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disposeableh3r0
Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
Enterprise is in the JJ verse.
And the temporal cold war has nothing to do with the prime universe.
Old Spock didn't travel in time but through realities, ending up in the past of an alternate reality, the same one the enterprise created in first contact.
This is why the nx enterprise and the JJ verse enterprise are so much more advanced than their prime universe counterparts, Because humanity encountered the borg early, and had been secretly studying wreckage left behind.
It also explains the more military elements o the JJ verse with earth having been attack so much more often and so early.
And the temporal cold war has nothing to do with the prime universe.
Old Spock didn't travel in time but through realities, ending up in the past of an alternate reality, the same one the enterprise created in first contact.
This is why the nx enterprise and the JJ verse enterprise are so much more advanced than their prime universe counterparts, Because humanity encountered the borg early, and had been secretly studying wreckage left behind.
It also explains the more military elements o the JJ verse with earth having been attack so much more often and so early.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Post edited by disposeableh3r0 on
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I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
or if your really doing a series called "enterprise: loosely based on star trek but not really"
That show was to existing trek like the new Jack Ryan movie is to the Jack Ryan books.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
The NX-01 is not more advanced than the TOS Connie. That was made perfectly clear in "In a Mirror, Darkly". It may look higher-tech, but one could make the same argument about a steam locomotive and a Eurostar.
Also, Defiant-class and Vor'cha-class ships briefly appeared in the "future archive" in one of the TCW episodes. I seriously doubt those designs would ever exist in the JJverse.
The JJverse diverged from the main one when the Narada emerged in 2233. Old Spock made this perfectly clear. Since Enterprise took place between 2151 and 2155, then logically it is canon to both universes.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I said the nx AND constitution were more advanced than their prime universe COUNTERPARTS.
In a mirror darkly happened in yet another alternate timeline in an alternate reality, otherwise when "mirror, mirror" happened more than 100 years later the enterprise would have been more advanced.
Archer was being shown a possible future again in a possible alternate reality who knows if its still a valid possible future?
Since the JJ verse clearly includes at least the existence of archer its possible that the events of the jj verse have altered the same timeline.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
The JJprise has a different look and better technology as a result of Nero making short work of the Kelvin several years earlier, Starfleets bleeding edge ship in terms of offensive and defensive system at the time. The ship was largely unchallenged in the prime universe. In the JJ verse the survivors told doom and gloom tales of how their best ship got crippled in two shots. It scared the hell out of starfleet that then opted to shift development away from science systems to tactical ones instead. The newer Enterprise is the result of that shift in direction.
I think the Kelvin shuttles had scans saved and Starfleet analyzed them.
Did the JJ-Prise shoot any weapons in Into Darkness? Did this ship do anything interesting? I watched the film in fast forward most of the time until I gave the DVD my brother.
That would explain the black/white streamlined designs the devs came out with for the old ships. That could be the JJ Universe alts...mind you they look really good, but wouldnt be the same for the show.
once. and it was in all the previews.
Actualy the enterprise spends a lot of time being shot at but hardly firing back these days.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
....maybe after picard beat that scimitar (a ship designed to dominate fleets) someone cried overpowered, and now federation vessels have a 10 minute cool down per shot XD
...sry, couldnt resist!
Dude.....
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
More like JJ trek is based on enterprise.
I actually liked it. It had a rocky start but then the first 3 season of next gen were just as bad.
I think it got cancelled too early it was just starting to hit its stride.
Also one of the only series that didn't end up with a nebula that turned out to be a creature.
ds9 also didn't do that but then that one was based an an immobile space station.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
ENT had the evil space station and space lizard TRIBBLE though.
The Borg in FC created a new timeline, the NX-01 was based on the Sovereign Class, later after the events of the Borg episode Starfleet started to increases their tec using Borg stuff from the Artic Circle leading to the even more advanced Kelvin Type.
Sometime during this, Romulans from after the destruction of Romulus go back in time to avert the destruction (hence the Nemesis era uniforms, Cloaks, and the advanced looking BoP) and inadvertently start the Temporal Cold War.
Nero arrives in an already existing universe where the temporal walls are weaker due to the TCW, the destruction of the Narada leads to even more Borg tec being added to ships.
Contradictions:
USS Defiant-Simple, it went back in time to a mirror universe of an alternate universe.
Prime Universe ships in the sphere builders battle. Ignore them, simple, thay are a reuse of existing models, there was a Steamrunner in ENT in an Earth fleet, there was the reuse of a Xindi ship for the Tellerites etc.
Evidence:
No Nx-01, seriously it is nowhere, even the aircraft carriers end up on drawings, so does the ring ship.
No mention of Archer as captain of an Enterprise or as President of the UCP / UFP.
No mention of the Xindi, even when the Breen attack the Earth in much the same way.
Tech levels, I realise the obvious reason for this out of universe, but it makes no sense in universe.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Besides there are far too many instances of changing the past changes the future in Star Trek. So if Nero went back in time and killed Kirk's dad and destroyed Vulcan, then STO would not exist.
I didn't dispute the Constitution comment. I'm well aware the JJprise is more advanced than the TOS one.
The Defiant's library included records of Archer, Hoshi, and the NX-01. It was obvious intended to be the same ship that disappeared in "The Tholian Web".
Who's to say the I.S.S. Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror" wasn't more advanced than the prime version? Or maybe in the mirror universe, by the 2260s the Constitution was no longer a flagship design but an old ship due to be retired soon.
You're right, we don't know anything for sure. But the implication is that those ships were from the future of Archer's timeline.
I don't see how the Nero's incursion into 2233 would have affected events that happened a century earlier.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Enterprise is a giant retcon desaster first and foremost
But it is subject to debate wether it is the timeline we knew from the other shows. Since they found Borg on earth and all the other nonsense they used to create a sense of "recognition", First contact probably launched a different timeline in which Enterprise and all the movies past FC are set in.
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They were not Caitians.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Damon Lindelof who produced and co-wrote Into Darkness confirmed they were Caitians in an interview with startrek.com.
If one of the people in charge of the new Star Trek movies says they are Caitians, then they are Caitians.
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But the timelines didn't diverge since there is differences between the 2 universes that happened before Nero attacked. Nero did not go back in time, but into a parallel universe that was almost completely identical to the 23rd Century Alpha Quadrant. We don't even know if there is a Dominion or Borg in the JJ Universe. So while there was a Captain Archer in the prime universe and JJ universe, that is not proof that they are the same person. After all, Parallels had thousands of Enterprise-D with each having a different history.
...I thought this was because of advances in special effects technology? This is also why Klingons "evolved" (until the one Klingon dude decided it was time to create augmented Klingons because somehow the natural ones weren't badassed enough).
If the NX had Borg technology, don't you think we'd know about it? And the idea that Phlox cured Nanite infection a century BEFORE Picard was assimilated still confuses me. I mean, if we had the cure, one would assume Starfleet officers would all be vaccinated with a counter virus. Well, okay, that would likely start around the time when Q introduced us. But even so -- they wouldn't have such a mystery to Picard if the NX actually used some of its technology. This is all not to mention that certain things the NX encountered, like time travel and matter-altering toys, wouldn't have been such a shock. And other species -- would they REALLY have been oblivious to every new alien species they ever met if they had Borg memory chips to go through? Granted, it wouldn't be an archive. But it's a safe bet that the Borg met a good number of now-familiar species that the NX would have encountered (and the neural chips in their brains would have shown that). Yeah, I'll stop there. I'm sure many of could go on and on with that one.
Better thought: Compare the movie Enterprises with the TV ones. For one thing, the movies have a bigger budget to play with, so they tend to be fancier. In the case of the NX, there was FAR more time put into designing the ship than there was on effectively using it. My guess is that the budget went more into the art department than the writing.
Answer: Money...and motivation.
In that vein, the producers of ENT say that the series is in the same timeline as the rest of the franchise. So plainly, ENT is in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, the pre-ST09 movies, DS9, VOY, and TAS.
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Was it onscreen? No. It's not canon, they were not Caitians.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Actually it doesn't, because pre-Nero Abramsverse is the prime universe. So, in a way, that's not Abramsverse yet. Abramsverse starts when Nero travells through time and starts a rampage all around, altering the natural development of events - thus creating the Abramsverse, which as far as I understand is actually not a parallel universe, but an altered timeline that lead to different developments in history due to the Nero & Spock incursion from the future.
Star Trek: Enterprise is set in the prime universe/timeline. It has always been set in the prime universe and it has not been altered by events in the J.J. movies.
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