Sector Space

colonelmarik

I've been tooling around in the Dyson Sphere lately, and it occurs to me that Sector Space should be set up that way.

That is, you fly around from place to place, there are missions IN THE ZONE, there are enemy ships IN THE ZONE, and so on.

Right now, Sector Space is completely pointless. They should make use of their existing design for Dyson space and revamp Sector Space to resemble it.

o0kami87

I guess I'd be okay with this... the sector space would need to be bigger though.

sorceror01

The thing is....

The Dyson Sphere itself is much smaller than a single Sector in space. While as a construct it is enormous, it is still something that can be contained to one solar system among many, many more in even the smallest Space Sector.

While it would be neat idea, the way Sector Space works now is optimum for the scale it's supposed to be set at.

bluegeek

I wouldn't mind the idea of seeing "found" encounters and assignments popping up while in Sector Space, we already have that to a certain degree, but I really don't want to see combat going on there.

The gameplay reason I don't want to see it is because that's our non-Transwarp travel system to get from place to place. Any impediment to travel affects gameplay in a negative way. Granted that it's not nearly as big a problem as it would've been a few years ago, but still. Sector space is also a social area used for forming up teams prior to entering an instance, as a place to pick up DOFF assignments, and for interfacing with various vendors (freighters, merchants, etc).

If you need a canon reason, I've got one of those too. All combat in Star Trek is either at impulse speeds or synchronizing warp fields in order to force ships out of warp so you can fight at impulse speeds.

The reason being that two ships flying at warp speed within their own warp fields can't fire weapons that only travel at light speed. As soon as the weapon/energy leaves the warp field, it immediately drops out of warp unless it can generate its' own warp field. The only way you can have combat going on at warp speed is if all of the weapon fire is contained within the combined warp fields of both the attacker and the defender. Trek lore is reasonably consistent on this point.

dinoyipi

Little-known fact: According to the wiki (which should be taken with a grain of salt, because we all know how reliable wiki's are...) there used to be forced encounters. Similar to the deep-space encounters out there now, except that the enemy ship would chase you and engage in combat (at impulse speeds) when they got close enough, without the player's consent.

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ursusmorologus

Sector space is actually subspace for warp travel. Nothing should happen there. You should travel through it and that's all. Stuff only happens in system space. If you are intercepted or see something on scanners or whatever, you drop out of warp and go deal with it in system space.

stonewbie

colonelmarik wrote: »

The thing is, nothing happens in sector space. It's just a time sink, an elaborate lobby. I'm suggesting giving it a PURPOSE. Have things happening in sector space.

It's a time sink, an elaborate lobby and it's also a safe zone.

I wouldnt want to be restricted to a system like Sol, Qonos, Drozana or K7 if i want to take a few minutes break from playing the game. I dont want to afk for a few minutes in sector space and get surprise butseks from some NPC patrol while i am gone. If i want something to happen in sector space i will seek it out. Or i'll log onto EVE online where everywhere outside of a station is unsafe.

neoakiraii

The only thing that should happen in Sector space is a Subspace distress call

azurianstar

colonelmarik wrote: »

I've been tooling around in the Dyson Sphere lately, and it occurs to me that Sector Space should be set up that way.

That is, you fly around from place to place, there are missions IN THE ZONE, there are enemy ships IN THE ZONE, and so on.

Right now, Sector Space is completely pointless. They should make use of their existing design for Dyson space and revamp Sector Space to resemble it.

But it is the same. The only difference is that movement is restricted for the feel of warp travel and there is no transition graphics when changing sectors like we have with the Dyson space zones.

galadiman

erm, not to be pedantic, but in sector space, there are star systems which you can choose to enter and explore, enemy groups (like Borg cube groups) you can engage (but are not forced on you, which is a GOOD thing), merchant ships on trade routes you can interact with...

Seems to me there is plenty of stuff to do in sector space if you like...

galadiman

Also, it does serve one other purpose... it (barely) approaches giving a sense of scale. Because as we all know:

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." --Douglas Adams

bluegeek

ursusmorologus wrote: »

Sector space is actually subspace for warp travel. Nothing should happen there. You should travel through it and that's all. Stuff only happens in system space. If you are intercepted or see something on scanners or whatever, you drop out of warp and go deal with it in system space.

stonewbie wrote: »

It's a time sink, an elaborate lobby and it's also a safe zone.

I wouldnt want to be restricted to a system like Sol, Qonos, Drozana or K7 if i want to take a few minutes break from playing the game. I dont want to afk for a few minutes in sector space and get surprise butseks from some NPC patrol while i am gone. If i want something to happen in sector space i will seek it out. Or i'll log onto EVE online where everywhere outside of a station is unsafe.

neoakiraii wrote: »

The only thing that should happen in Sector space is a Subspace distress call

This, this, and this ^^^ I agree with all three, more or less.

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crypticarmsman

bluegeek wrote: »

If you need a canon reason, I've got one of those too. All combat in Star Trek is either at impulse speeds or synchronizing warp fields in order to force ships out of warp so you can fight at impulse speeds.

The reason being that two ships flying at warp speed within their own warp fields can't fire weapons that only travel at light speed. As soon as the weapon/energy leaves the warp field, it immediately drops out of warp unless it can generate its' own warp field. The only way you can have combat going on at warp speed is if all of the weapon fire is contained within the combined warp fields of both the attacker and the defender. Trek lore is reasonably consistent on this point.

^^^
Not true at all. Prime example from canon:

TOS episode "The Ultimate Computer" - in two separate ship to ship engagements, we have Spock and Sulu calling out changes in course and warp speed factors for the Enterprise and the other ships involved and firing phasers all throughout and calling hits and misses.

IE - there's no 'synchronization of warp fields' or 'dropping to Impulse speed' required. Yes, in STO currently, all combat takes place at Impulse speeds, but that's something imposed by Cryptic for their gameplay purposes. It has zero relation to what's appeared in Star Trek canon with regard to ship combat at FTL speeds. In Star Trek combat between ships both traveling at different warp speeds has been shown to occur.

blahhdrey

Leave sector space travel alone. That's my 'me' time.

stonewbie

colonelmarik wrote: »

But none of those is true. On the shows

You cant always use the reason 'well it wasnt that way in the shows'. There are certain things in the game that they intentionally make different just to accommodate players.

Doesnt matter how many examples you can cite from tv shows and movies. They made sector space a non combat zone, or rather they made it so that you can decide if you want to participate in combat. And thats that...you can keep saying "but but but..." nope doesnt matter, this is the one place where they said "well the show and movies did it this way, but this is a game so we are going to do it this other way".

Also Sector Space does have a purpose. It gives you a visual picture of what instance (system) you want to go to. It gives you encounters that you can go to and engage. It has doff missions that you can do. If you want to add more purpose to sector space thats fine. But you cant force it upon the player.

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starkaos

MMO just means that many people are playing the same game. There is no set course for what a MMO is supposed to be. Solar systems are where all the activity, creatures wandering around, places to visit and missions to pursue are supposed to be. This is not TOS, TNG, Voyager, or DS9. Each of those had a sense of exploration and our exploration is limited to the Exploration Clusters. We are cruising around in known space unlike the TV series so we are not going to stumble on a Black Hole, Supernova, or interesting space creatures. In other words, Sector Space is tame and boring. When we finally get to the Delta Quadrant instead of just being stuck in a Sphere, then we could get a more interesting Sector Space.

stonewbie

I've already said that i'm ok with adding more or better activities in sector space. BUT it should not be mandatory, it should stay optional. Make any new activities optional and you keep sector space intact as a social area, lobby and safe zone. You make encounters in sector space mandatory or the kind that you cannot opt out of then you cant accurately predict what the effects will be. Will sector space see a drop in population? will it see a rise in sector space population when the new content comes out then drop when people get sick of it? will sector zone chat look the same as zone chat with barely anyone saying a peep? will i see a bunch of fed tag...fed tag...kdf tag...kdf tag filling up zone chat?


My main issue is taking away the safe status. I'll say it again...i dont want to be stuck on Drozana with all the ERP people, or DS9 with all the super srs people, or ESD with all the gorn joke people, or Qonos with....well actually nobody is ever on Qonos so that might be an improvement for the klinks.

perfectworldsux0

dinoyipi wrote: »

Little-known fact: According to the wiki (which should be taken with a grain of salt, because we all know how reliable wiki's are...) there used to be forced encounters. Similar to the deep-space encounters out there now, except that the enemy ship would chase you and engage in combat (at impulse speeds) when they got close enough, without the player's consent.

Yes, this did happen, but as you leveled up encounters in certain sectors would ignore you and you would have to chase them. For instance, encounters in the Sirius Block would "chase" lieutenants, but not lieutenant commanders and up... etc.

Honestly... I kinda liked it. It made things interesting and sector space less boring.

perfectworldsux0

Overall, I think they should just make sector space just a tad bit more "realistic":

- I shouldn't be able to "eyeball" another ship 2 ly away... Scale them in at 10km like system space. Reallistically, you really shouldn't bump into anyone flying across the galaxy!

- When in sector space, stars shouldn't dominate your screen until you are within an AU of them. Look up! We're 1 AU from the Sun and it only takes up an extremely small fraction our sky and it's a yellow dwarf. When you are on the edge of a solar system, the star (unless it's a red giant or something) should just be much brighter than the background stars. When you enter the system, then the star should be much bigger.

My point is; Star Trek is fiction based on science. If you eliminate the facts and truths that are "science", then all you are left with is fantasy.

majorone1

I like the ideas here. I think space in STO needs to be ripped wide open. Meaning much much larger! You simply shouldn't be able to travel across all known space in 10 min's. I like the idea of perhaps getting jumped by hostiles and deciding to fight or run on the spot weather it's PVP or PvE. It would make the game way more interesting instead of just ho hum predictable as it is now.

ussintercept

dinoyipi wrote: »

Little-known fact: According to the wiki (which should be taken with a grain of salt, because we all know how reliable wiki's are...) there used to be forced encounters. Similar to the deep-space encounters out there now, except that the enemy ship would chase you and engage in combat (at impulse speeds) when they got close enough, without the player's consent.

This is true. They quickly removed it when people began to complain they didnt want to be continously harrassed by these encounters as they tried to move from Sector Block to Sector Block.

dirlettia

This was all part of another problem though. The alerts which chased us are still present as optional encounters but all have issues where they scaled to the captains present so even in Sirius new players were meeting level 50 klingons instead of level 9 resulting in vaped players. Had the same system been implemented while tour the universe was introduced then players would keep complaining they couldnt get round due to constantly being pushed into encounters they didnt want.

When grind is concerned the game needs to be predictable so people can plan how to achieve their current objectives without being overly hindered by optional mechanics. A compulsory PvP system would drive the game to desolation if it were introduced as new players and many PvE'ers would just give up and head off to the other games in their stables. What we have now is the best compromise we are likely to get, but maybe let folks who wish the hindrances can have a toggle maybe?

hawkhawkins

I'm for keeping subspace. I love flying from place to place.
I still do the tour daily.
If I were voting for how to change it i'd make it MORE relevant.
I'd vote to get rid of transwarps and slipstreams and subspace folding.
Get people back to making the dang trip for a change.
Why even call it a ship?
Transporter chief! Teleport me to my combat platform!
And then back again to here when my combat's over!
So that I never have to 'ship' anywhere.

snoggymack22

ussintercept wrote: »

This is true. They quickly removed it when people began to complain they didnt want to be continously harrassed by these encounters as they tried to move from Sector Block to Sector Block.

They didn't quickly remove it. It stuck around for well past the first year. Devs like Gozer even defended it when players complained.

mustrumridcully0

ashkrik23

colonelmarik wrote: »

The thing is, nothing happens in sector space. It's just a time sink, an elaborate lobby. I'm suggesting giving it a PURPOSE. Have things happening in sector space.

Actually, the Dyson Sphere discovered by the ENTERPRISE in Relics is a good example of what I mean. They were just travelling somewhere, and came across the Dyson Sphere. It was a random encounter. There have been random encounters in RPGs since the very beginning. I see no reason it can't happen here.

As far as getting from place to place goes, it's been largely taken out of the game. Whole crowds of people stand around in one place (K7 or Drozana, mostly) and just go from instance to instance. Mine Trap. Khitomer Vortex. Just queue up and poof, you're there. Sector space has been rendered largely irrelevant.

Now, for the "story" missions, there is travel involved, but the question is WHY are we made to travel? Nothing can happen along the way, so what purpose does it serve? In other games, there's a degree of challenge GETTING to where you're going. Consider, in the Lord of the Rings, the mission was to drop the Ring into Mount Doom. Everything else was stuff that happened along the way. Here, there's nothing that can happen along the way.

The wiki is correct (I've been here since launch). In the beginning, those big red balls in sector space were little ships that would pursue and engage the unwary (at which point they would become big red balls).

Not to be pedantic, Bluegeek, but watch The Ultimate Computer. The ENTERPRISE engages the war games group at warp speeds.

By that logic, traveling to work, school, or some event is a time sink.

theshushux

sector space it's just traveling place ..BUT it's not like that in st show..

this is really a good idea!
u can receive a pop up msg like
"unidentified ship on sensors" and u can decide if to drop out of warp or not
the missions/encounters/search and rescue/distress call will be random just like doff missions
after the removal of the clusters this can add to the feeling of exploration in sto

angrytarg

I don't know, I'd wish for them to remove sector space entirely. After all, I always get so confused when I get lost between ESD and Eta Eridiani, I feel many newbies are discouraged by that experience as well. Also, I feel traveling the galaxy really isn't up to Cryptic's high standard of gameplay content.