i wanted to start a post on the first day cryptic removed the option, but the forum didnt alooe me.
plz give this option back to us, many guys i talked to about this feel just like me and want it back.
for me this option is like hunting for "sales" in a market. after hours of flying i realy enjoyed a bit of hunting time for newly inserted cheap stuff. while interacting and having chats with the community. taking away this option, took away much joy of playing and as mentioned before many folks feel the same.
Another example what i used the option of newly inserted is: it happens that i am looking for a doff with certain skills. after going threw all pages i could not find a doff with that skill layout. then i could check every one or two hours just for new insertet "tac doffs" and look up the first 1 or 2 pages to see if the guy i am looking for is now available. but now i have to check every time the whole list from start to the end and that is no fun.
And last but not least what realy angers me, is that this option was pretty much one out of very few options in exchange that worked flawless and you decided to erase it.
So please bring back the joy of the Exchange back to us
i wanted to start a post on the first day cryptic removed the option, but the forum didnt alooe me.
plz give this option back to us, many guys i talked to about this feel just like me and want it back.
for me this option is like hunting for "sales" in a market. after hours of flying i realy enjoyed a bit of hunting time for newly inserted cheap stuff. while interacting and having chats with the community. taking away this option, took away much joy of playing and as mentioned before many folks feel the same.
Another example what i used the option of newly inserted is: it happens that i am looking for a doff with certain skills. after going threw all pages i could not find a doff with that skill layout. then i could check every one or two hours just for new insertet "tac doffs" and look up the first 1 or 2 pages to see if the guy i am looking for is now available. but now i have to check every time the whole list from start to the end and that is no fun.
And last but not least what realy angers me, is that this option was pretty much one out of very few options in exchange that worked flawless and you decided to erase it.
So please bring back the joy of the Exchange back to us
I did post about how upset I was that they removed the option to search for items by expiring time and it was quickly moved to another section of the forums.
The thing that bothered me the most was that it seemed like the reason that it was removed was because it did not function properly but that was total BS because it worked like a charm.
Now there is no way to see newly listed items in any category on the exchange and there was no reason for it to have been taken away.
The option to search by expiring time needs to be reverted back into the exchange.
The improvements that they made to the exchange are ok but I personally had no issues with the way the exchange function prior to the changes that were made.
for me this option is like hunting for "sales" in a market.
I suppose I can see this...if I assume that your idea of "looking for sales" is sending a servant to scour the stores for bargains and place them at your feet after doing all the work (you know, the "looking for sales") while you held down your easy chair and enjoyed a brew. :rolleyes:
Since the property is not viewable, you're not suppose to be using it...
It was 100% viewable and it work great, it could be used to see the newest items listed or even the oldest ones if you felt the need.
The search by expiring time filters were the only filters I really ever needed and I still do not understand why Cryptic would say that they were not working
I'll come at this from a standpoint of not understanding the fuss. The exchange is not an auction environment, so how does when something expire influence your buying an item over say lowest cost or lowest price per unit?
I'll come at this from a standpoint of not understanding the fuss. The exchange is not an auction environment, so how does when something expire influence your buying an item over say lowest cost or lowest price per unit?
It made it much easier to search multiple types of items at one time. Searching for instance Voth in the reward section by time expiring to see all the listed items from the voth pack as they where posted.
As it is now if you don't know what you are looking for exactly you can't search it by price expiring.
Time expiring is a pretty standard search element in every MMO I can think of. If Cryptic really felt this wasn't needed as there wasn't a list for expire time... then they could have just added an expire time.
Lets all be honest though the real issue they where looking to correct here was the use of exchange bots. I don't know for a fact such a thing is or has been used in STO... but removing features that legit players use because a few use them for nefarious purposes is a cope out.
This is basicly Cryptic being to lazy to code proper anti boting into there engine. This change does make it harder for such things to exist... but at the cost of player experience.
It made it much easier to search multiple types of items at one time. Searching for instance Voth in the reward section by time expiring to see all the listed items from the voth pack as they where posted.
As it is now if you don't know what you are looking for exactly you can't search it by price expiring.
Doesn't mean they were the best price you can have for those items, unless I missed something. They were just almost over. Which mean, by using this feature, and buying items, you were buying them for a higher price than by using the "price" filter.
Time expiring is a pretty standard search element in every MMO I can think of. If Cryptic really felt this wasn't needed as there wasn't a list for expire time... then they could have just added an expire time.
And those MMOs all have an auction feature. Searching by time left is a way to bid in the last minute.
STO doesn't have any kind of auction feature, making the "last second bid" useless.
Lets all be honest though the real issue they where looking to correct here was the use of exchange bots. I don't know for a fact such a thing is or has been used in STO... but removing features that legit players use because a few use them for nefarious purposes is a cope out.
It was removed because it was useless. As I said, the "search by price" is used for bidding in the last second of an auction (ensuring nobody else bid). Since there are no bid and auction in STO, the feature was useless. Some players said it was useless, dev agreed, and it was removed.
I think I get what the crux of their argument is, and it have very little to do with whether or not it ends soonest, but seeing a random assortment of things with the broad search parameters being used.
That said I dont know that many people search the exchange that way, heck Im still used to it being broken and having to drill into categories specifically to look for items and not trusting the broader searches to actually find everything in the first place.
And frankly, we dont really know that it was working 100%, without being able to see backend data vs front end, its all just a guess, and for all we know, there was sloppy code in the background causing more harm than good, not a great justification, but anything is possible.
Doesn't mean they were the best price you can have for those items, unless I missed something. They were just almost over. Which mean, by using this feature, and buying items, you were buying them for a higher price than by using the "price" filter.
Time Expiring decending... meaning the first on the list was the first posted...
So imagine ... searching for weapons with [acc]x3 and seeing all weapons with [acc]x3 as mods as they where posted... so if you post it and I hit search 2 seconds later your post would be at the top my list. (this is how bots would take advantage of such a search feature)... however it was also the best way to score deals on stuff you where looking for.
Yes searching with oldest stuff at the top of your list was unwise and useless... but searching stuff as it is posted is not.
And those MMOs all have an auction feature. Searching by time left is a way to bid in the last minute.
STO doesn't have any kind of auction feature, making the "last second bid" useless.
Simply not true many games that do not have bid features still have search by newest posted type options.
It was removed because it was useless. As I said, the "search by price" is used for bidding in the last second of an auction (ensuring nobody else bid). Since there are no bid and auction in STO, the feature was useless. Some players said it was useless, dev agreed, and it was removed.
I think I just explained how you where wrong. Not understanding how things work is your issue here.
The devs removed this as a back end to combat bots bottom line. The fact that they give some BS reason in there notes annoys me more then loosing the most useful exchange /market feature in any game.
So imagine ... searching for weapons with [acc]x3 and seeing all weapons with [acc]x3 as mods as they where posted...
You can still do that BTW, type [acc]x3, select weapon, and rarity.
Yes searching with oldest stuff at the top of your list was unwise and useless... but searching stuff as it is posted is not.
I get it. It was used to use other's mistake to make money, and having a wide range of items is indeed a good thing for that.
Now, I don't know if spending time on the exchange just so you can make a profit on other is a good thing.
The devs removed this as a back end to combat bots bottom line. The fact that they give some BS reason in there notes annoys me more then loosing the most useful exchange /market feature in any game.
Bot or not, you were still making money from people's mistakes. This feature was useful for you indeed, but what about those who made a mistake, and didn't have time to remove the item ?
You can still do that BTW, type [acc]x3, select weapon, and rarity.
You still don't get it... go ahead and do that and look at 4 pages of transphasic torps. Yes this change makes searching the exchange in a useful way take longer... and the bot guys are just going to be more specific in what they track down so Cryptic isn't really saving anything in that regard. What the search newest postings option did was reward people that KNEW the market and understood pricing. Knowing when a good deal popped up. This removes much of the intelligence needed to work the market. Yes I will continue to make EC off the exchagne... likely more now as my competition give it up or is slower at the snipe buy that obviously bothers you.
I get it. It was used to use other's mistake to make money, and having a wide range of items is indeed a good thing for that.
Now, I don't know if spending time on the exchange just so you can make a profit on other is a good thing.
Yes sometimes using that search method you make profit of others... you can still do that all day long... all this does is mean in between pvp matches instead of searching for multiple things I'm looking for in a couple min I have to sit there for 10 min tying things in which is stupid and annoying. Frankly its going to cost Cryptic paying customers.
Bot or not, you were still making money from people's mistakes. This feature was useful for you indeed, but what about those who made a mistake, and didn't have time to remove the item ?
Of course if you post something for a stupid price you are giving up profit that others will glady take. There is no crime in that, its a video game. Heck if you consider that immoral sign your home car and any thing else you own over now... cause our entire reality based system is immoral. (ok well perhaps it is, bad example) lol
This is a bad change and you know it... I have no doubt it was a lazy way to deal with exchange bots. Instead of coding things into the engine that would in fact remove those bots... they have simply gave the bot writers 20 min of work to code a couple extra arguments to there toys. It simply inconveniences legit players that don't feel like searching 10 items instead of running one search.
Exactly it was far from useless. What annoys me the most is Cryptic saying it was pointless so we are removing it.
At least be honest about it... and just say removed in order to combat bots... at least I could respect the honesty in that.
Hey if I'm wrong though and it really is that they don't understand how a market works ( which I don't believe ).
Then take notice... we don't consider it useless so put it back.
Tinfoil hat time, perhaps they yanked it to remove another method of making large amounts of EC in the game in order to bring the market/inflation rates to heel?
Just a shot in the dark here. But I am noticing that trend.
Hey I just vaped you, and this is crazy;
But here's my frequency, so hail me maybe?
If someone was using it, than it was useful. Why remove it if it is not doing anything wrong to those that were not using it. New changes could be implemented with "descending expire time" included. It was very useful if you ask me so no need to change something that was not broken and was doing what it was supposed to do: show newest items on market.
i think the most people that are complaining are because you could sort by newly listed.
then refresh over and over and hope someone pops a ship on with too few 0s.
then they could buy it before the poster had a chance to take it down and reprice it.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
If someone was using it, than it was useful. Why remove it if it is not doing anything wrong to those that were not using it. New changes could be implemented with "descending expire time" included. It was very useful if you ask me so no need to change something that was not broken and was doing what it was supposed to do: show newest items on market.
100% Agreed!
There was nothing wrong with the search by expiring time filter, it work 100% for the the end users needs and saying that it was not working was just total BS, I had been using it since it was added to the exchange and it was a great way to see many new items listed on the exchange fast and it was the best way to window shop for bargains and steals.
i think the most people that are complaining are because you could sort by newly listed.
then refresh over and over and hope someone pops a ship on with too few 0s.
then they could buy it before the poster had a chance to take it down and reprice it.
You can still do that now it just involves more search terms... all this change does is mean people with bots are going to snipe your ship if you fat finger it. So I would suggest you still pay attention when posting things that are valuable. Really what moron posts something worth 80mil for 8mil... pay attention... its a good life lesson if you loose something like that in a game... better to learn it here then in the real world.
Seriously though in all my time working the exchange... I have picked up an undervalued ship Once... and that wasn't a fat finger it was just someone posting a ship 20mil lower to move it fast.
What it was good for was searching a catagory like say Rewards... All at one time. Yes I would go do an STF a PvP waht ever... and check again 5-10 min later between playing... all this change does is force me to now waste 5 min between those playing times typing search arguments in... the bots btw won't care they can type faster then me. lmao
As the exchange had no auction-like attributes, I think sort by time was a good removal. And yes, I never used it.
As I said, there were those that were using it. And they kept using it as it was useful to them. Exchange need changes (to make better filtering of items), and removal of one of filter options that was used, isn't helping.
Horrid, horrid change. Has narrowed and changed the way that I play the game. Yes. Among other things I spend some of my time wheeling and dealing on the exchange. That won't stop, but the way I play it will. No longer are bargins either easily searchable OR advertisable. Has diminished a significant portion of my enjoyment of STO.
The claim that the information is not available is incorrect. It only takes half an hour and a bit of testing to realise that this information IS still available for searching (though I shall NOT be explaining my technique). Please don't flannel us with misleading statements. If the intent was to guard against misprices-in-error, I fear they are only marginally less vulnerable than previously.
In summary I am but one more voice to add to the choir that would like to see 'expire time' added back into the list of search options.
As I said, there were those that were using it. And they kept using it as it was useful to them. Exchange need changes (to make better filtering of items), and removal of one of filter options that was used, isn't helping.
Well, what might have been good then, is a public poll to see what percentage of the market users used that particular search argument (sort by time), and how often. But I've noticed most of the people posting in here never used it, vs a few that did. So yes, I guess it technically was "useful", using the people in this thread as a "rough sample", the numbers only supported "extremely limited usefulness".
I was more bothered by now, you have to be extremely particular in what category you're searching in, it was nice and convenient, to be able to just leave something in <All>, set up the rarity, and search for whatever, and it would come up with an accurate, current listing of stuff available. Now, if you wanr "Mines", you have to select, <Shipn Equipment>, then <Mines>, then set your rarity and search. And if you move off that page, like tabbing over to the "Sell" tab, or drop that window, then reopen it, you have to do it all over again. That's far more of a time waster, than losing the <Sort by Time> parameter, in my opinion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
It was a worthless, useless search option. Simply searching by price (per unit) from lowest to highest will get you the best deal.
The oldest auction isn't going to be the best deal. The newest auction isn't going to be the best deal. Why bother searching either?
The lowest price (or price per unit) is the best deal.
You've got it wrong. People used expiring time sorting to find the NEWEST items...you know, the ones most likely to have pricing mistakes.
And no, that won't always find the best deal for a specific item, but the users don't want that...they want a steal regardless of specific item type (could be a mk xii disruptor array, ciuld be the bug ship).
It is (was now in STO) a basic feature of a market search in any MMO. Cryptics removal is fine, what erks me the most is there masking of there reasoning for doing it. Saying it was a feature people didn't use is just plain wrong. (I still say they only changed it in a clumsy way to fight exchange bots)
There are some people happy to see it go because they feel the people that used it only used ti to snipe deals from people with fat fingers posting things for 2mil when they intended 20mil ect.
Sure that could happen... what it was more about however was quickly searching for a group of items all at one time.
For instance when a new lockbox drops... there now is gong to be items form those boxes that will have very very volatile pricing for days because people will simply not be aware they exist. Searching all the newest items day one of a lockbox gives you a very quick view of every item that is avalible (and the demand for those items, and even to some dgree the rate they are dropping)... and with in a few hours the market adjusts the pricing on those itmes and they remain pretty stable. As it exists now... those prices are not going to be stable... and people smart enough to know that. (those of us that where smart enough to understand search by time expire) will fix the market for you and prices are going to go up.
So those of you claming this is a uselss feature because you are upset you once let a ship go for 10mil instead of 100.... or a weapon go for 200k instead of 2mil... enjoy the new market dynamic.
Comments
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=941711
Since the property is not viewable, you're not suppose to be using it...
plz give this option back to us, many guys i talked to about this feel just like me and want it back.
for me this option is like hunting for "sales" in a market. after hours of flying i realy enjoyed a bit of hunting time for newly inserted cheap stuff. while interacting and having chats with the community. taking away this option, took away much joy of playing and as mentioned before many folks feel the same.
Another example what i used the option of newly inserted is: it happens that i am looking for a doff with certain skills. after going threw all pages i could not find a doff with that skill layout. then i could check every one or two hours just for new insertet "tac doffs" and look up the first 1 or 2 pages to see if the guy i am looking for is now available. but now i have to check every time the whole list from start to the end and that is no fun.
And last but not least what realy angers me, is that this option was pretty much one out of very few options in exchange that worked flawless and you decided to erase it.
So please bring back the joy of the Exchange back to us
I did post about how upset I was that they removed the option to search for items by expiring time and it was quickly moved to another section of the forums.
The thing that bothered me the most was that it seemed like the reason that it was removed was because it did not function properly but that was total BS because it worked like a charm.
Now there is no way to see newly listed items in any category on the exchange and there was no reason for it to have been taken away.
The option to search by expiring time needs to be reverted back into the exchange.
The improvements that they made to the exchange are ok but I personally had no issues with the way the exchange function prior to the changes that were made.
I suppose I can see this...if I assume that your idea of "looking for sales" is sending a servant to scour the stores for bargains and place them at your feet after doing all the work (you know, the "looking for sales") while you held down your easy chair and enjoyed a brew. :rolleyes:
Most stupid change I have ever seen in any game ever.
Thanks for narrowing down the mmos I have to waste my time on Cryptic.
It was 100% viewable and it work great, it could be used to see the newest items listed or even the oldest ones if you felt the need.
The search by expiring time filters were the only filters I really ever needed and I still do not understand why Cryptic would say that they were not working
It made it much easier to search multiple types of items at one time. Searching for instance Voth in the reward section by time expiring to see all the listed items from the voth pack as they where posted.
As it is now if you don't know what you are looking for exactly you can't search it by price expiring.
Time expiring is a pretty standard search element in every MMO I can think of. If Cryptic really felt this wasn't needed as there wasn't a list for expire time... then they could have just added an expire time.
Lets all be honest though the real issue they where looking to correct here was the use of exchange bots. I don't know for a fact such a thing is or has been used in STO... but removing features that legit players use because a few use them for nefarious purposes is a cope out.
This is basicly Cryptic being to lazy to code proper anti boting into there engine. This change does make it harder for such things to exist... but at the cost of player experience.
And those MMOs all have an auction feature. Searching by time left is a way to bid in the last minute.
STO doesn't have any kind of auction feature, making the "last second bid" useless.
It was removed because it was useless. As I said, the "search by price" is used for bidding in the last second of an auction (ensuring nobody else bid). Since there are no bid and auction in STO, the feature was useless. Some players said it was useless, dev agreed, and it was removed.
That said I dont know that many people search the exchange that way, heck Im still used to it being broken and having to drill into categories specifically to look for items and not trusting the broader searches to actually find everything in the first place.
And frankly, we dont really know that it was working 100%, without being able to see backend data vs front end, its all just a guess, and for all we know, there was sloppy code in the background causing more harm than good, not a great justification, but anything is possible.
So imagine ... searching for weapons with [acc]x3 and seeing all weapons with [acc]x3 as mods as they where posted... so if you post it and I hit search 2 seconds later your post would be at the top my list. (this is how bots would take advantage of such a search feature)... however it was also the best way to score deals on stuff you where looking for.
Yes searching with oldest stuff at the top of your list was unwise and useless... but searching stuff as it is posted is not.
Simply not true many games that do not have bid features still have search by newest posted type options.
I think I just explained how you where wrong. Not understanding how things work is your issue here.
The devs removed this as a back end to combat bots bottom line. The fact that they give some BS reason in there notes annoys me more then loosing the most useful exchange /market feature in any game.
I get it. It was used to use other's mistake to make money, and having a wide range of items is indeed a good thing for that.
Now, I don't know if spending time on the exchange just so you can make a profit on other is a good thing.
Bot or not, you were still making money from people's mistakes. This feature was useful for you indeed, but what about those who made a mistake, and didn't have time to remove the item ?
Yes sometimes using that search method you make profit of others... you can still do that all day long... all this does is mean in between pvp matches instead of searching for multiple things I'm looking for in a couple min I have to sit there for 10 min tying things in which is stupid and annoying. Frankly its going to cost Cryptic paying customers.
Of course if you post something for a stupid price you are giving up profit that others will glady take. There is no crime in that, its a video game. Heck if you consider that immoral sign your home car and any thing else you own over now... cause our entire reality based system is immoral. (ok well perhaps it is, bad example) lol
This is a bad change and you know it... I have no doubt it was a lazy way to deal with exchange bots. Instead of coding things into the engine that would in fact remove those bots... they have simply gave the bot writers 20 min of work to code a couple extra arguments to there toys. It simply inconveniences legit players that don't feel like searching 10 items instead of running one search.
key for 700k? - box ship for 40m?
you can make more ec at the key tab with ppu filter
i'll quote myself from another thread:
~support mandatory helmets for walking - lol~
At least be honest about it... and just say removed in order to combat bots... at least I could respect the honesty in that.
Hey if I'm wrong though and it really is that they don't understand how a market works ( which I don't believe ).
Then take notice... we don't consider it useless so put it back.
Tinfoil hat time, perhaps they yanked it to remove another method of making large amounts of EC in the game in order to bring the market/inflation rates to heel?
Just a shot in the dark here. But I am noticing that trend.
But here's my frequency, so hail me maybe?
then refresh over and over and hope someone pops a ship on with too few 0s.
then they could buy it before the poster had a chance to take it down and reprice it.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
100% Agreed!
There was nothing wrong with the search by expiring time filter, it work 100% for the the end users needs and saying that it was not working was just total BS, I had been using it since it was added to the exchange and it was a great way to see many new items listed on the exchange fast and it was the best way to window shop for bargains and steals.
You can still do that now it just involves more search terms... all this change does is mean people with bots are going to snipe your ship if you fat finger it. So I would suggest you still pay attention when posting things that are valuable. Really what moron posts something worth 80mil for 8mil... pay attention... its a good life lesson if you loose something like that in a game... better to learn it here then in the real world.
Seriously though in all my time working the exchange... I have picked up an undervalued ship Once... and that wasn't a fat finger it was just someone posting a ship 20mil lower to move it fast.
What it was good for was searching a catagory like say Rewards... All at one time. Yes I would go do an STF a PvP waht ever... and check again 5-10 min later between playing... all this change does is force me to now waste 5 min between those playing times typing search arguments in... the bots btw won't care they can type faster then me. lmao
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
As I said, there were those that were using it. And they kept using it as it was useful to them. Exchange need changes (to make better filtering of items), and removal of one of filter options that was used, isn't helping.
The claim that the information is not available is incorrect. It only takes half an hour and a bit of testing to realise that this information IS still available for searching (though I shall NOT be explaining my technique). Please don't flannel us with misleading statements. If the intent was to guard against misprices-in-error, I fear they are only marginally less vulnerable than previously.
In summary I am but one more voice to add to the choir that would like to see 'expire time' added back into the list of search options.
Well, what might have been good then, is a public poll to see what percentage of the market users used that particular search argument (sort by time), and how often. But I've noticed most of the people posting in here never used it, vs a few that did. So yes, I guess it technically was "useful", using the people in this thread as a "rough sample", the numbers only supported "extremely limited usefulness".
I was more bothered by now, you have to be extremely particular in what category you're searching in, it was nice and convenient, to be able to just leave something in <All>, set up the rarity, and search for whatever, and it would come up with an accurate, current listing of stuff available. Now, if you wanr "Mines", you have to select, <Shipn Equipment>, then <Mines>, then set your rarity and search. And if you move off that page, like tabbing over to the "Sell" tab, or drop that window, then reopen it, you have to do it all over again. That's far more of a time waster, than losing the <Sort by Time> parameter, in my opinion.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
The oldest auction isn't going to be the best deal. The newest auction isn't going to be the best deal. Why bother searching either?
The lowest price (or price per unit) is the best deal.
it's a basic feature - and 'no sorting' is not :P
You've got it wrong. People used expiring time sorting to find the NEWEST items...you know, the ones most likely to have pricing mistakes.
And no, that won't always find the best deal for a specific item, but the users don't want that...they want a steal regardless of specific item type (could be a mk xii disruptor array, ciuld be the bug ship).
There are some people happy to see it go because they feel the people that used it only used ti to snipe deals from people with fat fingers posting things for 2mil when they intended 20mil ect.
Sure that could happen... what it was more about however was quickly searching for a group of items all at one time.
For instance when a new lockbox drops... there now is gong to be items form those boxes that will have very very volatile pricing for days because people will simply not be aware they exist. Searching all the newest items day one of a lockbox gives you a very quick view of every item that is avalible (and the demand for those items, and even to some dgree the rate they are dropping)... and with in a few hours the market adjusts the pricing on those itmes and they remain pretty stable. As it exists now... those prices are not going to be stable... and people smart enough to know that. (those of us that where smart enough to understand search by time expire) will fix the market for you and prices are going to go up.
So those of you claming this is a uselss feature because you are upset you once let a ship go for 10mil instead of 100.... or a weapon go for 200k instead of 2mil... enjoy the new market dynamic.