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My Problem with Fleet & Box Ships
hasukurobi
Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
You probably assume I am going to be angry about Fleet & Box Ship stats or costs but really my issue with them is a bit different. What I am currently finding to be a real problem with them is that they heavily discourage buying most C-Store vessels.
The reason I say this is that most C-Store ships that are Tier V come with a single console as a major benefit that is often fairly lackluster. Other than that they have little to offer and none of the polish that other ships have. Fleet Vessels out perform them in every respect and Lock Box ships come with that same Fleet performance, their own special gimmicks, and full unique bridges. The only C-Store vessels that compete much are the 3-Pack ships which are great and the cheap lower tier vessels which you may want the console from.
I find it very hard to justify buying any Tier V C-Store vessel these days which is not a 3-Pack because it will not have a unique bridge in most cases, it will not have the stats of a Fleet or Lobi Ship, and its console will likely be just a weak gimmick at best. That is somewhat sad because I have bought nearly every ship for the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons. So it is plain to see that indeed I have been an avid buyer in the past.
Now comes the new Romulan Tactical Warbird Carrier thing... I was ALMOST convinced to buy it but then the Fleet version came out. Now there was a more powerful version I could have which made the C-Store one obsolete. So pass on the C-Store version. As will be the case with many of these ships I also do not have access to a Shipyard high enough to get the fleet versions of these vessels (which can be said for a lot of Federation and even MORE Klingon players) so I am not getting the fleet versions either. So in other words, absolutely no-sale.
Next came the Avenger. I looked it over and found it to be an ugly ship but with some pretty decent abilities. However, the C-Store version comes with a pretty pathetic console and its stats make it inferior to my Tactical Odyssey. So I decided to pass. The Fleet version is strong enough that I would highly consider taking it over my Odyssey because while it is nowhere near as versatile it at least can dish out more damage. However, lack of that ship yard means no-sale again.
Finally comes the Mogh. I looked it over and found it to be a beautiful Klingon vessel with some decent stats. Its console is likewise a waste of space but it is still a pretty beefy ship that can compete. Yet my Tactical Bortasqu' murders the C-Store vessel in embarrassing ways besides in agility. So what about the Fleet Version? That is a tiny bit superior to the Fleet Vor'Cha but only slightly and I can currently buy the Fleet Vor'Cha but not the Fleet Mogh. Combine that with the fact that unless Agility is the major factor neither really best my Bortasqu' it is again a no-sale. Even if it did best my ship though the inability to actually acquire it would make it a moot point.
Then there are the Lobi ships... Heh... I know full well why Cryptic wants these to be awesome. If you play the game of using your keys to open boxes for the "Prize" ship then you may spend thousands of dollars for one ship. That is just stupid. Even the Lobi Ships cost around 200 dollars which is ridiculous to pay for a ship that is often only as good as a Fleet ship at best. However, the power of these ships and their ability to render other C-Store buys totally unappealing by comparison again hurts the C-Store market.
My conclusion and point to the Devs is simply this: If you are going to keep making new C-Store ships just pathetic previews of their Fleet counterparts that give me a console or gimmick that is not worth using and I cannot really get access to the Fleet Version of the ship because you always put it on a high Shipyard Tier then you are not going to get any money from me for your efforts. Considering that I LOVE new ships and testing their capabilities and actually make new characters just to fly them you are really shooting yourself in the foot and biting the hand that feeds.
A solution would be to make all C-Store vessels Fleet variants obtainable at ESD/New Romulus/The KDF Shipyard if you have already bought the C-Store version. Of course in this case you would probably need the full number of Modules instead of the reduced and will have to spend other things to the huge fleet we are all part of like EC's and maybe Dilithium.
The reason I say this is that most C-Store ships that are Tier V come with a single console as a major benefit that is often fairly lackluster. Other than that they have little to offer and none of the polish that other ships have. Fleet Vessels out perform them in every respect and Lock Box ships come with that same Fleet performance, their own special gimmicks, and full unique bridges. The only C-Store vessels that compete much are the 3-Pack ships which are great and the cheap lower tier vessels which you may want the console from.
I find it very hard to justify buying any Tier V C-Store vessel these days which is not a 3-Pack because it will not have a unique bridge in most cases, it will not have the stats of a Fleet or Lobi Ship, and its console will likely be just a weak gimmick at best. That is somewhat sad because I have bought nearly every ship for the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons. So it is plain to see that indeed I have been an avid buyer in the past.
Now comes the new Romulan Tactical Warbird Carrier thing... I was ALMOST convinced to buy it but then the Fleet version came out. Now there was a more powerful version I could have which made the C-Store one obsolete. So pass on the C-Store version. As will be the case with many of these ships I also do not have access to a Shipyard high enough to get the fleet versions of these vessels (which can be said for a lot of Federation and even MORE Klingon players) so I am not getting the fleet versions either. So in other words, absolutely no-sale.
Next came the Avenger. I looked it over and found it to be an ugly ship but with some pretty decent abilities. However, the C-Store version comes with a pretty pathetic console and its stats make it inferior to my Tactical Odyssey. So I decided to pass. The Fleet version is strong enough that I would highly consider taking it over my Odyssey because while it is nowhere near as versatile it at least can dish out more damage. However, lack of that ship yard means no-sale again.
Finally comes the Mogh. I looked it over and found it to be a beautiful Klingon vessel with some decent stats. Its console is likewise a waste of space but it is still a pretty beefy ship that can compete. Yet my Tactical Bortasqu' murders the C-Store vessel in embarrassing ways besides in agility. So what about the Fleet Version? That is a tiny bit superior to the Fleet Vor'Cha but only slightly and I can currently buy the Fleet Vor'Cha but not the Fleet Mogh. Combine that with the fact that unless Agility is the major factor neither really best my Bortasqu' it is again a no-sale. Even if it did best my ship though the inability to actually acquire it would make it a moot point.
Then there are the Lobi ships... Heh... I know full well why Cryptic wants these to be awesome. If you play the game of using your keys to open boxes for the "Prize" ship then you may spend thousands of dollars for one ship. That is just stupid. Even the Lobi Ships cost around 200 dollars which is ridiculous to pay for a ship that is often only as good as a Fleet ship at best. However, the power of these ships and their ability to render other C-Store buys totally unappealing by comparison again hurts the C-Store market.
My conclusion and point to the Devs is simply this: If you are going to keep making new C-Store ships just pathetic previews of their Fleet counterparts that give me a console or gimmick that is not worth using and I cannot really get access to the Fleet Version of the ship because you always put it on a high Shipyard Tier then you are not going to get any money from me for your efforts. Considering that I LOVE new ships and testing their capabilities and actually make new characters just to fly them you are really shooting yourself in the foot and biting the hand that feeds.
A solution would be to make all C-Store vessels Fleet variants obtainable at ESD/New Romulus/The KDF Shipyard if you have already bought the C-Store version. Of course in this case you would probably need the full number of Modules instead of the reduced and will have to spend other things to the huge fleet we are all part of like EC's and maybe Dilithium.
Post edited by hasukurobi on
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This is the reason behind buying C-Store ships before the fleet variant. The second fleet variant you buy with the discount costs $5 less overall than buying two without the discount, assuming it's a 4-module ship with a 2500 Zen C-Store counterpart.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yeah, all of that.
C-store ships become far more interesting the more toons you have as well.
Any Romulan KDF aligned is going to want to buy the ship with the plasmonic leech, for instance.
Once you start wanting more than one of something it makes sense.
And if the fleet version is something you might want more than one of, then C-store ships are almost mandatory.
Question: Why would I want to make more than one character to fly the same exact ship to begin with?
I know full well that Lobi/Lock box ships are massive rip-offs and thus very profitable for PWE and do not expect to see them really go away or anything. They are an ingrained evil despite how they basically destroyed any connection this game had to canon and immersion.
However, none of this really gets around the problem that if a player does not want to buy the "preview/weak" version of a ship and cannot purchase the "good" version because their Shipyard is not high enough tier that they will not be buying the ship at all. So absolutely no-sale made there. What I am saying is why not give their customers some way to buy the "good" version? (not Lobi/Lock Box ships just Fleet here) It is pretty daft to prevent your customers from buying your goods, especially in this sort of a market.
Plasmonic Leech comes from a non-Tier V ship. That is not what I am talking about. Those ships with useful consoles at lower tiers can be worthwhile because the console can be used on any Tier V ship. The Tier V C-Store Ships though are the ones with the problem.
Fair point.
You're right, lower tier ships are bought for different reasons than tier V ships.
We know we wont be flying those lower tier ships long, but often there's a nifty console that may be, at least, situationally useful at endgame.
Given that the price difference in zen between a fleet ship and a tier V ship is so small, some people are making the decision to do without the console in favour of the extra slot, hull and shields.
Take the advanced heavy for instance.
I'm torn at the moment.
I have a toon that definitely wants one and will definitely fly it. It's an excellent Fed endgame cruiser.
However, if at any point, I want a second toon to fly one its cheaper to buy the tier V one and then the single module for the fleets.
Question is, willi ever want a second one?
The answer in this case is probably.
Only one toon will fly it as a primary, but if its only going to cost me 500 zen to get a second one then I may well buy one for a tactical officer, or a science one.
Essentially, the purchase of the tier V ship allows me the opportunity to experiment later on, relatively cheaply.
I do see the issue, but I'm not sure i see it as black and white as you.
You're being a bit optimistic about the drop rate of Lockbox ships, don't you think?
Totally understand, with the following caveat.
This wont apply to all players but for myself, once i've got my toon into their perfect ship, bought or earned all the correct equipment and flown it enough to figure out how it all works.........then, sometimes I like to put that toon in a new ship, preferably a new type of ship, and see how they do.
Now, if I'd bought the tier V advanced heavy for a previous toon and then spent the extra 500 zen for a module to get the fleet version, I'd have spent exactly the same amount of zen as if I'd only bought the fleet version.
All of which means, moneths later when I'm playing around with another toon I can experiment with ship types and classes much more cheaply by buying tier V c-store ships.
This absolutely will not apply to everyone, but its the way it works for me and there are probably one or two people like me out there.
And I still don't have JHAS fighters for this WMD of ship.
lets be honest the costume department has been lacking a lot lately
my only major beef with any of it is making me pay another 5 bucks for a fleet version of the veteran ship....its a rewarded ship to us veterans don't make me shell out 5 bucks for it please....plus....for fleet versions...the stats need to be upped ALOT more for those vet ships.
That's my only beef.
Yeah, multiply it by a factor of 10 or 20 and you get closer to the actual drop rate. So it actually costs somewhere between $200 - $400 on average. And yes ... you can get incredibly lucky and get it after 5 lockboxes but also very unlucky and have nothing drop after 1000.
On average, based on stats gathered by players, it is 0.5 % (0.005) drop rate.
- Judge Aaron Satie
No one is forcing you to not get what you want, all you need do is join a fleet with high enough ship tier, possibly do a little contributing, and viola with modules and whatnot in hand brand new shiny ship is yours, but only for that character.
If your jhdc is wooping you scimitar, than you obviously are doing something wrong with the scimitar.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Probably it has something to do with the ridiculously extreme durability and immense firepower of JHDC (same tac capt, same fleet AP DHC wep). Anyway, I want JHAS pets, I want to laugh.
So don't use the store ship on the other character's, simple no? But to not have the option to experiment with those ships on other character builds is limiting choices, and could bite you in the butt later on.
Operative trait is not the only trait that helps, you have subterfuge, and infiltrator which helps, and not to mention the base dmg bonus just for uncloaking all go towards increasing romulan's damage output vs a ship that doesn't cloak.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!