Off the cuff question: What if, in a bizarre coincidence, 2 black holes found themselves orbiting each other at each other's event horizons? Hmm?
I don't see why two black holes couldn't orbit each other (excluding how they happened to end up in such a scenario). But somehow it makes me think that their accretion disks colliding would rather soon create an imbalance that would eventually make the two holes collide creating a more massive hole.
I guess the 'black hole/star' scenario would be more stable than that. And also very nice to see.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
"Well, the thing about black holes, right, is they're black. And the thing about the scanner screen, right, is it's black."
You forgot about the universe that is, well, rather black.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I'd love to try my hand at a black hole. Though I think there would have to be some mechanic to it that is slowly pulling you in, so it would need some design time as well.
There's a scene in one of the Destiny novels where the Enterprise and the Aventine emerge from a subspace tunnel inside the plasma stream connecting a black hole to the star it's eating. Which is not a safe place for a ship to be, and this game needs some cool environmental hazards.
How about exploring planets around a Pulsar? Sure you'd need some major protection just to get on the surface, and you'd need special shielding, find a way into a cave, or die instantly when that beam sweeps across the planet and into you... but wouldn't it be fun to explore such a world?
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
A black hole scenario would be compelling, but since gravity doesn't change just because it's original star collapsed it would just be visually interesting...
The other neat effect a black hole can have is being near the event horizon where the gravity starts to effect everything to the point were time gets stretched and slowed, but that wouldn't play well with the other game mechanics.
That would only work if the player takes up an outside observer position and has to deal with his ship being super slow and stretched.
How about we encounter a dark matter area. I think there has been a prescedent in Star Trek for that, too?
"Well, the thing about black holes, right, is they're black. And the thing about the scanner screen, right, is it's black."
I want a planet pool minigame now .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
Funny, I was going to post that, but ended up giving up due to having trouble finding proper words.
However, there is a slight error in your logic:
Since gravity works on a per-particle basis, with each particle (each one with mass, anyway) pulling every other particle (with mass) in the universe (albeit insignificantly), the other side of the black hole will also be pulling at you more, as a result of being a lot closer to you than it would have been when the black hole was a sun. So, while the mass is the same (as you said), the gravitational pull at the same distance from the gravitational center will in fact be greater.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
Another thing to consider is that Black Holes are on average more massive than stars. So not only is it a compact gravity well, but it's usually a very large one.
I'd LOVE to be able to fly through an Accretion Disk in STO.
It was Newton himself who postulated and proved the shell theorem, and I quote:
A spherically symmetric body affects external objects gravitationally as though all of its mass were concentrated at a point at its centre.
Look up shell theorem if you wish to learn more.
Hehe had to look that up, been a while since I studied astrophysics!
Well, while writing up my response, I realized that the best argument I could find was a self-destructive one.
Namely, while it is true that the half of the black hole directly opposite an object would exert a considerably greater pull due to being a lot closer to the object than it had been when the black hole was a star, I forgot to note that the distance between the object and the other half would be increased, compensating perfectly for the increased pull. Which kills any and all validity I thought my previous post had.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Something tells me that even if it were possible to add a working Black Hole into the game, the accretion disc around it would put a huge strain on any video card...
Something else I would want to see are Protostars. Basically nebulae on the verge of their transformation into stars. It'd be interesting to fly around exploring one.
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Something tells me that even if it were possible to add a working Black Hole into the game, the accretion disc around it would put a huge strain on any video card...
Doesnt seem to cause any problems with the Bajoran wormhole or the Singularity Jump Black Holes (which have accretion disks).
Doesnt seem to cause any problems with the Bajoran wormhole or the Singularity Jump Black Holes (which have accretion disks).
True, but the one at the center of the galaxy would be a problem... those are hundreds of times larger I would think. Most likely with tons of debris from crushed up planets, ships, civilizations, etc...
Oh, great... I can see it now.. a Doritos Chips bag stuck on one of the ship's exterior cameras...
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Doesnt seem to cause any problems with the Bajoran wormhole or the Singularity Jump Black Holes (which have accretion disks).
the singularity jump effect is rather small, though; a proper sized black hole would have to be many times larger, and that could potentially strain certain video cards
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
True, but the one at the center of the galaxy would be a problem... those are hundreds of times larger I would think. Most likely with tons of debris from crushed up planets, ships, civilizations, etc...
Oh, great... I can see it now.. a Doritos Chips bag stuck on one of the ship's exterior cameras...
Look no one is heading near the Center of the Galaxy. Don't want to deal with yosemite God again. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooohhh.
Super Massive Black Hole...
Something to do with the event horizon. Something about a science crew getting to the very brink of the black holes event horizon, just shy of inescapable gravity....something involving multiple copies of your ship, fractured/bent time...with a solution coming thru use of your deflector array
Just something I'd like to see. Or something similar
Or...in TNG they mention ultra dense material.
So dense a cubic inch could weigh as much as an entire star system.
I'd like a story involving an asteroid kms wide made of this super dense material travelling towards our solar system...
This super dense massive asteroid would cause choas even if it missed earth completely, by leaving in its wake, a trail of temporal distortion (due to its massive gravity field)..so powerful as to bend light/time.
The mission is to somehow find a way to deflect (or stop) the doomsday asteroid.
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
Hehehe, that's what I've been trying to explain back at page 2. But well, I gave up after the next couple pages...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
How big would you want the Black Hole, and how close would you want us to get? If our Sun were somehow replaced by a Black Hole of equivalent mass, then we'd only have to maintain a safe distance of about 16.1 kilometers before things got dangerous for our starship. Black Holes that are much smaller than those currently known to exist would have another issue; evaporation. Hawking Radiation would mean that a Black Hole the size of a cruise liner would disappear in a bright flash in less than a second.
So, while the mass is the same (as you said), the gravitational pull at the same distance from the gravitational center will in fact be greater.
No. F(g) = (G*m1*m2)/(r^2). Notice the lack of a density term in that equation. As far as force exerted goes, there is nothing special about a black hole.
This super dense massive asteroid would cause choas even if it missed earth completely,
So that's how the Breen get their unlimited supply of fighters from ships that don't look like they can hold them... From some kind of magical superdense material chunk built into their capital ships?
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,581Community Moderator
LOL Everyone wants to point out that black holes don't have any more mass than the star that collapsed to create them.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
wow.... all this talk about Black Holes. Makes me think about White Holes, which probably would exist for a very tiny fraction of time; the moment it spews out enough mass, gravity will collapse the thing into a Black Hole....
Maybe during one mission your ship could warp towards an exploding moon by mistake (remember the Klingon moon which Excelsior encountered?).
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
How big would you want the Black Hole, and how close would you want us to get? If our Sun were somehow replaced by a Black Hole of equivalent mass, then we'd only have to maintain a safe distance of about 16.1 kilometers before things got dangerous for our starship. Black Holes that are much smaller than those currently known to exist would have another issue; evaporation. Hawking Radiation would mean that a Black Hole the size of a cruise liner would disappear in a bright flash in less than a second.
Actually..... one line of speculation is that, below a certain point, Hawking radiation becomes intense enough that a black hole is no longer black.... this would include the famous example of having the Sun suddenly turn into a black hole. It's too small to be stable and would steadily lose mass via Hawking radiation.
Comments
I don't see why two black holes couldn't orbit each other (excluding how they happened to end up in such a scenario). But somehow it makes me think that their accretion disks colliding would rather soon create an imbalance that would eventually make the two holes collide creating a more massive hole.
I guess the 'black hole/star' scenario would be more stable than that. And also very nice to see.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
You forgot about the universe that is, well, rather black.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I'm thinking new shuttle mission!
There's a scene in one of the Destiny novels where the Enterprise and the Aventine emerge from a subspace tunnel inside the plasma stream connecting a black hole to the star it's eating. Which is not a safe place for a ship to be, and this game needs some cool environmental hazards.
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
The other neat effect a black hole can have is being near the event horizon where the gravity starts to effect everything to the point were time gets stretched and slowed, but that wouldn't play well with the other game mechanics.
That would only work if the player takes up an outside observer position and has to deal with his ship being super slow and stretched.
How about we encounter a dark matter area. I think there has been a prescedent in Star Trek for that, too?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dark_matter
I want a planet pool minigame now
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
We could finally justify that bug where you beam down as your spaceship.
Well. . . yes. However, remember that all of that mass is now in a MUCH smaller package. That means you can get MUCH closer to that gravitational center. So yes, if I were at the same distance to the center of the star, as I am to the center of it's black hole, the gravity would be the same. But if I'm very close to that black hole (well within the previous boundaries of the star), that gravity would become much more intense.
Funny, I was going to post that, but ended up giving up due to having trouble finding proper words.
However, there is a slight error in your logic:
Since gravity works on a per-particle basis, with each particle (each one with mass, anyway) pulling every other particle (with mass) in the universe (albeit insignificantly), the other side of the black hole will also be pulling at you more, as a result of being a lot closer to you than it would have been when the black hole was a sun. So, while the mass is the same (as you said), the gravitational pull at the same distance from the gravitational center will in fact be greater.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'd LOVE to be able to fly through an Accretion Disk in STO.
My character Tsin'xing
Well, while writing up my response, I realized that the best argument I could find was a self-destructive one.
Namely, while it is true that the half of the black hole directly opposite an object would exert a considerably greater pull due to being a lot closer to the object than it had been when the black hole was a star, I forgot to note that the distance between the object and the other half would be increased, compensating perfectly for the increased pull. Which kills any and all validity I thought my previous post had.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Something else I would want to see are Protostars. Basically nebulae on the verge of their transformation into stars. It'd be interesting to fly around exploring one.
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
True, but the one at the center of the galaxy would be a problem... those are hundreds of times larger I would think. Most likely with tons of debris from crushed up planets, ships, civilizations, etc...
Oh, great... I can see it now.. a Doritos Chips bag stuck on one of the ship's exterior cameras...
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Look no one is heading near the Center of the Galaxy. Don't want to deal with yosemite God again. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooohhh.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Something to do with the event horizon. Something about a science crew getting to the very brink of the black holes event horizon, just shy of inescapable gravity....something involving multiple copies of your ship, fractured/bent time...with a solution coming thru use of your deflector array
Just something I'd like to see. Or something similar
Or...in TNG they mention ultra dense material.
So dense a cubic inch could weigh as much as an entire star system.
I'd like a story involving an asteroid kms wide made of this super dense material travelling towards our solar system...
This super dense massive asteroid would cause choas even if it missed earth completely, by leaving in its wake, a trail of temporal distortion (due to its massive gravity field)..so powerful as to bend light/time.
The mission is to somehow find a way to deflect (or stop) the doomsday asteroid.
Hehehe, that's what I've been trying to explain back at page 2. But well, I gave up after the next couple pages...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
How big would you want the Black Hole, and how close would you want us to get? If our Sun were somehow replaced by a Black Hole of equivalent mass, then we'd only have to maintain a safe distance of about 16.1 kilometers before things got dangerous for our starship. Black Holes that are much smaller than those currently known to exist would have another issue; evaporation. Hawking Radiation would mean that a Black Hole the size of a cruise liner would disappear in a bright flash in less than a second.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
So that's how the Breen get their unlimited supply of fighters from ships that don't look like they can hold them... From some kind of magical superdense material chunk built into their capital ships?
-Nexus Ribbon
-Spatial Interphase http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Interphase
-Energy Vortex http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Energy_vortex
-Quantum Fissure http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_fissure
-Underspace http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Underspace
-Cosmic String http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cosmic_string
Some people just cannot science.
Maybe during one mission your ship could warp towards an exploding moon by mistake (remember the Klingon moon which Excelsior encountered?).
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
My character Tsin'xing