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Future plans for reputation?

irishxpirishxp Member Posts: 72 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Reputation System
Hi all! :)
I seem to remember that the Dyson Reputation was the benchmark of a revamp of the reputation system.
Do I remember correctly?

If it is the case, does anybody know how that benchmark went (from developers point of view I mean)?
Can I expect a revamp of the other older reputation?

I don't know what is the general sentiment towards the Dyson reputation but I like it very much: I don't have much time to play and that commendation token is a blessing.
I can spend a little amount of time doing something for my commendation and then get the rest of the time to do what I want: may it be STF or a foundry mission!

Well, I suppose everyone has a personal opinion and I just wanted to state mine.
What i really would like to know, as I already said is if I can reasonably expect a revamp of the old reputations :)
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Comments

  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Afaik the Dyson Rep was considered a "failure" (my own words) by the new EP (Stephan D'Angelo), because it was too easy and didn't take long enough :

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1009971

    => wouldn't count on a Revamp, but who knows ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • edited February 2014
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  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Afaik the Dyson Rep was considered a "failure" (my own words) by the new EP (Stephan D'Angelo), because it was too easy and didn't take long enough :

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1009971

    => wouldn't count on a Revamp, but who knows ...

    Pitifully. So we can expect another nukara instead if another Dyson.
    valoreah wrote: »
    I'd love for him to grind these out on a dozen toons and then come and tell everyone how much fun they are.

    I know how you feel. It seems generally that the devs want us only to play one char, there is very little support for multi - character - playing.
    They hurt the selfie or their income at least as much as us, if they would be any smart they would want every one to play at least 3 chars...

    But i admit, dyson may have been a little too easy.
  • irishxpirishxp Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    I'd love for him to grind these out on a dozen toons and then come and tell everyone how much fun they are.

    Heheh! This :P
  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    But i admit, dyson may have been a little too easy.

    I agree to some degree with this as well. I'd say the optimal one would be the Omega rep, to me.

    I just leveled a Fed Eng and started on all reps simultaneously. I've already hit T5 rep on Dyson just today and still have 6 days to go on the others.
  • no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Meh, I still consider the Omega rep the benchmark. In terms of flexibility and value for time spent, nothing beats the elite stfs when I can do 3 of them in 20 minutes, have enough marks for a whole weeks worth of rep, and dilithium and gear to boot. Compared to Dyson I have to log in every day for the daily commendation or use the awful conversion rate of 350 marks for 5 days of rep. Sure, the battlezone has great dilithium rewards too but between leechers and finding one with a good mix of people, it's much more of a hassle. Plus, the borg and maco sets are way more useful than any of the Dyson gear. The only good thing about Dyson is the free box for filling up the rep project and the removal of the commodities requirement, that's about it.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    As has been mentioned, the Dyson reputation was deemed a failure because their 'metrics' indicate people are already finished with it and they want something to keep people playing until the next update(which may have had an influence in the anniversary event being structured into the event reputation in such a drawn-out way).

    That said, I disagree with that conclusion. I still have characters that I'm working on the Dyson Reputation, and I'm still having fun with the battleground - even with all the tagging nonsense/drama. Furthermore, I am working on it, here and there, with ALL of my characters. I keep playing all of my characters because of the Dyson Rep, and thus consider what I might want to purchase for each of them.

    By comparison, I have two characters at tier 5 Nukara.. the rest are at 0(the only reason the two of them are at Rank 5 is because of Risa birds - I cannot stomach the Nukara grind in its current incarnation). I haven't progressed my Omega reputations on my characters in probably half a year - some have finished it before then, some are halfway through it. Most of my characters are either finished with New Romulus Reputation or nearly there - solely because I enjoy doing the Tau Dewa (space combat oriented-)Patrols so much.

    If the Dyson Rep was as Draconic as the Nukara Reputation was/is, I highly doubt I would be playing the game nearly as much. Very possible I wouldn't have picked up the Mogh, and probably wouldn't be currently waiting for an overdue Zen promotion to sink some more money into the game before the Dyson Ships are released.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,376 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think the next one will take place on Nimbus in a new VA area.
    zx2t8tuj4i10.png
    Thank you for the Typhoon!
  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    imo I preferred the speed of the dyson rep because I have 8 characters. the sponsorship token is an added boost to people who grind more than 1 character.

    although they want a winning format to go with. dyson is too fast according to the devs, so omega must be close to spot on then. while romulan and nukara are way behind omega.

    my only concern would be that if they made all grinds the same they run the risk of becoming even more tedious
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    irishxp wrote: »
    Hi all! :)
    I seem to remember that the Dyson Reputation was the benchmark of a revamp of the reputation system.
    Do I remember correctly?

    I don't know about "the benchmark of," but it was said back at its introduction that if it were well-received, they'd look at reworking all the others in a similar way.

    And then it was very, very well-received.

    And then the Eepho (Emergency Executive Producer HOlogram) took over.

    Most of the buzz since then seems to have been "The players are happy, we can't have this. Moar grind!!!!1!!!"

    Personally I'm just waiting to see how long before they announce Dyson rep being reworked to suit the Eepho's vision of grinding day and night. Wouldn't be surprised to see removal of the sponsorship tokens as well, but I'm a grouch like that.


    "In STO- that's the sound of the grind, working on the chain gaa-aaa-aaang..."
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    szerontzur wrote: »
    As has been mentioned, the Dyson reputation was deemed a failure because their 'metrics' indicate people are already finished with it and they want something to keep people playing until the next update(which may have had an influence in the anniversary event being structured into the event reputation in such a drawn-out way).
    Sadly, their metrics can't tell if we rush through content because we enjoy it, or if we are working slowly on it because we hate it, and take our time.
    I know I hated Nukara, and really took my sweet time. Dyson was fine. New Romulus was bad, the eppoh thing was boring. Omega is the best.

    One of the biggest problem they never solved, is the very low reward vs time/difficulty for a lot of the reputation queued mission. For example, azure nebula. The reward is pathetic AND random. The vault ensnared is no better, the mission is quite long, and not so easy with PUGS, yet the reward is low. So people do CCE instead.
    Yet, they continue that way.

    I think an example on how bad it can be is found on New Romulus, the adventure map. There are random plants/rocks you can collect. When you have 10 of them, you are awarded Romulan Marks : 1 mark for 10 items. Now, either Cryptic forget to remove the placeholder reward, or if they are trolling us.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • irishxpirishxp Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ok, I sadly understand :(

    Well, not that sadly :P
    Maybe Dyson Rep is a little too friendly: I consider myself too much of a "casual" gamer to have a strong opinion on how these things work or how they should work, none the less I see the problem of creating content that get burned too fast... I suppose we all aknowledge the need to grind, it's that just I don't like to grind that much.

    The best solution would be to find what can be considered a reasonable amount of grind.
    I know I don't have any power nor any way to influence how things will evolve, sometime you just talk about something because you like it and you care for it :)
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Other than the differences in marks, the main thing that Dyson had was that the main, long project gave 2500 rep instead of the 2000 rep. The mini project gave less than the other mini ones (800) but you could run more than one in a 20 hour period. Playing with those may be a good way to "slow down".

    I think the mechanics on the marks/commendations are a great way to make rep not seem more fun and less like a chore, but playing with the project rewards I'd have no problem with. Last thing I want is to have more things like Nukara (which I still have yet to finish on any character), Romulan and Omega reps. Those kinda suck.
  • odstparker#7820 odstparker Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Personally, I would be so grateful if they revamped every reputation track to be like the Dyson one. Complete a single mission per day and then go and get some marks to complete both reputation missions. Instead of going out and finding the cheapest place to buy commodities, simply put in Energy Credits.

    It's SO MUCH easier. I went back to my Klingon to start the Omega rep and got so pissed off when I remembered how much of a grind it was compared to the Dyson track.
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It would be in Cryptic's best interest to keep the grind in place.

    Let's imagine the next season comes with no grind at all. If this were the case it would be played by everyone intensely for a few weeks at most, and then everyone will get bored and abandon the place. Without the grind to prompt repeating the content there is no incentive.

    Cryptic cannot keep up with the demand for new things to do. The grind is there to keep players logging in and ticking over as they develop new content.

    Long story short, I wouldn't hold your breath for changes.
  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    coupaholic wrote: »
    It would be in Cryptic's best interest to keep the grind in place.

    Let's imagine the next season comes with no grind at all. If this were the case it would be played by everyone intensely for a few weeks at most, and then everyone will get bored and abandon the place. Without the grind to prompt repeating the content there is no incentive.

    Cryptic cannot keep up with the demand for new things to do. The grind is there to keep players logging in and ticking over as they develop new content.

    Long story short, I wouldn't hold your breath for changes.


    But throw in too much grind and the non-hardcore folks say forget this and move on to their old favourites.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    coupaholic wrote: »
    It would be in Cryptic's best interest to keep the grind in place.

    Let's imagine the next season comes with no grind at all. If this were the case it would be played by everyone intensely for a few weeks at most, and then everyone will get bored and abandon the place. Without the grind to prompt repeating the content there is no incentive.

    Cryptic cannot keep up with the demand for new things to do. The grind is there to keep players logging in and ticking over as they develop new content.

    Long story short, I wouldn't hold your breath for changes.

    Of course they need the grind.
    People need to have something to do in the game to keep them playing. And thats their interest.

    Problem is, its poorly handled.
    The reputation is the only real progression we have right now, and its a good concept in its BASICS.
    But 2 problems:

    1. the grind effects different players differently.

    Some people just have one characters, other up to 30. Obviously 30 are extreme but still.
    The ones with only 1 character are done "relatively" fast.
    The ones with multiple characters... not. But since they have to start the same over and over again at almost ZERO, they burn out.
    Sponsorship helps here, but its not enough.

    But the result is: The Metrics show people are finished to soon, since the 1 character players are = more grind.
    The others complain about to much grind, rightfully, because for their play style IT IS to much.

    So the current execution handles this very very poorly.
    And making it that difficult for people with multiple Chars IS NOT in Cryptics best interest.

    If they "force" us into just one "MAIN", they loose out on sales. If I just play fed, I'll hardly buy Romulan or KDF ships. I'll hardly buy additional ship slots, bo sloty, expand my DO roster on different alts ect.

    2. Limited content circles.

    This game has technically so much more to offer. But foundry mission, mission replays, exploration ect just do not pay out.
    If we want progress we need to do the rep missions, we are locked in a small circle of content, and, in case of Nukara for example, very poorly designed content.
    Cryptic PLEASE USE YOUR F*** GAME! There is no point locking us into that fraction!! (but I have written a long post about that particularly linked in my signature)
  • artanisenartanisen Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    still waiting for them to add bridge extensions, bridge enhancement's,
    or bridge unlocks with reputation system.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    dirlettia wrote: »
    But throw in too much grind and the non-hardcore folks say forget this and move on to their old favourites.
    Nah, the non-hardcore peeps simply won't bother with maxing all 19 reps simultaneously. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Afaik the Dyson Rep was considered a "failure" (my own words) by the new EP (Stephan D'Angelo), because it was too easy and didn't take long enough :

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1009971

    => wouldn't count on a Revamp, but who knows ...

    Just shows you that the Devs don't seem to be playing their own game...
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Nah, the non-hardcore peeps simply won't bother with maxing all 19 reps simultaneously. :P
    More or less what I ended up doing. Picked a rep and worked only on that one. Only exception was Dyson, since that one was easy enough to do with others at the same time.
  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    thay8472 wrote: »
    I think the next one will take place on Nimbus in a new VA area.

    More likely is that it'll be an Undine Rep. Or an expanded Task Force Omega Rep to include a new set of anti-Undine gear.
    You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
    StarTrekFirstContactBorgBattleonetumblr_lln3v6QoT31qzrtqe.gif
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Personally, I don't think that the Dyson Sphere Rep, itself, is any worse than the others in terms of grind, but doing the Dyson Sphere is much more engaging than all of them. I liked going to do the ground war on Dyson, while the others seem more work than fun.

    Especially, when you see your hard work fighting the Voth taking over a zone or the whole area. I actually feel like I did something on that map. When the new XP is now stating that the Rep is a failure, it just shows that he probably did a quick walkthrough and not actually leveled through the rep.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Omega rep is a ridiculous grind to me.

    Elite STFs? Okay, I guess, if you are in a fleet. Going to Deferi and running those ground missions is painful, and I get fleet marks that I don't have any use for to go with the few Omega marks.
    Space? I am feeling like I may try some of the regular STFs, but I have no idea how successful a given PUG will be or how long I may end up waiting in a queue.

    The Nukara grind isn't much different mechanically, but the ground missions offer more rewards and certainly seem faster.

    I have managed to accumulate a fair bit of Romulan marks, but this is in part due to the fact that I haven't felt compelled to do any of the projects once I got the rep maxxed out.
    Still, the space daily gives me some marks and there are more to be had if I want to go to the planet and run missions there.

    I think that Dyson is good, they just need to maybe tune it a little. Have the commendation award less rep, or award a good deal less rep but put it on a 6 or 12 hour timer. Something like that.

    But the ability to run some Doff missions for marks, combined with a variety of different space and ground missions for marks is great.

    More ways for players to get marks.

    The more like Dyson (and less like Omega) they can make rep systems the better, to me.

    Heck, Dyson could award marks at half the rate it currently does and I would still like it more than Omega.
  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    God no. The whole reputation needs to go. Seriously.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cyckathcyckath Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Dyson was definitely too easy, mild paranoia attack when I first saw the implants but nothing like the total utter agorny of Omega. So glad I pretty much finished the sets for Omega when Roxy first appeared.
  • irishxpirishxp Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I feel like supporting the ones that believe that with a bit of tuning of the rewards and cooldowns, Dyson would be the most balanced system :)
  • madmartinmanmadmartinman Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Omega rep is a ridiculous grind to me.

    [...]

    The more like Dyson (and less like Omega) they can make rep systems the better, to me.

    Heck, Dyson could award marks at half the rate it currently does and I would still like it more than Omega.

    Finally, someone who sees things as I do, :D

    The whole rep system feels tagged on, without any attempt to keep the system balanced to attract the hardcore grinders and casual players alike. After a few runs on Nukara and the range of rewards that you can get from those missions (or more likely an inventory full of Armoured Environment Suits, :rolleyes:), the thought of hitting the Defera Invasion Zone for missions that reward Omega Marks in single figures makes me seriously consider jacking the whole thing in.

    Oh, and before the STF guys jump on me, let me state rather baldly that as it stands, I have ZERO interest in the PvE missions right now and I can't imagine that I'm alone - this stems from the fact that there are only a few PvE instances for Nukara and Romulus, as compared to the large number for Omega! Forgive me, but this seems a little biased.

    Admittedly, I haven't reached Dyson yet but the range of comments regarding its mechanics seems to indicate that a lot of people quite like it, which leads me to a personal belief that the rep system should be brought to an even keel regarding the mechanics - each one (Dyson, Nukara, Omega and Dyson as well as any others Cryptic may have up their sleeves) should have a similar approach to marks: a repeatable daily with a modest reward akin to Tau Dewa Patrol, the ground invasion zone with repeatable missions of varying difficulty with a lower reward but not so low that the thought of a grind is enough to make you log off in disgust and a reasonably even spread of PvE instances for each. </rant>

    ... Okay, that's my spleen vented for now, :P
  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    As far as obtaining the rep goes, I will be patient, I'll get the rewards when i get them

    The important party is HOW! the Dyson ground zone and space/atmosphere Adventure zone, with its on map missions and DOFF assignments rewarding Marks was a lot more Fun to play for me than STFs PvEs , and the primary reason is the replayability vs the Repeatability , the STFs are simply repetative to an unenjoyable degree for me, But the Dyson adventure zone has enough content dotted around to get a more varied Experience

    As long as the process of obtaining the Marks is enjoyable, the question of how long it takes is not all that important to me
    solar_approach_by_chaos_sandwhich-d74kjft.png


    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
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