I got the "Wing Commander" Trait
AND [Very Rare - Flight Deck Officer = Intercept +25% Accuracy
[ by the way "Intercept" Command is a bit buggy ]
[= sometimes Fighters stop doing intercepting and stand still, while the enemy is all aorund them ... sometimes]
Today i used them in the Sphere Area, after a century of loosing all of them them
in a blink of an eye, I got all twelve of them to RANG 5.
Then i encountered a group of Swarmers and Iconian Probes "piece of cake", ...... so i fought .......
- Fighters, intercept mode ON
- they disembarked from the hangers
- they buffed up [ Fire at Will 1 ]
- a very very long fight began
- after 1 minute and 32 seconds all my TWELEVE (Rang 5) Widows Fighters were GONE
[ my Carrier was doing nothing the hole time]
i was shocked
Then i tested the same senario with any available Fighters
every other fighter shredded this group in 30 seconds at most (without being Rang 5)
One "Elite Widow Fighter" hull shoots takes down about 3% of Swarmer' hull (3.721) per shoot.
IF you might think:
"Don?t complain, use "Tetryon Grid" and they are make up for it"
"Okay!"
Lets see, here are the Console stats: Tholian Tetryon Grid
"AoE Pet Energy Damage Buff and Attack"
Cooldown: 2 minute
[+33% All Energy Damage for 5 secs to all affected ally targets ]
[All Tholian Fighters reflect 2 Tetryon Beams for: 202 Tetryon Damage PLUS 2.5% Chance: -161.6 All Shields]
--> The "Tetryon Grid" effect destroyed up to 2 Enemy Fighters, thats all
They still died, most of the time
sometimes 3 victorious Survivors still stand
INFO:
The Tooltip of the Console scales up with YOUR Weapon Power and Consoles
!! BUT !!
What matters is Fighter Power levels and Equipment,
they only have 50 Weapon Power and no Consoles
--> so it is down to its basic 200 damage
--> that is reduced to your enemy shields and resistences
Advanced Combat Tracker Data
- [Tetryon Beam Array] =======> 4 to 191 damage*
- [Tetryon Dual Beam Bank] ====> 11 to 249 damge*
- [Quantum Torpedo Launcher] ==> 23 to 1.159 damage
- Tetryon Grid =============> 8 to 356 damage* [EncDPS of Tetron Grid 28.41]
- Beam Array: Fire at Will 1 ====> 15 to 249 damge* [Beam Array]
- Beam Array: Fire at Will 1 ====> 26 to 384 damage* [Beam Bank]
EncDPS of twelve surviving Rang 5 Fighters about 739.08 Damage
*the highest numbers are (rare) Critical (hull) Hits on from the [Elite Tholian Widow Fighters]
I agree with your analysis. I thought it would be a nice change to use Elite Tholian Widow Fighters in place of my Elite scorps. After laying down a hefty amount of dil (35000) in the Nukara rep I equipped them and found the same as you, they die really quickly.
They have about the same shields and Hull as my Elite Scorps, so I didn't really understand why it was so, and then I watched them in combat. Yes it is the aggro magnet FAW. Fire-at-will grabs a fair bit of aggro and they get targeted and hit more often and hence die faster.The Widows are actually not so bad, you just have to spam them more than other fighters. If they came with a -threat ability they might be worth the dil. I don't really use them as much anymore.
Yea, I parsed them months ago and they couldn't even out-DPS basic peregrines. Complete and utter waste of dilithium. I asked Cryptic if they could take a look at them during the carrier update, but got nothin'.
keep in mind that the Beam Array is almost constantly firing
because of the flight pass ... or should i am saying ... circling (orbiting) the target
I may be wrong, but the bug is that crit severity is not applying to critical hits - so it will show as a crit hit, but it doesn't actually do the extra damage. Eh, probably doesn't have much effect anyways.
I noticed ...
There are small damage numbers and they are BIGGER Numbers
they poping up all the time, (during the combat)
but they are not listed as Critical Hits and when they hit critical
they are bigger only with "Critical" in front of it
I noticed that [particularly / especially] in Ground Combat
with my Pulsewave Weapon Giant numbers all the time
but they are not (listed as) Critcal Hit(s)
Is this the crit severity ?
without being noted as critcal hit ?
Part of the problem is that as soon as they launch, they start spamming FAW which is indeed an aggro magnet. I would suggest to small modifications to make them worth the price you pay, because as it is, they die WAY more then a lower-tiered Advanced Slaver. Fact.
1. Reduce their threat generation a little
2. If you can't do that, give them a shield and/or armor buff.
3. Add in a short delay to their launch script so the don't do FaW as soon as they launch.
To be fair, I'm not sure that NPC Swarmers are a great test. They seem to eat my Elite Peregrines for breakfast in Spire missions, I assume the swarmers' better fire arcs outweigh the dual cannons and torps on the Peregrines.
One of my char flies a JHDC with the adv.Jemmie fighters, and they seem to be doing fine, although I have not taken this char in to the sphere yet, as I want to wait for my main to get Dyson T5 for the sponsor token.
Regardless of that, I have seen some players with the Voth Bastion flight deck cruiser, using the adv.Voth heavy fighters, and they seem to last quite some time before dying.
But I agree that some fighters seems to go pop as soon as they launch, especially against the Voth, whilst other places outside the sphere, they seem to last a tad longer, but in general, fighters go pop too quickly imo.
A small buff or fix would be appreciated, atleast so that fighters do not go pop as soon as you launch them. Goes doubly against the Voth...
The reason the voth kill fighters so fast is to make jh dread captains buy Zen for keys to sell for ec. That way they can get their bugship hanger pets.
To be fair, I'm not sure that NPC Swarmers are a great test. They seem to eat my Elite Peregrines for breakfast in Spire missions, I assume the swarmers' better fire arcs outweigh the dual cannons and torps on the Peregrines.
i didn?t test them only on Swarmers
i just discovered there weakness because of the Sphere Swarmers
It depends how the fight goes down,
if you are surrounded by spawning enemy fighters you lose a bi of advantage, but dont forget the (always firing) "Phaser Turret" + the Rapid fire skill
The other Scenario is a attack from 10 km away until they reach the "dog-fight" area
in that case your enemy groups are most likly destroyed or heavy damaged
If you try this Combat scenario with the Obelisk Carrier and your own Swarmers
you just kick theier butts out of sky.
Or your Elite Scorpions take them down with theier "Torpedo Carpet" technique ^_^
The reason the voth kill fighters so fast is to make jh dread captains buy Zen for keys to sell for ec. That way they can get their bugship hanger pets.
Not quite ...
The Voth are are most deadly to any kind of Fighter because
all theier Ships got "Fire at Will" and or high powered AoE Ability
for example if the a Voth ship spawns a Aceton Thingy
it gets destroyed, that causes a Shockwave that no fighter can survive
How do you think us Scimitar captains feel? We have a Scimitar. Naturally we want to run Scorpions in our hangers. Then Cryptic made a powerful fighter that was exclusive to Scimitars. Perfect opportunity, right? But no. They give us DRONES. Freakin' drones man. Not Scorpions. So we're killing things like crazy, but we aren't doing it in style.
Before you get all uppity about your hanger problem, think about that.
How do you think us Scimitar captains feel? We have a Scimitar. Naturally we want to run Scorpions in our hangers. Then Cryptic made a powerful fighter that was exclusive to Scimitars. Perfect opportunity, right? But no. They give us DRONES. Freakin' drones man. Not Scorpions. So we're killing things like crazy, but we aren't doing it in style.
Before you get all uppity about your hanger problem, think about that.
I know what you mean,
Scorpions are perfect for a Scimitar especially because of the Movie
and the Romulan / Reman Style
But i think the Drones are a very very good Romulan Hangar choice, too
but i would like have ONE Option. I want to control the "Holo cloack",
in my oppinion the original design of a "Drone" is magnificent
but they change theier appearance so fast :-(
Romulan Drone Ship Gear and Abilities:
* Disruptor Beam Array x3
* Plasma Torpedoes
* Multi-Spectral Emitters
* Tri-Phasic Emitters
* Beam Array: Overload: III
* Beam Array: Fire at Will: III
* Emergency Power to Shields III
* Multi-Spectral Emitter - Sensor Distortion II
Strong Hull + Good Shields
Very Best Hangar Pets STO has to offer
(didn't get my hands on the Voth Elite Heavy Fighters but i don't hold my breath on that)
The Voth completely stomp all over "fighters" with their massive FAW spam. So I'm a little dubious that the elite widows are the worst pets available when all fighters are basically pointless against the Enemy Of The Day. They need to be tested against enemies that aren't ideally equipped for anti fighter duty.
And the tetryon grid is a joke. It has been from the start. I already cried bitter tears on the forum about it when the Recluse was new, and again when the Mesh Weaver was introduced. Put it in your bank in case they ever decide to buff it some time in 2016. For now use something more useful. Like emergency force fields. :rolleyes:
For Recluse captains, get yourself some Mesh Weavers when the going gets tough. They survive much MUCH better with their 30K of hull strength.
Having used Elite Widows, Elite Scorpions, and Mesh Weavers on my Recluse... the Widows are probably my least favourite.
Their main advantage, it seems to me, is that if all or most of them are alive, the tetryon grid becomes much more viable as a weapon - I've seen it genuinely pack some punch against enemy shields with the Widows, whereas it's at best an irritation with the Mesh Weavers.
I think the Widows are at their best in a carrier-on-carrier fight, set to Intercept to take out incoming fighters and torps, while the mother ship does most of the work on the main enemy - hopefully, using the tetryon grid to soften them up. Even so... well, they're my least favourite, as I said.
(Kind of looking forward to the Tier 5 science facility on our starbase... I could happily go for Elite Mesh Weavers....)
Thanks for the analysis on this hanger; I was *this close* to commiting to the dil grind for the elite widow fighter. I was even considering getting about 200 or so ZEN to sell for dil to speed up the grind as I have about 1500 nukara marks. I'm going to stick with the elite scorpions for now. My fleet is about half way though starbase T4 anyway.
Yeah so about the whole Elite JH fighters thing, I have 2 wings, I usually run one on my JHDC with a wing of yellowstones. They're actually really good. They're not elite scorpions, but, when it comes to carrier pets you either run elite scorps or you don't, so....
But nah, EJHF's ae not an investment I regret. They're also great on intercept with those beam arrays, one wing will lock down a battlespace from torp spreads and enemy fighters easily.
Yeah so about the whole Elite JH fighters thing, I have 2 wings, I usually run one on my JHDC with a wing of yellowstones. They're actually really good. They're not elite scorpions, but, when it comes to carrier pets you either run elite scorps or you don't, so....
But nah, EJHF's ae not an investment I regret. They're also great on intercept with those beam arrays, one wing will lock down a battlespace from torp spreads and enemy fighters easily.
It's just lame how fighters as a whole are so off on the balance. There are a couple that are good and the rest suck. With the hugh dil investment, they should be way better than what they are, 'they' being all fighters in the game.
Yeah so about the whole Elite JH fighters thing, I have 2 wings, I usually run one on my JHDC with a wing of yellowstones. They're actually really good. They're not elite scorpions, but, when it comes to carrier pets you either run elite scorps or you don't, so....
But nah, EJHF's ae not an investment I regret. They're also great on intercept with those beam arrays, one wing will lock down a battlespace from torp spreads and enemy fighters easily.
Elite Jem Fighters are good but I find them to be redundant as Jem pets because I use Polaron on my ship and the proc doesnt stack, so any other energy weapon is often more useful.
They make all targets vanish to the players and make targets untargetable while the targets can still fire on you and the team
So yellowstones are the weakest because you cannot use them ...its like Trolling the team
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I parsed a few hangar pets during the last weeks. Widow fighters seemed dps wise on par with my swarmers. Scorpions did the best dps during borg stfs. Weakest pets were my elite voth fighthers. They have a lot hull to survive at least a bit of fire, but there dps is just half the dps of the other pets. I guess it has something to do with the backfiring torpedo..
It's just lame how fighters as a whole are so off on the balance. There are a couple that are good and the rest suck. With the hugh dil investment, they should be way better than what they are, 'they' being all fighters in the game.
its funny how every frigate is good, romulan drones are so powerful, they arguably count for 2 hangars of lesser pets, jem'hadar assault pet doesn't even need an explanation, mesh weavers have the ridiculously OP APB stack they can do, fer'jais used to be OP too, but they got hit by the tricobalt ridiculous nerf, now they're just... good, birds of prey are also good, if rather boring.
meanwhile only noteworhty fighters are the elite scorps for PvE and orion interceptors for PvP i guess.
Pets right now are just a messy afterthought. They have no clear roles, for the most part they all just try to do the same supplimental dps by slightly different methods to different levels of effectiveness.
Fighters should be ship-hurting Max-Evasion bombers or anti-fighter Uber-ACC interceptors, frigates should be ecm support craft that cast placates and decloaks or fighter pickets with aoe and high acc.
One: thank you for warning me of the terribleness of these pets. I was thinking of investing in some for my atrox but i see that would be a bad idea now.
Two: thank you for being someone who understands that if you have a problem with something you give some form of constructive feedback on the forums. There have been to many times of people posting "*blank* feels broken/deals low damage, please fix."
Three: as for the intercept bug, i found that after setting the individual hangers to the intercept function; setting the carrier commands still on the weapon tray will occasionally get the pets back going. OCCASIONALLY being the subject to player. it might just be me for all i know.
How do you think us Scimitar captains feel? We have a Scimitar. Naturally we want to run Scorpions in our hangers. Then Cryptic made a powerful fighter that was exclusive to Scimitars. Perfect opportunity, right? But no. They give us DRONES. Freakin' drones man. Not Scorpions. So we're killing things like crazy, but we aren't doing it in style.
Before you get all uppity about your hanger problem, think about that.
Speak for yourself, I love my drones, and I just have the dil-bought Advanced drones, and not the fleet elite ones.
As far as the OP, yes widows suck, for my fed I'm usually using deltas or runabouts, I have perigrines too; but they just die too quickly (though they themselves put out some descent damage, it doesn't do that good if they can't stay in the fight)... my deltas I use the most, I can usually get them up to 5-stars and keep em mostly there even in the eSTF space maps (or at least till we kill the bos, as more often than not the boss' warp core breach kills 'em in the end, but that's okay by that point).
Comments
They have about the same shields and Hull as my Elite Scorps, so I didn't really understand why it was so, and then I watched them in combat. Yes it is the aggro magnet FAW. Fire-at-will grabs a fair bit of aggro and they get targeted and hit more often and hence die faster.The Widows are actually not so bad, you just have to spam them more than other fighters. If they came with a -threat ability they might be worth the dil. I don't really use them as much anymore.
^_^ they are not Fighters, they are Devices ^_^
BUT you have a piont there
I should have been more accurate i am sorry
The weakest "END GAME" Equipment ... or ... Ultra Rare Hangar Pets
My Advanced Combat Tracker tells me they DO get Critical Hits, but
it always comes down to 1% or 2 % Chance
Critcal Hit table of a 9 Minute Fight (Tau Dewa Sector Block - Japori System)
2% - [Tetryon Beam Array] - [2307 Hits]
1% - [Tetryon Dual Beam Bank] - [943 Hits]
1% - [Quantum Torpedo Launcher] - [280 Hit]
0% - Tetryon Grid -[35 Hits]
2% - Beam Array: Fire at Will 1 - [Tetryon Beam Array] - [4122 Hits]
1% - Beam Array: Fire at Will 1 - [Tetryon Dual Beam Bank] - [1211]
keep in mind that the Beam Array is almost constantly firing
because of the flight pass ... or should i am saying ... circling (orbiting) the target
I may be wrong, but the bug is that crit severity is not applying to critical hits - so it will show as a crit hit, but it doesn't actually do the extra damage. Eh, probably doesn't have much effect anyways.
There are small damage numbers and they are BIGGER Numbers
they poping up all the time, (during the combat)
but they are not listed as Critical Hits and when they hit critical
they are bigger only with "Critical" in front of it
I noticed that [particularly / especially] in Ground Combat
with my Pulsewave Weapon Giant numbers all the time
but they are not (listed as) Critcal Hit(s)
Is this the crit severity ?
without being noted as critcal hit ?
i am confused ...
[Darlek Quote:] EXPLAIN ! (please)
Part of the problem is that as soon as they launch, they start spamming FAW which is indeed an aggro magnet. I would suggest to small modifications to make them worth the price you pay, because as it is, they die WAY more then a lower-tiered Advanced Slaver. Fact.
1. Reduce their threat generation a little
2. If you can't do that, give them a shield and/or armor buff.
3. Add in a short delay to their launch script so the don't do FaW as soon as they launch.
One of my char flies a JHDC with the adv.Jemmie fighters, and they seem to be doing fine, although I have not taken this char in to the sphere yet, as I want to wait for my main to get Dyson T5 for the sponsor token.
Regardless of that, I have seen some players with the Voth Bastion flight deck cruiser, using the adv.Voth heavy fighters, and they seem to last quite some time before dying.
But I agree that some fighters seems to go pop as soon as they launch, especially against the Voth, whilst other places outside the sphere, they seem to last a tad longer, but in general, fighters go pop too quickly imo.
A small buff or fix would be appreciated, atleast so that fighters do not go pop as soon as you launch them. Goes doubly against the Voth...
/tinfoil hat
i didn?t test them only on Swarmers
i just discovered there weakness because of the Sphere Swarmers
It depends how the fight goes down,
if you are surrounded by spawning enemy fighters you lose a bi of advantage, but dont forget the (always firing) "Phaser Turret" + the Rapid fire skill
The other Scenario is a attack from 10 km away until they reach the "dog-fight" area
in that case your enemy groups are most likly destroyed or heavy damaged
If you try this Combat scenario with the Obelisk Carrier and your own Swarmers
you just kick theier butts out of sky.
Or your Elite Scorpions take them down with theier "Torpedo Carpet" technique ^_^
Not quite ...
The Voth are are most deadly to any kind of Fighter because
all theier Ships got "Fire at Will" and or high powered AoE Ability
for example if the a Voth ship spawns a Aceton Thingy
it gets destroyed, that causes a Shockwave that no fighter can survive
Before you get all uppity about your hanger problem, think about that.
Actually having done some testing the elite Jem fighters are actually quite good and easily superior to the widows even without a torp.
I know what you mean,
Scorpions are perfect for a Scimitar especially because of the Movie
and the Romulan / Reman Style
But i think the Drones are a very very good Romulan Hangar choice, too
but i would like have ONE Option. I want to control the "Holo cloack",
in my oppinion the original design of a "Drone" is magnificent
but they change theier appearance so fast :-(
Romulan Drone Ship Gear and Abilities:
* Disruptor Beam Array x3
* Plasma Torpedoes
* Multi-Spectral Emitters
* Tri-Phasic Emitters
* Beam Array: Overload: III
* Beam Array: Fire at Will: III
* Emergency Power to Shields III
* Multi-Spectral Emitter - Sensor Distortion II
Strong Hull + Good Shields
Very Best Hangar Pets STO has to offer
(didn't get my hands on the Voth Elite Heavy Fighters but i don't hold my breath on that)
And the tetryon grid is a joke. It has been from the start. I already cried bitter tears on the forum about it when the Recluse was new, and again when the Mesh Weaver was introduced. Put it in your bank in case they ever decide to buff it some time in 2016. For now use something more useful. Like emergency force fields. :rolleyes:
For Recluse captains, get yourself some Mesh Weavers when the going gets tough. They survive much MUCH better with their 30K of hull strength.
Their main advantage, it seems to me, is that if all or most of them are alive, the tetryon grid becomes much more viable as a weapon - I've seen it genuinely pack some punch against enemy shields with the Widows, whereas it's at best an irritation with the Mesh Weavers.
I think the Widows are at their best in a carrier-on-carrier fight, set to Intercept to take out incoming fighters and torps, while the mother ship does most of the work on the main enemy - hopefully, using the tetryon grid to soften them up. Even so... well, they're my least favourite, as I said.
(Kind of looking forward to the Tier 5 science facility on our starbase... I could happily go for Elite Mesh Weavers....)
But nah, EJHF's ae not an investment I regret. They're also great on intercept with those beam arrays, one wing will lock down a battlespace from torp spreads and enemy fighters easily.
It's just lame how fighters as a whole are so off on the balance. There are a couple that are good and the rest suck. With the hugh dil investment, they should be way better than what they are, 'they' being all fighters in the game.
They make all targets vanish to the players and make targets untargetable while the targets can still fire on you and the team
So yellowstones are the weakest because you cannot use them ...its like Trolling the team
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
its funny how every frigate is good, romulan drones are so powerful, they arguably count for 2 hangars of lesser pets, jem'hadar assault pet doesn't even need an explanation, mesh weavers have the ridiculously OP APB stack they can do, fer'jais used to be OP too, but they got hit by the tricobalt ridiculous nerf, now they're just... good, birds of prey are also good, if rather boring.
meanwhile only noteworhty fighters are the elite scorps for PvE and orion interceptors for PvP i guess.
Fighters should be ship-hurting Max-Evasion bombers or anti-fighter Uber-ACC interceptors, frigates should be ecm support craft that cast placates and decloaks or fighter pickets with aoe and high acc.
Or something, idk.
Two: thank you for being someone who understands that if you have a problem with something you give some form of constructive feedback on the forums. There have been to many times of people posting "*blank* feels broken/deals low damage, please fix."
Three: as for the intercept bug, i found that after setting the individual hangers to the intercept function; setting the carrier commands still on the weapon tray will occasionally get the pets back going. OCCASIONALLY being the subject to player. it might just be me for all i know.
Speak for yourself, I love my drones, and I just have the dil-bought Advanced drones, and not the fleet elite ones.
As far as the OP, yes widows suck, for my fed I'm usually using deltas or runabouts, I have perigrines too; but they just die too quickly (though they themselves put out some descent damage, it doesn't do that good if they can't stay in the fight)... my deltas I use the most, I can usually get them up to 5-stars and keep em mostly there even in the eSTF space maps (or at least till we kill the bos, as more often than not the boss' warp core breach kills 'em in the end, but that's okay by that point).