weapons like mauls often have chance to stun let alone placate as i remember
Weapons like mauls are heavy, two handed, and take longer than most others to execute their attack, so they can be easily evaded unless you are a heavy character yourself. How do you dodge DHC crits?
Also , PVP trying to break PVE again. I for one say No!
Most of the times, bugs get discovered in PvP because seasoned PvP players know what to expect from a certain ability and they can smell it when it behaves funny. In contrast to this, in PvE, there is either "ZOMG this thing hits HARD. Who cares why the ef this hits hard, lets just use it!!!", or "This thing sucks, not worth using it!", or "OMG, npcs are OP, nerf them!!"
Basically, if you only focus on PvE, your only concern is how fast you can kill npcs without dying yourself. Well, basically the ultimate goal of PvP is also the same, but where this differs from PvE is that in PvE, once u discover certain things work, you tend to stick to it. This basically means you don't explore your abilities as much, and you don't care if something is broken, as long as that 'broken something' is not hurting you. Case in point, you were quite happy with Valdore console when they were not behaving as intended, but I bet you were mighty worried when leech stacked against yourself for a few days. Amiright?
Most of the times, bugs get discovered in PvP because seasoned PvP players know what to expect from a certain ability and they can smell it when it behaves funny. In contrast to this, in PvE, there is either "ZOMG this thing hits HARD. Who cares why the ef this hits hard, lets just use it!!!", or "This thing sucks, not worth using it!", or "OMG, npcs are OP, nerf them!!"
Basically, if you only focus on PvE, your only concern is how fast you can kill npcs without dying yourself. Well, basically the ultimate goal of PvP is also the same, but where this differs from PvE is that in PvE, once u discover certain things work, you tend to stick to it. This basically means you don't explore your abilities as much, and you don't care if something is broken, as long as that 'broken something' is not hurting you. Case in point, you were quite happy with Valdore console when they were not behaving as intended, but I bet you were mighty worried when leech stacked against yourself for a few days. Amiright?
My name is X.
And i endorse THIS statement.
You are VERY right sir !
PVpers often whine about good pve items to get them nerfed. Remember the Valdore console that used to be good? Pvp did it.
And now the critical chance? Sorry, but that's not happening on my watch!
used to be good? Let me fix that for you: "use it for be god"
People using that console was inmortal in PvE, and in PvP in most of the situations.The healing score was making them win the 1st spot in cristaline entitiy all the time, a t'varo with that console was able of do more healing than a eng heal boat lol.
. Case in point, you were quite happy with Valdore console when they were not behaving as intended, but I bet you were mighty worried when leech stacked against yourself for a few days. Amiright?
Actually, I saw the Leech proc and the Crippling Fire proc and I thought "Huh, the Voth have some teeth. Well, whatever, they still go down."
Then I saw it proccing with everyone (the Borg in an STF, in my next little PVE fest) and I thought "Uh... what?"
Then some random Nausicaans started proccing it and I laughed, signed out of STO and checked the forums and sure enough, there's a thread about it.
True story.
Hey I just vaped you, and this is crazy;
But here's my frequency, so hail me maybe?
Well I don't think crit chance should be capped, but any procs that occur on crit (like the Romulan passive) need to have either cooldowns or immunize the target briefly.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Case in point, you were quite happy with Valdore console when they were not behaving as intended, but I bet you were mighty worried when leech stacked against yourself for a few days. Amiright?
To be honest I never noticed the leech thing, I have PI which resists it pretty well and most things outside the Voth and their immunity shield die too fast to really care when all I want to do is get the silly grind out the way.
I mean, I was away from my computer letting a bird smash the space bar into tiny fragments executing the same key bind while I wandered around the house going derpy derp derp.
Valdore console still gives a full shield heal very often if you have high average dps.
Disclaimer: 1st, 2nd and 3rd sentence are not directed at you Pokey
Disclaimer: 1st, 2nd and 3rd sentence are not directed at you Pokey
Well, I didn't take it as directed at me anyway.. so no worries there. Besides, I wouldn't mind even if they were directed at me, as long as they addressed the point and not the person. You know what I mean
Also, my earlier statement is a broad generalization of all things PvE related, does not mean everybody that exclusively PvE, are terribad. There are indeed a few brilliant people out there, just like there seems to be some a bit 'special' ppl in PvP community as well :P
Hrmmmm, don't mind me - I tend not to read many of the things I post either.
Okay, so sticking with the JHAS from the OP...
Base: 2.5%
Rom Op (Captain): +1.5% = 4.0%
5x Sup Op (BOFF): +8.0% = 12.0%
9 Specialization: +2.0% = 14.0%
INTERLUDE#1: We were discussing the merits of going to 9 in Specialization earlier, and I had to admit that it's something (imho) that I often do wrong. It's one of the sillier (imho) things to take to 9, but it's something I almost always do for some reason. Let's take a look at it, eh? The cost of it and the return of it, eh? Too many eh, eh? Okay then...
6 Specialization is 18k skill points (referred to as SP in the future). It provides +1.7% CrtH (& +21.2% CrtD).
Taking that to 9 Specialization, would cost another 9k SP. It would provide +0.3% CrtH (& +3.8% CrtD).
9k SP, eh? T1 is 1k/pip. T2 is 1.5k/pip. T3 is 2k/pip. T4 is 2.5k/pip. T5 is 3k/pip. So +0.3% CrtH and +3.8% CrtD for 9k SP...or...so many other places, eh?
Given all the sources of +CrtH out there now - yeah, it's definitely a headscratcher. Course, it's something I keep doing...meh. Okay, back to the list...
T2 New Rom - Precision: +3.0% = 17.0%
5x Vulnerability Locator (5/10*): +8.0% = 25.0%
*5/10 represents 5 of 10 consoles used. Will increment with additional consoles.
INTERLUDE#2: Okay, obviously if we're talking PvP and energy weapons (thus not using TS for the 100% to-hit with torps), we'd likely want some Acc - right? Thus, the reason I believe that the OP went with the single CrtH mod. However, this post is about trying to see the max CrtH...so...CrtHx3.
This interlude is more than about just that, though. Much like the first interlude, this is also going to involve a discussion on skill points - in relation to Weapon Mods.
[CrtH] = +2.0% Critical Hit
[CrtD] = +20.0% Critical Severity
[Acc] = +10.0% Accuracy
[Dmg] = +5.0% Base Damage
There's no suggestion with that, no thesis, no point that I'm going to try to get across. It's just information. So let's get back to the list...
Attack Pattern Alpha III*: +5.0% = 42.48%
*9 Starship Attack Patterns will get you the +5.0% CrtH, as well as other things...lalalala. I think it's definitely time that I linked the awesome Starship Skill Points Effects chart by vonamicus: http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm
There's gear, DOFFs, etc - that can boost that higher and increase the CrtH (&rest) even higher.
So is that it? Are we currently capped at 42.48% CrtH? Nope! We still have the potential for Accuracy Overflow to provide +CrtD & +CrtH. For each 10% to-hit you have over 100%, you get +5% CrtD & +1.25% CrtH. Normally I recommend downloading the spreadsheet from an ancient podcast, but Black Wyvern has got a nifty blogpost about it: http://blackwyvernarts.com/blog/?p=58
So yeah, you can push that CrtH even higher if the situation's right!
Okay, okay, okay then...yeah, the focus of the thread is on Sensor Targeting Assault (T4 New Rom Rep)...and yeah, taking into account various placate immunities - well, yeah - you're going to have a damn good chance to have your target wonder what's hitting them (cause they won't see you!)...
...but consider the following that's been added with S8 as well, eh?
Protonic Polaron Dual Cannons
That's right, DCs - not DHCs. DHCs are 2/3 RoF while the DCs are 4/3 RoF.
"And so?" you may ask. Protonic Polarons have a chance to do Protonic Damage when you Crit. Course, you can only get [CrtH]x2 (+4% and not +6%) if you went that route. But there's a 25% proc on a Crit to do Proton damage that ignores shields.
Is there a proc limiter of any sort on this? So many potential ways they might have - have they said there is? Has anybody seen one?
Let's say for a moment that there isn't one and go back to that JHAS, eh? Well, we 2pc Protonic Arsenal for the +3% CrtH - figure the Grav Photon and the Protonic Stabilizer (+3 Wep Power, +3 Eng Power, +17.3 Starship EPS, & +13.1% Proton Weapon Damage)...the 2pc also gives +22.9% base Photon damage as well as the +3% CrtH. Figure we've got the Kinetic Cutting Beam, just cause - but we're not entirely concerned about that right now (well, I'm not and I'm typing this...lalalala)...so then we've got:
That's 5 weapons with a 4/3 normal RoF (Rate of Fire, btw). That's 20 shots every 3 seconds...basically 20 shots every 2 seconds with a 1s delay. That's 20 shots that could crit and do that Proton damage...that ignores shields. Oddly enough, imho, the Proton damage listed for the Turrets is the same as the DCs (pretty much the same for all the weapons).
So yeah...so not only do these weapons have the chance to proc Polaron at you, have that chance to proc on Crit Placate at you if you took Sensor Targeting Assault, but they've also got that proc on Crit chance to do Proton damage direct to Hull.
So is there a proc limiter of any kind on the Proton damage? Cause, honestly, imho - if not, that's far greater a concern than Sensor Targeting Assault. Heck, mix in some Tet Glider, some Leech, some DEM, and yeah...heck, maybe 3pc the Protonic Arsenal and grab the Experimental to add in a BO with some EWO Pen DOFFs...as well as another +10% CrtD overall and an additional +10% CrtH for the Photon torps (your Grav Photon)...
...yep, I've got no idea what I typed here. I was disappointed that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was a repeat, though I can see them doing that to lead into next week's episode...so I've taken it all out on you guys. Mea culpa, exsto meus adversarius pessimus ac vado ad Tartarus...
Not sure - could simply be because it discusses mechanics above and beyond the impact in PvP...but we're not supposed to ask them why, because they're not supposed to discuss moderation.
Did you realize the irony in that sentence? No offense, just saying...
I don't exclusively PvP. I also enjoy PvE. When I put my PvP hat on I see it as a break in the game. When I put on my PvE hat I see a mechanic that will make the game even easier. Considering the hardest difficulty level isn't really that hard at all, mechanics that make the player stronger also make the game a little more boring.
Do I see the irony in my previous statement? No. Not at all.
Hrmmmm, don't mind me - I tend not to read many of the things I post either.
Okay, so sticking with the JHAS from the OP...
.
.
.
...yep, I've got no idea what I typed here. I was disappointed that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was a repeat, though I can see them doing that to lead into next week's episode...so I've taken it all out on you guys. Mea culpa, exsto meus adversarius pessimus ac vado ad Tartarus...
I take my hat off to your extraordinary knowledge of the game and the method in which you explain it.
@VD: Yes, there appears to be some sort of proc limiter on Proton damage from the protonic polaron weapons. Minimax was testing them out the other day on his max crit chance rom, and found that they procced far more infrequently than statistics would suggest.
@VD: Yes, there appears to be some sort of proc limiter on Proton damage from the protonic polaron weapons. Minimax was testing them out the other day on his max crit chance rom, and found that they procced far more infrequently than statistics would suggest.
Yes, I believe I was the one he was shooting at in that test (presuming he hasn't done another test). We also found out that the proc itself cannot crit, or at least we weren't lucky enough to happen to see it crit.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Because once again, people were asking to ruin pve for the sake of pvp. This does not belong in the pvp section, since it affects the 99% of the game's players who only play pve.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Comments
Weapons like mauls are heavy, two handed, and take longer than most others to execute their attack, so they can be easily evaded unless you are a heavy character yourself. How do you dodge DHC crits?
Elite Defense Stovokor
Most of the times, bugs get discovered in PvP because seasoned PvP players know what to expect from a certain ability and they can smell it when it behaves funny. In contrast to this, in PvE, there is either "ZOMG this thing hits HARD. Who cares why the ef this hits hard, lets just use it!!!", or "This thing sucks, not worth using it!", or "OMG, npcs are OP, nerf them!!"
Basically, if you only focus on PvE, your only concern is how fast you can kill npcs without dying yourself. Well, basically the ultimate goal of PvP is also the same, but where this differs from PvE is that in PvE, once u discover certain things work, you tend to stick to it. This basically means you don't explore your abilities as much, and you don't care if something is broken, as long as that 'broken something' is not hurting you. Case in point, you were quite happy with Valdore console when they were not behaving as intended, but I bet you were mighty worried when leech stacked against yourself for a few days. Amiright?
Elite Defense Stovokor
My name is X.
And i endorse THIS statement.
You are VERY right sir !
used to be good? Let me fix that for you: "use it for be god"
People using that console was inmortal in PvE, and in PvP in most of the situations.The healing score was making them win the 1st spot in cristaline entitiy all the time, a t'varo with that console was able of do more healing than a eng heal boat lol.
Sorry if we ruined your "inmortal mode" passive.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Actually, I saw the Leech proc and the Crippling Fire proc and I thought "Huh, the Voth have some teeth. Well, whatever, they still go down."
Then I saw it proccing with everyone (the Borg in an STF, in my next little PVE fest) and I thought "Uh... what?"
Then some random Nausicaans started proccing it and I laughed, signed out of STO and checked the forums and sure enough, there's a thread about it.
True story.
But here's my frequency, so hail me maybe?
Seems people don't agree with you.
DISMISSED.
im actually not joking or exaggerating
lol.
PvE is broken, and will always be. You don't need that crit chance to complete content in this game.
We don't need weak people like that playing PvP. So it's a good thing.
Remove crits entirely...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Jeez people. I expect BETTER of everyone here.
You are asking an entire FLEET to leave the game? :P
To be honest I never noticed the leech thing, I have PI which resists it pretty well and most things outside the Voth and their immunity shield die too fast to really care when all I want to do is get the silly grind out the way.
I mean, I was away from my computer letting a bird smash the space bar into tiny fragments executing the same key bind while I wandered around the house going derpy derp derp.
Valdore console still gives a full shield heal very often if you have high average dps.
Disclaimer: 1st, 2nd and 3rd sentence are not directed at you Pokey
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Well, I didn't take it as directed at me anyway.. so no worries there. Besides, I wouldn't mind even if they were directed at me, as long as they addressed the point and not the person. You know what I mean
Also, my earlier statement is a broad generalization of all things PvE related, does not mean everybody that exclusively PvE, are terribad. There are indeed a few brilliant people out there, just like there seems to be some a bit 'special' ppl in PvP community as well :P
Elite Defense Stovokor
Did you realize the irony in that sentence? No offense, just saying...
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
No, no, Acc just before crit, you can't crit if you can't hit the target in the first place
I agree, but I can't afford all ACC so I usually go ACCx2 CritH. I just wanted to banter a bit.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Okay, so sticking with the JHAS from the OP...
Base: 2.5%
Rom Op (Captain): +1.5% = 4.0%
5x Sup Op (BOFF): +8.0% = 12.0%
9 Specialization: +2.0% = 14.0%
INTERLUDE#1: We were discussing the merits of going to 9 in Specialization earlier, and I had to admit that it's something (imho) that I often do wrong. It's one of the sillier (imho) things to take to 9, but it's something I almost always do for some reason. Let's take a look at it, eh? The cost of it and the return of it, eh? Too many eh, eh? Okay then...
6 Specialization is 18k skill points (referred to as SP in the future). It provides +1.7% CrtH (& +21.2% CrtD).
Taking that to 9 Specialization, would cost another 9k SP. It would provide +0.3% CrtH (& +3.8% CrtD).
9k SP, eh? T1 is 1k/pip. T2 is 1.5k/pip. T3 is 2k/pip. T4 is 2.5k/pip. T5 is 3k/pip. So +0.3% CrtH and +3.8% CrtD for 9k SP...or...so many other places, eh?
Given all the sources of +CrtH out there now - yeah, it's definitely a headscratcher. Course, it's something I keep doing...meh. Okay, back to the list...
T2 New Rom - Precision: +3.0% = 17.0%
5x Vulnerability Locator (5/10*): +8.0% = 25.0%
*5/10 represents 5 of 10 consoles used. Will increment with additional consoles.
Assimilated Module (6/10): +0.92% = 25.92%
Tachyokinetic Converter (7/10): +0.76% = 26.68%
Zero-Point Conduit (8/10): +1.8% = 28.48%
Arsenal Synergy - 2pc Protonic (9/10): +3.0% = 31.48%
Weapon Mods [CrtH]x3: +6.0% = 37.48%
INTERLUDE#2: Okay, obviously if we're talking PvP and energy weapons (thus not using TS for the 100% to-hit with torps), we'd likely want some Acc - right? Thus, the reason I believe that the OP went with the single CrtH mod. However, this post is about trying to see the max CrtH...so...CrtHx3.
This interlude is more than about just that, though. Much like the first interlude, this is also going to involve a discussion on skill points - in relation to Weapon Mods.
[CrtH] = +2.0% Critical Hit
[CrtD] = +20.0% Critical Severity
[Acc] = +10.0% Accuracy
[Dmg] = +5.0% Base Damage
[CrtH] ~= 9 Energy/Projectile Weapon Specialization (27k SP) 2.0% Critical Hit (&includes +25% CrtD)
[CrtD] ~= 6 Energy/Projectile Weapon Specialization (18k SP) 21.2% Critical Severity (&includes +1.7% CrtH)
[Acc] ~= 5 Starship Targeting (10k SP) 11.2% Accuracy
[Dmg] ~= 1 Weapon Training (1k SP) 9% Base Damage
or [Dmg] ~= 1 Energy/Projectile Weapons (1.5k SP) 9% Base Damage
There's no suggestion with that, no thesis, no point that I'm going to try to get across. It's just information. So let's get back to the list...
Attack Pattern Alpha III*: +5.0% = 42.48%
*9 Starship Attack Patterns will get you the +5.0% CrtH, as well as other things...lalalala. I think it's definitely time that I linked the awesome Starship Skill Points Effects chart by vonamicus: http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm
There's gear, DOFFs, etc - that can boost that higher and increase the CrtH (&rest) even higher.
So is that it? Are we currently capped at 42.48% CrtH? Nope! We still have the potential for Accuracy Overflow to provide +CrtD & +CrtH. For each 10% to-hit you have over 100%, you get +5% CrtD & +1.25% CrtH. Normally I recommend downloading the spreadsheet from an ancient podcast, but Black Wyvern has got a nifty blogpost about it: http://blackwyvernarts.com/blog/?p=58
So yeah, you can push that CrtH even higher if the situation's right!
Okay, okay, okay then...yeah, the focus of the thread is on Sensor Targeting Assault (T4 New Rom Rep)...and yeah, taking into account various placate immunities - well, yeah - you're going to have a damn good chance to have your target wonder what's hitting them (cause they won't see you!)...
...but consider the following that's been added with S8 as well, eh?
Protonic Polaron Dual Cannons
That's right, DCs - not DHCs. DHCs are 2/3 RoF while the DCs are 4/3 RoF.
"And so?" you may ask. Protonic Polarons have a chance to do Protonic Damage when you Crit. Course, you can only get [CrtH]x2 (+4% and not +6%) if you went that route. But there's a 25% proc on a Crit to do Proton damage that ignores shields.
Is there a proc limiter of any sort on this? So many potential ways they might have - have they said there is? Has anybody seen one?
Let's say for a moment that there isn't one and go back to that JHAS, eh? Well, we 2pc Protonic Arsenal for the +3% CrtH - figure the Grav Photon and the Protonic Stabilizer (+3 Wep Power, +3 Eng Power, +17.3 Starship EPS, & +13.1% Proton Weapon Damage)...the 2pc also gives +22.9% base Photon damage as well as the +3% CrtH. Figure we've got the Kinetic Cutting Beam, just cause - but we're not entirely concerned about that right now (well, I'm not and I'm typing this...lalalala)...so then we've got:
Fore: Grav Photon, 3x Protonic Polaron DCs
Aft: 2x Protonic Polaron Turrets, Kinetic Cutting Beam
That's 5 weapons with a 4/3 normal RoF (Rate of Fire, btw). That's 20 shots every 3 seconds...basically 20 shots every 2 seconds with a 1s delay. That's 20 shots that could crit and do that Proton damage...that ignores shields. Oddly enough, imho, the Proton damage listed for the Turrets is the same as the DCs (pretty much the same for all the weapons).
So yeah...so not only do these weapons have the chance to proc Polaron at you, have that chance to proc on Crit Placate at you if you took Sensor Targeting Assault, but they've also got that proc on Crit chance to do Proton damage direct to Hull.
So is there a proc limiter of any kind on the Proton damage? Cause, honestly, imho - if not, that's far greater a concern than Sensor Targeting Assault. Heck, mix in some Tet Glider, some Leech, some DEM, and yeah...heck, maybe 3pc the Protonic Arsenal and grab the Experimental to add in a BO with some EWO Pen DOFFs...as well as another +10% CrtD overall and an additional +10% CrtH for the Photon torps (your Grav Photon)...
...yep, I've got no idea what I typed here. I was disappointed that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was a repeat, though I can see them doing that to lead into next week's episode...so I've taken it all out on you guys. Mea culpa, exsto meus adversarius pessimus ac vado ad Tartarus...
Not sure - could simply be because it discusses mechanics above and beyond the impact in PvP...but we're not supposed to ask them why, because they're not supposed to discuss moderation.
Why?
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
why does this section exist when the pvp forum exists, is a better question lol.
I don't exclusively PvP. I also enjoy PvE. When I put my PvP hat on I see it as a break in the game. When I put on my PvE hat I see a mechanic that will make the game even easier. Considering the hardest difficulty level isn't really that hard at all, mechanics that make the player stronger also make the game a little more boring.
Do I see the irony in my previous statement? No. Not at all.
I take my hat off to your extraordinary knowledge of the game and the method in which you explain it.
Yes, I believe I was the one he was shooting at in that test (presuming he hasn't done another test). We also found out that the proc itself cannot crit, or at least we weren't lucky enough to happen to see it crit.
Because once again, people were asking to ruin pve for the sake of pvp. This does not belong in the pvp section, since it affects the 99% of the game's players who only play pve.