I have a map question for... maybe Tacofangs?

twg042370

Of course maybe his job doesn't cover this: I was playing Temporal Ambassador the other day and a thought struck me about the Enterprise C as I was walking the gangplank.

"Is this a full model or just a facade? If it is a facade, is it to scale or is it some very well done forced perspective?"

And that's why I took to the forums to ask whichever Dev sticks the ships in the background. I'm willing to bet that the ships in ESD's shipyard window are all forced perspective. I think this would also be a nice look behind the curtain...

misterde3

Have a look at this post of his:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8583511&postcount=40

and highlight the part after spoiler in the middle and I think you will find your answer.;)

tacofangs

Well, you asked the right foodstuffs. I built that mission with Charles Gray.

The Ent C is a scaled up version of the player's ship. No forced perspective. We were concerned that it wouldn't hold up well enough at that scale. It definitely loses some flash when scaled up so much, but it seemed to do well enough that we didn't need to rebuild it for that mission.

ESD's Docking Bay is a bit of trickery. Whoever built it originally didn't build it accurately, or to the right scale. Usually the ship right outside the window is a full scale model of whatever ship (again, scaled up from the player ship), but the ships in the back of the bay have been scaled down slightly to exaggerate the distance.

dontdrunkimshoot

tacofangs wrote: »

Well, you asked the right foodstuffs. I built that mission with Charles Gray.

The Ent C is a scaled up version of the player's ship. No forced perspective. We were concerned that it wouldn't hold up well enough at that scale. It definitely loses some flash when scaled up so much, but it seemed to do well enough that we didn't need to rebuild it for that mission.

ESD's Docking Bay is a bit of trickery. Whoever built it originally didn't build it accurately, or to the right scale. Usually the ship right outside the window is a full scale model of whatever ship (again, scaled up from the player ship), but the ships in the back of the bay have been scaled down slightly to exaggerate the distance.

right now the vesta is like twice the size it should be, compared to the other reduced in size ship in there trying to make the dock look bigger then it is

ransom2375

tacofangs wrote: »

The Ent C is a scaled up version of the player's ship. No forced perspective. We were concerned that it wouldn't hold up well enough at that scale. It definitely loses some flash when scaled up so much, but it seemed to do well enough that we didn't need to rebuild it for that mission.

Everytime i walked towards the ship i was in awe!
One of my favorite STO missions and moments to this day.
The Enterprise-C model itself is very detailed and nice. Kudos to the ship artist as well.

Another great moment was the spacewalk on the outside of Deep Space Nine, and the recent flight between the Dyson Solar Station. I love those moments when we get a sense of how big those ships & stations really are.

twg042370

Well, that is interesting. Thanks. It scaled up pretty nicely. I think the flat white of Federation ships helped keep it looking solid

purplegamer

ransom2375 wrote: »

Everytime i walked towards the ship i was in awe!
One of my favorite STO missions and moments to this day.
The Enterprise-C model itself is very detailed and nice. Kudos to the ship artist as well.

Another great moment was the spacewalk on the outside of Deep Space Nine, and the recent flight between the Dyson Solar Station. I love those moments when we get a sense of how big those ships & stations really are.

Same. Walking down that long corridor with the massive C looming over and ahead, is one of the most awe-inspiring moments in STO.

twg042370

The same question crossed my mind about DS9 in Boldly They Rode last night. Is it also a full model?

tacofangs

There are parts of DS9 (the parts you walk on) that were rebuilt for ground scale, with more detail and different textures. The rest of the station (vista areas) I *think* is the normal station scaled up. Could be mistaken, it's been a while since I've been in that map.

azurianstar

tacofangs wrote: »

There are parts of DS9 (the parts you walk on) that were rebuilt for ground scale, with more detail and different textures. The rest of the station (vista areas) I *think* is the normal station scaled up. Could be mistaken, it's been a while since I've been in that map.

So when are we getting the missing parts of the station. Like the Security Office, Assay Office, the Holosuits, and the Infirmary?

BTW, ESD on Spheres of Influence still isn't fixed. :P

jeffel82

azurianstar wrote: »

So when are we getting the missing parts of the station. Like the Security Office, Assay Office, the Holosuits, and the Infirmary?

Tacofangs indulged us in this very conversation earlier today in the Art forum.

The short version: he agrees that the DS9 interior needs love, he'd be happy to do it, but it's not on the horizon, and ESD needs love more badly and will be done first.

markhawkman

tacofangs wrote: »

There are parts of DS9 (the parts you walk on) that were rebuilt for ground scale, with more detail and different textures. The rest of the station (vista areas) I *think* is the normal station scaled up. Could be mistaken, it's been a while since I've been in that map.

I noticed that the Foundry DS9 ground map has geometry for much of the station exterior, but the geometry isn't something you can walk on.

phantomeight

This is why I use demorecord when I want to really check out a map. You can pause the recording or let it run and just skywalk with the camera. I've done this with the docking area of ESD, it was amazing.

blevok

azurianstar wrote: »

So when are we getting the missing parts of the station. Like the Security Office, Assay Office, the Holosuits, and the Infirmary?

BTW, ESD on Spheres of Influence still isn't fixed. :P

there's a lot more missing than that. i think DS9 should be an "adventure zone", with a fully explorable interior. if it ever gets fixed, i'd finally "love" STO.

tacofangs

markhawkman wrote: »

I noticed that the Foundry DS9 ground map has geometry for much of the station exterior, but the geometry isn't something you can walk on.

Calculating collision on triangles that no one will ever (reasonably) reach, is wasteful. We turn off collision for things we don't intend people to walk on. That's why Jumping all over and finding glitches outside is so cringeworthy for us.

azurianstar

jeffel82 wrote: »

Tacofangs indulged us in this very conversation earlier today in the Art forum.

The short version: he agrees that the DS9 interior needs love, he'd be happy to do it, but it's not on the horizon, and ESD needs love more badly and will be done first.

Well won't argue with him there. ESD does need a good revamp. I got some ESD concept art I'm working on of a new Atrium he might be interested in.

blevok wrote: »

there's a lot more missing than that. i think DS9 should be an "adventure zone", with a fully explorable interior. if it ever gets fixed, i'd finally "love" STO.

Fully explorable interior is a rather big request.

But in a way I could see DS9 as a type of adventure zone, where certain areas might get some kind of scripted event. Like you're in one of the Cargobays and stumble upon a cartel operation and they start attacking you. Or you are walking down a hallway and asked to help take care of the Vols in the Jefferie's Tubes.

robdmc

tacofangs wrote: »

That's why Jumping all over and finding glitches outside is so cringeworthy for us.

How cringeworthy are we talking about? If a player likes to explore in unintended areas what is the harm?

tacofangs

There is mostly no actual harm. If you get far enough away you can start causing some server problems, but that's really difficult without flight.

We, the artists, hate it, because it's like looking behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain. We put all this effort into making something incredibly cool for you, and then you run the other way, ignoring that hard work, and instead looking at the 2x4's holding the whole thing up.

wilbor2

Taco u cant ask my cat not to jump everywere :-P

artan42

tacofangs wrote: »

We, the artists, hate it, because it's like looking behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain. We put all this effort into making something incredibly cool for you, and then you run the other way, ignoring that hard work, and instead looking at the 2x4's holding the whole thing up.

There is a really simple answer to this. Build the complet galaxy. See not no one can get 'outside'.


:P.

markhawkman

tacofangs wrote: »

There is mostly no actual harm. If you get far enough away you can start causing some server problems, but that's really difficult without flight.

We, the artists, hate it, because it's like looking behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain. We put all this effort into making something incredibly cool for you, and then you run the other way, ignoring that hard work, and instead looking at the 2x4's holding the whole thing up.

Well... my curiousity demands it. :P

It's like Alice and the rabbit hole... how deep DOES the rabbit hole go? :P

tacofangs

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15197791&postcount=7


And I understand that, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to jump all over the place, and find holes, and get outside with glitches.

I'm just asking that you understand that it drives US NUTS!

twg042370

tacofangs wrote: »

I'm just asking that you understand that it drives US NUTS!

"Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry."

― Terry Pratchett

foundrelic

wilbor2 wrote: »

Taco u cant ask my cat not to jump everywere :-P

Next patch is going to include the "Spray bottle of SCRAM!" effective on Caitians and THeir KDF cousins, causes them to flee in the opposite direction for three seconds at full speed then stop and groom themselves for forty seconds.

robdmc

tacofangs wrote: »

There is mostly no actual harm. If you get far enough away you can start causing some server problems, but that's really difficult without flight.

We, the artists, hate it, because it's like looking behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain. We put all this effort into making something incredibly cool for you, and then you run the other way, ignoring that hard work, and instead looking at the 2x4's holding the whole thing up.

This may sound strange but have you ever considered putting a couple of odd ball things (Easter eggs) on the other side of the curtain. It is a time honored tradition.

tacofangs wrote: »

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15197791&postcount=7

If you want to see behind the curtain on the show watch ds9 where Worf and Garrek get in a fight on the defiant. There is a glimpse where they knock the doors of the jefferies tube in behind the set..

markhawkman

tacofangs wrote: »

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15197791&postcount=7


And I understand that, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to jump all over the place, and find holes, and get outside with glitches.

I'm just asking that you understand that it drives US NUTS!

As a Foudnry author, I understand that people will do anything and everything.... It's just life. :P and yes it can be frustrating to idiot proof things.