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Devs: Is PvP being revamped on Season 9?

crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
I don't believe everything STO Wiki has but at least they have been right in some occassions.
According to it:

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Upcoming_content

Part of S9 would be a re-vamping of the PvP areas. Not that many would care but for those who do is this planned with the next version? Just curious since the launch of STO that zone has been neglected more than others...it needs some real TLC.

Just wanted to see if it's on the horizon for future project revamping.:D
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Post edited by crusader2007 on

Comments

  • mamif3mamif3 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    In sto for new content always expect nothing (especially for pvp) and expect them to break something.

    In the long run your sanity will thank you.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    "... and so the post vanished into the endless shades of the internet.

    story told, no happy end this time :(.
  • duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
  • notrealednanotrealedna Member Posts: 1,028
    edited March 2014
    money from pvp players = good
    content for pvp players = bad
  • akanaroakanaro Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    We need PvP content for sure but more importantly we need Pvp to be balanced first. People don't avoid PvP for lack of content but rather for lack of balance. Too many cloaking vapers and Aux2Bat cruisers and not enough defense against those 150K shots.

    /Rant
  • notrealednanotrealedna Member Posts: 1,028
    edited March 2014
    akanaro wrote: »
    We need PvP content for sure but more importantly we need Pvp to be balanced first. People don't avoid PvP for lack of content but rather for lack of balance. Too many cloaking vapers and Aux2Bat cruisers and not enough defense against those 150K shots.

    /Rant

    you can avoid those 150k alpha strikes with high defense (evasive) .Sure they get a kill from time to time but not enough to decide a match.The problem is you have ships (romulans) which can stay in fight longer than escorts and then cloak when shet hits the fan...thats not a cloak problem ,kdf BoP can't do that and that ship explodes only when you look at it.

    Cruisers a2b faw is broken .They have all powers on global cooldown so you only need 1 bind to play them .

    Other than that the game needs a pvp tutorial.People don't know how to use speed tanking ,tac team (or cast tac team on their team mates ) how to distribute their shields and things like that.Once they know that they can face an unbalanced match ,but they will never play if they don't know how to distribute their shields.Remember that all games seem unbalanced when people don't know what they are doing.Try any new game you don't know how to play and join pvp to see how fast you get killed.
  • edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    you can avoid those 150k alpha strikes with high defense (evasive)


    With the loadout swapping, they can one shot you 2 times before the evasive ends his cooldown. Vapers are far worst than aux2bat. You can combat aux2bat cruis with scramble, but you are at the mercy of the vaper unless you have at least 2 dedicated hunters, and even so, just for one vaper.

    And btw, no.. I dont think PVP is going to be revamped beacose is really simple: they need a hole season just and only for PVP to fix the current state of the system.
    They need to balance the hole game.
    They need to add new maps.
    They need to make new type of games.

    A PVP revamp with out thouse 3 things (especially balance), is just going to be a bad joke. But well, we are a costume to Cryptic bad jokes, look at the Galaxy Reboot…
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  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I like to be optimistic but i would not hold my breath.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited March 2014
    IMO the most beneficial revamp there could be for PvP is to expand the Foundry to allow for the creation of custom PvP maps.
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  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    IMO the most beneficial revamp there could be for PvP is to expand the Foundry to allow for the creation of custom PvP maps.


    Foundry can fix many aspect of the game, but looks like that releasing easy PVE queue missions and reputations systems is more important than fixing long term and durable content like foundry or PVP.
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  • duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    IMO the most beneficial revamp there could be for PvP is to expand the Foundry to allow for the creation of custom PvP maps.

    and to allow more open PVP maps like Kerrat. also for ground.
  • akanaroakanaro Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well Ker'rat is by far the worst PvP experience in my opinion. For open world PvP to work well we need a gear score system of sorts and to limit entry to war zones to only those who fall within the intended range for that zone. Or it could even be done per instance of the same zone. High level players go to one instance, low level players to another. Once inside you should also not be able to change gear of course.
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Waiting for a dev to come in and justify the shuttle PvP as a "revamp".
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  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Shuttle PvP was just so they could get a prototype for mixed faction queues.

    Revamp? Maybe not, more like one brick in the foundation of a revamp.
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  • notrealednanotrealedna Member Posts: 1,028
    edited March 2014
    With the loadout swapping, they can one shot you 2 times before the evasive ends his cooldown. Vapers are far worst than aux2bat. You can combat aux2bat cruis with scramble, but you are at the mercy of the vaper unless you have at least 2 dedicated hunters, and even so, just for one vaper.


    No.You don't know how to use speed ,and time your heals and shield distribution.You can do many things now since et no longer shares cd with tt and st.
    Also pvp is made for team play not 1v1.People forget that the game is not for 1v1.Even if you are the only one vaped you still help your team...that alpha striker kills you while the team can move on.Also a alpha striker is a problem for the team hes in ...hes never in range for heals so his team is almost always missing 1 -2 guys.

    its team balance not 1v1 balance.The game is not and should never be balanced for 1v1.That would mean your escort should kill a dedicated healer which is stupid.You should need a science guy to debuff the healer for the escort to kill .Same for other classes.Team work is op.

    the game would get alot more people playing if they would make a simple pvp tutorial.They would get ideas for free from pvp comunity .Be sure lot more people would pvp simply because most people are not idiots (geko thinks people who play sto are casual) and understand that practice and experience gets you better .
  • arcjetarcjet Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    money from pvp players = good
    content for pvp players = bad

    Content?
    I thought the most important content for PvP was balance, first and foremost.
    And maybe some good matchmaking.

    A lot of Counterstrike players were happy with one map (de:dust). The same for Team Fortress (two forts). Fixed classes, fixed equipment. Still fun gameplay.

    But premium game content aka 'it's bigger & better, so you want to buy it!' doesn't go well with balanced, fair and fun PvP.
    It just doesn't work. You either attract players with power creep, or you have good PvP. Not both.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No.You don't know how to use speed ,and time your heals and shield distribution.

    How do you know what I know or what I dont know to do? I know I can one shot anyone in my vaper, even with a full team waiting for me and still survive at 100% hull and shields.. and believe me, I am not as good vaper as other.
    Vapers are the biggest problem this game have, and if you cant recognize that, it is because you are a vaper. Anything that can one shot a cruiser is wrong.. period. Even the devs admitted that when they nerfed the double tap.

    I can go in to a claud of 10 enemy ships (do that all the days on CaH vs KDF), pick my target, one shoted and run like hell before they can tag the dead poor guy to heal them.. so, dont tell me Vapers are not OP. And I dont even use proton barrage...
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  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Devs: Is PvP being revamped on Season 9?

    Pure. Comedy. Gold.

    You're funny, yes- but stop it, you kook. :D
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    arcjet wrote: »
    Content?
    I thought the most important content for PvP was balance, first and foremost.
    And maybe some good matchmaking.

    A lot of Counterstrike players were happy with one map (de:dust). The same for Team Fortress (two forts). Fixed classes, fixed equipment. Still fun gameplay.

    But premium game content aka 'it's bigger & better, so you want to buy it!' doesn't go well with balanced, fair and fun PvP.
    It just doesn't work. You either attract players with power creep, or you have good PvP. Not both.

    A lot of truth here.


    PvP, in any context, is about creating matches that are winnable by either side.


    And, perhaps most importantly, winning should be predicated on skill in the match, not knowledge per se in the preparation.


    An excellent build should always beat a good build, all things being equal. Builds do factor in.


    However skill, strategy and tactics ought to be the determining factor.


    As things stand, PvP is simply not accessible to the majority.


    The community have done what they can with the woefully inadequate tools at their disposal, but for PvP to work we need Cryptic to do more than just publish the odd player blog.


    The recent shuttle PvP was an excellent case in point.


    The problem with it is universal consoles.


    On small ships, those consoles are just way too OP.


    So, cryptic had a few possible options they could have taken.


    They could have used the map as an opportunity to pass over universal consoles and make them starship only.


    That would have worked nicely, restricting shuttles to either shuttle specific gear or standard console types. Would have made shuttle PvP much more about skill than gear.


    However, all they did was partially nerf the point defence console for everyone and called it a day.


    This is shoddy work, a clear lack of will and commitment to that portion of the player base and, frankly, lazy.
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kimmym wrote: »
    Shuttle PvP was just so they could get a prototype for mixed faction queues.

    Revamp? Maybe not, more like one brick in the foundation of a revamp.

    shuttle pvp was added simply so they can justify no further pvp development by pointing at t and saying 'see? nobody cares about pvp. its a poor investment'.
  • notrealednanotrealedna Member Posts: 1,028
    edited March 2014
    How do you know what I know or what I dont know to do? I know I can one shot anyone in my vaper, even with a full team waiting for me and still survive at 100% hull and shields.. and believe me, I am not as good vaper as other.
    Vapers are the biggest problem this game have, and if you cant recognize that, it is because you are a vaper. Anything that can one shot a cruiser is wrong.. period. Even the devs admitted that when they nerfed the double tap.

    I can go in to a claud of 10 enemy ships (do that all the days on CaH vs KDF), pick my target, one shoted and run like hell before they can tag the dead poor guy to heal them.. so, dont tell me Vapers are not OP. And I dont even use proton barrage...


    i know you dont know because you said what you said.Can you one shot me please .I want to see you 5 out of 5 or 10out of 10 or 15 out of 15 how many times you one shot me.

    arcjet wrote: »
    Content?
    I thought the most important content for PvP was balance, first and foremost.
    And maybe some good matchmaking.

    A lot of Counterstrike players were happy with one map (de:dust). The same for Team Fortress (two forts). Fixed classes, fixed equipment. Still fun gameplay.

    But premium game content aka 'it's bigger & better, so you want to buy it!' doesn't go well with balanced, fair and fun PvP.
    It just doesn't work. You either attract players with power creep, or you have good PvP. Not both.


    when you will pvp you will get more annoyed by the broken game engine than any powers in it.Invisible ewp ,theta ,tetryon are worse than a vaper.That is not the power itself its the shet game engine which lags and never renders whatever is in front of you.

    A matchmaking would be nice and it would fit in the "pvp update category". Different queues for premades and pugs would also help.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Highly unlikely. As it stands, I don't think there is a dev on the team with the competence to take it on and do a good job, sadly.
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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shuttle pvp was added simply so they can justify no further pvp development by pointing at t and saying 'see? nobody cares about pvp. its a poor investment'.

    Possibly.......but I do get the impression sometimes that not everyone is on exactly the same page at Cryptic.

    Things seem......rushed, somehow recently.

    The grindaversary. The using of an old winter game, with the exact same boxes. that was just slapping a min game down they had on file. Didn't try to make the appearence of the boxes have any relevance to the event.

    The relase of the Galaxy. Wonderful saucer speration, but silly graphical glitches remain.

    And then there's the shuttle PvP map.

    It's almost as if these good ideas get started and then someone comes along and makes them relase it before they're ready.


    Too many instances recently where Cryptic release mechanisms that feel like BF4. A game released months before it was ready due to, presumably, commercial pressure.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    arcjet wrote: »
    Content?
    I thought the most important content for PvP was balance, first and foremost.
    And maybe some good matchmaking.

    A lot of Counterstrike players were happy with one map (de:dust). The same for Team Fortress (two forts). Fixed classes, fixed equipment. Still fun gameplay.

    But premium game content aka 'it's bigger & better, so you want to buy it!' doesn't go well with balanced, fair and fun PvP.
    It just doesn't work. You either attract players with power creep, or you have good PvP. Not both.
    PvP can only be properly balanced in a static game where the tools used by the player never change. It will always be dynamically unstable in an environment where things change constantly.
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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    PvP can only be properly balanced in a static game where the tools used by the player never change. It will always be dynamically unstable in an environment where things change constantly.

    er....sorry, but thats just false.


    PvP does need to be seen as a separate entity to Pve, but in that context, it can easily be balanced.

    Let's take that shuttle PvP.

    All it needs, in order to approach what it could be, is for universal consoles to be designated starship only.

    Do that and BANG, we have a balanced PvP mode.


    Sure there'll be variation in kit and ships, but within an acceptable margin of variance.

    Acceptable in the sense that strategy and tactics will play the dominant role.


    As for starships, there does need to be some more work done there.

    The increased breadth of options makes balance trickier, admittedly, but there are again options here too.

    However, the big problem with all of this is that players can't do anymore than they're already doing.

    Cryptic, if they actually want PvP in the game, need to step up and do their bit.

    I'd recommend the proposed change to the shuttle map initially.

    Balance that, and thats a far easier proposition, and then you'd have a proper and stable platform to get metrics from to guide further resources into PvP...or not.
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Is that a rhetorical question?


    /pessimist
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I remember when S7 was meant to be both the season for the KDF and for PvP, with talk of a PvP focused rep system and all sorts. Instead we get Romulans that arguably broke PvP even more, and the KDF got a few nice tidbits rather than the full spotlight it was promised.

    It's a cynical way to look at it, but perhaps it is best Cryptic won't do anything with PvP - since no matter what they do chances are they'll break it even more.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    PvP can only be properly balanced in a static game where the tools used by the player never change. It will always be dynamically unstable in an environment where things change constantly.


    Pretty much this. Stable PvP requires limited choices and/or builds.
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  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    rinkster wrote: »

    Acceptable in the sense that strategy and tactics will play the dominant role.
    .

    Cryptic's version of "strategy and tactics" in this context is... ship builds even before the battle begins.
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