On that build the only thing I would suggest is the Klingon space Honor Guard set just for that +25% damage boost for Torps. I know its not the best for survivability but for a ship that is in and out of cloak a lot it works well. And the extra 25% damage boost you will notice. Other than that the build looks great.
The 2 piece breen set gives extra to transphasic weapons, both torpedoes AND mines. I think a 2 piece honor guard/ adapted MACO only boost torpedoes. The Hargh 'peng is there because of the long cool down and that it won't hurt me like plasmas, tricobalts or a gravimetric photon.
If you want to do anything with mine laying in the B'rel, get the Nukara Web Mines. With a pattern, they are hell on any big ship who angers all of them at once.
Their damage is boosted by AUX power too, which is *perfect* for the B'rel. Pretty sure no consoles affect them either, so your primary weapons will be unaffected by build trade-offs.
If you want to do anything with mine laying in the B'rel, get the Nukara Web Mines. With a pattern, they are hell on any big ship who angers all of them at once.
Their damage is boosted by AUX power too, which is *perfect* for the B'rel. Pretty sure no consoles affect them either, so your primary weapons will be unaffected by build trade-offs.
For PvP, I'd certainly go for the web mines as they can be very nasty. For PvE, I'm not sure they would be more effective than transphasic mines, especially when the transphasic mines are coupled with attack pattern beta 3.
For a b'rel, I'd go science... simple reason being you:
a) can 'tac up' via buffs like apo, ect
b) subnuke is a killer addition to an alpha (with a teamate, you can goad them into buffing up then subnuking it all off)
c) you should not need tac initiative as its hit and run, not sustained combat
d) doffed sensor scan can ruin an enemy attackers alpha (as it lowers their energy damage)
For pvp, the sustained combat ability of a tac is wasted on a hit and run build type like a b'rel I feel - whereas the somewhat more situational abilitie of a sci can help ensure a powerful opponent is brought to its knees temporarily
Yes, the Breen 2 piece is good if you go transphasic because the Breen Cluster shoots out mines as bomblets.
I will try mines a bit more. With Hot Pursuit, they seem almost useful even when you dont know where the enemy is going... it's just that the engagement range for running mines is so short when you do have uncertainty, and newer enemies are set up to counter your EBC, especially in close. Even the Borg will do it (tractor beams)... and hitting with mines (not laying them) seems to effectively open you up to attack.
If +Stealth resisted being knocked out of Cloak by CPB and such, i would use it.
I can see myself using mines long-term on my T'varo because it has 3 aft. I dont know if i have that luxury in my B'rel for my style of play.
Yesterday, I pugged ISE with a fleetmate. After the first generator was destroyed, I went over and unloaded everything on a group of spheres. I unleashed a grav well, mines, cluster mine, hargh 'peng, torpedo spread with transphasics, an isometric charge, tetryon cascade and the subspace indicution black hole. I must have been lucky to get some wonderful crits since the group of spheres blew up at the same time as the other 4 players popped the transformer. My fleetmate was impressed. The other 3 players just seemed confused that there were no spheres to destroy.
It was a thing of beauty.
What a rush!
For PvP, I'd certainly go for the web mines as they can be very nasty. For PvE, I'm not sure they would be more effective than transphasic mines, especially when the transphasic mines are coupled with attack pattern beta 3.
Nukara benefit from APB3 just as transphasics do, and vastly outperform the transphasics, especially against larger enemies. They're more useful in PVE than PVP because in PvP people are zipping around like fighter pilots these days. In PVE you can guarantee you will net the buggers.
Also, the damage bypasses shields, just like transphasics. As I said though, the Nukara mines, being console-less don't preclude using a transphasic setup at all. You are only gimping yourself by NOT using them.
I'll try to give the web mines a go tonight and see what happens. If you've got any tips for their use, I'm willing to give it a try. Who knows, maybe it will be a wonderful surprise.
Yes, the Breen 2 piece is good if you go transphasic because the Breen Cluster shoots out mines as bomblets.
I will try mines a bit more. With Hot Pursuit, they seem almost useful even when you dont know where the enemy is going... it's just that the engagement range for running mines is so short when you do have uncertainty, and newer enemies are set up to counter your EBC, especially in close. Even the Borg will do it (tractor beams)... and hitting with mines (not laying them) seems to effectively open you up to attack.
If +Stealth resisted being knocked out of Cloak by CPB and such, i would use it.
I can see myself using mines long-term on my T'varo because it has 3 aft. I dont know if i have that luxury in my B'rel for my style of play.
If Hot Pursuit actually made Mines pursue targets faster, I'd like the trait. This is more a PVP issue for me with fast moving ships literally having no worry about mines.
If Hot Pursuit actually made Mines pursue targets faster, I'd like the trait. This is more a PVP issue for me with fast moving ships literally having no worry about mines.
Yeah, mines are darn slow. It's pretty comical in PvE to see the mines zipping along after T'varos or pitiful BoPs, but never quite getting there before I vaporize them.
I gave the web mines a try in place of the transphasic ones, and DPS went way down. I'm only seeing one thing that the web affects when it does catch something, but the mines with dispersal pattern beta 3 will destroy one thing and remaining mines go to another target. It seems to be more effective with my current tactics. Web mines still might be a better play when not using a dispersal pattern, though.
I gave the web mines a try in place of the transphasic ones, and DPS went way down. I'm only seeing one thing that the web affects when it does catch something, but the mines with dispersal pattern beta 3 will destroy one thing and remaining mines go to another target. It seems to be more effective with my current tactics. Web mines still might be a better play when not using a dispersal pattern, though.
I gave the web mines a try in place of the transphasic ones, and DPS went way down. I'm only seeing one thing that the web affects when it does catch something, but the mines with dispersal pattern beta 3 will destroy one thing and remaining mines go to another target. It seems to be more effective with my current tactics. Web mines still might be a better play when not using a dispersal pattern, though.
Web Mine use?
Put some TAC BUFFs like APA and/or APO, have high Aux Power, decloak, and let loose with DPB3. Web Mines in such a way are devastating. Even TAC Cubes you'll see get hit tremendously hard.
There is a catch though.
If you do the above tactics (or similar), and drop out of cloaks to use the Decloak Dmg Bonus, it's quite deadly, most esp. so if you have a Rom Embassy BOFF with Superior Subterfuge (takes the 15% default dmg bonus on decloak to a whopping 30%, but still only 5 second timer).
If you utilize the EBC and stay cloaked when you drop the mines, you do not benefit from the Decloak Dmg Bonus.
Ships with EBC firing torps or dropping mines while still cloaked do not get any Decloak Dmg Bonus. Which is a pretty severe drawback, IMO, for the B'Rel and T'Varo.
Ships with EBC firing torps or dropping mines while still cloaked do not get any Decloak Dmg Bonus. Which is a pretty severe drawback, IMO, for the B'Rel and T'Varo.
For a B'rel without an Embassy Sub BOFF, the damage bonus (currently on Holodeck) is the same whether you decloak or not: +15%. Sub would add +10%, giving you a +25% Ambush vs. the +15% EBC. It's basically the same for a T'varo, without the need for the Embassy Sub BOFF...access to regular ol' Sub BOFFs, etc, etc, etc.
With the changes on Tribble though, the bonus even without the Embassy Sub BOFF for the B'rel is +25%. So you'd lose out on +10% by not decloaking (+20% by not decloaking with the Sub BOFF).
So currently, the average player loses nothing by not decloaking. The player with a Sub BOFF loses out on +10%. When S9 lands next Tuesday, the T'varo w/Sub will continue to lose out by +10% while the B'rel w/Sub will lose out by +20% for not decloaking.
I wonder if flanking will help make up the loss?
I expect not.
That loss of decloak buff is a great mistake imo. If anything the Chang B'rel (and its Rom equivalent) should get it plus a small increase.
The whole decloak damage buff in my reckoning was meant to show the shock value of the target being caught unaware. What more shocking than a decloak for a few seconds to fire and recloak attack. Such a shocking attack may be why the single torpedo launched by the first Chang prototype had such devastating hits on the Enterprise in the movie.
I wonder if flanking will help make up the loss?
I expect not.
That loss of decloak buff is a great mistake imo. If anything the Chang B'rel (and its Rom equivalent) should get it plus a small increase.
The whole decloak damage buff in my reckoning was meant to show the shock value of the target being caught unaware. What more shocking than a decloak for a few seconds to fire and recloak attack. Such a shocking attack may be why the single torpedo launched by the first Chang prototype had such devastating hits on the Enterprise in the movie.
I'll ***** about in in the General Forum. Come and watch, I'm sure I'll make it flameworthy!
I'll ***** about in in the General Forum. Come and watch, I'm sure I'll make it flameworthy!
It may well be a fight worth the struggle. We have lost much in the interest of "balance", its time we KDF push focus on growing our strengths again, endurance, speed, and heavy hits.
It may well be a fight worth the struggle. We have lost much in the interest of "balance", its time we KDF push focus on growing our strengths again, endurance, speed, and heavy hits.
You realize this will also help the already Overpowered ROM T'Varo :P
With the T'varo, I can easily choose to decloak because I have easy access to Cloak cooldown reduction via Rom OPs, or I can use my Reman to lengthen the time I get the Ambush bonus. Whether or not EBC gets buffed, it doesn't really matter.
There's always the Embassy BOFFs, I guess... but Romulans with Subterfuge and Sup Rom OP are better, anyway, even before adding a bit more with a Rom Covert OP captain.
If you are getting more damage out of transphasic mines than the nukara web mines, something is seriously wrong. Maxed aux + buffs and pattern 3 will oneshot a tac cube with nukara mines.
I slot nukara and transphasics in my rear slots, and the transphasics are basically and afterthought compared to the web mines.
I wonder if flanking will help make up the loss?
I expect not.
That loss of decloak buff is a great mistake imo. If anything the Chang B'rel (and its Rom equivalent) should get it plus a small increase.
The whole decloak damage buff in my reckoning was meant to show the shock value of the target being caught unaware. What more shocking than a decloak for a few seconds to fire and recloak attack. Such a shocking attack may be why the single torpedo launched by the first Chang prototype had such devastating hits on the Enterprise in the movie.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a logical perspective.
The ambush bonus upon decloaking was designed by Cryptic to relate in a way to the element of suprise the cloak provided in the shows. So the premise is that decloakers get the short ambush bonus in order to stay genuine in relation to what was seen in canon, within the limits of game mechanics.
Then we have the ships that have EBC - B'rel and T'varo. Logically speaking, those 2 ships should get constant ambush bonus if they fire from cloak. Because in that case, they're always cloaked so the element of suprise is present at all time. Don't throw bat'leths at me, I have no idea how would this sound as a balancing issue, but logically the T'varo and B'rel should have the ambush buff even when utilizing EBC.
Again, currently there is no difference between being cloaked or decloaking...outside of BOFF traits. With S9, there's going to be a 10% difference for Raiders between being cloaked and decloaking - while for the T'varo it's going to be the same, no difference outside of BOFF traits. Sub providing a boost of +10% is a BOFF matter...so wouldn't the question be whether the Sub boost should be provided whether cloaked or with a decloak?
Course, that wouldn't address the +10% boost that Raiders are getting to Ambush with S9.
PvE, with Flanking, I still don't know exactly how I'm going to flank a Cube, Sphere, or Crystalline Entity.
Having just started doing Crystalline Entity Elite (made Tier 2 Nukara now :rolleyes: ), I haven't gotten #1 yet. Got #3 a couple times now (the last time with my Transphasic setup), and I still slot Commander Sci for dual Grav Wells. I don't think S9 will change that much at all.
Anyway, with S9, I might end up using the Hegh'ta a bit more, but I'll probably just stick to what I currently do with my B'rel, whatever happens with Flanking & the Ambush bonus.
I've tried going mostly Photon, with the Photon bonuses from the Dyson rep. The Voth's use of TT doesn't help Photons at all, though. And when you consider the 40% penetration of Breen Clusters, and the 80% penetration of the Transphasic mines, the extra crits on the Photon/Dyson thing doesn't seem worth it.
PvE, with Flanking, I still don't know exactly how I'm going to flank a Cube, Sphere, or Crystalline Entity.
Having just started doing Crystalline Entity Elite (made Tier 2 Nukara now :rolleyes: ), I haven't gotten #1 yet. Got #3 a couple times now (the last time with my Transphasic setup), and I still slot Commander Sci for dual Grav Wells. I don't think S9 will change that much at all.
Anyway, with S9, I might end up using the Hegh'ta a bit more, but I'll probably just stick to what I currently do with my B'rel, whatever happens with Flanking & the Ambush bonus.
I've tried going mostly Photon, with the Photon bonuses from the Dyson rep. The Voth's use of TT doesn't help Photons at all, though. And when you consider the 40% penetration of Breen Clusters, and the 80% penetration of the Transphasic mines, the extra crits on the Photon/Dyson thing doesn't seem worth it.
For CCE, if there's other competent players in there, it's very hard to place #1 when flying any BOP. The issue is not the BOP's flexibility and firepower. The issue is the BOP's terrible staying power.
- Well played and setup Science Vessels can easily get #1. The CC they do and combined with something like HYT1 or 2 / TS of Dyson Grav Torp, Rom / Omega Plasma, etc can work alot of wonders. They can also do quite a bit of healing, which will be effective when they're running high Aux Power. While most SCI vessels may not have high hullpoints, they have the shields to protect them, and the high Aux Power they run means stuff like ASIF, PH, HE, TSS, etc. will grant very good resists. In short, they have great staying power. I've placed #1 in a Fleet Veranus quite frequently in CCE, and that sucker only has a Lt TAC station. Of all the "STF" like instances, CCE is where Sci Vessels can really, really shine.
- Escorts have more staying power than BOPs. Hell, a number can get away with "turreting" CCE and come out on top. You can't do this in a BOP, you'll die quickly. Or, wiser Escorts will constantly move, strafe. They still have enough survivability to stay in the fight longer and not have to break off and recover as oftenly as a BOP will have to.
- Cruisers and Carriers can do whatever they want. They can turret it, they can circle and broadside. They tend to have alot more survivability and repairs to go alongside the usually high hullpoints and better shield mods than the BOPs. My Cruisers & Carriers in CCE never break off from the fight, unlike a BOP. If the CCE is going to do it's big AOE attack, I don't care... just close to within 1.5km, charge up your resists, have some heals standing by, and pound away at close range. When the AOE is done, move out again and continue pounding away.
Simply put, the BOPs simply do not have the staying power to stay in the fight, to fight close range if need to in CCE. Getting zapped once by the CE is enough to drive off the BOP pilot to recover. Getting zapped once in something like an Odyssey, Bortasqu' or any other Cruiser or Carrier? They'll just laugh, apply some lotion, and keep pounding away. Not so in a BOP.
When I fly in a BOP for CCE, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I won't get #1, unless there's a bunch of idiots. All I can hope for is applying timely CC, support abilities, and good attacks at the proper time. I can do anything that anyone else can do, esp. with my SCI on a B'Rel. But the BOPs just can't take the punishment and must weave in & out, do strafing runs. Anything else will get you killed very quickly in CCE.
When you have a ship targeted, in the targeting UI frame, there's a white arrow that points to the shield facing that you'll currently hit if you fire on them. If you can get that white arrow to point at their aft shield, you're in good shape for flanking.
Comments
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Their damage is boosted by AUX power too, which is *perfect* for the B'rel. Pretty sure no consoles affect them either, so your primary weapons will be unaffected by build trade-offs.
For PvP, I'd certainly go for the web mines as they can be very nasty. For PvE, I'm not sure they would be more effective than transphasic mines, especially when the transphasic mines are coupled with attack pattern beta 3.
a) can 'tac up' via buffs like apo, ect
b) subnuke is a killer addition to an alpha (with a teamate, you can goad them into buffing up then subnuking it all off)
c) you should not need tac initiative as its hit and run, not sustained combat
d) doffed sensor scan can ruin an enemy attackers alpha (as it lowers their energy damage)
For pvp, the sustained combat ability of a tac is wasted on a hit and run build type like a b'rel I feel - whereas the somewhat more situational abilitie of a sci can help ensure a powerful opponent is brought to its knees temporarily
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I will try mines a bit more. With Hot Pursuit, they seem almost useful even when you dont know where the enemy is going... it's just that the engagement range for running mines is so short when you do have uncertainty, and newer enemies are set up to counter your EBC, especially in close. Even the Borg will do it (tractor beams)... and hitting with mines (not laying them) seems to effectively open you up to attack.
If +Stealth resisted being knocked out of Cloak by CPB and such, i would use it.
I can see myself using mines long-term on my T'varo because it has 3 aft. I dont know if i have that luxury in my B'rel for my style of play.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
It was a thing of beauty.
What a rush!
If I could only get that to happen more often.
Nukara benefit from APB3 just as transphasics do, and vastly outperform the transphasics, especially against larger enemies. They're more useful in PVE than PVP because in PvP people are zipping around like fighter pilots these days. In PVE you can guarantee you will net the buggers.
Also, the damage bypasses shields, just like transphasics.
If Hot Pursuit actually made Mines pursue targets faster, I'd like the trait. This is more a PVP issue for me with fast moving ships literally having no worry about mines.
Yeah, mines are darn slow. It's pretty comical in PvE to see the mines zipping along after T'varos or pitiful BoPs, but never quite getting there before I vaporize them.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
What is your Aux Power setting?
Web Mine use?
Put some TAC BUFFs like APA and/or APO, have high Aux Power, decloak, and let loose with DPB3. Web Mines in such a way are devastating. Even TAC Cubes you'll see get hit tremendously hard.
There is a catch though.
If you do the above tactics (or similar), and drop out of cloaks to use the Decloak Dmg Bonus, it's quite deadly, most esp. so if you have a Rom Embassy BOFF with Superior Subterfuge (takes the 15% default dmg bonus on decloak to a whopping 30%, but still only 5 second timer).
If you utilize the EBC and stay cloaked when you drop the mines, you do not benefit from the Decloak Dmg Bonus.
Ships with EBC firing torps or dropping mines while still cloaked do not get any Decloak Dmg Bonus. Which is a pretty severe drawback, IMO, for the B'Rel and T'Varo.
For a B'rel without an Embassy Sub BOFF, the damage bonus (currently on Holodeck) is the same whether you decloak or not: +15%. Sub would add +10%, giving you a +25% Ambush vs. the +15% EBC. It's basically the same for a T'varo, without the need for the Embassy Sub BOFF...access to regular ol' Sub BOFFs, etc, etc, etc.
With the changes on Tribble though, the bonus even without the Embassy Sub BOFF for the B'rel is +25%. So you'd lose out on +10% by not decloaking (+20% by not decloaking with the Sub BOFF).
So currently, the average player loses nothing by not decloaking. The player with a Sub BOFF loses out on +10%. When S9 lands next Tuesday, the T'varo w/Sub will continue to lose out by +10% while the B'rel w/Sub will lose out by +20% for not decloaking.
I expect not.
That loss of decloak buff is a great mistake imo. If anything the Chang B'rel (and its Rom equivalent) should get it plus a small increase.
The whole decloak damage buff in my reckoning was meant to show the shock value of the target being caught unaware. What more shocking than a decloak for a few seconds to fire and recloak attack. Such a shocking attack may be why the single torpedo launched by the first Chang prototype had such devastating hits on the Enterprise in the movie.
R.I.P
I'll ***** about in in the General Forum. Come and watch, I'm sure I'll make it flameworthy!
It may well be a fight worth the struggle. We have lost much in the interest of "balance", its time we KDF push focus on growing our strengths again, endurance, speed, and heavy hits.
R.I.P
You realize this will also help the already Overpowered ROM T'Varo :P
There's always the Embassy BOFFs, I guess... but Romulans with Subterfuge and Sup Rom OP are better, anyway, even before adding a bit more with a Rom Covert OP captain.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
I slot nukara and transphasics in my rear slots, and the transphasics are basically and afterthought compared to the web mines.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a logical perspective.
The ambush bonus upon decloaking was designed by Cryptic to relate in a way to the element of suprise the cloak provided in the shows. So the premise is that decloakers get the short ambush bonus in order to stay genuine in relation to what was seen in canon, within the limits of game mechanics.
Then we have the ships that have EBC - B'rel and T'varo. Logically speaking, those 2 ships should get constant ambush bonus if they fire from cloak. Because in that case, they're always cloaked so the element of suprise is present at all time. Don't throw bat'leths at me, I have no idea how would this sound as a balancing issue, but logically the T'varo and B'rel should have the ambush buff even when utilizing EBC.
Course, that wouldn't address the +10% boost that Raiders are getting to Ambush with S9.
But are we talking S9 or are we talking now?
Having just started doing Crystalline Entity Elite (made Tier 2 Nukara now :rolleyes: ), I haven't gotten #1 yet. Got #3 a couple times now (the last time with my Transphasic setup), and I still slot Commander Sci for dual Grav Wells. I don't think S9 will change that much at all.
Anyway, with S9, I might end up using the Hegh'ta a bit more, but I'll probably just stick to what I currently do with my B'rel, whatever happens with Flanking & the Ambush bonus.
I've tried going mostly Photon, with the Photon bonuses from the Dyson rep. The Voth's use of TT doesn't help Photons at all, though. And when you consider the 40% penetration of Breen Clusters, and the 80% penetration of the Transphasic mines, the extra crits on the Photon/Dyson thing doesn't seem worth it.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
For CCE, if there's other competent players in there, it's very hard to place #1 when flying any BOP. The issue is not the BOP's flexibility and firepower. The issue is the BOP's terrible staying power.
- Well played and setup Science Vessels can easily get #1. The CC they do and combined with something like HYT1 or 2 / TS of Dyson Grav Torp, Rom / Omega Plasma, etc can work alot of wonders. They can also do quite a bit of healing, which will be effective when they're running high Aux Power. While most SCI vessels may not have high hullpoints, they have the shields to protect them, and the high Aux Power they run means stuff like ASIF, PH, HE, TSS, etc. will grant very good resists. In short, they have great staying power. I've placed #1 in a Fleet Veranus quite frequently in CCE, and that sucker only has a Lt TAC station. Of all the "STF" like instances, CCE is where Sci Vessels can really, really shine.
- Escorts have more staying power than BOPs. Hell, a number can get away with "turreting" CCE and come out on top. You can't do this in a BOP, you'll die quickly. Or, wiser Escorts will constantly move, strafe. They still have enough survivability to stay in the fight longer and not have to break off and recover as oftenly as a BOP will have to.
- Cruisers and Carriers can do whatever they want. They can turret it, they can circle and broadside. They tend to have alot more survivability and repairs to go alongside the usually high hullpoints and better shield mods than the BOPs. My Cruisers & Carriers in CCE never break off from the fight, unlike a BOP. If the CCE is going to do it's big AOE attack, I don't care... just close to within 1.5km, charge up your resists, have some heals standing by, and pound away at close range. When the AOE is done, move out again and continue pounding away.
Simply put, the BOPs simply do not have the staying power to stay in the fight, to fight close range if need to in CCE. Getting zapped once by the CE is enough to drive off the BOP pilot to recover. Getting zapped once in something like an Odyssey, Bortasqu' or any other Cruiser or Carrier? They'll just laugh, apply some lotion, and keep pounding away. Not so in a BOP.
When I fly in a BOP for CCE, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I won't get #1, unless there's a bunch of idiots. All I can hope for is applying timely CC, support abilities, and good attacks at the proper time. I can do anything that anyone else can do, esp. with my SCI on a B'Rel. But the BOPs just can't take the punishment and must weave in & out, do strafing runs. Anything else will get you killed very quickly in CCE.
There's a little arrow on the target info showing you which facing you are facing.
The pathetic thing is, despite all my time playing STO, I never noticed this
Heh, I never noticed it either. Wasn't until this March 12th, 2014 post by Hawk...
...that it was a case of going, "Oh..."
Don't feel bad, I also only realized that exists after this whole 'flanking' discussion came up. It was one of those noob moments. :P