I meant to post the other day, but got sidetracked... I really enjoyed it, and was completely drawn along by the plot :cool: I especially liked Raging Heart's reaction to the problem, and Gul Veska's thoughts :cool:
I meant to post the other day, but got sidetracked... I really enjoyed it, and was completely drawn along by the plot :cool: I especially liked Raging Heart's reaction to the problem, and Gul Veska's thoughts :cool:
Nice.
What did you think of what Sobaru did in this chapter? While at the time I hadn't planned it out exactly the way it happened, we've been foreshadowing and dropping hints for that particular bit since 2.3, and now that we've gotten to this point I'm curious as to how well people think we managed to pull off both the foreshadowing and the actual scene. :cool:
What did you think of what Sobaru did in this chapter? While at the time I hadn't planned it out exactly the way it happened, we've been foreshadowing and dropping hints for that particular bit since 2.3, and now that we've gotten to this point I'm curious as to how well people think we managed to pull off both the foreshadowing and the actual scene. :cool:
I liked it (and what happened to her) She wasn't a character I'd strongly connected to previously, and had enjoyed the reality check she'd previously gotten from Rusty, but this let her go out strong, so I felt it was appropriate and suitable, but also nicely handled :cool:
I liked it (and what happened to her) She wasn't a character I'd strongly connected to previously, and had enjoyed the reality check she'd previously gotten from Rusty, but this let her go out strong, so I felt it was appropriate and suitable, but also nicely handled :cool:
Glad to hear it.
Looking forward to getting more of this done, as well as some of the stories we have planned afterwards... :cool:
Raging Heart's dilemma rather reminds me of thisSchlock Mercenary strip. I hope she's going to be okay - does Starfleet have cyber-counselors?
Raging Heart's going to need a bit more than a cyber-counselor after this, Jon. Remember, she's a Sentient AI, with Free Will. She just caused over three hundred deaths of her own volition, even if they could be considered mercy kills. And if you'll remember Chapter 8.1, Admiral Berat and Commander Redmond discovered that she had Free Will, and aren't really happy...
Rather than asking if Starfleet has cyber-counselors, you'd better be hoping that Raging Heart manages to get a good lawyer... or barring that, friends with the appropriate skills to pull her butt out of the fire, whether those friends be in high places or low...
Not to mention this might also cause problems for other high-level AIs in Starfleet... such as Mycroft in the Bedford, for example, if you want to make any tie-ins, or even join us directly for future stories.
Well, Tagon's Toughs are mercs, so the laws aren't quite the same in that strip as in Starfleet, but In the wake of that incident, TAG underwent the cybernetic equivalent of a complete nervous breakdown; Lt. Ventura had to growpram a whole new personality for the computer. (The new personality, Tagii, had her own issues later, when she was disconnected from all sensory inputs for almost a day while still running - so by the time Ennesby reopened the firewall, she had been conscious and isolated for the computer equivalent of several centuries...)
In the case of Heart, I was thinking more of her long-term psychological well-being - she might well welcome deletion by the time it's all over.
Well, Tagon's Toughs are mercs, so the laws aren't quite the same in that strip as in Starfleet, but In the wake of that incident, TAG underwent the cybernetic equivalent of a complete nervous breakdown; Lt. Ventura had to growpram a whole new personality for the computer. (The new personality, Tagii, had her own issues later, when she was disconnected from all sensory inputs for almost a day while still running - so by the time Ennesby reopened the firewall, she had been conscious and isolated for the computer equivalent of several centuries...)
In the case of Heart, I was thinking more of her long-term psychological well-being - she might well welcome deletion by the time it's all over.
Point taken. I won't give away any major spoilers, though, so you'll just need to wait and see what happens.
Right now it's early on. Berat and Redmond are pissed at RH--and at anyone who may have hidden her--but they've got bigger fish to fry at the moment. If they survive, though, then they will have time to be pissed.
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Raging Heart's going to need a bit more than a cyber-counselor after this, Jon. Remember, she's a Sentient AI, with Free Will. She just caused over three hundred deaths of her own volition, even if they could be considered mercy kills. And if you'll remember Chapter 8.1, Admiral Berat and Commander Redmond discovered that she had Free Will, and aren't really happy...
Rather than asking if Starfleet has cyber-counselors, you'd better be hoping that Raging Heart manages to get a good lawyer... or barring that, friends with the appropriate skills to pull her butt out of the fire, whether those friends be in high places or low...
Not to mention this might also cause problems for other high-level AIs in Starfleet... such as Mycroft in the Bedford, for example, if you want to make any tie-ins, or even join us directly for future stories.
Don't forget, a command-level officer must pass a test to show they have the capacity to make such a judgement call... I think in this case, the question is not that RH made that call, but one of did she overstep her authority... Would Nahona have had the stones to vent the ship, and could she have given the order as quickly and effectively as RH could carry it out? Was RH 'anticipating the order'? (I believe a disciplinary infrigement but will check...) In the same vein as Hooper accidentally on purpose toasting the dude in his suit... Something to consider, is who wrote RH and why? For example, Claire was written as an upgrade from the LCARS system for a science vessel, she was not written to be a self-sufficient warship as the Andromeda AI was... (that AI is lurking in a subprocessor somewhere for a future adventure to reactivate )
Don't forget, a command-level officer must pass a test to show they have the capacity to make such a judgement call... I think in this case, the question is not that RH made that call, but one of did she overstep her authority... Would Nahona have had the stones to vent the ship, and could she have given the order as quickly and effectively as RH could carry it out?
Good point - an after-action report might well reach the conclusion that her action, while regrettable, was necessary for the safety of the ship. In that sense it's reminiscent of the part in the nBSG pilot where in order to put out a fire that's threatening the Galactica's fuel lines, Tigh orders adjacent compartments immediately decompressed, even though they haven't been evacuated yet. Lives were lost - but more lives, and the ship, were saved.
However, the CDF will certainly look askance at the fact that an AI had the ability to make that call. Mycroft couldn't, because he was an emergent phenomenon from a specialized SIGINT system, and was never designed to take command of anything (S31's cautions are more because they aren't certain of his capabilities). I get the impression that RH was written originally as a warship AI, so it should be within her operational parameters to do such a thing with the correct orders - and the illicit removal of her Asimov software gave her the ability to give herself the order (like the Zeroth Law - "A robot may not injure humanity, or through inaction allow humanity to come to harm," overruling all the other Laws of Robotics).
On the other hand, like I said, I can't see her coming out in a happy place after all that, unless she had the memory of having done that wiped completely from her systems.
Good point - an after-action report might well reach the conclusion that her action, while regrettable, was necessary for the safety of the ship. In that sense it's reminiscent of the part in the nBSG pilot where in order to put out a fire that's threatening the Galactica's fuel lines, Tigh orders adjacent compartments immediately decompressed, even though they haven't been evacuated yet. Lives were lost - but more lives, and the ship, were saved.
Absolutely, it was a 'needs of the many' call which had to be made, so I'd say RH did the right thing for the right reason, the question is one of procedural correctness, and if she should have waited to be ordered... On the flipside of the argument, emergency protocols exist for a reason... Emergency protocols made Claire's mobile emitter project a forcefield around Ael and Siri when they were caught in the cave in on New Romulus without her conscious choice of who or how to save...
Mycroft couldn't, because he was an emergent phenomenon from a specialized SIGINT system, and was never designed to take command of anything (S31's cautions are more because they aren't certain of his capabilities). I get the impression that RH was written originally as a warship AI, so it should be within her operational parameters to do such a thing with the correct orders - and the illicit removal of her Asimov software gave her the ability to give herself the order (like the Zeroth Law - "A robot may not injure humanity, or through inaction allow humanity to come to harm," overruling all the other Laws of Robotics).
Indeed, Mycroft is an altogether different AI, given he is separate from the ship's systems, rather than having control capabilities. I'd interpret the Zeroeth Law as being in line with Surak's maxim, that the action protected more than it endangered. Claire could take the same action, but I suspect would be reluctant to do so without direct order or very specific emergency protocols...
On the other hand, like I said, I can't see her coming out in a happy place after all that, unless she had the memory of having done that wiped completely from her systems.
Indeed... Such an occurrence caused the Doctor to behave erratically, but, as an EMH, that was likely due to a basic conflict with the Hipocratic Oath (although triage is still an important decision a doctor must be able to make) If RH was written as a warship AI, she should be able to come to terms with the action :cool:
RH isn't technically coded like a Warship AI (her representation in STO itself is a Female Science Android BOff), but given that the Wolfram is a Multimission Reconnaissance Explorer, it's likely she has some coding similar to a Warship AI.
Nice spoilers, Claire had better watch her TRIBBLE :cool: And that info on RH's programmer definitely explains some of her more quirky behaviours and tendencies As mentioned, Claire wasn't written as a Warship AI, but was installed over the Vanguard's native AI as part of the crew transfer. I think her reaction to having to take such action, would be like Sonny in I, Robot, rather than the Doctor's breakdown... (although to be fair, the Doctor was never designed to run for as long as he did, where Claire was designed for such extensive operations) in so much as she could do it, but definitely wouldn't feel good about it...
OK, minor spoiler period over - got scolded about potentially revealing too much info, so I thought I'd take my spoilers down.
In fact, I think I'll make that a bit of a rule - if I make any spoilers in the forums to any stories I am working on, they will be taken down within a day of being posted to avoid too many people reading them. Of course, I'll try to keep from making spoilers in the first place, but if something compells me to make them, they will be removed within 24 hours.
Apologies for any inconveniences.
Also, Marcus, since you quoted my 'spoiler' post, can you go ahead and at least remove the quote?
OK, minor spoiler period over - got scolded about potentially revealing too much info, so I thought I'd take my spoilers down.
In fact, I think I'll make that a bit of a rule - if I make any spoilers in the forums to any stories I am working on, they will be taken down within a day of being posted to avoid too many people reading them. Of course, I'll try to keep from making spoilers in the first place, but if something compells me to make them, they will be removed within 24 hours.
Apologies for any inconveniences.
Also, Marcus, since you quoted my 'spoiler' post, can you go ahead and at least remove the quote?
As always, a fantastic chapter :cool: But, I have to honest, I'm starting to find Lisa really really tedious, and I wish she'd gone out strong during the shooting... The "I'm a badass child soldier and know best" act has passed it's point, IMHO
It doesn't look to me like she's going to have a quick recovery from her injuries. Had she not been so seriously injured, she probably would have been acting on her threats.
Instead, it looks like Elim will be taking action. One note on Cardassian psychology: they are not a people to lightly take the law into their own hands, as the Moabites are. This is not an everyday occurrence you may be about to witness...
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It doesn't look to me like she's going to have a quick recovery from her injuries. Had she not been so seriously injured, she probably would have been acting on her threats.
Instead, it looks like Elim will be taking action. One note on Cardassian psychology: they are not a people to lightly take the law into their own hands, as the Moabites are. This is not an everyday occurrence you may be about to witness...
During the trial, and at the beginning of the story, Lisa was an intriguing character, but now, I feel she's become a bit of a broken record/Vera Lynn-esque Hero of the Forces, and might have served the plot better at this point, as a martyr. That's not to say I'm not enjoying it, because I'm finding the other Cardassians thoroughly enjoyable and engrossing (especially Elim) I'm just not enjoying her anymore... :cool:
Perhaps the first step to letting go would be for her to see that others can take care of her and take care of themselves...just a thought, since whether it "takes" remains to be seen.
I won't disclose it without Daniel's permission, but there was a rejected plotline that paved the way for some of things that are about to transpire. Our thoughts may have been closer to yours than you might have suspected--or at least, mine...I'll let Daniel speak for himself.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Perhaps the first step to letting go would be for her to see that others can take care of her and take care of themselves...just a thought, since whether it "takes" remains to be seen.
Maybe, I just feel like her path has plateaued somewhat, and I think had she died in the shooting, she would have gone out strong, where now, I fear she may 'fizzle out' and be overtaken by the other characters...
I won't disclose it without Daniel's permission, but there was a rejected plotline that paved the way for some of things that are about to transpire. Our thoughts may have been closer to yours than you might have suspected--or at least, mine...I'll let Daniel speak for himself.
Understandable, and I'll look forward to seeing what comes next ^_^ Might I trouble you for some thoughts on my recent collab with worffan?
I'm afraid not. I have not been following his work for a variety of reasons.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Comments
Looking forward to it :cool:
UndineQuinn is my favorite part.
Keep it up!
Nice.
What did you think of what Sobaru did in this chapter? While at the time I hadn't planned it out exactly the way it happened, we've been foreshadowing and dropping hints for that particular bit since 2.3, and now that we've gotten to this point I'm curious as to how well people think we managed to pull off both the foreshadowing and the actual scene. :cool:
I liked it (and what happened to her) She wasn't a character I'd strongly connected to previously, and had enjoyed the reality check she'd previously gotten from Rusty, but this let her go out strong, so I felt it was appropriate and suitable, but also nicely handled :cool:
Glad to hear it.
Looking forward to getting more of this done, as well as some of the stories we have planned afterwards... :cool:
Looking forward to reading them all :cool:
Raging Heart's going to need a bit more than a cyber-counselor after this, Jon. Remember, she's a Sentient AI, with Free Will. She just caused over three hundred deaths of her own volition, even if they could be considered mercy kills. And if you'll remember Chapter 8.1, Admiral Berat and Commander Redmond discovered that she had Free Will, and aren't really happy...
Rather than asking if Starfleet has cyber-counselors, you'd better be hoping that Raging Heart manages to get a good lawyer... or barring that, friends with the appropriate skills to pull her butt out of the fire, whether those friends be in high places or low...
Not to mention this might also cause problems for other high-level AIs in Starfleet... such as Mycroft in the Bedford, for example, if you want to make any tie-ins, or even join us directly for future stories.
In the case of Heart, I was thinking more of her long-term psychological well-being - she might well welcome deletion by the time it's all over.
Point taken. I won't give away any major spoilers, though, so you'll just need to wait and see what happens.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
However, the CDF will certainly look askance at the fact that an AI had the ability to make that call. Mycroft couldn't, because he was an emergent phenomenon from a specialized SIGINT system, and was never designed to take command of anything (S31's cautions are more because they aren't certain of his capabilities). I get the impression that RH was written originally as a warship AI, so it should be within her operational parameters to do such a thing with the correct orders - and the illicit removal of her Asimov software gave her the ability to give herself the order (like the Zeroth Law - "A robot may not injure humanity, or through inaction allow humanity to come to harm," overruling all the other Laws of Robotics).
On the other hand, like I said, I can't see her coming out in a happy place after all that, unless she had the memory of having done that wiped completely from her systems.
Absolutely so, they really don't like that kind of thing
Indeed, Mycroft is an altogether different AI, given he is separate from the ship's systems, rather than having control capabilities. I'd interpret the Zeroeth Law as being in line with Surak's maxim, that the action protected more than it endangered. Claire could take the same action, but I suspect would be reluctant to do so without direct order or very specific emergency protocols...
Indeed... Such an occurrence caused the Doctor to behave erratically, but, as an EMH, that was likely due to a basic conflict with the Hipocratic Oath (although triage is still an important decision a doctor must be able to make) If RH was written as a warship AI, she should be able to come to terms with the action :cool:
Nice spoilers, Claire had better watch her TRIBBLE :cool: And that info on RH's programmer definitely explains some of her more quirky behaviours and tendencies
In fact, I think I'll make that a bit of a rule - if I make any spoilers in the forums to any stories I am working on, they will be taken down within a day of being posted to avoid too many people reading them. Of course, I'll try to keep from making spoilers in the first place, but if something compells me to make them, they will be removed within 24 hours.
Apologies for any inconveniences.
Also, Marcus, since you quoted my 'spoiler' post, can you go ahead and at least remove the quote?
Thanks.
Instead, it looks like Elim will be taking action. One note on Cardassian psychology: they are not a people to lightly take the law into their own hands, as the Moabites are. This is not an everyday occurrence you may be about to witness...
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I won't disclose it without Daniel's permission, but there was a rejected plotline that paved the way for some of things that are about to transpire. Our thoughts may have been closer to yours than you might have suspected--or at least, mine...I'll let Daniel speak for himself.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Understandable, and I'll look forward to seeing what comes next ^_^ Might I trouble you for some thoughts on my recent collab with worffan?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
No problem