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Now will Cryptic do something about the TRUE power creeps?

darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
The really big ones in the game. We all know what they are. It's things in the C-Store. The C-Store ships, their consoles, lockbox ships, their consoles, Lobi ships, their consoles, 'Special Variant' Doffs from various Boxes and Packs.

Don't just do things halfway. If Cryptic truly wants to stop it, they need to kill the really big reason it exists in their game. These are Pay to Win Power Creeps which is a bigger problem than the Earn to Win Power Creeps.

So now we know what Cryptic should be "fixing" next or are they going to admit it's fine to power creep as long as you pay to win?

May as well toss in fleet assets too, huh, Cryptic? Although they aren't P2W but still technically in the same classification of part of the problem you created.
___________________

"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
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  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Until I see any of the following,

    1) Leech console nerfed, plus a few choice others

    2) Cooldown reduction doffs nerfed (not just technicians btw)

    3) APA reigned in

    4) Fleet holdings not released with er not released anymore actually

    5) -DR reigned in

    All signs point to no. To be honest the cynical side of me things this entire reputation trait revamp was mostly motivated to give them another 'carrot' to add to the new fleet holding in the form of +1 trait slots even though I don't even know if those will exist.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Fleets, boxes and Cstore is where they make their money. They won't nerf it. In fact, you can expect the opposite, nerfing everything else, and adding more powercreep there. For example, nerfing the rep... Oh wait, they already did that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wildmousexwildmousex Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    pay to win indicates that you can only win by paying money - - in STO you can grind dil, trade it for zen, and get your hands on all of those consoles and ships without paying a cent - your argument is false.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • thyrnecristhyrnecris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    wildmousex wrote: »
    pay to win indicates that you can only win by paying money - - in STO you can grind dil, trade it for zen, and get your hands on all of those consoles and ships without paying a cent - your argument is false.

    The interesting thing is - the 'You can trade Dil for Zen' argumenters forget that:
    1. The Object in question STILL comes from the Z-Store.
    2. The Zen purchased on the Dilithium Exchange are STILL aquired with real money. Maybe not by the one USING them to purchase assets on the Z_Store. But at some point, someone in need of more Dilithium has purchased the Zen.

    Thus, even if it is 'By Proxy', still Pay to Win. Also, if one has to 'grind' for something, one pays with a MULTITUDE of time, compared to what one would pay in money.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I await the blogs where they discuss the nerf to doffs including stacking, lockbox and cstore items...


    I am all for them making money, but when the throw around the "we must control power creep" then they have to actually tackle the items that make the power creep.

    All they want with the rep powers, is yet another way to monetize something. It has nothing to do with power creep.
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,513 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The only creepy thing on the power creep are the power creep creeps.
    Here we go, again. Paying with cash, ingame currency and time is basically all cost and not FREE. Free would be if I gave you something for absolutely nothing.

    *facepalm*
    So every MMO ever is Pay to Win.
    Would you be more contend with calling it "Pay [only directly with real money without any other option] to win"? Because thats whats the ppl are talking about when talking "Pay to win". Investing time/ingame currency to improve characters is usually refered to as playing the game.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I have no problem with c-store ships or boxes or fleet items or whatever, because they are not something that has unlimited growth for your character. it is totally different to earning powers and abilities that increase in an unlimited fashion.

    you buy a new ship, you cant use your old one. you get a new doff, you have to give up an old one. you get a new console, you sacrifice an old. some configurations may be better than others (although that is often hugely debatable) certainly some items might be too powerful (again often debatable) and the individual item may need looking at, but that's a different issue. that's this item needs fixing, please fix it and we can debate the individual issue and cryptic will either act or they wont.

    but this is a free to play game that you dont have to spend money on. sorry, but you can buy powers (or trade so someone else pays) and that is not going to change. get over it. they are not going to restructure their business to suit you. it sounds like you want to be able to earn everything in a free game and not have to pay money at the same time.

    and why does anyone care that another person has spent money. if you want to earn the ship through playing the game you can. yes, someone else has put the money in. so what? why is it any skin of your nose what another person has done with their money?
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    wildmousex wrote: »
    pay to win indicates that you can only win by paying money - - in STO you can grind dil, trade it for zen, and get your hands on all of those consoles and ships without paying a cent - your argument is false.

    The first part is correct, the second isn't.

    Yes pay to win does mean you need to cough up cash to win. Whether directly from your own pocket or indirectly from someone elses' pocket, in this case the dil exchange.

    However neither are true you can play and beat all PvE content in this game with the level 40 ships, and if you know what you are doing with the default gear that comes with it. Pay to win really only comes into its' own in a game with a decent PvP system, which this game does not have.
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    True power creep = $$$$$. So I'm sure it's not going anywhere.

    Yeah, so cryptic will Nerf with the reputation system to create the illusion of 'decreasing power creep.'

    "Ahh, reputation passives are 4% of the real problem. Let's just nerf that, and focus on that":rolleyes:

    "Hey look. We lowered the power creep. Didn't you guys ask for that? You got it..".:rolleyes:

    "Aye, it took you 480+ hours and hard work to complete all the reputations? We don't care, we're nerfing your hard work. Deal with it.":mad:

    "You had 8 nickels, now you have 4 dimes. It evens out... (I hope no one discovers the 8 nickels gave you more way options in combat than the 4 dimes.)":mad:

    All mind games, and illusions. I see through all of it. Come on Cryptic stop toying with us.
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The really big ones in the game. We all know what they are. It's things in the C-Store. The C-Store ships, their consoles, lockbox ships, their consoles, Lobi ships, their consoles, 'Special Variant' Doffs from various Boxes and Packs.

    Don't just do things halfway. If Cryptic truly wants to stop it, they need to kill the really big reason it exists in their game. These are Pay to Win Power Creeps which is a bigger problem than the Earn to Win Power Creeps.

    So now we know what Cryptic should be "fixing" next or are they going to admit it's fine to power creep as long as you pay to win?

    May as well toss in fleet assets too, huh, Cryptic? Although they aren't P2W but still technically in the same classification of part of the problem you created.

    Will they do something about including your reason?

    No. why? there is no profit in it.
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  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    atlantra wrote: »
    True power creep = $$$$$. So I'm sure it's not going anywhere.

    Yeah, so cryptic will Nerf with the reputation system to create the illusion of 'decreasing power creep.'

    "Ahh, reputation passives are 4% of the real problem. Let's just nerf that, and focus on that":rolleyes:

    "Hey look. We lowered the power creep. Didn't you guys ask for that? You got it..".:rolleyes:

    "Aye, it took you 480+ hours and hard work to complete all the reputations? We don't care, we're nerfing your hard work. Deal with it.":mad:

    "You had 8 nickels, now you have 4 dimes. It evens out... (I hope no one discovers the 8 nickels gave you more way options in combat than the 4 dimes.)":mad:

    All mind games, and illusions. I see through all of it. Come on Cryptic stop toying with us.

    how the hell you took 480h to complete rep? lol

    i maxed rep across 5 characters, and it took nowhere near that.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    In truth, the powercreep is not nerfed, it's buffed. The most important perks from the rep are buffed. For example, the crit related perks, or the damage related ones. And instead of gaining a meager +30weapon skill (whatever it is called), you'll have a raw damage increase.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    phoenicius wrote: »
    how the hell you took 480h to complete rep? lol

    i maxed rep across 5 characters, and it took nowhere near that.

    Good for you. Yay... You're so awesome. Some people hate grinding anything. Ever thought about that?
    some people play other (better) games..

    I don't know how long it took and I really don't care to be honest... Thank you. It was called a 'random number'... "look there's a million troops coming." "No it's not. it's only 823,406 troops coming." Who the **** cares. It's a lot... You understand yet? Yeah normal people don't spend all day calculating TRIBBLE... Moving on...
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Breaking news: Universal Consoles are converted into mission pods and every ship gains mission pod hardpoint in addition to the existing console.

    This would mean everyone can use more regular consoles now, while mission pods are only usable in the dedicated pod slot.

    So every ship only uses a single former console power at a time, but can swap any time when out of combat.

    former console sets that give extra bonuses, like the Odyssey or Vesta sets, can be upgraded to retain the passive set bonuses through a special reputation project that consumes all 3 consoles plus a number of lobi crystals, but still need to be switched out to access the different active click powers.



















    I pulled this out of my behind, of course, but is this what you are thinking of? ;)
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • thyrnecristhyrnecris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    timelord79 wrote: »
    Breaking news: Universal Consoles are converted into mission pods and every ship gains mission pod hardpoint in addition to the existing console.

    This would mean everyone can use more regular consoles now, while mission pods are only usable in the dedicated pod slot.

    So every ship only uses a single former console power at a time, but can swap any time when out of combat.

    former console sets that give extra bonuses, like the Odyssey or Vesta sets, can be upgraded to retain the passive set bonuses through a special reputation project that consumes all 3 consoles plus a number of lobi crystals, but still need to be switched out to access the different active click powers.



















    I pulled this out of my behind, of course, but is this what you are thinking of? ;)

    Means less Z-Store (and Lockbox/Lobistore) Consoles useable, thus cutting into the amount of possible Cha-Ching. Won't happen.
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I don't see how.

    using more than 2 special consoles is gimping any ship anyway. Only on 10 console ships is 3 consoles useful and then only if you gain aset bonus.

    if you you can upgrade a console to retain set bonuses, don't need to slot all 3 of them anymore but pay lobi to do so, this would follow the 4 dimes for 8 nickels philosophy and and you get an equally powerful ship at least out of it.
    Though you have to pick and choose which console you want for every respective build.
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    wildmousex wrote: »
    pay to win indicates that you can only win by paying money - - in STO you can grind dil, trade it for zen, and get your hands on all of those consoles and ships without paying a cent - your argument is false.

    The rep system as it stands now was solely a grind. You want the powers? You grind it out. But everyone had access to the same without real world currency involved. To let something else remain that requires someone paying is much worse.

    And also Cryptic is using the power creep as a term to hide behind. If they really want any fresh 50 to be on par with vet 50's, then everyone should have instant access to the same things no matter what at the start. Even your false dilithium argument has holes to that because I have a few 50's and the ones that have the most dilithium to use is the vet ones not the one that hit 50 last double xp weekend.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Oh and to the rest of you that said you don't see it happening because they make money on it, I agree with you. I don't see it happening either but it would be nice if they would be more truthful with us that this revamp has nothing to do with "power creep". And as one said, I won't be surprised if they pull a stunt like have extra trait slots for sell in the C-Store. The guy said fleet holding but I can just see them put in in the store instead.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Doffs are one of the top issues IMO. They changed the game all on their own, and not in a good way either. I wouldn't have minded if they were just some nice, small passive buffs, but to go so far as to change powers to do something they were never meant to do? No, that has to stop.
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  • thyrnecristhyrnecris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They are telling us the truth. Or they would have adressed some Z-Store assets already, especially in their 'Remove the Creep' wave right now. The truth is obvious and visible, they just don't spell it out.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If they really want any fresh 50 to be on par with vet 50's

    They dont want that and nor have they said so.
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It will never happen. Because these are money makers for Cryptic/PWE. Rep abilities are not.
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    None of it is pay to win. If you HAD to spend money to obtain it, yes, then it would be. However, you can get ANY item in-game providing you trade in time.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
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  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    None of it is pay to win. If you HAD to spend money to obtain it, yes, then it would be. However, you can get ANY item in-game providing you trade in time.


    It all still leads back to Zen. Which somebody, somewhere, sprang real moolah for.
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It all still leads back to Zen. Which somebody, somewhere, sprang real moolah for.

    Because they chose to. Does that make it pay to win? No, they just chose the shortcut.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
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  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It all still leads back to Zen. Which somebody, somewhere, sprang real moolah for.

    the game needs money or it closes down. it a free game and someone has to splash the cash but why does anyone else care how much money someone else, whom they will never meet, spends?

    does it matter if the game was totally free for everyone and pwe paid for it all out of the goodness of their heart? as long as the player has the choice not to spend money then what does it matter where the funds come from?
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    They dont want that and nor have they said so.


    "if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one who’d spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together."

    Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer
    Star Trek Online


    Playing together includes going against each other in PvP and not just teaming in either PvP or PvE. So that's saying they want a fresh 50 to be more on par with a vet 50.


    And one day he expects them to have 200 to choose from and their solution is to say "pick 4 ground and 4 space out of 200"? Really?
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    "if we had 200 Reputation powers, the difference between a fresh max-level character and one who’d spent hundreds of hours at endgame would just be too large for them to play together."

    Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer
    Star Trek Online


    Playing together includes going against each other in PvP and not just teaming in either PvP or PvE. So that's saying they want a fresh 50 to be more on par with a vet 50.


    And one day he expects them to have 200 to choose from and their solution is to say "pick 4 ground and 4 space out of 200"? Really?

    yes i read that already. first off we get 2 reps a year. he is not saying the game will be here for 100 years. its an exaggerated argument just to highlight a problem.

    Now, you said 'If they really want any fresh 50 to be on par with vet 50's' which they dont. what they dont want is a gap that has unlimited growth, so they are reigning that in.

    they still want a gap, and it is still a sizable gap that already exists when you factor in weapons and ships and powers, but they dont want that gap to go on forever.

    whether its 4 powers or 8 or whatever line in the sand they pick, they dont want that to go on forever.
  • thyrnecristhyrnecris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    As it has been said by me and a lot of other people already: Expect them to release additional slots of all types in a T3 Fleet Holding. Just like it happened with Assignment Slots (Embassy, retrofitted afaik) and Active Doff Slots (Spire).
    Also, I very much expect future Rep Lines to release Passives that will turn out MORE powerful than the currently buffed ones, to have people grind for newer Rep Lines.
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