I just hit 50 and have a few bucks buring a hole in my pocket and I am looking for a nice, neat little (or big) ship to be my main grinder for the next few months while I say up for some of the more unique ships I want. Currently I have a 50 Rom Tac and a 40 Fed Eng and one of those will be my main.
Now I am new so I need a ship that is fairly easy to use and understand, plus I won't have any fancy console sets or modules for a while so figure I will be starting off with Blue Mk X gear for the most part. Also I don't like super slow turning ships such as my Ha'apax Advanced or the previous D'deridex but feel my Mirror Dhelan Refit is too fragile. Also I can sort of tolerate my Fed cruisers but only because they have Strategic Manuvering available for the +3 to turn.
Would like to spend under $25.
Here are my thoughts so far for Rom:
Scimitar or one of the other Dreadnought models. Only issue I see here is that it really looks like the set is needed for the consoles especially if your a newbie which doubles the budget. Using the set however gives it a 9 turn, plus it just seems like it can kind of do anything and probably would be decent even undergeared like I will be starting out. The big question is can you just buy a single or do you need the set and will I be able to tolerate a 7 turn ship if I buy a single ? Also which one would be best for a newbie?
Mogai Retrofit + Valdore. Now I have read that the console on the Valdore is almost a must have no matter what ship. However is it really that good? Also it seems like the Mogai is more beefy/tanky than most Escorts but offers also offers good manuverability. Some people describe it as more of a destroyer. Question here is how newbie friendly this set up would be and is it worth investing $35.
Ar'kif Tactical Escort Carrier + Valdore. Well Valdore for the console because again I have heard it is just that good. the Ar'kif because it just looks interesting. Still I am afraid it will be too fragile for me because as I mention, I have a Mirror Dhelan and it just seems to explode at random hehe. Opinions?
Dyson Tactical Destroyer - Ok don't really know anything about this ship. Honestly doesn't look newbie friendly at all but still looks interesting enough to ask for input on.
As far as possible Fed options:
Avenger Battlecruiser - Ok this seems to be a good fit in regards to the middle ground type ship I kinda want. It seems to have above average mobility with 9 turn (12 with Strategic Manuvering enabled), decent shield and hull + good firepower. On the other hand, it seems kind of dull and I am not sure how good it would be for a newbie using Blue Mk X gear.
Assault Cruiser Refit - This one seems like it would be safe all around bet with good tactical DPS and good tank. It is a little slow on the turn but with strategic manuvering giving it a 10 turn, it isn't horrible. Also the wide angle torp launcher will make up a bit for the slow turn.
Anyway this is what I have been thinking about but like I said, I am new so I am open to suggestions as well as your thoughts about my ideas. Ideal budget is $25 but I will spend the $35-$50 if someone really convinces me.
Ar'kif Tactical Escort Carrier + Valdore ( Yes it is really good and well worth it + will make you more survivable)
Quite maneuverable, can be quite tanky with valdore and some other consoles, armor, skills etc. plus the hangar bay that adds that extra little bit of fun.
You can go for the scimitar but if you did i would go for the set, getting just one and you will regret it like i did
As you said, the Avenger seems on paper like what you want, but to me is also abit dull after a while.
Also get that extra damage from Roms, using Rom operative BOFFs for extra Crit chance
Scimitar is a flying gamebreaker, boring as hell to fly but undeniably lethal. A looooot of people go for the 3-pack though, so they can use the tactical frame with the consoles off the eng and sci models. It does take some money to turn it into a genuine monster though, so if you're still worrying about equipment grade (instead of just defaulting to 12-purple or Fleet), not quite there yet.
Valdore + Mogai would be my vote. The Valdore console really is that good (probably the #2 console in the game), and equipping it would mean you're already halfway to a set bonus that gives you extra drain control, and the other half of that set is a nice little bonus weapon anyways. Its not quite as quick as the Ar'kif and lacks the hangar, but more durable, better BOFF layout (IMO), better looking (its canon!), and you'll have a much easier time getting a Fleet upgrade when the time comes.
As for your Fed characters, it comes down to how much aesthetics matter. As a directly-offensive weapon, the Avenger has more fore weaponry and better maneuverability, but gives up a cruiser command, does the same damage in broadsiding, and is ugly as sin. The Regent comes with the excellent wide-angle torpedo and can use the classic Enterprise-E skin, but its a hint slower and won't have quite as nasty an initial attack, and is harder to get a Fleet version of (T4 shipyard for Avenger vs T5 for Regent). Both are very good ships and very very close in playstyle though, so it really is the little things that make the difference. Personally I'd go with the Regent for the torp and to play as a classic Federation cruiser; when I want a battlecruiser, the Klingons do it better so why go halfway?
One thing about the Scimitar being game breaking is that it does so using a specialized build that requires some semi-pricey Doffs and a whole lot of endgame reputation and fleet gear. You don't just ding 50, jump into a Scim, and start laying down 40k DPS.
Of the available choices, the Ar'kif will be the easiest to understand and get good damage out of it. It won't require understanding or implementing specialized (Aux2Batt) builds, or stocking it with high end gear. It can run a fairly standard escort setup, making up for a slight lack of tactical seating with the hangar bay. The Dhelan is worth a look as well, if you stick a Tac in the universal Lt. its bridge layout winds up identical to the Prometheus, which is an escort with access to Grav Well 1.
One thing about the Scimitar being game breaking is that it does so using a specialized build that requires some semi-pricey Doffs and a whole lot of endgame reputation and fleet gear. You don't just ding 50, jump into a Scim, and start laying down 40k DPS.
Of the available choices, the Ar'kif will be the easiest to understand and get good damage out of it. It won't require understanding or implementing specialized (Aux2Batt) builds, or stocking it with high end gear. It can run a fairly standard escort setup, making up for a slight lack of tactical seating with the hangar bay. The Dhelan is worth a look as well, if you stick a Tac in the universal Lt. its bridge layout winds up identical to the Prometheus, which is an escort with access to Grav Well 1.
One thing I want to make clear, I am not looking for or expecting a game breaking ship at ding on 50 because I do realize it is going to take alot of time to get the gear for a good build. Also at some point I want to specialize in the Elachi ships (after I save up the 180+ million to buy them/equip them) so the goal with this ship is just something I can have fun with out of the box, learn on and generally tweak over time into something I will at least pull out now and again for the fun of it.
The appeal of the Scimitar or perhaps one of the other dread variants (kind of like the Falchion to be honest) is that at least on paper they appear to be very powerful and versital right out the gate but still require a learning curve to actually be good with. They just seem offer alot in one package but at a hefty price.
Anyway I am still deciding. The one thing I did fully decide on is that I am going to buy a Valdore for the console and throw it on my Mirror Dhelan while I am deciding. From what everyone keeps saying, that will be $10 well spend no matter what my final Romulan choice ends up. Then I guess depending on how well it performs on my Mirror Dhelan, it may very well sway me toward the Mogai for the full set bonus or perhaps the Ar'kif. Honestly the Mogai is my favorite looking ship in Star Trek so that is a plus
Guess I have a question on the Mogai and/or the Ar'kif. How good are they end game? Can they hang or will people look at them an groan whenever I show up with one for a mission?
Guess I have a question on the Mogai and/or the Ar'kif. How good are they end game? Can they hang or will people look at them an groan whenever I show up with one for a mission?
These days, you can do any STF with your eyes closed. Buy the tier 3 Valdore and use it in an STF, no one will know the difference.
If you go with fleet versions those are two of the best ships in the game. I have a fleet Ar'kif and it's pretty solid, though it pretty much causes you to run one boff layout.
I made a new toon, KDF alligned Rom Tac captain flying a fleet T'varo. I am in love with this ship.
Honestly I hate the Scimi ... If you gear it up it's just plain boring to fly after a couple of runs.
Plus it has a hit box the size of ESD, it gets stuck on everything in game, like when trying to maneuver outside Sol System or Qo'noS it's a PITA, and you can only zoom out in combat so far, and the thing fills half your screen ... It's slow and cumbersome without Fleet RCS consoles, and it is just THE ugliest ship in STO (IMO)
The Fleet Mogai is, IMHO, one of the best all round ships in game, even without the Valdore Console, it's still tanky as hell, and can kick some butt, however most important it's just a really fun ship to fly. With some Neut Consoles (or better yet Fleet Neut + [Turn] Consoles, it has great survivability, plus it has one of the best BoFF and Console layout's for all round gameplay (bit lacking in Sci Debuff capability though)
BTW it looks totally sleek and hawt in the Jem-H Visuals, (if you like pink/purple) and also looks great in the Reman Space Visuals.
One thing I want to make clear, I am not looking for or expecting a game breaking ship at ding on 50 because I do realize it is going to take alot of time to get the gear for a good build. ... so the goal with this ship is just something I can have fun with out of the box, learn on and generally tweak over time into something I will at least pull out now and again for the fun of it.
Honestly - don't buy anything now but item slots atm.
The Lvl40 ships will provide exactly what you're looking for, and you can alwas buy some mirror universe version from the exchange for little EC, if you want to try out another type of vessel (cruiser, escort, sciship etc.).
You can do the whole** endgame content just fine with these ships, green [Acc] weapons and some green/blue Doffs. And while you're doing it, you not only can try out different builds and tactics, but you'll gather quite some ressources - without grinding for the grindings' sake.
Last but not least - join a good fleet. Having someone who can help you with builds and hints and all is always nice. And you'll get access to really good gear after some time
**this does not include that broken hive mission ...
There is no Q in Star Trek!... really wish he wheren't, but at least that annoying *** got punched in the face finally ... There is no healing magic in Star Trek!... most times, at least. There is no Trinity in Star Trek! ... so why do you insist?
Scimitar or one of the other Dreadnought models. Only issue I see here is that it really looks like the set is needed for the consoles especially if your a newbie which doubles the budget
No real need for those consoles. They're ok if you want your ship to behave a bit different and get a few abilities it had in the movie, but they're not great and not necessary.
You'll be able to get better performance out of other universal or conventional consoles.
Is the separation console worthy , or the guardian part only acts as a healer and never attack?
It's not great, but usable. The damage from the pet/guardian is negligble, but you'll at least get a decent turn-rate (close to a normal assault warbird) out of it. On the other hand it's costing you one of your 9 console slots and if you tend to blow up regularely, you can't use it 100% of the time.
One thing I want to make clear, I am not looking for or expecting a game breaking ship at ding on 50 because I do realize it is going to take alot of time to get the gear for a good build. Also at some point I want to specialize in the Elachi ships (after I save up the 180+ million to buy them/equip them) so the goal with this ship is just something I can have fun with out of the box, learn on and generally tweak over time into something I will at least pull out now and again for the fun of it.
The appeal of the Scimitar or perhaps one of the other dread variants (kind of like the Falchion to be honest) is that at least on paper they appear to be very powerful and versital right out the gate but still require a learning curve to actually be good with. They just seem offer alot in one package but at a hefty price.
Anyway I am still deciding. The one thing I did fully decide on is that I am going to buy a Valdore for the console and throw it on my Mirror Dhelan while I am deciding. From what everyone keeps saying, that will be $10 well spend no matter what my final Romulan choice ends up. Then I guess depending on how well it performs on my Mirror Dhelan, it may very well sway me toward the Mogai for the full set bonus or perhaps the Ar'kif. Honestly the Mogai is my favorite looking ship in Star Trek so that is a plus
Guess I have a question on the Mogai and/or the Ar'kif. How good are they end game? Can they hang or will people look at them an groan whenever I show up with one for a mission?
Just to give you some facts about the Scimitar that a lot of people are leaving out, it doesn't need an expensive build on it to put out 40k, just to have fun with it. I have two characters with it, and each character has 3 different builds with theirs. Two of each character's builds are A2b builds, but not with the expensive DOFFs. I only use the green ones, and that is all I need, because I don't have any PVP builds.
What I like about them is that I can put any weapons, and almost any console setups I already have on them. There are just a few differences in their consoles and station, than most escorts and cruisers.
As far as piloting them, they will take a little bit of time to adjust when to drop out of full impulse, however that just means that you drop out a little sooner because of the inertia. They have a slow turn rate and speed like a lot of cruisers and science ships.
With that said, to say that they are expensive to get 40k DSL out of them is correct. However, I have had mine since December, and still haven't tried to push that much DPS out of it because it is required. I am working on that for one of my ships, but just to have something to work on so I don't get bored while waiting on season 9 to launch.
The Scimitar is a good ship to play with, and can be setup as an escort build, or cruiser. You can go with cannons, dual beam banks, or beam arrays. There are so many options.
There are some that have problems flying them because of their size, however there are some that have problems flying escorts also. That doesn't mean that everyone will. I actually use it's size to my advantage a lot in STFs, and PVE. For example, in the Cure, I can park it in front of the ships heading for the Khang, and it will slow them down while I am shooting them. Or, in others, I will run full impulse while cloaked, drop out just before getting to the enemy, pop a weapons battery, and uncloak while flying over their head shooting them with AOE attacks.
If you are willing to take the time to learn to fly it, it will be the same as when switching to any class for the first time. And for the rep gear, I don't use it on any of my Scimitar. I have one with the Solanae set from the featured episode, and the other has 2pieces from it, and 2of the J'Hem set from the episodes. One does have fleet beam arrays, but the others are just MK XI rare.
Unless I am in a STF with a ship that is setup for extremely high DPS, I usually have the highest, and that is with a cheap build. I am not saying that you need to get the Scimi, I am only clearing up some facts about it. Getting the bundle is the best option, but not needed. The tactical Scimitar is the best option.
Now for your Federation character, I like the Kumari. They are small, agile, and can do a lot of DPS without needing a lot of expensive gear. Again, getting the bundle is best, but not needed. Going with the tactical is better.
If you are okay with a larger ship than the Kumari, but still want good DPS, I suggest the Avenger. It is similar to the Scimitar in that you can do a cannon, or beam build. It will have a lot more survivability than the Kumari, and a slight more than the Scimitar. Yet, it will mean you are going to loose the maneuverability of the Kumari.
Those are my three C-Store favorites. If you are okay with waiting till later, I suggest getting the Mirror Ha'Fah. It is fun to play with, and can be setup with cannon, or beam builds.
For gear, I suggest sticking with the free Solanae gear from the featured episode. I am using it till I take the time to reach Tier 5 in all the rep systems after season 9 comes out. Then I will compare the new T5 gear to see if I like any better than the free gear.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
Just to provide a shameless link to a thread of my own that might help with some decent starting gear and what is available just by playing the game (especially DOffs and some equipment might come in handy):
Honestly you'd get more groans in yet another Scimitar than any other Romulan ship. Even the 'weaker' Romulan ships are still some of the best around yet don't simply negate the endgame content. The game simply wasn't designed to handle more than about 8k dps, and beyond that is just ego stoking and making the missions utterly pointless. Better to pick out something fun and enjoy the ride, rather than skip straight to the 'i'm bored, everything is too easy' whines.
I just hit 50 and have a few bucks buring a hole in my pocket and I am looking for a nice, neat little (or big) ship to be my main grinder for the next few months while I say up for some of the more unique ships I want. Currently I have a 50 Rom Tac and a 40 Fed Eng and one of those will be my main.
I can't really help you out on the Romulan end... but Fedside, the most fun my Engineer has had has been in an Armitage.
Being an Escort it can use DHCs and can sit at 125 Weapons power quite comfortably even without a Plasmonic Leech console, and the Engineering Captain powers make up for its squishiness until you can get it kitted out... The BOFF setup is quite comfortable; especially if you run with a Torpedo Launcher. I even had one set up with Tricobalt Mines at one point. It gets better with an Aux2Bat build (EPTS1/Aux2Bat1/Aux2SIF2 or EPTW1/Aux2Bat1/EPTS3) once you can afford a few Purple Technician DOFFs, but should be perfectly fine with just the basics. Having a Hangar Bay gives you a number of options for additional survivability (Repair Drones) or DPS (Scorpions) or Control (Shuttles).
By the same token (Simple to get started in but Trickier to Master; Dual Cannons; High Turn Rate, Decent DPS and a Hangar bay) the Vesta Recon might be another decent option.
Tactical Captains have a lot higher spike DPS than Engineers; so they can get away with using ships which have lower native damage output and more utility - my Tac's personal favourite for all-round fun and mayhem is a Tholian Orb Weaver (Lockbox-only, sadly, but a heck of a lot of fun when fully loaded up!)
The plasmonic leech console is not needed anymore unless you playing a rommie and you want even more weapons power.. o.O. Its really easy for an engineer / tactical from the fed or klingon side to have weapon power over 70-80 and other systems most of the time. I have 6 tacticals, and in 4 of em, my ship has always more than 70-75 usable power in all systems except auxiliary, of course (that i have it on 30 or something like that lol). 125 is really great, but honestly.. with 70-80 weapon power you already have a lot of output damage going. And i think more than 100 is useless.
Yeah, the Plasmonic Leech is a goose console, but is not worth more than 1,000,000 EC tops. Even playing as a Rommie you don't need it. With the right skills in your skill tree, it will only benefit you till your singularity core gets fully charged. Then you will not see a difference, even running 100 weapons power all the time.
I always make sure I have at least a total of 125 weapons power before the singularity core is fully charged, and on both the other factions. I like to make sure I am putting out as much power to my energy weapons since they are always firing, but my science skills are only firing when off of cool down.
When using my Federation and Klink, it is easier to set your power levels, because they don't need the cores to charge to reach 200 base power. They start with it.
I haven't used the Armitage, but have heard some good things about it, (pretty much what maelwy5 was saying about it). It does seem like a good ship to use if you don't like to fly big ships. And I have seen them put out decent DPS too.
If you want to do the Hive Onslaught, any level 40 or higher ships can do it, even on elite. However, you will need a good team to get together for it. You may not get the optional, but you will be able to beat it. The hardest part is the 2 Unimatrix ships (A.K.A The Tampons). They are still bugged, and can lance you while cloaked, moving at full impulse, and even while right against the queen. However, as side from that, it can be done. As to whether or not the time it takes to beat it is worth the rewards, no, it isn't. Even with the optional, it is not worth the time. It is just for those that like a challenge, that is all.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
The plasmonic leech console is not needed anymore unless you playing a rommie and yo have even more weapons power.. o.O. Its really easy for an engineer / tactical from the fed or klingon side to have weapon power over 70-80 and other systems most of the time. I have 6 tacticals, and in 4 of em, my ship has always more than 70-75 usable power in all systems except auxiliary, of course (that i have it on 30 or something like that lol). 125 is really great, but honestly.. with 70-80 weapon power you already have a lot of output damage going. And i think more than 100 is useless.
It's certainly not "needed"... but anyone not sitting at 125 weapons power is giving up a fair bit of DPS unless you're running a Torpedo Boat or an Aux-Cannon Vesta. There is a heck of a lot of difference between sitting at 150% damage (75 Weapons Power) and 250% damage (125 Power).
And it actually goes even further than that - the Devs have clarified how Weapons power over 125 is meant to work (it's treated as a "buffer" and 125 is used in the damage calculation). Every time you fire more than one energy weapon at a time; a portion of your Weapons power is reserved - meaning that the next weapon to fire will do so using a lower modifier unless your weapons power is overcapped.
It actually makes sense to try and grab as much Weapons power as physically possible whenever you're running multiple energy weapons.
If you're talking about the [AMP] bonuses on the Elite Warp Cores, then you can still run 125 weapons and have >75 in each of the other systems (Leech actually helps tremendously here...)
Roms have an easier time of this. The DD is slow, but it can be used by any class reasonably well; you have at least a ltcmdr of each type of officer in a durable ship with decent tactical ability and decent durability. (actually the durability is far more than decent). The haakona advanced is poorish at science but solid for eng and tac. An 8 weapon escort with the universal guy as tactical is very good, and assembled it is tough. The scimitar is a one trick pony -- it does lots of dps --- and any captain can drive one and get a lot from it, but it can't do much besides shoot things. You can half-tank in it with top gear because top gear, most any ship can take a beating and the scim has decent hull/shields. You can't really set it up to heal or support.
The recluse is solid for any captain type, though not ultimate for tactical, if spending EC appeals to you instead of zen. There are a couple of other very flexible lockbox/lobi/EC ships that have universal ltcmdr seats and solid configurations good for a variety of builds.
For feds.... most of the ships are at best good for 2 things. Which usually boils down to sci/eng and tac/eng. The dyson is tac/sci. But there really is no jack of all fed ship.
For all 3 factions, the veteran (and fleet upgrade) destroyers are very solid jack of all ships. Sporting a ltcmdr uni, 4/3 weapons, decent hull/shield/turn, its closer to a dps boat but you could shoehorn it into a tank or support role.
The only cmdr sci ships that are flexible are going to be uni-cmdr ships like the recluse. I think there are 2 or 3 total ships here & the BOP family which you can't use.
Roms have an easier time of this. The DD is slow, but it can be used by any class reasonably well; you have at least a ltcmdr of each type of officer in a durable ship with decent tactical ability and decent durability. (actually the durability is far more than decent). The haakona advanced is poorish at science but solid for eng and tac. An 8 weapon escort with the universal guy as tactical is very good, and assembled it is tough. The scimitar is a one trick pony -- it does lots of dps --- and any captain can drive one and get a lot from it, but it can't do much besides shoot things. You can half-tank in it with top gear because top gear, most any ship can take a beating and the scim has decent hull/shields. You can't really set it up to heal or support.
The recluse is solid for any captain type, though not ultimate for tactical, if spending EC appeals to you instead of zen. There are a couple of other very flexible lockbox/lobi/EC ships that have universal ltcmdr seats and solid configurations good for a variety of builds.
For feds.... most of the ships are at best good for 2 things. Which usually boils down to sci/eng and tac/eng. The dyson is tac/sci. But there really is no jack of all fed ship.
For all 3 factions, the veteran (and fleet upgrade) destroyers are very solid jack of all ships. Sporting a ltcmdr uni, 4/3 weapons, decent hull/shield/turn, its closer to a dps boat but you could shoehorn it into a tank or support role.
The only cmdr sci ships that are flexible are going to be uni-cmdr ships like the recluse. I think there are 2 or 3 total ships here & the BOP family which you can't use.
Well it appears we are starting to get into builds and such which is not quite the scope of where I was going when I created this thread.
Also honestly I would love to go straight to a lockbox/lobi ship and am in fact particularly interested in the Elachi ships good, bad or otherwise, however, as a new level 50, I am a long way from having the 180+ million credits to get both Elachi ships and outfit them with Elachi weapons like I want to. Since I only have about 6 million EC between all my characters, I have to go Zen Ship if I want something in the near future.
I just want something fun and relatively newbie friendly that I can build out and upgrade over time into a ship that I will still likely want to break out and play now and again months down the road even after I get the "cool" ships. Scimitar came to mind because of the sheer diversity of options even if it is "Currently" face roll. I say currently because we do have season 9 coming out after all and we all know how we often have power creep in new content hehe.
Still I am not sold on the Scimitar for many of the same reasons I have been advised against it is this thread. It's size, popularity frequency and generally being slow are all turn offs to me, not to mention I really do feel like I would need the set at $50 and I kinda don't want to spend that much on what is really one ship. This is why I am open to suggestions.
Also I think I do actually want my Romulan Tactical to be my main character or at least I am leaning that way.
This has been kind of hard to judge for me but how much do you really think I will notice going from a 7 to 9 turn speed? I know during the "First Contact" event, due to my skill selection, I got the Tulwar maintaining a 13.7 turn rate which was acceptably quick especially since I know I could probably get at least 2 more turn rate with upgraded engines and consoles. Do you all really think I would notice the difference between 11.7 and 13.7 turn or even 13.7 and 15.7 turn with the upgrades?
The reason I ask is that with at least two of the special consoles, the Scimitar gets a +2 bonus to turn. Turn is kind of important to me so this small little thing is what has me mostly hung up on whether to buy the 3 ship set or not.
As far as the consoles in general they mostly seem gimicky to a degree so let me ask how useful they are.
The second shield seems like a nice "Oh Cra---p" button earning a 17k shield but it seems like with the proper Boff skill set up, you would be able to get enough tank without it in most cases, especially since you could fit a resist, repair or whatever console in its place.
The cloaked barrage seems hughly gimicky. Yeah you can use it to set up a zero risk 15 second damage run but you don't appear to get cloak bonus damage if you do use it so it seems like you would be just as well off without it as with using standard cloak tactics.
The shield while cloaked I have to admit seems like a nice feature as you can cloak at will but lets be honest at least for me, by the time I am ready to cloak and get out of dodge, my shield are already depleted and my hull is not in a good place. I mean if I have shields, I would usually rather stand and fight and actually DPS rather than dodge to cloak where aside from using cloaked barrage, I am not firing. Again kind of gimicky.
Then there is the 3 piece set bonus, the Thalaron Cannon. 12 seconds of sitting still, being completely vulnerable just to hopefully catch a few enemy in your front 90 degree arc well honestly that seems the most gimicky of all.
I mean sure, they all can be useful at least situationally but none of it seems outstanding. Am I missing something something important here?
That goes on to one last question? Would I be shooting myself in the foot or wasting money going with a Tulwar or Falchion instead of the Scimitar? I mean on paper it looks like I would get one of the what I think are the two most useful consoles, then I could loaded it up with a Plasmatic leech and a Shield absorptive Frequency Generator plus go for a more Science or Engineering flavor for either a more control or tanky build. Do you think this feasible to come up with a more unique, flavorful and versatile build other than Raw DPS that in its own way would be competitive but different?
Honestly I ask but a RAW dps build Scimitar does seem like it would get boring after a point. Then again maybe this is another reason to buy all three because I could then experiment with different options.
Anyway going to make a decision soon. Leaning toward a Vandal, Valdore and perhaps just one of the Dreadnought variants rather than the 3 pack at the moment. Seems like it might be the best bang of the buck since the consoles from the Vandal and Valdore are so useful in and of themselves and I if I understand correctly, I could Run the Vandal on my lowbie Klingon since I am Klingon Aligned on my Rom character.
Yes, the turn rate makes a huge difference on a ship that has a small turn rate to start with.. If you ever get to see someone with two of the consoles on their Scimitar, ask them to show you the difference. It is more noticeable with cannon builds though, than a beam build.
If you are flying something like an escort, or raider, then the turn rate is still going to show, but just might not be needed if it has speed. Your forward movement can increase your turn rate. To see this, go into a system like Sol, Qo'Nos, or New Romulus. Get your UI up, and look at your ship movement.
Look at the turn rate while you are not in full impulse by turning. Then go into full impulse and look at it while turning. The faster you move forward, the faster you can turn. That is what hurts the turn rate of the Scimitar. If they moved faster, their turn rate wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem for most.
(Had to edit this post, because I accidentally hit the send button while moving my tablet)
The Cloaked Barrage console is not the best one. It will only keep the NPCs from hitting you while others are hitting them. If you are the only one hitting the enemy, then they can see you while you are cloaked, and hit you. It is best not to even use it.
The console that lets you cloak with shields is worth it. You can cloak and move away if you are taking a beating, and still have shields. After the cloak is fully activated, and you are far enough away from the enemy (with NPCs, it is about 3-6km), you cannot be targeted by them. Another advantage is that if you don't have shields while cloaked, you can get a direct hull strike as you are coming out of cloak, before your shields activate. In that very small amount of time, it is possible to get hit.
The secondary shields are also great! I have been able to tank a Heavy Plasma Torpedoe from a tactical cube in all 4 of the STFs on elite with it, full shields, and full hull. The only time it will not work is when I get a 30,000+ crit hit from it directly to my hull. Using the tactical Scimitar, I can do a lot of tanking (without expensive gear, all free). The secondary shield helps me tank even more. It will absorb about 11,000+ DPS.
The biggest difference you will find in the three Scimitar is the consoles, and console slots. The other small differences in going from science to engineering, to tactical are not enough to really matter much. The amount of added tanking I can get from the engineering or science one is insignificant.
I always recommend the bundle, however I know that you have mentioned that the price is high now. I agree, but they are worth it. I have so many options with just the two consoles alone. And the thaleron pulse is okay, but is not really worth it. To maximize it's effects, you need to max out your Aux power, or pop an Aux battery. Even then, you cannot move, fire, or activate heals when you are waiting on it to charge up.
Also, while it is charging, you will agro everything in it's firing arc almost all the time, even if others are shooting it. If you are targeting enemies that move as fast as your ships you start playing the game with, then they can move out of it's arc. After firing it, there is a 3min cool down. When all is said and done, you did about the same amount of DPS that is possible with just MK XII rare weapons to the enemy. Not the best option.
About the DPS, a LOT of people say that the Scimitar is a "one trick pony" because they have trouble tanking with it. It does have the worse bleed through, however it can tank really good without fleet gear, or rep gear. As an engineering character, you can increase the tanking ability. What has happened is that when most found out how much DPS you can get from it, they stopped trying to figure out what combination will work for tanking. It has only been said to be a one trick pony, so that is why people only play it like that.
I do have one build that I am setting up as a high DPS build, but it is only because I just wanted to for the fun of it. Before then, I spent about 5 and a half months with the same weapons and gear I used on my escorts. I just had one extra console, and weapon slot. I would also get bored with the game if I killed everything as soon as I targeted it. That is why I am not doing an OP build on both of them.
As I have mentioned in another post in this thread, if money is an issue, then I suggest looking at one of the other C-Store ships, which sounds like you have a few ideas there. Then, if you are interested in the Scimitar, save up for the bundle later down the road. Like all Romulan C-Store ships, you can use them on any other Romulans you start up later, no matter which faction they are with.
I hope that whichever decision you make, you do enjoy it.
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Yes, the turn rate makes a huge difference on a ship that has a small turn rate to start with.. If you ever get to see someone with two of the consoles on their Scimitar, ask them to show you the difference. It is more noticeable with cannon builds though, than a beam build.
If you are flying something like an escort, or raider, then the turn rate is still going to show, but just might not be needed if it has speed. Your forward movement can increase your turn rate. To see this, go into a system like Sol, Qo'Nos, or New Romulus. Get your UI up, and look at your ship movement.
Look at the turn rate while you are not in full impulse by turning. Then go into full impulse and look at it while turning. The faster you move forward, the faster you can turn. That is what hurts the turn rate of the Scimitar. If they moved faster, their turn rate wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem for most.
(Had to edit this post, because I accidentally hit the send button while moving my tablet)
The Cloaked Barrage console is not the best one. It will only keep the NPCs from hitting you while others are hitting them. If you are the only one hitting the enemy, then they can see you while you are cloaked, and hit you. It is best not to even use it.
The console that lets you cloak with shields is worth it. You can cloak and move away if you are taking a beating, and still have shields. After the cloak is fully activated, and you are far enough away from the enemy (with NPCs, it is about 3-6km), you cannot be targeted by them. Another advantage is that if you don't have shields while cloaked, you can get a direct hull strike as you are coming out of cloak, before your shields activate. In that very small amount of time, it is possible to get hit.
The secondary shields are also great! I have been able to tank a Heavy Plasma Torpedoe from a tactical cube in all 4 of the STFs on elite with it, full shields, and full hull. The only time it will not work is when I get a 30,000+ crit hit from it directly to my hull. Using the tactical Scimitar, I can do a lot of tanking (without expensive gear, all free). The secondary shield helps me tank even more. It will absorb about 11,000+ DPS.
The biggest difference you will find in the three Scimitar is the consoles, and console slots. The other small differences in going from science to engineering, to tactical are not enough to really matter much. The amount of added tanking I can get from the engineering or science one is insignificant.
I always recommend the bundle, however I know that you have mentioned that the price is high now. I agree, but they are worth it. I have so many options with just the two consoles alone. And the thaleron pulse is okay, but is not really worth it. To maximize it's effects, you need to max out your Aux power, or pop an Aux battery. Even then, you cannot move, fire, or activate heals when you are waiting on it to charge up.
Also, while it is charging, you will agro everything in it's firing arc almost all the time, even if others are shooting it. If you are targeting enemies that move as fast as your ships you start playing the game with, then they can move out of it's arc. After firing it, there is a 3min cool down. When all is said and done, you did about the same amount of DPS that is possible with just MK XII rare weapons to the enemy. Not the best option.
About the DPS, a LOT of people say that the Scimitar is a "one trick pony" because they have trouble tanking with it. It does have the worse bleed through, however it can tank really good without fleet gear, or rep gear. As an engineering character, you can increase the tanking ability. What has happened is that when most found out how much DPS you can get from it, they stopped trying to figure out what combination will work for tanking. It has only been said to be a one trick pony, so that is why people only play it like that.
I do have one build that I am setting up as a high DPS build, but it is only because I just wanted to for the fun of it. Before then, I spent about 5 and a half months with the same weapons and gear I used on my escorts. I just had one extra console, and weapon slot. I would also get bored with the game if I killed everything as soon as I targeted it. That is why I am not doing an OP build on both of them.
As I have mentioned in another post in this thread, if money is an issue, then I suggest looking at one of the other C-Store ships, which sounds like you have a few ideas there. Then, if you are interested in the Scimitar, save up for the bundle later down the road. Like all Romulan C-Store ships, you can use them on any other Romulans you start up later, no matter which faction they are with.
I hope that whichever decision you make, you do enjoy it.
Money isn't strictly that much of an issue but bang for the buck is especially when I am considering also picking up a Valdore and Vandal for the consoles.
I guess this is my current issue. I really do not like the the Ha'apax Advances both from a looks standpoint and because I just can't stand the 5 turn rate. Even with a RCS and skills I can only get like I think 9.7 turn out of it. On the other hand I have a Mirror Dhelan that I somewhat enjoy but feel it is too fragile at the moment for general use.
Now what I want out of a ship is one that is newbie gear friendly but still can kick butt and make the initial grind a bit more fun and bareable. Now while I really don't like turn rates under 10, I find that once I hit around 14 (buffed with gear and skills) I am perfectly find with the ship. The Scimitar wasn't even on my radar until the "First Contact" event this weekend but when I got to fly it, I was like, "hey wow this ship is really manuverable considering its size!!!" which got me seriously thinking about one. Then of course I find that to get that great turn rate, I have to spend $50 and get two additional ships I really don't need or want because well, I would rather spend the other $25 on something like a Vandal and Valdore hehe.
I guess this is what I hate the most about free-to-play games. I went from committed to spending $25 on a game I am having alot of fun with to spending $70 on a Scimitar bundle, Valdore and Vandal...ouch.
Instead of getting a C-Store ship now, have you checked out the Mirror Ha'Fah yet? It may give you a something to play around with, and it may give you a better idea of which ship you might want. It might be like a cross between some of them, and has a little better survivability than the Dhelan if set up right.
I should have a few more of them, and will be willing to give you one (no charge), if you would like to try it out. Aside from the Scimitar, and Breen Raider, it is one of my favorites. I had one on each of my Rommie.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
Well it appears we are starting to get into builds and such which is not quite the scope of where I was going when I created this thread.
All I listed were ships, not builds. I was trying to offer up as many as possible, is all.
It boils down to looking for ships with 2 features: a ltcmdr (or cmdr) universal bridge officer slot, and 3 of each type of console. IMHO cmdr tac and cmdr engineering are "nice but not critical". But a science captain often wants a cmdr sci slot, and not having it is worth noting as most of the "flexible" ships only sport a ltcmdr sci slot.
Again, for roms, the DD and haakona can do everything except cmdr science. Both are a little slow. The scimitar has the flexible universal officer but the ship is not friendly for new players (my opinion).
Feds, oddessy family looks like a winner and is about all I can think of to suggest.
I don't *know* if non-vets can buy the fleet veteran destroyer or not (???). If so, this is THE most flexible ship you can get for feds, and its solid for a romulan as well.
Do non-Subscribers/ non-Veterans get the retrofit token? If so, look for one of the ships available there if you want to jump off to a lockbox ship eventually. Mirror ships are also a good idea to test out. A decent Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral ship will serve you well and doesn't cost as much.
Unfortunately, IMO most of the Romulan ships are ugly. The only good seem to be the Mogai and the Ar'Kif, and maybe the Dhaelon. I suppose some like the D'Deridex (if only because it TNG and canon) or the Scimitar, but man, the other ships.... I am really surprised they were all made by the same team.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Honestly my vote is the Ak'rif. Best blend of escort damage plus you get pets which helps with the damage. Good turn rate, good firepower, good consoles.
Avenger may not be much to look at, but she's got it where it counts, FIREPOWER.
Also have the regent, IMHO probably one of the best cruisers you can find, and the 180 deg torp allows you to have more more weapon for broadsiding which is nice.
Just depends on your flavor.
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About turn rates, yes every bit is noticeable for slow ships. If you look at pure math, a 180 at 1 deg/sec takes 180 seconds (3 min!). 2 takes half that, 90 seconds. 3 takes 60. So the lower your turn the more noticeable it will be, where as 30 vs 31 the difference is just a little over 1/10 a second for the full 180...
Turning to face the opposite direction is 180 degrees. At 10 degrees per second, that is 18 seconds. This is a long, long, long time in a fight. 7 deg/sec takes 25 seconds, 9 takes 20, and so on. Typical combat maneuvers are 1/2 that, at 90 degrees, but you are still taking in the neighborhood of 10 seconds to do THAT in a fight, which is still a long time. 30 degrees per second can do a 90 in 3 seconds and a 180 in 6. Anything under 20 is going to seem rather slow when chasing a fast target or trying to bear on something that is behind you, it just IS.
Romulan ships gain a lot of turn rate when cloaked, and for warp-in waves of enemy (think: starbase fleet defense) roms can use cloak to face the newcomers easily, and get a dps decloak advantage for doing so. Evasive lets you do the occasional whip-it turn in combat. Active officers to reduce evasive time helps. You will never be able to fly the cows like an escort, but in PVE you can always have your front weapons on the enemy with a little practice. I drive a carrier that is slower than the scimitar, and I keep dual beam banks on target with little to no "let me get pointed at it" downtime; and it can't even do the cloaking trick. Attack pattern omega also gives some turn boost, and there are other ways to get more turn as well.
Bottom line is that you can build around the turn issue, it should not be a problem once you learn to fly it and tweak it just a little bit. Driving them is very different if you are used to responsive craft, but with practice, it is rarely a problem in PVE.
Comments
Ar'kif Tactical Escort Carrier + Valdore ( Yes it is really good and well worth it + will make you more survivable)
Quite maneuverable, can be quite tanky with valdore and some other consoles, armor, skills etc. plus the hangar bay that adds that extra little bit of fun.
You can go for the scimitar but if you did i would go for the set, getting just one and you will regret it like i did
As you said, the Avenger seems on paper like what you want, but to me is also abit dull after a while.
Also get that extra damage from Roms, using Rom operative BOFFs for extra Crit chance
Valdore + Mogai would be my vote. The Valdore console really is that good (probably the #2 console in the game), and equipping it would mean you're already halfway to a set bonus that gives you extra drain control, and the other half of that set is a nice little bonus weapon anyways. Its not quite as quick as the Ar'kif and lacks the hangar, but more durable, better BOFF layout (IMO), better looking (its canon!), and you'll have a much easier time getting a Fleet upgrade when the time comes.
As for your Fed characters, it comes down to how much aesthetics matter. As a directly-offensive weapon, the Avenger has more fore weaponry and better maneuverability, but gives up a cruiser command, does the same damage in broadsiding, and is ugly as sin. The Regent comes with the excellent wide-angle torpedo and can use the classic Enterprise-E skin, but its a hint slower and won't have quite as nasty an initial attack, and is harder to get a Fleet version of (T4 shipyard for Avenger vs T5 for Regent). Both are very good ships and very very close in playstyle though, so it really is the little things that make the difference. Personally I'd go with the Regent for the torp and to play as a classic Federation cruiser; when I want a battlecruiser, the Klingons do it better so why go halfway?
Is the separation console worthy , or the guardian part only acts as a healer and never attack?
Of the available choices, the Ar'kif will be the easiest to understand and get good damage out of it. It won't require understanding or implementing specialized (Aux2Batt) builds, or stocking it with high end gear. It can run a fairly standard escort setup, making up for a slight lack of tactical seating with the hangar bay. The Dhelan is worth a look as well, if you stick a Tac in the universal Lt. its bridge layout winds up identical to the Prometheus, which is an escort with access to Grav Well 1.
One thing I want to make clear, I am not looking for or expecting a game breaking ship at ding on 50 because I do realize it is going to take alot of time to get the gear for a good build. Also at some point I want to specialize in the Elachi ships (after I save up the 180+ million to buy them/equip them) so the goal with this ship is just something I can have fun with out of the box, learn on and generally tweak over time into something I will at least pull out now and again for the fun of it.
The appeal of the Scimitar or perhaps one of the other dread variants (kind of like the Falchion to be honest) is that at least on paper they appear to be very powerful and versital right out the gate but still require a learning curve to actually be good with. They just seem offer alot in one package but at a hefty price.
Anyway I am still deciding. The one thing I did fully decide on is that I am going to buy a Valdore for the console and throw it on my Mirror Dhelan while I am deciding. From what everyone keeps saying, that will be $10 well spend no matter what my final Romulan choice ends up. Then I guess depending on how well it performs on my Mirror Dhelan, it may very well sway me toward the Mogai for the full set bonus or perhaps the Ar'kif. Honestly the Mogai is my favorite looking ship in Star Trek so that is a plus
Guess I have a question on the Mogai and/or the Ar'kif. How good are they end game? Can they hang or will people look at them an groan whenever I show up with one for a mission?
These days, you can do any STF with your eyes closed. Buy the tier 3 Valdore and use it in an STF, no one will know the difference.
If you go with fleet versions those are two of the best ships in the game. I have a fleet Ar'kif and it's pretty solid, though it pretty much causes you to run one boff layout.
I made a new toon, KDF alligned Rom Tac captain flying a fleet T'varo. I am in love with this ship.
Plus it has a hit box the size of ESD, it gets stuck on everything in game, like when trying to maneuver outside Sol System or Qo'noS it's a PITA, and you can only zoom out in combat so far, and the thing fills half your screen ... It's slow and cumbersome without Fleet RCS consoles, and it is just THE ugliest ship in STO (IMO)
The Fleet Mogai is, IMHO, one of the best all round ships in game, even without the Valdore Console, it's still tanky as hell, and can kick some butt, however most important it's just a really fun ship to fly. With some Neut Consoles (or better yet Fleet Neut + [Turn] Consoles, it has great survivability, plus it has one of the best BoFF and Console layout's for all round gameplay (bit lacking in Sci Debuff capability though)
BTW it looks totally sleek and hawt in the Jem-H Visuals, (if you like pink/purple) and also looks great in the Reman Space Visuals.
The Lvl40 ships will provide exactly what you're looking for, and you can alwas buy some mirror universe version from the exchange for little EC, if you want to try out another type of vessel (cruiser, escort, sciship etc.).
You can do the whole** endgame content just fine with these ships, green [Acc] weapons and some green/blue Doffs. And while you're doing it, you not only can try out different builds and tactics, but you'll gather quite some ressources - without grinding for the grindings' sake.
Last but not least - join a good fleet. Having someone who can help you with builds and hints and all is always nice. And you'll get access to really good gear after some time
**this does not include that broken hive mission ...
There is no healing magic in Star Trek! ... most times, at least.
There is no Trinity in Star Trek! ... so why do you insist?
No real need for those consoles. They're ok if you want your ship to behave a bit different and get a few abilities it had in the movie, but they're not great and not necessary.
You'll be able to get better performance out of other universal or conventional consoles.
It's not great, but usable. The damage from the pet/guardian is negligble, but you'll at least get a decent turn-rate (close to a normal assault warbird) out of it. On the other hand it's costing you one of your 9 console slots and if you tend to blow up regularely, you can't use it 100% of the time.
Just to give you some facts about the Scimitar that a lot of people are leaving out, it doesn't need an expensive build on it to put out 40k, just to have fun with it. I have two characters with it, and each character has 3 different builds with theirs. Two of each character's builds are A2b builds, but not with the expensive DOFFs. I only use the green ones, and that is all I need, because I don't have any PVP builds.
What I like about them is that I can put any weapons, and almost any console setups I already have on them. There are just a few differences in their consoles and station, than most escorts and cruisers.
As far as piloting them, they will take a little bit of time to adjust when to drop out of full impulse, however that just means that you drop out a little sooner because of the inertia. They have a slow turn rate and speed like a lot of cruisers and science ships.
With that said, to say that they are expensive to get 40k DSL out of them is correct. However, I have had mine since December, and still haven't tried to push that much DPS out of it because it is required. I am working on that for one of my ships, but just to have something to work on so I don't get bored while waiting on season 9 to launch.
The Scimitar is a good ship to play with, and can be setup as an escort build, or cruiser. You can go with cannons, dual beam banks, or beam arrays. There are so many options.
There are some that have problems flying them because of their size, however there are some that have problems flying escorts also. That doesn't mean that everyone will. I actually use it's size to my advantage a lot in STFs, and PVE. For example, in the Cure, I can park it in front of the ships heading for the Khang, and it will slow them down while I am shooting them. Or, in others, I will run full impulse while cloaked, drop out just before getting to the enemy, pop a weapons battery, and uncloak while flying over their head shooting them with AOE attacks.
If you are willing to take the time to learn to fly it, it will be the same as when switching to any class for the first time. And for the rep gear, I don't use it on any of my Scimitar. I have one with the Solanae set from the featured episode, and the other has 2pieces from it, and 2of the J'Hem set from the episodes. One does have fleet beam arrays, but the others are just MK XI rare.
Unless I am in a STF with a ship that is setup for extremely high DPS, I usually have the highest, and that is with a cheap build. I am not saying that you need to get the Scimi, I am only clearing up some facts about it. Getting the bundle is the best option, but not needed. The tactical Scimitar is the best option.
Now for your Federation character, I like the Kumari. They are small, agile, and can do a lot of DPS without needing a lot of expensive gear. Again, getting the bundle is best, but not needed. Going with the tactical is better.
If you are okay with a larger ship than the Kumari, but still want good DPS, I suggest the Avenger. It is similar to the Scimitar in that you can do a cannon, or beam build. It will have a lot more survivability than the Kumari, and a slight more than the Scimitar. Yet, it will mean you are going to loose the maneuverability of the Kumari.
Those are my three C-Store favorites. If you are okay with waiting till later, I suggest getting the Mirror Ha'Fah. It is fun to play with, and can be setup with cannon, or beam builds.
For gear, I suggest sticking with the free Solanae gear from the featured episode. I am using it till I take the time to reach Tier 5 in all the rep systems after season 9 comes out. Then I will compare the new T5 gear to see if I like any better than the free gear.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=998011
Taskforce 47 Falkenwacht (Federation) / Greifenreiter (KDF)
(at) deianirrah
Free Gear and where to get it
I can't really help you out on the Romulan end... but Fedside, the most fun my Engineer has had has been in an Armitage.
Being an Escort it can use DHCs and can sit at 125 Weapons power quite comfortably even without a Plasmonic Leech console, and the Engineering Captain powers make up for its squishiness until you can get it kitted out... The BOFF setup is quite comfortable; especially if you run with a Torpedo Launcher. I even had one set up with Tricobalt Mines at one point. It gets better with an Aux2Bat build (EPTS1/Aux2Bat1/Aux2SIF2 or EPTW1/Aux2Bat1/EPTS3) once you can afford a few Purple Technician DOFFs, but should be perfectly fine with just the basics. Having a Hangar Bay gives you a number of options for additional survivability (Repair Drones) or DPS (Scorpions) or Control (Shuttles).
By the same token (Simple to get started in but Trickier to Master; Dual Cannons; High Turn Rate, Decent DPS and a Hangar bay) the Vesta Recon might be another decent option.
Tactical Captains have a lot higher spike DPS than Engineers; so they can get away with using ships which have lower native damage output and more utility - my Tac's personal favourite for all-round fun and mayhem is a Tholian Orb Weaver (Lockbox-only, sadly, but a heck of a lot of fun when fully loaded up!)
I always make sure I have at least a total of 125 weapons power before the singularity core is fully charged, and on both the other factions. I like to make sure I am putting out as much power to my energy weapons since they are always firing, but my science skills are only firing when off of cool down.
When using my Federation and Klink, it is easier to set your power levels, because they don't need the cores to charge to reach 200 base power. They start with it.
I haven't used the Armitage, but have heard some good things about it, (pretty much what maelwy5 was saying about it). It does seem like a good ship to use if you don't like to fly big ships. And I have seen them put out decent DPS too.
If you want to do the Hive Onslaught, any level 40 or higher ships can do it, even on elite. However, you will need a good team to get together for it. You may not get the optional, but you will be able to beat it. The hardest part is the 2 Unimatrix ships (A.K.A The Tampons). They are still bugged, and can lance you while cloaked, moving at full impulse, and even while right against the queen. However, as side from that, it can be done. As to whether or not the time it takes to beat it is worth the rewards, no, it isn't. Even with the optional, it is not worth the time. It is just for those that like a challenge, that is all.
It's certainly not "needed"... but anyone not sitting at 125 weapons power is giving up a fair bit of DPS unless you're running a Torpedo Boat or an Aux-Cannon Vesta. There is a heck of a lot of difference between sitting at 150% damage (75 Weapons Power) and 250% damage (125 Power).
And it actually goes even further than that - the Devs have clarified how Weapons power over 125 is meant to work (it's treated as a "buffer" and 125 is used in the damage calculation). Every time you fire more than one energy weapon at a time; a portion of your Weapons power is reserved - meaning that the next weapon to fire will do so using a lower modifier unless your weapons power is overcapped.
It actually makes sense to try and grab as much Weapons power as physically possible whenever you're running multiple energy weapons.
If you're talking about the [AMP] bonuses on the Elite Warp Cores, then you can still run 125 weapons and have >75 in each of the other systems (Leech actually helps tremendously here...)
The recluse is solid for any captain type, though not ultimate for tactical, if spending EC appeals to you instead of zen. There are a couple of other very flexible lockbox/lobi/EC ships that have universal ltcmdr seats and solid configurations good for a variety of builds.
For feds.... most of the ships are at best good for 2 things. Which usually boils down to sci/eng and tac/eng. The dyson is tac/sci. But there really is no jack of all fed ship.
For all 3 factions, the veteran (and fleet upgrade) destroyers are very solid jack of all ships. Sporting a ltcmdr uni, 4/3 weapons, decent hull/shield/turn, its closer to a dps boat but you could shoehorn it into a tank or support role.
The only cmdr sci ships that are flexible are going to be uni-cmdr ships like the recluse. I think there are 2 or 3 total ships here & the BOP family which you can't use.
Well it appears we are starting to get into builds and such which is not quite the scope of where I was going when I created this thread.
Also honestly I would love to go straight to a lockbox/lobi ship and am in fact particularly interested in the Elachi ships good, bad or otherwise, however, as a new level 50, I am a long way from having the 180+ million credits to get both Elachi ships and outfit them with Elachi weapons like I want to. Since I only have about 6 million EC between all my characters, I have to go Zen Ship if I want something in the near future.
I just want something fun and relatively newbie friendly that I can build out and upgrade over time into a ship that I will still likely want to break out and play now and again months down the road even after I get the "cool" ships. Scimitar came to mind because of the sheer diversity of options even if it is "Currently" face roll. I say currently because we do have season 9 coming out after all and we all know how we often have power creep in new content hehe.
Still I am not sold on the Scimitar for many of the same reasons I have been advised against it is this thread. It's size, popularity frequency and generally being slow are all turn offs to me, not to mention I really do feel like I would need the set at $50 and I kinda don't want to spend that much on what is really one ship. This is why I am open to suggestions.
Also I think I do actually want my Romulan Tactical to be my main character or at least I am leaning that way.
Wells time (FULL set) though is a close runner up.. Massive control and major cheese..
Affordability wise = Scimitar hands down.
This has been kind of hard to judge for me but how much do you really think I will notice going from a 7 to 9 turn speed? I know during the "First Contact" event, due to my skill selection, I got the Tulwar maintaining a 13.7 turn rate which was acceptably quick especially since I know I could probably get at least 2 more turn rate with upgraded engines and consoles. Do you all really think I would notice the difference between 11.7 and 13.7 turn or even 13.7 and 15.7 turn with the upgrades?
The reason I ask is that with at least two of the special consoles, the Scimitar gets a +2 bonus to turn. Turn is kind of important to me so this small little thing is what has me mostly hung up on whether to buy the 3 ship set or not.
As far as the consoles in general they mostly seem gimicky to a degree so let me ask how useful they are.
The second shield seems like a nice "Oh Cra---p" button earning a 17k shield but it seems like with the proper Boff skill set up, you would be able to get enough tank without it in most cases, especially since you could fit a resist, repair or whatever console in its place.
The cloaked barrage seems hughly gimicky. Yeah you can use it to set up a zero risk 15 second damage run but you don't appear to get cloak bonus damage if you do use it so it seems like you would be just as well off without it as with using standard cloak tactics.
The shield while cloaked I have to admit seems like a nice feature as you can cloak at will but lets be honest at least for me, by the time I am ready to cloak and get out of dodge, my shield are already depleted and my hull is not in a good place. I mean if I have shields, I would usually rather stand and fight and actually DPS rather than dodge to cloak where aside from using cloaked barrage, I am not firing. Again kind of gimicky.
Then there is the 3 piece set bonus, the Thalaron Cannon. 12 seconds of sitting still, being completely vulnerable just to hopefully catch a few enemy in your front 90 degree arc well honestly that seems the most gimicky of all.
I mean sure, they all can be useful at least situationally but none of it seems outstanding. Am I missing something something important here?
That goes on to one last question? Would I be shooting myself in the foot or wasting money going with a Tulwar or Falchion instead of the Scimitar? I mean on paper it looks like I would get one of the what I think are the two most useful consoles, then I could loaded it up with a Plasmatic leech and a Shield absorptive Frequency Generator plus go for a more Science or Engineering flavor for either a more control or tanky build. Do you think this feasible to come up with a more unique, flavorful and versatile build other than Raw DPS that in its own way would be competitive but different?
Honestly I ask but a RAW dps build Scimitar does seem like it would get boring after a point. Then again maybe this is another reason to buy all three because I could then experiment with different options.
Anyway going to make a decision soon. Leaning toward a Vandal, Valdore and perhaps just one of the Dreadnought variants rather than the 3 pack at the moment. Seems like it might be the best bang of the buck since the consoles from the Vandal and Valdore are so useful in and of themselves and I if I understand correctly, I could Run the Vandal on my lowbie Klingon since I am Klingon Aligned on my Rom character.
If you are flying something like an escort, or raider, then the turn rate is still going to show, but just might not be needed if it has speed. Your forward movement can increase your turn rate. To see this, go into a system like Sol, Qo'Nos, or New Romulus. Get your UI up, and look at your ship movement.
Look at the turn rate while you are not in full impulse by turning. Then go into full impulse and look at it while turning. The faster you move forward, the faster you can turn. That is what hurts the turn rate of the Scimitar. If they moved faster, their turn rate wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem for most.
(Had to edit this post, because I accidentally hit the send button while moving my tablet)
The Cloaked Barrage console is not the best one. It will only keep the NPCs from hitting you while others are hitting them. If you are the only one hitting the enemy, then they can see you while you are cloaked, and hit you. It is best not to even use it.
The console that lets you cloak with shields is worth it. You can cloak and move away if you are taking a beating, and still have shields. After the cloak is fully activated, and you are far enough away from the enemy (with NPCs, it is about 3-6km), you cannot be targeted by them. Another advantage is that if you don't have shields while cloaked, you can get a direct hull strike as you are coming out of cloak, before your shields activate. In that very small amount of time, it is possible to get hit.
The secondary shields are also great! I have been able to tank a Heavy Plasma Torpedoe from a tactical cube in all 4 of the STFs on elite with it, full shields, and full hull. The only time it will not work is when I get a 30,000+ crit hit from it directly to my hull. Using the tactical Scimitar, I can do a lot of tanking (without expensive gear, all free). The secondary shield helps me tank even more. It will absorb about 11,000+ DPS.
The biggest difference you will find in the three Scimitar is the consoles, and console slots. The other small differences in going from science to engineering, to tactical are not enough to really matter much. The amount of added tanking I can get from the engineering or science one is insignificant.
I always recommend the bundle, however I know that you have mentioned that the price is high now. I agree, but they are worth it. I have so many options with just the two consoles alone. And the thaleron pulse is okay, but is not really worth it. To maximize it's effects, you need to max out your Aux power, or pop an Aux battery. Even then, you cannot move, fire, or activate heals when you are waiting on it to charge up.
Also, while it is charging, you will agro everything in it's firing arc almost all the time, even if others are shooting it. If you are targeting enemies that move as fast as your ships you start playing the game with, then they can move out of it's arc. After firing it, there is a 3min cool down. When all is said and done, you did about the same amount of DPS that is possible with just MK XII rare weapons to the enemy. Not the best option.
About the DPS, a LOT of people say that the Scimitar is a "one trick pony" because they have trouble tanking with it. It does have the worse bleed through, however it can tank really good without fleet gear, or rep gear. As an engineering character, you can increase the tanking ability. What has happened is that when most found out how much DPS you can get from it, they stopped trying to figure out what combination will work for tanking. It has only been said to be a one trick pony, so that is why people only play it like that.
I do have one build that I am setting up as a high DPS build, but it is only because I just wanted to for the fun of it. Before then, I spent about 5 and a half months with the same weapons and gear I used on my escorts. I just had one extra console, and weapon slot. I would also get bored with the game if I killed everything as soon as I targeted it. That is why I am not doing an OP build on both of them.
As I have mentioned in another post in this thread, if money is an issue, then I suggest looking at one of the other C-Store ships, which sounds like you have a few ideas there. Then, if you are interested in the Scimitar, save up for the bundle later down the road. Like all Romulan C-Store ships, you can use them on any other Romulans you start up later, no matter which faction they are with.
I hope that whichever decision you make, you do enjoy it.
Money isn't strictly that much of an issue but bang for the buck is especially when I am considering also picking up a Valdore and Vandal for the consoles.
I guess this is my current issue. I really do not like the the Ha'apax Advances both from a looks standpoint and because I just can't stand the 5 turn rate. Even with a RCS and skills I can only get like I think 9.7 turn out of it. On the other hand I have a Mirror Dhelan that I somewhat enjoy but feel it is too fragile at the moment for general use.
Now what I want out of a ship is one that is newbie gear friendly but still can kick butt and make the initial grind a bit more fun and bareable. Now while I really don't like turn rates under 10, I find that once I hit around 14 (buffed with gear and skills) I am perfectly find with the ship. The Scimitar wasn't even on my radar until the "First Contact" event this weekend but when I got to fly it, I was like, "hey wow this ship is really manuverable considering its size!!!" which got me seriously thinking about one. Then of course I find that to get that great turn rate, I have to spend $50 and get two additional ships I really don't need or want because well, I would rather spend the other $25 on something like a Vandal and Valdore hehe.
I guess this is what I hate the most about free-to-play games. I went from committed to spending $25 on a game I am having alot of fun with to spending $70 on a Scimitar bundle, Valdore and Vandal...ouch.
I should have a few more of them, and will be willing to give you one (no charge), if you would like to try it out. Aside from the Scimitar, and Breen Raider, it is one of my favorites. I had one on each of my Rommie.
All I listed were ships, not builds. I was trying to offer up as many as possible, is all.
It boils down to looking for ships with 2 features: a ltcmdr (or cmdr) universal bridge officer slot, and 3 of each type of console. IMHO cmdr tac and cmdr engineering are "nice but not critical". But a science captain often wants a cmdr sci slot, and not having it is worth noting as most of the "flexible" ships only sport a ltcmdr sci slot.
Again, for roms, the DD and haakona can do everything except cmdr science. Both are a little slow. The scimitar has the flexible universal officer but the ship is not friendly for new players (my opinion).
Feds, oddessy family looks like a winner and is about all I can think of to suggest.
I don't *know* if non-vets can buy the fleet veteran destroyer or not (???). If so, this is THE most flexible ship you can get for feds, and its solid for a romulan as well.
Unfortunately, IMO most of the Romulan ships are ugly. The only good seem to be the Mogai and the Ar'Kif, and maybe the Dhaelon. I suppose some like the D'Deridex (if only because it TNG and canon) or the Scimitar, but man, the other ships.... I am really surprised they were all made by the same team.
Avenger may not be much to look at, but she's got it where it counts, FIREPOWER.
Also have the regent, IMHO probably one of the best cruisers you can find, and the 180 deg torp allows you to have more more weapon for broadsiding which is nice.
Just depends on your flavor.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Turning to face the opposite direction is 180 degrees. At 10 degrees per second, that is 18 seconds. This is a long, long, long time in a fight. 7 deg/sec takes 25 seconds, 9 takes 20, and so on. Typical combat maneuvers are 1/2 that, at 90 degrees, but you are still taking in the neighborhood of 10 seconds to do THAT in a fight, which is still a long time. 30 degrees per second can do a 90 in 3 seconds and a 180 in 6. Anything under 20 is going to seem rather slow when chasing a fast target or trying to bear on something that is behind you, it just IS.
Romulan ships gain a lot of turn rate when cloaked, and for warp-in waves of enemy (think: starbase fleet defense) roms can use cloak to face the newcomers easily, and get a dps decloak advantage for doing so. Evasive lets you do the occasional whip-it turn in combat. Active officers to reduce evasive time helps. You will never be able to fly the cows like an escort, but in PVE you can always have your front weapons on the enemy with a little practice. I drive a carrier that is slower than the scimitar, and I keep dual beam banks on target with little to no "let me get pointed at it" downtime; and it can't even do the cloaking trick. Attack pattern omega also gives some turn boost, and there are other ways to get more turn as well.
Bottom line is that you can build around the turn issue, it should not be a problem once you learn to fly it and tweak it just a little bit. Driving them is very different if you are used to responsive craft, but with practice, it is rarely a problem in PVE.