Same way that the Mine Holding helped small fleets, because they said so.
I really should not be expecting much beyond gimmicks from this team, problem with raiders is 2 fold ... one that is they underarmed and this solves nothing on the bloated gazillion hp PvE enemies, especially now were throwing hoards became the standard and the other is survivability, simply BoP cannot withstand the amount of damage some of the latest enemies can dish out.
This is a extra tactical console except that it sucks because only works when the planets align, would anyone rather bring a BoP that a Battlecruiser when the Battlecruiser can deal the same or more damage with far greater survivability?
Are BoP viable for end game PvE? barely ... but what this does is being at most a marginal buff that requires wasting time to position to begin with for very dubious results.
Heck SA would been more useful then this, BoPs arent rogues ... and even D&D dropped the whole backstab mechanic.
- Post is about PvE
- Calls 25% more damage marginal and dubious
- Says a bop getting behind an npc is a waste of time, when a bop can do it in literally 2 seconds if it was 10k away turned the opposite direction
- Says BoPs have no survivability yet spend most of their time cloaked (or in case of Brel, never come out of cloak at all)
- Is obviously of the belief that one death to a 100k invisitorp crit that would kill pretty much anything else makes the bop useless somehow
My SciBop finds your post amusing.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
- Post is about PvE
- Calls 25% more damage marginal and dubious
- Says a bop getting behind an npc is a waste of time, when a bop can do it in literally 2 seconds if it was 10k away turned the opposite direction
- Says BoPs have no survivability yet spend most of their time cloaked (or in case of Brel, never come out of cloak at all)
- Is obviously of the belief that one death to a 100k invisitorp crit that would kill pretty much anything else makes the bop useless somehow
My SciBop finds your post amusing.
Yeah I think the problem is most players have never even used a bop so they have no idea what you can do with one lol.
The biggest thing in this game is most ships they do stat based improvements where as bops are basically based on piloting skill instead of sitting around not moving and hoping your stats hold out lol. Is just bops needed a little push like this flanking thing so they can get back into the game.
One thing I forsee with the new breen ship that I've seen over the years with birds of prey is some people are going to hate them, some will learn raiders just are not their cup of tea, and some will just put in the time needed to expertly pilot them.
No cloak and you want us to flank
At least it's somewhat usefull for PvP even though it has 4/2 weapons....WAIT :mad: No it's another useless ESCORT "The flanking bonus is DRASTICALLY REDUCED against players"
I honestly don't see a point playing the winter event. Two new coats that look ugly, and new PvE event and a USELESS ESCORT!
Did you ever hear of playing a game, FOR THE FUN OF IT????
Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
On the overall subject, it kind of irritates me that cryptic takes skill-based systems and tries to package them up like value-adds. I mean, small ships can already control the engagement and do not need additional damage buff to help with that. Likewise, decloaking alpha strikes are a huge benefit for skill-based encounters and do not need decloak damage buff to help with it. Does the playerbase need to be led into using combat tactics or something? This game needs more skill-based equipment and fewer training wheels. Fine, its carebear game, lets talk about what we got:
The ship stats look pretty good for the most part. I like the 29,700 hull, and hopefully the BOPs will be buffed to similar levels. The handling will be useful same reason as the corvette: no cloak means the enemy will see you coming from a mile away. The seating looks to be good for a variety of applications. The immediate issue I see with the stats is too few engi consoles which will make it hard to armor up.
If the damage buff is pre-weapon power (same as console) then 33% is not that much, it is about like adding another tac console, and it only works from one angle. But when you add that to the 5 existing consoles it is going to be just too much.
My suggestion is move the 5th tac console to engi, and set the flanking bonus to 25% pre-weapon power, so that it acts like a weaker 5th tac console but only from one angle. The ship will still be quite servicable in general combat, and still fragile enough to pop easily, and will keep the flanking buff where it matters.
Another option would be to simply buff the CritD when shooting from behind, so that critical hits were more severe. This would soothe some nerves and still have practical benefit.
The Plesh trades battle cloak (an ability that will change flanking from being something that will occasionally be possible to something that will be almost always devastating) for a damage-based console layout, ~5000 hull, and an extra Ensign boff slot. It loses out on turn rate and the loss of a uni Cmdr slot vs the fleet B'Rel, it's KDF eqivalent. I think this is a pretty fair balance - with the weak shield mod, and still-not-great hull, the ability to get in position to hit the rear shields is going to be marginalized in many encounters, the 5 tac slots is needed to get the damage up to make up for the rest of the time, given it only has 5 weapon slots. Your proposal to move that slot to eng makes the ship more survivable at the cost of damage output, and it's kinda counter to what the ship's concept is. From what I can see, it's a hit-and-run ship, running full throttle and trying to stay in the side arcs while turning to get that elusive rear alpha while staying out of heavy FA firepower.
. From what I can see, it's a hit-and-run ship, running full throttle and trying to stay in the side arcs while turning to get that elusive rear alpha while staying out of heavy FA firepower.
Ding ding ding
And anyone whos flown a bop already knows exactly how this is done >=]
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I have a question about the flanking bonus - obviously useless with the Borg??
2 eng - armor slots - 0.88 shield mod - and no cloak - how many npc's can you get behind before you are ripped apart??
Despite the fact that borg ships are geometrically symmetrical, the DO have shield facings, and one of them (the one on the bottom in the HUD, just like every other ship) is still the aft shield. It should actually be much easier to stay on that shield facing in a raider against cubes with their extremely slow turn rates.
Will BOP's get this flanking bonus as these are technically raiders as well
If I am not mistaken the cloak ambush's bonus should apply to the flanking so it will alleviate the issue of not having 5 tact console ships and let us be able to better customize our birds of prey
Didn't see post right above mine but yeah it'll be so great for bops I might bring all my klingon ships to all use bops after that unless I feel the need for a negh'var, vor'cha, or carrier lol.
Positive, near full universal setting
Negative, only 2 aft weapons
Positive, console bonus
Negative, no cloak
Positive, free
like it... wish the last years Breen ship had a near Universal Boff setting like this, now I have a hard choice so make
This tactical console stuff never made sense to me really. With just two tactical consoles I was able to make the level 30 version of the Galaxy do 8000 DPS in ISE.
Thats more than the average escort can do. Only dedicated minmaxers beat numbers like that.
You get so little return out of those tac consoles, honestly. They account for about 10-15% of your total damage with 5 of them.
The latest series of buffs given in 2 piece sets and now this, completely outclasses tactical consoles.
That being said, once the fleet ones start to flow into the game, that statement will change, as crit and critd are directly proportional to damage output.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Hull Strength: 29,700 Shield Modifier: 0.88
Crew: 50
Weapons: 4 Fore, 2 Aft
Can Equip Dual Cannons Bridge Officer Stations: Extra station so you can get boff bonus XXXX, TRIBBLE, XX, XX, X
Device Slots: 2 Console Modifications: XXXXX, XX, TRIBBLE
Base Turn Rate: 19 Impulse Modifier: 0.21 Inertia: 75
Bonus Power: +15 Weapon Power Abilities: Improved Flanking - temporary exclusive to this ship
Console Universal: Sensor Disruption Field
Can equip the Breen Energy Dissipator that is found on the Breen Chell Grett Warship
overall looks like a nice ship to pickup for free to me.
Good Hunting
To be fair, you should be comparing Fleet tier vs the Plesh Brek, since the Event ships tend to have 10 consoles. That said, even the Fleet BoPs lose either a boff ability (and always a seat/boff trait) or console slot, still have FAR less hull, lower impulse modifier and inertia, and nothing with 5 Tac consoles.
Also, if you've checked the Breen Energy Dissipator on Tribble, there is a 2-piece set bonus for using both Breen consoles. There are no set bonuses available to BoPs that equip two Universal consoles from the same ship type or category beyond the Bortasqu', which is definitely not an equivalent by any means.
Is there any fluff for explaining how the flanking damage bonus works in-universe?
I don't think I like the separation of PvE/PvP mechanics. I'd rather have a counter to it than artificial reductions.
And yeah, personally I'd rather see the same rules applied in both. Boosting damage in PvE to a greater degree is like nerfing PvE compared to PvP... it makes the learning curve even worse than it is now, which doesn't help PvP gain players. Then again, I considered the Speedballs in Infected: The Conduit (Elite) to be a good thing since they forced us to adapt our tactics, and players still get to run like that if they choose. That and of late Gravity Well has become much more effective anyway.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The enemy target interface towards the top of your screen has an arrow that points toward the current arc you are facing.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Beat me to it. I was wondering how people managed to miss that fact - it's pretty crucial for timing when skirting the edge between a down shield and one that is not when trying to turn inside an opponent.
It would be nice if they released a new costume for the hoh'sus other than its flying go'kart look so its new mechanic could go along with not having such a bad eye sore. Mostly just give its wings some clothes
The Plesh trades battle cloak (an ability that will change flanking from being something that will occasionally be possible to something that will be almost always devastating) for a damage-based console layout, ~5000 hull, and an extra Ensign boff slot. It loses out on turn rate and the loss of a uni Cmdr slot vs the fleet B'Rel, it's KDF eqivalent. I think this is a pretty fair balance - with the weak shield mod, and still-not-great hull, the ability to get in position to hit the rear shields is going to be marginalized in many encounters, the 5 tac slots is needed to get the damage up to make up for the rest of the time, given it only has 5 weapon slots. Your proposal to move that slot to eng makes the ship more survivable at the cost of damage output, and it's kinda counter to what the ship's concept is. From what I can see, it's a hit-and-run ship, running full throttle and trying to stay in the side arcs while turning to get that elusive rear alpha while staying out of heavy FA firepower.
Most fights are multiparty furballs that take place within a relatively small area, with gravwells, EWP, BFaW, pet spam, all going on, and your target is in there somewhere. BOP is more of a stalking ship, it doesnt survive in furballs, this is the biggest complaint with them. Non-cloaked lightly-armored ship is not going to fare any better at it, especially if you ever succeed--the enemy will move you up the priority list pretty quick. Pot-shot-and-run is all it can do, no stalking.
A new Ship called Raider ok, from Breen Ok but another Placate Console/Abbility like the Sensor Disruption Field? thanks NO!
And what you Guys planing, a Flank Bonus? And for KDF raiders +25? So a Rider have Decloak Bonus and ALL Raiders/Decloak Attacks starts in rear of Ship or have anyone seen a Decloak Attack in Frontside? No thanks, i dont want the Flank Bonus:mad: This starts the good old dispute "how can a small Ship Destroy with one Shoot my Cruiser".
It will be funny for PvE but i dont need it for PvP!
And please, remove the Subspace Integration Circuit from the Game!
Fleet Leader:Hellenic Space Force
Characters FED: TAC Ponos - TAC Tromos - ENG Athena - ROM TAC Phovos - SCI Martyrium - REM Apatros
Fleet: La Familia: SCI Stave
KDF Fleet: Syndicate of Shadows: ENG Sha'Kal
Comments
Fire your "Can't Target me" console which is AOE irrc and fly reallly fast
- Post is about PvE
- Calls 25% more damage marginal and dubious
- Says a bop getting behind an npc is a waste of time, when a bop can do it in literally 2 seconds if it was 10k away turned the opposite direction
- Says BoPs have no survivability yet spend most of their time cloaked (or in case of Brel, never come out of cloak at all)
- Is obviously of the belief that one death to a 100k invisitorp crit that would kill pretty much anything else makes the bop useless somehow
My SciBop finds your post amusing.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
A 19 turn is above the Defiant and below the Heghta, add the 75 inertia and this boat is fine.
R.I.P
Yeah I think the problem is most players have never even used a bop so they have no idea what you can do with one lol.
The biggest thing in this game is most ships they do stat based improvements where as bops are basically based on piloting skill instead of sitting around not moving and hoping your stats hold out lol. Is just bops needed a little push like this flanking thing so they can get back into the game.
One thing I forsee with the new breen ship that I've seen over the years with birds of prey is some people are going to hate them, some will learn raiders just are not their cup of tea, and some will just put in the time needed to expertly pilot them.
Did you ever hear of playing a game, FOR THE FUN OF IT????
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
use console that comes with it. its obviously not only meant for pvp, lol
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The Plesh trades battle cloak (an ability that will change flanking from being something that will occasionally be possible to something that will be almost always devastating) for a damage-based console layout, ~5000 hull, and an extra Ensign boff slot. It loses out on turn rate and the loss of a uni Cmdr slot vs the fleet B'Rel, it's KDF eqivalent. I think this is a pretty fair balance - with the weak shield mod, and still-not-great hull, the ability to get in position to hit the rear shields is going to be marginalized in many encounters, the 5 tac slots is needed to get the damage up to make up for the rest of the time, given it only has 5 weapon slots. Your proposal to move that slot to eng makes the ship more survivable at the cost of damage output, and it's kinda counter to what the ship's concept is. From what I can see, it's a hit-and-run ship, running full throttle and trying to stay in the side arcs while turning to get that elusive rear alpha while staying out of heavy FA firepower.
Ding ding ding
And anyone whos flown a bop already knows exactly how this is done >=]
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
But still i like the ship, and will go for that ship on WE.
In Soviet STO, Borg flanks YOU.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your sig has the answer.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Despite the fact that borg ships are geometrically symmetrical, the DO have shield facings, and one of them (the one on the bottom in the HUD, just like every other ship) is still the aft shield. It should actually be much easier to stay on that shield facing in a raider against cubes with their extremely slow turn rates.
you loose more dmg trying to get on your enemys aft side than you win with this bonus so its basically worthless
it makes raiders a bit more interesting aber not enough to make them viable is at least my opinion
Ambush grants a higher damage bonus than what you get from a 5th Tac console.
Battle Cloak also means that you will actually be able to get regular flank attacks on players.
Decloak Ambush + Flank will keep up with and potentially out do Romulan Decloak Ambush.
If I am not mistaken the cloak ambush's bonus should apply to the flanking so it will alleviate the issue of not having 5 tact console ships and let us be able to better customize our birds of prey
Didn't see post right above mine but yeah it'll be so great for bops I might bring all my klingon ships to all use bops after that unless I feel the need for a negh'var, vor'cha, or carrier lol.
Negative, only 2 aft weapons
Positive, console bonus
Negative, no cloak
Positive, free
like it... wish the last years Breen ship had a near Universal Boff setting like this, now I have a hard choice so make
Thats more than the average escort can do. Only dedicated minmaxers beat numbers like that.
You get so little return out of those tac consoles, honestly. They account for about 10-15% of your total damage with 5 of them.
The latest series of buffs given in 2 piece sets and now this, completely outclasses tactical consoles.
That being said, once the fleet ones start to flow into the game, that statement will change, as crit and critd are directly proportional to damage output.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
To be fair, you should be comparing Fleet tier vs the Plesh Brek, since the Event ships tend to have 10 consoles. That said, even the Fleet BoPs lose either a boff ability (and always a seat/boff trait) or console slot, still have FAR less hull, lower impulse modifier and inertia, and nothing with 5 Tac consoles.
Also, if you've checked the Breen Energy Dissipator on Tribble, there is a 2-piece set bonus for using both Breen consoles. There are no set bonuses available to BoPs that equip two Universal consoles from the same ship type or category beyond the Bortasqu', which is definitely not an equivalent by any means.
And yeah, personally I'd rather see the same rules applied in both. Boosting damage in PvE to a greater degree is like nerfing PvE compared to PvP... it makes the learning curve even worse than it is now, which doesn't help PvP gain players. Then again, I considered the Speedballs in Infected: The Conduit (Elite) to be a good thing since they forced us to adapt our tactics, and players still get to run like that if they choose. That and of late Gravity Well has become much more effective anyway.
The enemy target interface towards the top of your screen has an arrow that points toward the current arc you are facing.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Beat me to it. I was wondering how people managed to miss that fact - it's pretty crucial for timing when skirting the edge between a down shield and one that is not when trying to turn inside an opponent.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Why do we need another Breen ship?
If I want this ship to have it then you must make a Breen bridge.
There is a bridge for the special ships for example the new Voth ships, Elachi, Jem'hadar and etc.
But why no bridge for the Breen?
It would be even better and awesome to have a free Borg or Undine ship.
Most fights are multiparty furballs that take place within a relatively small area, with gravwells, EWP, BFaW, pet spam, all going on, and your target is in there somewhere. BOP is more of a stalking ship, it doesnt survive in furballs, this is the biggest complaint with them. Non-cloaked lightly-armored ship is not going to fare any better at it, especially if you ever succeed--the enemy will move you up the priority list pretty quick. Pot-shot-and-run is all it can do, no stalking.
And what you Guys planing, a Flank Bonus? And for KDF raiders +25? So a Rider have Decloak Bonus and ALL Raiders/Decloak Attacks starts in rear of Ship or have anyone seen a Decloak Attack in Frontside? No thanks, i dont want the Flank Bonus:mad: This starts the good old dispute "how can a small Ship Destroy with one Shoot my Cruiser".
It will be funny for PvE but i dont need it for PvP!
And please, remove the Subspace Integration Circuit from the Game!
Characters FED: TAC Ponos - TAC Tromos - ENG Athena - ROM TAC Phovos - SCI Martyrium - REM Apatros
Fleet: La Familia: SCI Stave
KDF Fleet: Syndicate of Shadows: ENG Sha'Kal