Vesta for a Tactical?

lindaleff

My Science character is using the Vesta set to great effect. He is using an escort build, to make maximum effect of those Auxiliary Cannons. With a full Auxiliary build, I can keep my shields up with no difficulty, while also allowing the Auxiliary Cannons to do massive damage.

But then you have my Tactical character. His Fleet MVAE does massive damage, but it does die rather easily. That got me to thinking, maybe a Vesta would help him. Maximum damage ability PLUS maximum shield ability would certainly guarantee his usefulness.

So, has anyone here used a Vesta with a Tactical? Does it work? Exactly how effectively would Vesta replace the Fleet MVAE?

dahminus

You lose some turn, speed, a fore weapon, commander tactical, and 2 tactical consoles slots

You gain hull, shields, commander sci, a hangar and the aforementioned aux cannons.

Captains abilities have an impact, but we aren't talking earth shattering. Course you can run a tact in a vesta with no worries

Here's the build that best utilizes a vesta for damage (minus the vesta consoles#

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dahmsnonaux_0
3 attack pattern doffs, gravimetric GW doff, 2 others of your choice

ddesjardins

I've only come to one instance where a Tac Vesta was advantageous and that was in completing the No Win Scenario (NWS).

In this case the build was a floater, GW3 typical build with TBR's. My reasoning for trying a tac captain with it was that the sci and eng vestas underperformed in the dps, and I had hoped that the alpha strike would have been useful. It was, and we achieved a Level 10 victory as a fleet.

The only console I kept was the Fermion field generator for the AOE heal.

I don't think a dedicated Tac Vesta build is the way to go - but whatever floats your boat.

coffeemike

My eng & tac ran the tac Vesta and its fun. I switched out the tac with the Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser and its been epic for her. My main toon still runs it as a beam boat.

noblet

Expect to lose a lot of applied dmg. A commander tac and 2-3 tac consoles make a huge difference in dmg, not to mention turn rate. And yes, it most certainly qualifies as "earth shattering difference." There's also power management for tac in science ship.

You certainly gain science boff abilities and some survivability, but don't expect to keep the dmg output. And you'll need to respec your tac some points into science.

pwstolemyname

Frankly your captain type is of very little importance. Any build for any ship that relies upon your captain abilities to fulfill its role is probably a bad build.

Tactical Captains can do very well in science ships, They actualy have a greater capability to do damage with offensice science powers then science captains do.

With the best equipment and doffs, and with the right build a fleet MVAE should be able to make it through any elite content with little to no risk of encountering a respawn button. If your looking to improve your tank you might wish to change the build you have on it, or see if you could be handling the ship better.

You certainly don't need any of the features that the vesta can offer you, provided you know what your doing. Your DPS potential in the Fleet MVAE certainly does exceeds that of the vesta so if completing content as quickly as possible is your goal this isn't a pair of ships you want to swap.

That said this works both ways. You also don't need the DPS potential of the fleet MVAE, the vesta is quite capable of exceeding your dps needs for any content in sto. Frankly Sto isn't that difficult. So the question is, which ship do you find more fun to fly? Would you prefer more DPS then you need or more utility then you need?

Don't worry about your captain type. That's irrelevant to the decision.

twam

I got both (Fleet) MVAE and Vesta on various sci and tac characters, and I find they are both awesome, and fully kitted out will both do great.

Vesta gets more control and shield tanking, MVAE gets more direct damage. Having said that, I tend to prefer the Vesta for most content (including PvP). Particularly since the GW changes, popping (tac boosted) GW3 and TBR2 gives a solid boost to your dps, without scattering everything all over the place (group will yo-yo in place between the GW pull and TBR push).

I tend to run something like this, for instance, with 1 GW doff, 3 purple DCE doffs and 2 cannon doffs:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tacvestaoption_0

Packs a whallop of damage and is sturdy enough to share those sci heals when needed. Add hangar pets to taste.

szerontzur

My Federation kinetic specialist is obviously a tactical and their plasma-torpboat Vesta is easily one of my most fearsome ships.

I really cannot recommend the Vesta over a pure(energy weapon-based) escort though. The Vesta is a SCIENCE ship and should be considered as one first and foremost. If you're really wanting more survivability from an escort, go with the Armitage. It even has a Hanger like the Vesta. If you really want a something more durable that keeps a science leaning, go with a Destroyer(Mobius or Chel Grett or even Chimaera if applicable).

villetta

Finding a right boff setup isn't what I'm concerned with the most. As a tac in a science ship, I wonder what a decent distribution of my power looks like.

I love the Vesta, but I always feel like that retardo that everyone goes "oh god not this guy" when they see, because of the ship I fly.

taylor1701d

Aux cannons run off aux power, but your rear weapons will be lacking...
As a sci in a Vesta I throw the AP 360' beam on the back(3xaux cannons in the front)
The AP beam can then make use of the subsystem targeting.
Kinetic beam and a torp is nice to finish the rear weapon loadout...or the romulan exp beam array.
If you put turrets in the back they won't do much good anyway if you plan to go full Aux.
But go for it if you must, just carry weapons batts.

And tac captain can have the nastiest Feedback pulse in a Vesta.
Alpha combined with max aux + fermion boost to particle generators...and delta
Its unrivaled.

simeion1

taylor1701d wrote: »

Aux cannons run off aux power, but your rear weapons will be lacking...
As a sci in a Vesta I throw the AP 360' beam on the back(3xaux cannons in the front)
The AP beam can then make use of the subsystem targeting.
Kinetic beam and a torp is nice to finish the rear weapon loadout...or the romulan exp beam array.
If you put turrets in the back they won't do much good anyway if you plan to go full Aux.
But go for it if you must, just carry weapons batts.

And tac captain can have the nastiest Feedback pulse in a Vesta.
Alpha combined with max aux + fermion boost to particle generators...and delta
Its unrivaled.

I have to disagree with your statement that rear weapons are lacking. I have seen my Vesta run circles around tacs in escorts. I have plenty of ACT runs showing a science out DPSing tacs in there escort. The blessing of the Vesta is you can run off two subsystems for weapons power. I use a overcharged warp core allowing me to run 130 Aux, but because I have Plasmonic leach and 6 points in flow cap, I gain 18+ points of power to all power systems. Then you run two eng bridge officer stations. One a ensign with EPtW gives me 24 point of power and I also run EPtS and Aux2Sif. Both of those give resistance. The EPtW also gives 10% damage increase. Well my weapons power ideal if around 70 then I run plus 18 from Plasmonic leech and plus 24 from EPtW you are almost around 115 weapons power. This is an estimate because I adjust my power based on what I am doing. Now you have three weapons each drawing from each power system. Not as big drain means more DPS. Let the pet spam and science abilities do your kinetic damage.

The key is to run three purple diagnostic engineer doffs that reduce the recharge time of EPtX skills. Since they are reducing you also run. This puts them on a 31 second cooldown when it procs. With the cooldown reduction you now have the ability to run these in a continuous 15 sec interval, with almost 100% up time. Then you add a warp core engineer doff that grants 25 power to all systems with the use of EPtX skills, yes it is a 25% chance but it proces often now your power level are above 125 each for both systems drawing power for fire weapons there is even over cap there.

I still run 67 in shields and 57 in engines power levels then add Plasmonic leech and EPtS bonus and warp core doff bonus when it procs. I have seen all of my power level well above 100 numerous times in all four systems.

This is the beauty of the Vesta.

simeion1

szerontzur wrote: »

My Federation kinetic specialist is obviously a tactical and their plasma-torpboat Vesta is easily one of my most fearsome ships.

I really cannot recommend the Vesta over a pure(energy weapon-based) escort though. The Vesta is a SCIENCE ship and should be considered as one first and foremost. If you're really wanting more survivability from an escort, go with the Armitage. It even has a Hanger like the Vesta. If you really want a something more durable that keeps a science leaning, go with a Destroyer(Mobius or Chel Grett or even Chimaera if applicable).

I have to agree with this a little. The problem is like most forum post if you don't know the person behind the post in game it is hard to tell what type of pilot they are. The reason I disagree a little is as a science captain than flies a vesta and runs ACT. (AdvanceCombat Tracker). I out damage 95-98% of all tacs I run across. While the exceptional tacs still out DPS me they are hard to find. I guess what I am trying to say they can but most can't. After all tacs are all supposed to be about DPS.

simeion1

dahminus wrote: »

You lose some turn, speed, a fore weapon, commander tactical, and 2 tactical consoles slots

You gain hull, shields, commander sci, a hangar and the aforementioned aux cannons.

Captains abilities have an impact, but we aren't talking earth shattering. Course you can run a tact in a vesta with no worries

Here's the build that best utilizes a vesta for damage (minus the vesta consoles#

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dahmsnonaux_0
3 attack pattern doffs, gravimetric GW doff, 2 others of your choice

Nice build although I would lose GW1. To long of a cooldown and now you GW3 if on a minute forty cooldown instead of a minute. Most players cant afford attack pattern doffs, I would run a deflector doff to have a chance to get my GW3 to global cooldown. The only thing I would do is use the tac Vesta for the forth tac console run four CritH spire consoles for phasers. Get the zero point console that adds 1.8% chance to crit from the Nukara rep. Running a combat tracker I have seen some players in the 20-25% chance to crit range. Critical hitting every forth or filth shot is insane increase in damage output.

lagunad

dahminus wrote: »

Here's the build that best utilizes a vesta for damage (minus the vesta consoles#

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dahmsnonaux_0
3 attack pattern doffs, gravimetric GW doff, 2 others of your choice

What is the point of running 2x Emergency Power to Engines?

valrobertson93

Interesting read. I never thought that a Vesta could be useful for a tac before.

talonxv

robthefourth wrote: »

Interesting read. I never thought that a Vesta could be useful for a tac before.

Well they do have 3 Vesta Variants. On is more Tac oriented. Why eventually I am going to buy the 3 pack.

dahminus

lagunad wrote: »

What is the point of running 2x Emergency Power to Engines?

The buff lasts 30 seconds with a cooldown of 45 seconds. By using 2 of the same eptX, you maintain 100% uptime. I chose engines to give the vesta a speed and turn boost to more easily get the cannons to bare.

Eptw would still yield a dps boost but you still need to get the target in arc to fire

taylor1701d

simeion1 wrote: »

I have to disagree with your statement that rear weapons are lacking. I have seen my Vesta run circles around tacs in escorts. I have plenty of ACT runs showing a science out DPSing tacs in there escort. The blessing of the Vesta is you can run off two subsystems for weapons power. I use a overcharged warp core allowing me to run 130 Aux, but because I have Plasmonic leach and 6 points in flow cap, I gain 18+ points of power to all power systems. Then you run two eng bridge officer stations. One a ensign with EPtW gives me 24 point of power and I also run EPtS and Aux2Sif. Both of those give resistance. The EPtW also gives 10% damage increase. Well my weapons power ideal if around 70 then I run plus 18 from Plasmonic leech and plus 24 from EPtW you are almost around 115 weapons power. This is an estimate because I adjust my power based on what I am doing. Now you have three weapons each drawing from each power system. Not as big drain means more DPS. Let the pet spam and science abilities do your kinetic damage.
U
The key is to run three purple diagnostic engineer doffs that reduce the recharge time of EPtX skills. Since they are reducing you also run. This puts them on a 31 second cooldown when it procs. With the cooldown reduction you now have the ability to run these in a continuous 15 sec interval, with almost 100% up time. Then you add a warp core engineer doff that grants 25 power to all systems with the use of EPtX skills, yes it is a 25% chance but it proces often now your power level are above 125 each for both systems drawing power for fire weapons there is even over cap there.

I still run 67 in shields and 57 in engines power levels then add Plasmonic leech and EPtS bonus and warp core doff bonus when it procs. I have seen all of my power level well above 100 numerous times in all four systems.

This is the beauty of the Vesta.

That's all well and good, but ur Vesta would not be doing using any sci wizard skills.
You've chosen the emp2X route...
I've got 2 engi skills on my Vesta.
2 tac skills
The rest are all sci based heals or cc skills.

The advantage of the Vesta pack is that the 3 aux cannons allow you to cut weapons power completely.
While at the same time still maintaining high dps output from the frontal weapon slots via 3x aux cannons.
The Vesta is meant for sci skills...5 sci consoles proves this even furthur.
5x particle gens hmmmmm
All sci skills revolve around the Aux power level.
In a Vesta you want to be at full aux power.

I hear your point about drawing weapons power from 2 systems.
But your in the wrong Vesta pack ship if your looking for dps.
By all means get in the tactical version, and do what you've described.
But don't waste the 5 sci console Vesta on a dps build.

Furthuremore the 3 emp2x doffs are super cheesy.
Like no coolcown betweens skills....really cheap way of fighting.

But ill put my 400 fbp Vesta against your Vesta anyday.

simeion1

taylor1701d wrote: »

That's all well and good, but ur Vesta would not be doing using any sci wizard skills.
You've chosen the emp2X route...
I've got 2 engi skills on my Vesta.
2 tac skills
The rest are all sci based heals or cc skills.

The advantage of the Vesta pack is that the 3 aux cannons allow you to cut weapons power completely.
While at the same time still maintaining high dps output from the frontal weapon slots via 3x aux cannons.
The Vesta is meant for sci skills...5 sci consoles proves this even furthur.
5x particle gens hmmmmm
All sci skills revolve around the Aux power level.
In a Vesta you want to be at full aux power.

I hear your point about drawing weapons power from 2 systems.
But your in the wrong Vesta pack ship if your looking for dps.
By all means get in the tactical version, and do what you've described.
But don't waste the 5 sci console Vesta on a dps build.

Furthuremore the 3 emp2x doffs are super cheesy.
Like no coolcown betweens skills....really cheap way of fighting.

But ill put my 400 fbp Vesta against your Vesta anyday.

I am not trying to say my Vesta is better than your Vesta that is all based on, the pilot and game play. And head to head I know better than to keep firing at someone while using FBP. Or keep firing and subnucleaonic beam it. What I am trying to say is people rave about the Wells, but the Vesta is almost just a versatile. I have build for all three Vesta options. I run a FBP build in a Palisades.

taylor1701d

simeion1 wrote: »

I am not trying to say my Vesta is better than your Vesta that is all based on, the pilot and game play. And head to head I know better than to keep firing at someone while using FBP. Or keep firing and subnucleaonic beam it. What I am trying to say is people rave about the Wells, but the Vesta is almost just a versatile. I have build for all three Vesta options. I run a FBP build in a Palisades.

Pali is arguably the best for fbp.
That's what I'm doing if I'm a tac in a sci ship.

The engi and tac versions of the Vesta are more suited for what you described.
That's all I was pointing out. And that rear turrets wouldn't add substantially to your overall dps anyway. And could be almost negated by using subsystem targeting with AP Beam an torps for well timed strikes as they don't need weapon power to be effective.

saxmanusmc

Here are the two builds I use with my Vesta on my Tac toon.

NWS Build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tacvestanwsbuild_0

Pure DPS Build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=taccaptainvestadpsbuild_0

For both builds I use the same DOFFs.
1x Purple Grav Scientist (reduces CD by 10 sec when using GW or TR)
2x Purple Projectile Weapons Officer (chance to reduce torp CD)
2x Purple Deflector Officers (chance to reduce CD on Deflector Abilities)

Both tac BOFFs are Embassy Romulan for +crit
Tac consoles are actually the Spire +CrtD consoles.

Both of these work great for their purposes. I personally do not pvp. The dps build in pve though is absolutely devastating. I can burn groups and the gates and cubes in STFs faster than any other ship I have used.

dahminus

saxmanusmc wrote: »

Here are the two builds I use with my Vesta on my Tac toon.

NWS Build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tacvestanwsbuild_0

Pure DPS Build

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=taccaptainvestadpsbuild_0

For both builds I use the same DOFFs.
1x Purple Grav Scientist (reduces CD by 10 sec when using GW or TR)
2x Purple Projectile Weapons Officer (chance to reduce torp CD)
2x Purple Deflector Officers (chance to reduce CD on Deflector Abilities)

Both tac BOFFs are Embassy Romulan for +crit
Tac consoles are actually the Spire +CrtD consoles.

Both of these work great for their purposes. I personally do not pvp. The dps build in pve though is absolutely devastating. I can burn groups and the gates and cubes in STFs faster than any other ship I have used.

You could take your general dps build to such a higher level of awesome. And I assume you float for nws

sarcasmdetector

Here is my high end DPS tactical Vesta build flown by a tactical captain.

before the FAW crit bug it was hitting 24-25k DPS

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=quincy_5833

macronius

Tac with cannon build is definitely viable for Vesta. Had a 15K build which I ran some 6-8 months ago. Straight up Aux + turret + Elite scorpions. Lots of fun to be had even if it is not the highest DPS ship around. You will have medium damage and high utility on this ship and very versatile play. Win win win

I recommend going with AP and getting the 360 rear beam so you can use subsystems targeting. If you go with cannon then you can avoid the BFAW shared CD with subsytems too. So another reason to go with cannons.

futurepastnow

Tac captain + science ship can be a profitable combination, and the Vesta is your best bet there. You haven't lived until you've fired a GDF Grav Well

saxmanusmc

dahminus wrote: »

You could take your general dps build to such a higher level of awesome. And I assume you float for nws

Do tell about taking my dps build to another level....lol. Always looking for tips. Right now that build gets me 8.5K-9.8K in ISE depending on the group. Hit 11K one time.

The NWS group I have run with using that NWS build I posted, I was running west if I remember correctly.

dahminus

Nws wave 10 west?

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dahmvesta_0
Rsp doff, gravity well doff, 3 shield distribution doffs for brace for impact and one of your choice.

You will a dramatic increase in dps here due to all your tactic abilities being at global cool down.

I would ditch the torp for another beam array. And swap torpedo spread for tactical teams. But i can understand enjoying that specific torpedo

Elite scorps will do more dps. Let me know if you start hitting 15k+

saxmanusmc

dahminus wrote: »

Nws wave 10 west?

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dahmvesta_0
Rsp doff, gravity well doff, 3 shield distribution doffs for brace for impact and one of your choice.

You will a dramatic increase in dps here due to all your tactic abilities being at global cool down.

I would ditch the torp for another beam array. And swap torpedo spread for tactical teams. But i can understand enjoying that specific torpedo

Elite scorps will do more dps. Let me know if you start hitting 15k+

All makes sense...thank you sir...lol. I do have elite scorps on my Jemnaught could just pull one over.

I will admit, the torp is hella fun..lol. For the grav well doff, I am assuming the one that causes chain GW's?

Also, not familiar with the doff for RSP. What am I looking for exactly? Thanks again for the info! /cheers


Edit: Just did an ISE run and hit 12.7K. Put in Elite Scorpions, dropped the TR for GW I, and put in Grav Scientist DOFF for chain Grav Wells. Still had the torp.

dahminus

Fabrication doff for reverse shield polarity. Boost duration by 7ish seconds.

Pretty sexy. Almost overkill for pve

saxmanusmc

dahminus wrote: »

Fabrication doff for reverse shield polarity. Boost duration by 7ish seconds.

Pretty sexy. Almost overkill for pve

Ahh gotcha...lol. Will check it out. Would definitely be a nice buffer for NWS.