The K'Vort (1:00:57)- "The K?Vort? it?s just a big B'Rel. Right? So I'm not going to make a Negh'Var-sized B'Rel. If you look up the sizes of the B?Rel and? they?re just all over the place. They were never consistent in the show. What we decided to take out of that for 2409, you started with the B?Rel and you get bigger and bigger Birds-of-Prey. Making a Raider that huge is just, I wouldn?t be unable to justify a B'Rel/Raider turnrate for a ship that big. So, no. Whether or not we?ll call something a K?Vort? maybe?
If you guys didn't notice... Rivera invalidated his OWN argument....
But this neglects the issue... even if you refuse to make THIS canon ship there are STILL 2 other canon BoP out there: ENT era(Dr. Soong's) and Lursa/B'Etor's D12
Not to mention the D5 and Classic D7 Battlecrusier variants....
Hell you Frackers still haven't even made GREEN torpedos yet for the KDF....
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Well canonically... the Alt U K'Vort would have the turn radius about the same as the D'Deradix.... after all... Alt Picard said his Galaxy could out-manuver them.
He said the Enterprise could outRUN them.
That's not even remotely the same.:)
And then it was probably a case of higher warp speed only.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
I don't know..... She seemed to turn a lot better than the K'Vort did in the episode...
Those are two different matters.;)
One is a misremembered quote, the other is your perception of the battle.
Please don't mix the two up.:)
And given the situation they had in "Yesterday's Enterprise", the Enterprise-D had to constantly maneuver to stay between the Klingons and the Enterprise-C while the Klingons only had to charge forward.
So the K'vorts didn't have any need to turn around, only to keep the pressure up.
A much better example of "large BoPs" maneuvering was in "Redemption" part 1 and 2.
We see them do a lot more maneuvering during the battle with Gowron's ship in part 1 and in the brief battle near the star in part 2.
Those are two different matters.;)
One is a misremembered quote, the other is your perception of the battle.
Please don't mix the two up.:)
And given the situation they had in "Yesterday's Enterprise", the Enterprise-D had to constantly maneuver to stay between the Klingons and the Enterprise-C while the Klingons only had to charge forward.
So the K'vorts didn't have any need to turn around, only to keep the pressure up.
A much better example of "large BoPs" maneuvering was in "Redemption" part 1 and 2.
We see them do a lot more maneuvering during the battle with Gowron's ship in part 1 and in the brief battle near the star in part 2.
Redemption took place in the Alternate Universe with the Mogai/D'Dearadix sized BoP? Wow... I think i need to rewatch it... :rolleyes:
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Not going to happen. the KDF c-store ship will be forever 'in development-delayed', with of course the refrain "KDF isn't profitable".
then again, intentionally gimped factions in MMO's rarely are.
If they ever do release the C-Store KDF ship my greatest fear is that it will be another lame duck like the Bortasqu' causing yet more problems for us.
Sheesh ...What did Cryptic expect! The Bortasqu' wasn't anything like what KDF players had been asking for and in my opinion to make matters worse the ship was gimped with a broken cloak, a horrible turn rate, poorly performing consoles, and a 'meh' boff layout. Gee can't figure out why it didn't sell... :rolleyes: I know the ship has fans and people have done a lot of experimenting to get the most out of it, but even with all that effort it's a low end performer.
As much as I really wanted to like the ship and tried to make it work for me, it ended up a purchase I regret to this day. I just hope whatever they plan for the next one isn't as poorly thought out causing yet another slow seller keeping the 'lack of profit-no incentive to make more' cycle going. Give the KDF a ship that actually performs like the JHDC or the Romulan ships and Cryptic just might make some money.
To be fair, if Gecko wants to use the size problems to keep out a canon ship in STO, then why do we have the Defiant in the game?
That ship had just as much mas shifting; depending on what the producers wanted for a particular DS9 episode....
The K'Vort (1:00:57)- "The K?Vort? it?s just a big B'Rel. Right? So I'm not going to make a Negh'Var-sized B'Rel. If you look up the sizes of the B?Rel and? they?re just all over the place. They were never consistent in the show. What we decided to take out of that for 2409, you started with the B?Rel and you get bigger and bigger Birds-of-Prey. Making a Raider that huge is just, I wouldn?t be unable to justify a B'Rel/Raider turnrate for a ship that big. So, no. Whether or not we?ll call something a K?Vort? maybe?
K'vort = Big B'Rel
You start game with a B'rel and get "bigger and bigger" BoP
He can't justify the turn rate of a BoP that big.....
So why do the high end BoP NOT have a turn rate issue again?
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
the B'Rel was referred to in 'Rascals' and they reused stock footage of the battle from 'Yesterday's Enterprise', so - CANONICALLY - the B'Rel is functionally identical to the K'Vort.
What the tech manual says or doesn't say is irrelevant. As per the 'Rascals' example, B'Rels are K'Vorts.
I'm sorry , but that's just wrong .
'Yesterday's Enterprise' was a mirror/parallel universe .
As the Mirror universe has shown us plenty of times , things there are different !
That difference can be in anything , including ships sizes ... , as we've had examples of Mirror uUniverse technologies that existed there but never existed in ours (a crew killing beam that "eliminated" opposition from the captains quarters , torture chambers , a super Negh'var ect.)
Now I for one have waited for a long time for a better BoP . I don't think I am the only one .
The Fed's have gotten an Aux weapon ship , there are 5/2 weapons ships in game now -- all of which would do nicely for a BOP 3 Pack .
What it comes down to is this : I think that there are ppl here who do not want another BOP , and are willing to take their chances on another mediocre KDF "ally" ship of Cryptic design that is not likey to sell all that well because it's not cannon and unfamiliar .
Comments
If you guys didn't notice... Rivera invalidated his OWN argument....
But this neglects the issue... even if you refuse to make THIS canon ship there are STILL 2 other canon BoP out there: ENT era(Dr. Soong's) and Lursa/B'Etor's D12
Not to mention the D5 and Classic D7 Battlecrusier variants....
Hell you Frackers still haven't even made GREEN torpedos yet for the KDF....
He said the Enterprise could outRUN them.
That's not even remotely the same.:)
And then it was probably a case of higher warp speed only.
I don't know..... She seemed to turn a lot better than the K'Vort did in the episode...
Those are two different matters.;)
One is a misremembered quote, the other is your perception of the battle.
Please don't mix the two up.:)
And given the situation they had in "Yesterday's Enterprise", the Enterprise-D had to constantly maneuver to stay between the Klingons and the Enterprise-C while the Klingons only had to charge forward.
So the K'vorts didn't have any need to turn around, only to keep the pressure up.
A much better example of "large BoPs" maneuvering was in "Redemption" part 1 and 2.
We see them do a lot more maneuvering during the battle with Gowron's ship in part 1 and in the brief battle near the star in part 2.
Redemption took place in the Alternate Universe with the Mogai/D'Dearadix sized BoP? Wow... I think i need to rewatch it... :rolleyes:
If they ever do release the C-Store KDF ship my greatest fear is that it will be another lame duck like the Bortasqu' causing yet more problems for us.
Sheesh ...What did Cryptic expect! The Bortasqu' wasn't anything like what KDF players had been asking for and in my opinion to make matters worse the ship was gimped with a broken cloak, a horrible turn rate, poorly performing consoles, and a 'meh' boff layout. Gee can't figure out why it didn't sell... :rolleyes: I know the ship has fans and people have done a lot of experimenting to get the most out of it, but even with all that effort it's a low end performer.
As much as I really wanted to like the ship and tried to make it work for me, it ended up a purchase I regret to this day. I just hope whatever they plan for the next one isn't as poorly thought out causing yet another slow seller keeping the 'lack of profit-no incentive to make more' cycle going. Give the KDF a ship that actually performs like the JHDC or the Romulan ships and Cryptic just might make some money.
That ship had just as much mas shifting; depending on what the producers wanted for a particular DS9 episode....
K'vort = Big B'Rel
You start game with a B'rel and get "bigger and bigger" BoP
He can't justify the turn rate of a BoP that big.....
So why do the high end BoP NOT have a turn rate issue again?
It's called the plasma torpedo. It almost matches the green projectiles seen fired in Redemption I.
My character Tsin'xing
- Judge Aaron Satie
I'm sorry , but that's just wrong .
'Yesterday's Enterprise' was a mirror/parallel universe .
As the Mirror universe has shown us plenty of times , things there are different !
That difference can be in anything , including ships sizes ... , as we've had examples of Mirror uUniverse technologies that existed there but never existed in ours (a crew killing beam that "eliminated" opposition from the captains quarters , torture chambers , a super Negh'var ect.)
Now I for one have waited for a long time for a better BoP . I don't think I am the only one .
The Fed's have gotten an Aux weapon ship , there are 5/2 weapons ships in game now -- all of which would do nicely for a BOP 3 Pack .
What it comes down to is this : I think that there are ppl here who do not want another BOP , and are willing to take their chances on another mediocre KDF "ally" ship of Cryptic design that is not likey to sell all that well because it's not cannon and unfamiliar .
Hurrah .