Did it say anywhere that the implant was mandatory, or just that Sisko chose to use one? I can't recall, but at least personally I had not assumed Starfleet required such a thing. Especially since Jake would have been conceived when Sisko was in Starfleet, based on his time in grade to get to commander.
BTW, not sure, but there may be more Veska material coming.
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Did it say anywhere that the implant was mandatory, or just that Sisko chose to use one? I can't recall, but at least personally I had not assumed Starfleet required such a thing. Especially since Jake would have been conceived when Sisko was in Starfleet, based on his time in grade to get to commander.
BTW, not sure, but there may be more Veska material coming.
It didn't specifically state that it was mandatory, but I took Sisko's comment as implication that it was a routine thing... Equally, I suppose Alexander was conceived while Worf was a serving officer, so perhaps it wasn't mandatory, and I just misinterpreted Sisko's comment... In that case, I'll withdraw that objection, but I stand by my feeling that Woody didn't 'jump off the page' as some of the other characters have, and yay for more Veska :cool:
Jonsills--I thought the SAME thing when I saw STO's Quinndine! O_o You have no idea how shocked and horrified I was to see that idea actually come to life! (But it was an awesome kind of horror, if that makes any sense.)
For one horrified moment there, I thought they'd actually decided to run with your story, and we'd been reporting to an Undine all along. And it was kind of disappointing, in a way, when that turned out not to be the case - so far as we know...
For one horrified moment there, I thought they'd actually decided to run with your story, and we'd been reporting to an Undine all along. And it was kind of disappointing, in a way, when that turned out not to be the case - so far as we know...
I just LOVED that bit, and I had the SAME thought!
I really hope they make Quinndine canon. That would be SO awesome...
The protection issue was my biggest issue with it... When Sisko and Kassidy had a child, he said that he had forgotten to have his implant renewed, so the canon is that Starfleet officers are effectively 'chemically neutered' (which I have no issue accepting) so for two officers to make the same mistake at the same time, I found that a tad implausible given the canon. I wouldn't say I disliked Woody, and indeed, he did step up, I just didn't see enough of him (compared to the other characters) to really become connected to him enough to really care when he then didn't make it. On the flip side of that comment, I feel that Gul Veska has been woefully underused, and I found her to be an immediately captivating character... I can't even say that it is because I found her more 'relatable', as I have several friends who have been in both sets of circumstances, so it wasn't that I empathised with her more, I just didn't find Woody as engaging. Nell, on the other hand, yes, selfish and irresponsible, but, a Cardassian raised on Bajor and serving in Starfleet, she's a nicely complex character... :cool:
Sorry about that.
I tried to keep him visible and relevant, and I'm sure it would have been enough, if we weren't dealing with a ensemble cast of hundreds. I guess his voice just got lost in the chorus.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
It's OK, you succeeded with me. I hope that counts for something.
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I tried to keep him visible and relevant, and I'm sure it would have been enough, if we weren't dealing with a ensemble cast of hundreds. I guess his voice just got lost in the chorus.
Nothing to apologise for at all, and I wouldn't even say he got lost in the chorus,it was just that others, like Elim, Nell and Veska, really stood out and spoke to me as characters :cool:
re: The Quindine, I think it's very cool that he's been integrated into the STO narrative. What would really be mean, is if the real Quinn were to say "I never promoted these kids, strip their ranks and let them level up again..."
It's OK, you succeeded with me. I hope that counts for something.
Oh, it does.
And...*glances at the Emerson quote* I succeeded with what I intended to do with Woody as well. :cool:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Got a couple of typo fixes for you, patrick...overall, though, this is awesome!
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Sorry I didn't remember to let you know what they were last night, Patrick...there is one place where I have a messed up italics tag, and another place where, when we were adding quote marks, a line got missed. If you wouldn't mind fixing those for me, then this will be perfect.
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I was looking for a place where Ssharki could drop the line "The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated" but I couldn't make it work with the tone and direction we were taking.
I'm glad you enjoyed ride, anyway. :cool:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I was looking for a place where Ssharki could drop the line "The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated" but I couldn't make it work with the tone and direction we were taking.
I'm glad you enjoyed ride, anyway. :cool:
Very much so, as I have to admit, I really thought Ssharki was going to be a casualty... Glad things didn't go in that direction for him :cool:
I did not see the Luus section before it posted...
So good connection, having the giant thing being towed in the rift match to the data Luus saw earlier in the story. I am not sure I want to think what his odds of backing this would have been without seeing that match, but I think that was probably what tipped him over the edge.
Berat also had to choose there between his Starfleet and CDF orders. In only other fleet, I can only imagine how badly that would have gone...
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Berat also had to choose there between his Starfleet and CDF orders. In only other fleet, I can only imagine how badly that would have gone...
Well, for my part I can assure you that Grunt's opinion of that order would have been the same as La Roca's. And I assume that all militaries in the future will learn from the famed WWII example and permit personnel to disobey illegal orders...
Berat didn't like the Starfleet orders either, at all.
That said, the fact that he could use his CDF orders to provide cover for himself, his admiral, and his fleet was very much to his advantage. He hoped Jesu would accept that cover too, since having experience in the Cardassian resistance, he is very attentive to such opportunities. It will make it harder for anyone to go after him or his people, though I bet someone would try...
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Well, for my part I can assure you that Grunt's opinion of that order would have been the same as La Roca's. And I assume that all militaries in the future will learn from the famed WWII example and permit personnel to disobey illegal orders...
Berat didn't like the Starfleet orders either, at all.
That said, the fact that he could use his CDF orders to provide cover for himself, his admiral, and his fleet was very much to his advantage. He hoped Jesu would accept that cover too, since having experience in the Cardassian resistance, he is very attentive to such opportunities. It will make it harder for anyone to go after him or his people, though I bet someone would try...
That's the difference between the Cardassian way of thinking, and the way LaRoca thinks. The notion of taking 'cover' behind the CDF orders would never have entered his mind. Because as far as he's concerned, you don't have to hide behind someone else if you're standing up for what's right.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
That's the difference between the Cardassian way of thinking, and the way LaRoca thinks. The notion of taking 'cover' behind the CDF orders would never have entered his mind. Because as far as he's concerned, you don't have to hide behind someone else if you're standing up for what's right.
Of course, for clarification's sake, it isn't that Berat is a coward, even though I am sure LaRoca thinks that. To a Cardassian it is about getting into position to strike. When the powers that be are corrupt, it may take time and a series of maneuvers to get into position to pull off a takedown, and one must survive and hold one's position to do that. A Cardassian plays the long game and in many cases would save martyrdom until he or she is well and truly cornered, rather than going down prematurely when there could be more battles to be fought...or in a case like this, more differences to be made.
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Of course, for clarification's sake, it isn't that Berat is a coward, even though I am sure LaRoca thinks that. To a Cardassian it is about getting into position to strike. When the powers that be are corrupt, it may take time and a series of maneuvers to get into position to pull off a takedown, and one must survive and hold one's position to do that. A Cardassian plays the long game and in many cases would save martyrdom until he or she is well and truly cornered, rather than going down prematurely when there could be more battles to be fought...or in a case like this, more differences to be made.
There's also the question of what exactly constitutes an "illegal order" - and with the history of the old Union not that far behind them, I'm sure Cardassian soldiers aren't given a lot of leeway to decide for themselves which orders need to be obeyed. Having cover for the inquiry would be a logical next step for Berat; he may know that Starfleet officers have more wiggle room, but he may not have internalized this.
There's also the question of what exactly constitutes an "illegal order" - and with the history of the old Union not that far behind them, I'm sure Cardassian soldiers aren't given a lot of leeway to decide for themselves which orders need to be obeyed. Having cover for the inquiry would be a logical next step for Berat; he may know that Starfleet officers have more wiggle room, but he may not have internalized this.
From Berat's perspective, covering oneself also allows time to investigate and line up the pieces to bring down an illegal operation. Back in the bad old days, that was pretty much the only way dissidents could ever strike a blow: go undetected long enough to build up a lot of reserves and get a lot of intel on exactly what the whole network looked like that needed to come down, and then rip the rug out from under it in one spectacular strike, knowing that they would not be afforded a second chance. He's very much still of this mindset--he believes something is badly wrong with Quinn (he's not sure if Quinn was replaced or mind-controlled) and therefore he needs to protect his people long enough to gather intelligence and ensure the decisive success of a potential counterstrike. He's starting to feel like he's operating in similar conditions to prewar or Dominion-occupied Cardassia and that similar tactics are called for.
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On the current section: Elim has his revenge and has made a promise to "back off the politics"...but what I look forward to seeing is the fallout as he comes to terms with what for a Cardassian is NOT the normal way to do things. Additionally while he sometimes seems to pine for the old state, it would be very interesting to see if his having a hybrid in the family, and also having had closer contact with people like Gul Tassok, will (in addition to confronting the ugliness of the terrorists firsthand) at all shift his views.
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Comments
BTW, not sure, but there may be more Veska material coming.
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It didn't specifically state that it was mandatory, but I took Sisko's comment as implication that it was a routine thing... Equally, I suppose Alexander was conceived while Worf was a serving officer, so perhaps it wasn't mandatory, and I just misinterpreted Sisko's comment... In that case, I'll withdraw that objection, but I stand by my feeling that Woody didn't 'jump off the page' as some of the other characters have, and yay for more Veska :cool:
I just LOVED that bit, and I had the SAME thought!
I really hope they make Quinndine canon. That would be SO awesome...
Sorry about that.
I tried to keep him visible and relevant, and I'm sure it would have been enough, if we weren't dealing with a ensemble cast of hundreds. I guess his voice just got lost in the chorus.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
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Nothing to apologise for at all, and I wouldn't even say he got lost in the chorus,it was just that others, like Elim, Nell and Veska, really stood out and spoke to me as characters :cool:
re: The Quindine, I think it's very cool that he's been integrated into the STO narrative. What would really be mean, is if the real Quinn were to say "I never promoted these kids, strip their ranks and let them level up again..."
Oh, it does.
And...*glances at the Emerson quote* I succeeded with what I intended to do with Woody as well. :cool:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
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I was looking for a place where Ssharki could drop the line "The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated" but I couldn't make it work with the tone and direction we were taking.
I'm glad you enjoyed ride, anyway. :cool:
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Well, it helps to take the approach of "If you didn't see it die, it's not dead." :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
So good connection, having the giant thing being towed in the rift match to the data Luus saw earlier in the story. I am not sure I want to think what his odds of backing this would have been without seeing that match, but I think that was probably what tipped him over the edge.
Berat also had to choose there between his Starfleet and CDF orders. In only other fleet, I can only imagine how badly that would have gone...
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That said, the fact that he could use his CDF orders to provide cover for himself, his admiral, and his fleet was very much to his advantage. He hoped Jesu would accept that cover too, since having experience in the Cardassian resistance, he is very attentive to such opportunities. It will make it harder for anyone to go after him or his people, though I bet someone would try...
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Stay tuned for Season 3!
That's the difference between the Cardassian way of thinking, and the way LaRoca thinks. The notion of taking 'cover' behind the CDF orders would never have entered his mind. Because as far as he's concerned, you don't have to hide behind someone else if you're standing up for what's right.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Of course, for clarification's sake, it isn't that Berat is a coward, even though I am sure LaRoca thinks that. To a Cardassian it is about getting into position to strike. When the powers that be are corrupt, it may take time and a series of maneuvers to get into position to pull off a takedown, and one must survive and hold one's position to do that. A Cardassian plays the long game and in many cases would save martyrdom until he or she is well and truly cornered, rather than going down prematurely when there could be more battles to be fought...or in a case like this, more differences to be made.
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From Berat's perspective, covering oneself also allows time to investigate and line up the pieces to bring down an illegal operation. Back in the bad old days, that was pretty much the only way dissidents could ever strike a blow: go undetected long enough to build up a lot of reserves and get a lot of intel on exactly what the whole network looked like that needed to come down, and then rip the rug out from under it in one spectacular strike, knowing that they would not be afforded a second chance. He's very much still of this mindset--he believes something is badly wrong with Quinn (he's not sure if Quinn was replaced or mind-controlled) and therefore he needs to protect his people long enough to gather intelligence and ensure the decisive success of a potential counterstrike. He's starting to feel like he's operating in similar conditions to prewar or Dominion-occupied Cardassia and that similar tactics are called for.
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