It's worth mentioning that someone heard Gecko mention targeting computers for escorts (presumably for raptors too and some other ships) in the last podcast. I can't find it personally but it do trust the source.
I forgot about that - I asked in the other thread about that if it was in the first part and not the second art...cause I went through that second part play-by-play during my WTFUXXOR moment - lol. Don't know if that got answered there or not. Guess I could look...but that requires having some caffeine and nicotine - instead of doing this one eye closed stream of conscious stuff, eh?
While I do not think escorts need anything special currently, they are not the biggest DPS anymore.
A2B with techinicians is a broken skill that makes a BFW cruiser utterly the best in DPS. They even put my 12k dps escort to shame with it.
Though at least the technicians cost a lot on the exchange, so this broken #### is not as popular as it would be otherwise.
On the other hand, battlecruiser are now very good with Dual heavy cannons and cruiser commands. (Klingons can be happy finally)
Highest dps ship at the moment is the Scimitar which is NOT a cruiser or an escort, I believe they class it as a dreadnought. Sure it's not far from a cruiser but I think it would be more accurate to call it a destroyer with an extra fore weapon.
Incidentally did anyone else notice how similar the Scimitar is to the vet destroyer?
As for A2B, most of the highest dps people do not use it to get the high numbers, reason being you lose out on the nukara T4 offense passive boost as well as the extra damage from AMP.
Escorts with cannons are capable of upto 34k dps, that's in a team similar to the Scimitars, so if you're not getting over 12k you have the unfortunate privilege to be in the same group as me, I just suck with escorts and cannons
Escorts with cannons are capable of upto 34k dps, that's in a team similar to the Scimitars, so if you're not getting over 12k you have the unfortunate privilege to be in the same group as me, I just suck with escorts and cannons
I wouldn't worry about it too much. My cannon build on my escort usually sits at 16k in ise. I have gotten up to 24k in cse. This is with the FAE. I'm thinking about the Risian ship for the lt cmdr eng station. Wish there was a ship with a lt cmder eng with 5 tac consoles.
Highest dps ship at the moment is the Scimitar which is NOT a cruiser or an escort, I believe they class it as a dreadnought. Sure it's not far from a cruiser but I think it would be more accurate to call it a destroyer with an extra fore weapon.
Incidentally did anyone else notice how similar the Scimitar is to the vet destroyer?
As for A2B, most of the highest dps people do not use it to get the high numbers, reason being you lose out on the nukara T4 offense passive boost as well as the extra damage from AMP.
Its a dreadnought warbird... Its turn rate is only that of a sovie, about the same hp too. Also I think when they do make the fed dreadnought a fleet version they will add a extra for weapon minus one aft and maybe a hanger and a lt com uni. Along with the separation console the gal-x might become a beast to be reckoned with.
Its extremely similar but the destroyer has better turn and 2 less weapons no hanger. Also less shields, which is why you don't see it very often I want to play my vet destroyer more often but, they need to buff raptors and then kling and rom vet ships before I'll put my foot in it. Which is a shame.
Yes A2B isn't a the best for dps in all honesty just the easiest to attain high dps to do when you not very skilled at the game.
There are ships with 5 tact slots and ability to get lt com in engi but they don't exist on fed side yet.
My escorts range from 12-10 k average dps (For all the mission, not when they are spiking) and I can get an eng in a battlecruiser up to 10k average dps.
But Aux 2 Bat ships make my ships feel as useless as a rainbow boat with mark X whites :rolleyes:
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
That's quite enough with the flaming already. I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, but I am pretty sure this isn't the way to do it.
And that stuff on the ACC overflow and hinted targetting computers is interesting. It implies that the entire ACC/DEF relation is on the table for revision; there definitely is great potential to make that system less convoluted. I do wonder, though, if they'll just revamp the entire system, in favour of a new one, or just tweak the existing mechanics.
Trolls will be trolls. They get off on trying to make others miserable.
But back on topic: Yeah, it's interesting what Geko hinted at. But it's also unlikely. Escorts are already pretty balanced, and it will be difficult to buff/adjust them and still keep it fair.
My escorts range from 12-10 k average dps (For all the mission, not when they are spiking) and I can get an eng in a battlecruiser up to 10k average dps.
But Aux 2 Bat ships make my ships feel as useless as a rainbow boat with mark X whites :rolleyes:
It's ok, I know your pain. I run a non-aux2bat cruiser, but I don't feel bad because mine can actually draw aggro away from those aux2bat ships due to my setup. So what if my DPS is half of theirs? It doesn't matter. I can tank soooo much more damage than they can because I have aux heals. Which I use. Copiously.
I think I was in an ESTF once with jkname, and said person asked me what I picked a fight with because my damage taken was more than the entire rest of the team combined (around ~1 500k damage taken, ~ twice that healed). I was even holding threat so well, that there was a T'varo in there whose damage taken was so low, they could have gone the entire STF without healing and never died (IE their damage taken was less than their hull strength).
YOU CAN STILL BE USEFUL!!! DON'T BE ASHAMED OF YOUR NON-AUX2BATNESS!!!
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Report them to a Moderator instead, please.
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well the main idea seems to be that the tanking hit a2b cruiser builds is disproportional to the dps gained, making escorts caps feel less useful? dudes rly? have you tried a useless sci???
well a solution would be not a nerf or a buff, but just a change.
weap power = more weap dmg
shield power = more shield regen
*the change instead of gaining 35% resistance at 125, u get a little bit for every point over... 25/50
engine power = obviously speed, turn rate
and also a side effect of this when moving u get the evasion stat to be harder to hit
aux power = this effect some heals, buffs, cc skills
*here's the big change, make it affect all skills! and also targeting.
not as in no aux u cant use skills, but as in modifier, aux is supposed to be for scanners, repairs, buffs, heals, drains etc, right now only a few sci and even less engi skills are affected by it.
more aux:
better sensors - less misses/can actually detect some1 cloaked getting on u'r TRIBBLE to spike for example (this would also require starship sensors not just high aux), less chance to miss. Don't fuss, if on a escort with cannons, u'll want to get even at less then 1km and this isn't a nerf or buff, if u'r flying beams and want to stay away tho, this will help every1.
all heals, resistance, buffs (and yes i do include attack patterns in this), cc skills, drains, subsystem targeting - better tanking or better dmg or better cc depending on which you combine.
just take out the alpha/omega pattern proc on sci dmg skills alrdy, its been 2 years.... a number of them were nerfed useless because of this, and this idea wn't work otherwise.
No/low aux power, would only mean less or no bonus, but a base stat would still proc with the skill.
how would this help?
well a2b would mean no bonuses from aux power to skills so beast dps but definitely lower defence on cruisers. higher power in shield will help little on dmg mitigation, but high heals and buffs (with extra stats from aux) is what a tank would make.
this will also help bring back sci, with a few tweaks and a 2nd deflector it just might be helpful again
finally tacs would get a bit of bonus on their patterns (i'm suggesting more dmg i must be crazy...) but actually not rly. either lover the base stat or make the cd longer on patterns, then add aux power bonus (this is not a nerf or buff, just redistributing stats to help you make diff builds.
depending on build, and how you shuffle power u'd get either insane spikes with lower survivability or better survivability with more even dmg output, while the dps of both builds over the time of a battle would be the same.
You can't have both, the whole point of the escort is to be able to cram every bit of dmg in the smallest amount of time on a priority enemy, with the downside that u can not sustain that dmg output all the time.
*snip*
You can't have both, the whole point of the escort is to be able to cram every bit of dmg in the smallest amount of time on a priority enemy, with the downside that u can not sustain that dmg output all the time.
I would comment on the rest of your post, but atm, it's too much for how tired I am. So I will forego that and simply comment on this last part, more specifically the part I highlighted.
With an escort, you CAN sustain that massive damage spike. Just cycle CRF/CSV and APBs (for PvE) or APO (for PvP). An escort has a massive alpha and very VERY strong sustain if you build it right. I don't know why people seem to think escorts are for spike only with no sustainable DPS, when escorts I build can spike hard, and SUSTAIN said spike once I start cycling everything.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I would comment on the rest of your post, but atm, it's too much for how tired I am. So I will forego that and simply comment on this last part, more specifically the part I highlighted.
With an escort, you CAN sustain that massive damage spike. Just cycle CRF/CSV and APBs (for PvE) or APO (for PvP). An escort has a massive alpha and very VERY strong sustain if you build it right. I don't know why people seem to think escorts are for spike only with no sustainable DPS, when escorts I build can spike hard, and SUSTAIN said spike once I start cycling everything.
CSV/CRF only lasts for 10 secs, with a 15 secs CD on duplicate ability. Since you can't get past global, there's always gonna be a small lull inbetween cannon attacks. You could perhaps time a BO spike in there somewhere, or TS or something. But a sustained cannon attack, I don't see how it could be done.
Sorry heretic, you can't sustain spike, I mean it wouldn't be spike if it was sustained.
You can get high levels of damage and CRF2x2 with APA will do some heavy damage. Funny enough CRF chained and focused on a target gives heavy pressure damage, far more than any A2B cruiser...it's just easier to escape lol.
CSV/CRF only lasts for 10 secs, with a 15 secs CD on duplicate ability. Since you can't get past global, there's always gonna be a small lull inbetween cannon attacks. You could perhaps time a BO spike in there somewhere, or TS or something. But a sustained cannon attack, I don't see how it could be done.
If you cycle cannon abilities, there is only a 5 second downtime if you have two cannon buffs. It's comparative to the 5 (or 10, forget which) global that is on beam abilities as well. That 5 second downtime is maybe 1 salvo, which isn't that big. So that's how you sustain a cannon attack.
However if you want 100% uptime, there is no ability that has the ability to do that (save EPtX abilities). Which means, looking at it from that PoV, there is no sustainable attack.
Sorry heretic, you can't sustain spike, I mean it wouldn't be spike if it was sustained.
You can get high levels of damage and CRF2x2 with APA will do some heavy damage. Funny enough CRF chained and focused on a target gives heavy pressure damage, far more than any A2B cruiser...it's just easier to escape lol.
Ok, you're right, I should have stated it differently. You can spike like a crazy TRIBBLE using APA3, FOMM3, TF2, etc, but that only gives you 30 second of insane spike (I would know, got one of my escorts up to 60k spike once using cannons back in S6).
However, you can still sustain a huge amount of pressure damage, like you said, which is what I am arguing.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
If you cycle cannon abilities, there is only a 5 second downtime if you have two cannon buffs. It's comparative to the 5 (or 10, forget which) global that is on beam abilities as well. That 5 second downtime is maybe 1 salvo, which isn't that big. So that's how you sustain a cannon attack.
You can spike like a crazy TRIBBLE using APA3, FOMM3, TF2, etc, but that only gives you 30 second of insane spike (I would know, got one of my escorts up to 60k spike once using cannons back in S6).
However, you can still sustain a huge amount of pressure damage, like you said, which is what I am arguing.
yep that's what i'm saying, if there's the need, rather than just doing comparable dps, on an escort u have the ability to concentrate a lot of dmg output in a small amount of time -> spike dmg.
this is very useful in a number of situations, only escorts can do this, but a large number of players dn't take this into account. that 60k spike and what i had mentioned about getting melted in 1 sec if caught off guard in pvp?
ideas for developing the game are many, this one was both on topic with the thread (to help either with spike or flatting the graph damage output while getting some other bonuses), as well as tackling a few engi-sci stuff.
ok, agreed, since i had taken a break from the game i had not know how much of a dps faw with a2b got.
if u want to be able to do that.. great. cruisers are the biggest, most weaps slots, and with engi caps/skills have the most power, energy wise, in the game. this should have a down side right?
that's where aux power having an effect on all skills would come in.
if u'r ,pushing that much power in weaps something needs to give. A2B drains aux to 5, and that would mean heals and resistance would be a lot less helpful or not working at all. Bottom line, if u want to be a dps power house in a cruiser u'd be a lot more fragile.
and while on paper best dps = "most efficient way to beat pve queues" the escorts ability to spike and focus on one target (like a boss) is very helpful! at the moment bfaw may be a better mechanic than CSV but it is not the same as putting it against CRF
i'd take 1 tank build cruiser with 4 escorts every day over 5 bfaw cruiser for 1 high hp, high dmg enemy.
But we dn't have that sort of challenge in pve. i was tanking a cube in an elite stf yesterday in a fleet escort!!! So why would a cruiser captain go for a tank build rather then a dps build when there's no trade of and you can tank everything just as easily?
"Cruisers/warbirds are a superior ship to Escorts."
man if that's what you think cryptic will listen to... you'll be waiting 3 years or more with no change like sci captains are.... if sci and their cc skills would have any teeth things would look different.
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I forgot about that - I asked in the other thread about that if it was in the first part and not the second art...cause I went through that second part play-by-play during my WTFUXXOR moment - lol. Don't know if that got answered there or not. Guess I could look...but that requires having some caffeine and nicotine - instead of doing this one eye closed stream of conscious stuff, eh?
A2B with techinicians is a broken skill that makes a BFW cruiser utterly the best in DPS. They even put my 12k dps escort to shame with it.
Though at least the technicians cost a lot on the exchange, so this broken #### is not as popular as it would be otherwise.
On the other hand, battlecruiser are now very good with Dual heavy cannons and cruiser commands. (Klingons can be happy finally)
Beams have numbers because of content. Cannons just have numbers.
Highest dps ship at the moment is the Scimitar which is NOT a cruiser or an escort, I believe they class it as a dreadnought. Sure it's not far from a cruiser but I think it would be more accurate to call it a destroyer with an extra fore weapon.
Incidentally did anyone else notice how similar the Scimitar is to the vet destroyer?
As for A2B, most of the highest dps people do not use it to get the high numbers, reason being you lose out on the nukara T4 offense passive boost as well as the extra damage from AMP.
Escorts with cannons are capable of upto 34k dps, that's in a team similar to the Scimitars, so if you're not getting over 12k you have the unfortunate privilege to be in the same group as me, I just suck with escorts and cannons
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. My cannon build on my escort usually sits at 16k in ise. I have gotten up to 24k in cse. This is with the FAE. I'm thinking about the Risian ship for the lt cmdr eng station. Wish there was a ship with a lt cmder eng with 5 tac consoles.
Its extremely similar but the destroyer has better turn and 2 less weapons no hanger. Also less shields, which is why you don't see it very often I want to play my vet destroyer more often but, they need to buff raptors and then kling and rom vet ships before I'll put my foot in it. Which is a shame.
Yes A2B isn't a the best for dps in all honesty just the easiest to attain high dps to do when you not very skilled at the game.
There are ships with 5 tact slots and ability to get lt com in engi but they don't exist on fed side yet.
But Aux 2 Bat ships make my ships feel as useless as a rainbow boat with mark X whites :rolleyes:
Wow, so polite. It's no wonder so many of your accounts got suspended.
Trolls will be trolls. They get off on trying to make others miserable.
But back on topic: Yeah, it's interesting what Geko hinted at. But it's also unlikely. Escorts are already pretty balanced, and it will be difficult to buff/adjust them and still keep it fair.
It's ok, I know your pain. I run a non-aux2bat cruiser, but I don't feel bad because mine can actually draw aggro away from those aux2bat ships due to my setup. So what if my DPS is half of theirs? It doesn't matter. I can tank soooo much more damage than they can because I have aux heals. Which I use. Copiously.
I think I was in an ESTF once with jkname, and said person asked me what I picked a fight with because my damage taken was more than the entire rest of the team combined (around ~1 500k damage taken, ~ twice that healed). I was even holding threat so well, that there was a T'varo in there whose damage taken was so low, they could have gone the entire STF without healing and never died (IE their damage taken was less than their hull strength).
YOU CAN STILL BE USEFUL!!! DON'T BE ASHAMED OF YOUR NON-AUX2BATNESS!!!
Report them to a Moderator instead, please.
Thank you!
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
well a solution would be not a nerf or a buff, but just a change.
weap power = more weap dmg
shield power = more shield regen
*the change instead of gaining 35% resistance at 125, u get a little bit for every point over... 25/50
engine power = obviously speed, turn rate
and also a side effect of this when moving u get the evasion stat to be harder to hit
aux power = this effect some heals, buffs, cc skills
*here's the big change, make it affect all skills! and also targeting.
not as in no aux u cant use skills, but as in modifier, aux is supposed to be for scanners, repairs, buffs, heals, drains etc, right now only a few sci and even less engi skills are affected by it.
more aux:
better sensors - less misses/can actually detect some1 cloaked getting on u'r TRIBBLE to spike for example (this would also require starship sensors not just high aux), less chance to miss. Don't fuss, if on a escort with cannons, u'll want to get even at less then 1km and this isn't a nerf or buff, if u'r flying beams and want to stay away tho, this will help every1.
all heals, resistance, buffs (and yes i do include attack patterns in this), cc skills, drains, subsystem targeting - better tanking or better dmg or better cc depending on which you combine.
just take out the alpha/omega pattern proc on sci dmg skills alrdy, its been 2 years.... a number of them were nerfed useless because of this, and this idea wn't work otherwise.
No/low aux power, would only mean less or no bonus, but a base stat would still proc with the skill.
how would this help?
well a2b would mean no bonuses from aux power to skills so beast dps but definitely lower defence on cruisers. higher power in shield will help little on dmg mitigation, but high heals and buffs (with extra stats from aux) is what a tank would make.
this will also help bring back sci, with a few tweaks and a 2nd deflector it just might be helpful again
finally tacs would get a bit of bonus on their patterns (i'm suggesting more dmg i must be crazy...) but actually not rly. either lover the base stat or make the cd longer on patterns, then add aux power bonus (this is not a nerf or buff, just redistributing stats to help you make diff builds.
depending on build, and how you shuffle power u'd get either insane spikes with lower survivability or better survivability with more even dmg output, while the dps of both builds over the time of a battle would be the same.
You can't have both, the whole point of the escort is to be able to cram every bit of dmg in the smallest amount of time on a priority enemy, with the downside that u can not sustain that dmg output all the time.
I would comment on the rest of your post, but atm, it's too much for how tired I am. So I will forego that and simply comment on this last part, more specifically the part I highlighted.
With an escort, you CAN sustain that massive damage spike. Just cycle CRF/CSV and APBs (for PvE) or APO (for PvP). An escort has a massive alpha and very VERY strong sustain if you build it right. I don't know why people seem to think escorts are for spike only with no sustainable DPS, when escorts I build can spike hard, and SUSTAIN said spike once I start cycling everything.
CSV/CRF only lasts for 10 secs, with a 15 secs CD on duplicate ability. Since you can't get past global, there's always gonna be a small lull inbetween cannon attacks. You could perhaps time a BO spike in there somewhere, or TS or something. But a sustained cannon attack, I don't see how it could be done.
You can get high levels of damage and CRF2x2 with APA will do some heavy damage. Funny enough CRF chained and focused on a target gives heavy pressure damage, far more than any A2B cruiser...it's just easier to escape lol.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
If you cycle cannon abilities, there is only a 5 second downtime if you have two cannon buffs. It's comparative to the 5 (or 10, forget which) global that is on beam abilities as well. That 5 second downtime is maybe 1 salvo, which isn't that big. So that's how you sustain a cannon attack.
However if you want 100% uptime, there is no ability that has the ability to do that (save EPtX abilities). Which means, looking at it from that PoV, there is no sustainable attack.
Ok, you're right, I should have stated it differently. You can spike like a crazy TRIBBLE using APA3, FOMM3, TF2, etc, but that only gives you 30 second of insane spike (I would know, got one of my escorts up to 60k spike once using cannons back in S6).
However, you can still sustain a huge amount of pressure damage, like you said, which is what I am arguing.
yep that's what i'm saying, if there's the need, rather than just doing comparable dps, on an escort u have the ability to concentrate a lot of dmg output in a small amount of time -> spike dmg.
this is very useful in a number of situations, only escorts can do this, but a large number of players dn't take this into account. that 60k spike and what i had mentioned about getting melted in 1 sec if caught off guard in pvp?
ideas for developing the game are many, this one was both on topic with the thread (to help either with spike or flatting the graph damage output while getting some other bonuses), as well as tackling a few engi-sci stuff.
The most efficient way to beat pve queues is high numbers of sustainable dps. This is done best by bfaw cruisers/warbirds.
Any variant/type of escort/escort build CANNOT match the dps of a proper beam cruiser/warbird.
Any DHC variant/type of escort/escort build DEFINITELY CANNOT match the dps of a proper beam cruiser/warbird.
BFAW is a superior mechanic to CSV or CRF.
Cruisers/warbirds are a superior ship to Escorts.
if u want to be able to do that.. great. cruisers are the biggest, most weaps slots, and with engi caps/skills have the most power, energy wise, in the game. this should have a down side right?
that's where aux power having an effect on all skills would come in.
if u'r ,pushing that much power in weaps something needs to give. A2B drains aux to 5, and that would mean heals and resistance would be a lot less helpful or not working at all. Bottom line, if u want to be a dps power house in a cruiser u'd be a lot more fragile.
and while on paper best dps = "most efficient way to beat pve queues" the escorts ability to spike and focus on one target (like a boss) is very helpful!
at the moment bfaw may be a better mechanic than CSV but it is not the same as putting it against CRF
i'd take 1 tank build cruiser with 4 escorts every day over 5 bfaw cruiser for 1 high hp, high dmg enemy.
But we dn't have that sort of challenge in pve. i was tanking a cube in an elite stf yesterday in a fleet escort!!! So why would a cruiser captain go for a tank build rather then a dps build when there's no trade of and you can tank everything just as easily?
"Cruisers/warbirds are a superior ship to Escorts."
man if that's what you think cryptic will listen to... you'll be waiting 3 years or more with no change like sci captains are.... if sci and their cc skills would have any teeth things would look different.