopher1 Member Posts: 307
    edited April 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    There should be a Featured Episode series where you play as your Mirror Self. They are kind and peaceful and talk out their problems whenever possible.

    Then with the next Mirror Event the Boss gets a pop up window using your charrie's face. (S)He has come to stop your evil ways.


    And what if the NPC AI of your MU toon is a better player with the same setup on their ship than you are on yours? Would there be cries to Nerf the MU OP, I wonder?

    :P
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    And what if the NPC AI of your MU toon is a better player with the same setup on their ship than you are on yours? Would there be cries to Nerf the MU OP, I wonder?

    :P



    They don't have to be better to win those cries.

    :P
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Personally I'd love to meet the mirror of my First main toon(and yes I made one toon Me personally). Love to meet the mirror universe of my character.

    I did like the mirror of Ezri Dax. HOT!
    afMSv4g.jpg
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To be honest, so far as STO's 'Mirror Universe' goes, I personally prefer to think of it as a different branch off than the one we saw on TV. And even then, my own suspension of disbelief stuggles with the idea that the Terrans, after being slaves themselves for so long would make the same stupid mistakes as both their oppressors AND their Terran Empire predessors. Smiley O'Brien stated several times in the DS9 epidoes that the Terran rebelion was "fighting for their freedom - their very lives".

    Then again, I am no big fan of the whole 'mirror' concept as a whole. It's lazy writing. So far as the TV were concerned, the mirror episodes were only entertaining due to the default use of being in an alternate universe where nothing matters, allowing the writers to do things they won't do for real on the show.

    To quote First TV Drama's review of the grossly overrated 'In a Mirror Dorkly' (no, not a typo on my part):


    The rest of the review is here: http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/e94.php3

    Anyway - as I said, no fan of the mirror universe idea, and I much prefer the direction that books took with it; namely that the Terrans finally managed to LEARN something from the mistakes that the Terran Empire made, and their time as slaves, and formed a 'Coaliton of Planets' - much better than maintaining the idea that if you're in an evil alternate universe, you lack common sense and the ability to reason - it therefore stands to reason that, in the STO universe, they remained stupid and followed the idiot who killed their leader and said 'I'm Emperor now'!
    Rubbish.

    Didn't ya get the memo. Water, fault lines, and writers always follow the path of least resistance. Meaning they will always take the lazy easy way out.
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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Didn't ya get the memo. Water, fault lines, and writers always follow the path of least resistance. Meaning they will always take the lazy easy way out.

    You, not ya. You also missed the question mark at the end of that line.


    Very lazy, eh?
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