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Fleet project sponsorship
blevok
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So, as anyone in a large fleet surely knows, earning fleet credits can often be difficult. You have to be online at just the right time to get to contribute to new projects. Most of the resources are filled nearly instantly, and most people don't get the chance to contribute much to the projects, which makes buying fleet gear a very slow process.
There's also a few other problems that can be addressed...
1. Fleets that have finished their holdings might have trouble generating a large amount of fleet credits for a significant number of people. Some people will go fleet hopping, donating to other fleets to earn credits, and returning to their t5 fleet to buy gear. Some will setup throw-away fleets just to get credits and trash the fleet when it's not needed. And i wouldn't be surprised if some fleets even kick people so they have less mouths to feed.
2. Small fleets, and Klingon fleets, which are often sister fleets to a FED fleet, constantly struggle to complete projects. Progression is slow, and the members that do stay active get frustrated and discouraged.
3. Hundreds, possibly thousands of fleets are sitting in limbo, with one inactive alt keeping it alive. They've put in a lot of resources, yet it's still just a drop in the bucket. Nothing can be done with it without making a monumental effort to revive it.
Now imagine a new fleet holding tab called fleet sponsorship (or something better)...
There would be like 5 project slots. Each one starts out as a fleet search. You search for and select a fleet. Then when a leader in the other fleet views a fleet project, there would be a sponsorship button on each project. He clicks it and selects which fleet can sponsor the selected project. Then the project appears in your sponsorship holding, allowing your members to contribute to the other fleets project, earning your members credits, and helping the other fleet make progress and earn provisions.
Bam. Fleet problems solved.
This idea could also be expanded on to create some kind of fleet alliance system, where fleets earn points toward some sort of fleet reputation system, which could open the door to various forms of cooperation, and possibly larger scale efforts of construction.
There's also a few other problems that can be addressed...
1. Fleets that have finished their holdings might have trouble generating a large amount of fleet credits for a significant number of people. Some people will go fleet hopping, donating to other fleets to earn credits, and returning to their t5 fleet to buy gear. Some will setup throw-away fleets just to get credits and trash the fleet when it's not needed. And i wouldn't be surprised if some fleets even kick people so they have less mouths to feed.
2. Small fleets, and Klingon fleets, which are often sister fleets to a FED fleet, constantly struggle to complete projects. Progression is slow, and the members that do stay active get frustrated and discouraged.
3. Hundreds, possibly thousands of fleets are sitting in limbo, with one inactive alt keeping it alive. They've put in a lot of resources, yet it's still just a drop in the bucket. Nothing can be done with it without making a monumental effort to revive it.
Now imagine a new fleet holding tab called fleet sponsorship (or something better)...
There would be like 5 project slots. Each one starts out as a fleet search. You search for and select a fleet. Then when a leader in the other fleet views a fleet project, there would be a sponsorship button on each project. He clicks it and selects which fleet can sponsor the selected project. Then the project appears in your sponsorship holding, allowing your members to contribute to the other fleets project, earning your members credits, and helping the other fleet make progress and earn provisions.
Bam. Fleet problems solved.
This idea could also be expanded on to create some kind of fleet alliance system, where fleets earn points toward some sort of fleet reputation system, which could open the door to various forms of cooperation, and possibly larger scale efforts of construction.
Fleet: Stargate-Union
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
Post edited by blevok on
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Ever since S8's reputation system changes came out, i'd been thinking about something along the same lines, albeit I think mine involved a single fleet project to which everyone contributed to, resulting in a "token" which could be given to another fleet to double their project XP. And you'd have one for the Starbase, one for the Embassy, Dil Mine, Spire and whatnot.
This, however, is a much better idea.
Big fleets need places to dump resources to get fleet credits. Small fleets need resources. Everyone wins. We just need Cryptic to roll out something, anything, that helps out fleets. (Cryptic, a new holding is not helpful for this issue.)
Wouldn't help with smaller fleets, but it would help out larger fleets and would be very easy to implement into the game. It is just adding a new project that doesn't give anything new. I can't see it taking 1 dev more than an hour to do it and I really doubt it would take that long.
The Fleet Sponsorship program would take far more work to do and I seriously doubt it would take a day to finish it since it seems like completely new code. A slight problem with this is that the Fleet Sponsorship program can be easily abused where the small fleet does nothing while larger fleets do all the work. So maybe sharing the workload is required. The small fleet has to contribute 25% to 50% of the resources while the large fleet donates the rest.
Because Large Fleets are desperate to donate to earn Fleet Credits, while Small Fleets have an abundance of Fleet Credits and struggling to advance. I can't fathom why the Dev Team keeps ignoring this issue?
Heck, in Bluegeeks Fleet Alliance thread, I thought it would be a good thing to have Large Fleets have like a donation system, where it would evenly distribute among small fleets, instead of a direct donation system. Because right now some Large Fleets actually have mule fleets that they donate to, so if there was a direct donation system for a small fleet you are aligned to, I could see them donating directly to their mule fleets, instead of honest small fleets who needs the help.
Let us help little fleets progress while helping ourselves with fleet cred.
As he said, win win.
Anything thats win win should be put in.
A quick fix is not whats needed. We need quality time spent on a quality improvement. All the problems i mentioned can be solved by one new system. It's worth it.
No, that's not a problem, and it's actually the point. The large fleet sponsors the small fleets project. The small fleet can contribute to it if they want, or not, or they could work out an arrangement. Setting any requirements like that will diminish the usefulness of the system. If there are any issues or disagreements between fleets, then either fleet can break the connection at any time. But having the large fleet completely fund the small fleets project is definitely a requirement for the system because it might be the best way to level a sister fleet.
Again, not a problem, and it would only make the system less useful if cryptic were to limit who and how much we can help. All that is needed is a section on the forum, and a chat channel to make connections. But i imagine that most connections would form through friends or in open chat.
Player provision projects... not sure about that, it kind of destroys the whole cooperative aspect, doesn't it?
Also, to address your #2, i dont think there's anything wrong with players only donating what they choose. Some people grind lots of dilithium, others grind lots of EC, others have lots of doffs, some people pay a lot of cash money, etc... Forcing people to donate what doesn't come naturally to them during their preferred play style turns it into work, and therefore, not fun.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
1) When a fleet elects to make a project eligible for sponsorship, that starts a 48 hour window in which that project can be sponsored. (Reason for this will become clear...)
2) When a fleet sponsors a project, that project takes up a slot until it is completed. It can't be dismissed or canceled. (This shouldn't be used as a mechanism to cycle through multiple projects to dump fleet marks)
3) The fleet that the sponsored project belongs to is anonymous. (Otherwise, I think that a lot of fleets will just use this as a shortcut to build up their sub-fleets without having to deal with fleet roster management. This is why the eligibility lasts only 48 hours, to keep the queues from being clogged with entries from dead/inactive fleets.)
4) Fleets should start with only one slot for sponsored projects. Additional slots would be earned by doing sponsored projects. (Because Cryptic LOVES progression systems.)
5) In addition to unlocking additional slots, progressing through the sponsored project system should also unlock progressive resource discounts, much like the dilithium mine, but smaller. (This creates an interesting game-theory situation in which the most efficient solution is for everyone to focus on sponsored projects. Very Star Trek. Very unlikely too, but that's life.)
Perhaps, but it will likely takes months for this to be done and all small fleets need to use the methods available to them to get the equipment. Namely, get to Tier 1 and run provision projects, then get a map invite so they can get the equipment they want. Small fleets can already do this so a quick fix is necessary until this get complete. While Large Fleets are suffering now. Besides there is nothing preventing both systems from being active at the same time.
It is a problem because fleets are supposed to do the work. If a fleet can get to Tier 5 without any effort, then there is a problem with the system. There is no worth to a fleet that gets someone else to do all the work for them. The small fleet is supposed to pull their own weight.
As for actual fleet resources for fleet stores, they need to devise a way for people to complete an individual reputation project earning them a single spendable resource for fleet stores every 20hrs for completion. This would not only allow fleets to no longer require a joint effort but, also frees up that slot for other needed projects. Heck you could even go so far as to say each time a member completes one of these a small amount of xp is awarded to the fleet (I know this isn't something greatly benefiting maxed fleet's but, it will aid ones still building and future holdings to come), think 5xp per completion to the project type it is meant for. An example would be someone want a resource to spend for the embassy, they pick either an eng/sci/tac project, fill the requirements and wait the 20hrs to complete. Now they have their individual resource to spend and, it gave the embassy 5xp in either eng/sci/tac that they chose from.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
There's no reason for a timer, or locking projects into slots. I'm not suggesting that this should open the door to aborting fleet projects. The project would simply be displayed in the sponsors fleet, and if either side chooses to end the sponsorship, then the project is removed from the sponsor fleets slot, but it would still exist in the other fleet and need to be finished.
According to the way i've described it, a fleet could even use the system to get help for only one specific item. Say for example, a fleet has an upgrade completely filled except for the thousands of fleet marks needed. They could have their already in-progress upgrade sponsored to complete it.
Also your point #3 doesn't make sense. If the fleet is anonymous, then members have no idea who they are helping, and it could very well be a different fleet than they were told they would be helping. But if the fleet name is shown on each sponsored project, members would recognise it as their sister fleet, or as whatever fleet the leaders announced in the MotD or fleet mail.
Indeed.
Without any effort? The effort is the same. What i propose is a direct pass-thru. When a project is added into a sponsoring slot, you view it just as the other fleet does. Anyone in either fleet can contribute and view the changes in real-time. It takes the same resources, and if a fleet does actually progress all the way up without any real activity except sponsorship, then i'd say the people who leveled it intend to take up residence at some point. And if not, who cares?
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
There are a lot of small fleets (mine comes to mind) out there who just do not have the members necessary to meet the gigantic dilithium (and other, but especially dilithium) requirements to progress a fleet, and it's difficult to attract members to a small fleet that can't provide the same amenities a larger, more advanced fleet can.
This sort of symbiotic relationship not only solves both problems for large fleets and small fleets, but it adds a new social aspect to the game -- more interaction with people, which is always a plus in an MMO.
I'd love to see this idea gain some momentum. It really is perfect.
maybe if people put as much effort into their fleet as they do thinking of ways to bypass the work required they would already have their projects in cd.
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what i dont like is any kind of welfare mechanic, or any 'scaling' system that is engineered to benefit the smallest, least-active fleets. often these types of proposals come down to something like that disguised as something to help advanced fleets generate fleet credit, ignoring the fact that most of those fleets already have created sister fleets (which arent 'throw-away' either btw).
so perhaps my comment above was not fair to the op, but it pretty much still stands as it applies to so many that have either replied, or will reply when they read the thread.
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Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
not every fleet created on esd today is going to be worthy of hitting t5.
not long ago i was on esd with a new toon i had created to take advantage of the Q double xp event. a guy was spamming over and over in zone chat that he needed 3 more people to create a fleet.
he started a fleet without a pre-existing 'community'.
i suggested that he may want to offer some ec to the founding members to as an incentive in order to get things going.
he had no ec, no resources whatsoever.
i volunteered myself and gave him the ec that enabled him to offer the founding members a million ec each. he quickly found his new members!
he immediately began spamming zone with recruitment messages as he began queuing projects. he queued every available project, including the 15xp 'special project'. not just one either. two!
he had no idea how to manage fleet members resources
i unlocked his bank tabs as a parting gift and left the fleet. i have no doubt that left to his own devices, that fleet will fail and will be lucky to ever make it past t1. and you know what? i dont think it deserves to. i dont think the fleet system has to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. i dont think every fleet that gets created has some intrinsic right to a t5 guarantee. if you dont have the resources to fund a fleet and are incapable of managing your own resources, you deserve to fail. if you do not have some sort of community, or even a gathering of people to start your fleet, you deserve to fail. if you cannot even use a bit of good judgement when queuing projects and are willing to TRIBBLE away resources on special projects when you have only 5 people in your fleet, you deserve to fail.
is that elitist? im sure many people think so. but to be quite honest, i am sick and tired of lazy fleet owners running stf instead of grinding fleetmarks. i am tired of these people waiting around for their members to grind dil for the base instead of doing what most of us have to do; convert zen to dil. i am sick and tired of them complaining that 'large fleet' are nothing but cesspools of drama and selfishness and politics and going on about how nobody does anything for the 'small' fleet while we invite all their members into our bases, kit them out, and give them a reason not to flee that fleet in search of greener pastures. nobody does anything for the small fleet... despite cryptic doing something with each major release to make it easier. seriously, how easy do you want it to get? do you think you should have to work for it at all?
so far as the op goes, i think its not a bad idea and i said as much already. what i like about it is that rather than rewarding laziness it instead provides a system to permit a fleet to form some sort of bond with another fleet. its a way for both fleets to become a part of something larger, rather than a 'scaled' welfare discount on fleet projects or the like. its an idea that i definitely have an interest in.
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The problem is that there is little value in joining a small fleet. If I invite someone and they see the starbase is only tier I, what's going to keep them there? I might argue that people who are 'lazy' would rather just join a large fleet and let everyone else do everything for them rather than try to make their own starbase.
No one should have to buy zen to convert to dilithium.
It isn't about laziness, it's about opening the game up in ways that benefit everyone. I agree, however, that the social aspect is a nice benefit as well. It can be pretty difficult to start a community, and this is a good way to get people involved with others.
Our KDF Fleet has a smaller Fleetmate Base that plays and our Holdings are very slowly progressing there. We could seriously use the help of a larger Fleet to help balance the terms of our Holding progression and give them the chance to earn more Fleet Credits.
Committed Fleetmates generally do not wish to leave their Larger Fleets and join a smaller Fleet, yet they have a need for Fleet Credits. While it is a logical development for the game to add a new Holding, a new holding is consumed and processed so quickly, many in a larger Fleet cannot contribute before others do. Adding a new Holding does not solve the problem for larger Fleets and just exacerbates the issues for smaller Fleets.
Allowing smaller Fleets to ally with larger Fleets and the building of a relationship for contributing resources for Larger Fleets' Fleetmates gain in Fleet Credits while helping smaller Fleets progress in their holdings are SUPERB IDEAS that would fit in with the ideals and goals of the game without allowing uncontrolled exploitation.
I have been approached by other Fleet Leaders proposing an alliance with our Fleets, which is a good idea; however, I saw no proper way to regulate the members' collaboration for both Fleets. A Fleet Alliance Registration would be seriously beneficial to STO Player Base and allow Fleet Holdings to be progressed like they should be for Smaller Fleets all while ensuring that those Fleetmates that wish to contribute resources for Fleet Credits - actually get to.
This can EASILY be accomplished by establishing a Fleet Ally Registration and the Fleet who has holdings they wish to allow the Allied Fleet to contribute can set permissions to allow this to happen. The Holdings show up on the other Fleet's Holdings and they can contribute as well and receive Fleet Credits. Fleet Leader of the smaller Allied Fleet can decide which projects to stage with visibility to the larger Allied Fleet.
I would love to see some DEV Feedback on this thread of ideas.
Personally, I am not fond of fleet hopping, but I completely understand the need to do so sometimes. Hopefully there is something being worked on. It is hard for both large fleets as well as small ones.
If the requirements to fill projects were smaller with slightly higher fleet credits rewarded, and the run times after they were filled were shorter, it would make a huge difference. Cutting a 20hour runtime down to about 5-10hours would make a huge improvement. It means that more projects can run in a day, and more fleet credits. But for that to help smaller fleets also, the cost will need to be lowered by a good bit too.
If the cost were the same, but runtime is lower, then small fleets would be in the same situation.
That might be the only other way to fix it.
Tim.