Romulan temporal ships are not warbirds and use a warp core?

crazygunnerrr

So I unpacked my temporal destroyer on a romulan character, and while I did not expect that warbird consoles were usable on it, it is rather strange.
If you check the ship design, then it's obviously a warbird, no doubt about it, the design was definitely inspired by parts of the D'Deridex.

But it doesn't stop there. While this warbird implodes like other warbirds, it doesn't use a singularity core, it uses a warp core. Now while you could argue that the Romulans started using warp cores in the 29th century, why would it all the sudden implode?
Because of this choice, there is also no singularity abilities, which would be normal for a warbird.
Oh and lets not forget about the lack of a cloaking device, why would the Romulans, the masters of cloaking techniques, not put that on a ship that travels through time?

I'd say you need to make a Romulan ship of this, right now it's just a Fed ship with a different skin.

monkeybone13

This is not a bug. It is intended by design. Basically temporal ships for all 3 factions have the exact same stats, boff stations, consoles, and use a warp core. The only difference is that the ship's appearance between them is different. The romulan versions would have been too overpowered with a singularity core and abilities and a cloak, compared to the fed and KDF versions being exactly the same as each other. (The KDF temproal ships don't have a cloak). There is only 1 box for the lockbox temporal ship and 1 box in the lobi store for the other temporal ship, instead of 3 boxes of each - 1 for each faction. So the version of the ship you get depends on your character's faction who opened it.

And a dev explained the design process and reasoning about the romulan temporal ships

archoncryptic wrote: »

We discussed whether or not the Romulan Temporal Ships should have singularity cores quite at length. In fact, I actually built them to have all the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloaking and changed it later on in the design process - so, it's not an issue of laziness or copy and paste.

We chose to go with the Matter/Antimatter core for a number of reasons.

1. Precedent. The Klingon Temporal Ships came with identical stats to the Federation counterparts and did not have Cloaking (unlike the Klingon veteran ship, which did have Cloaking in exchange for lower shields).

Giving the Singularity mechanics and Romulan Battle Cloak to the Romulan ship would have made them the only distinct model, which may have come across as unfair to Klingon players. That would have left us with the options to keep the Klingon version as-is and potentially leave Klingon players feeling left in the dust, or to give the Klingon ships Cloaking and cut down something in exchange - which might have frustrated *other* players, who didn't like their stats being changed later.

We also could have buffed the Federation version in some way and given the Klingon version Cloak at the same time, but that would set a dangerous precedent for power creep, and the Temporal ships are already very powerful.

2. Continuity. By the Battle of Procyon V in the 26th century (ENT Azati Prime), the Federation has allied with many of its former enemies, notably the Klingons and the Xindi. (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Battle_of_Procyon_V)

While Romulan ships are not specifically seen on screen in that battle (and a 300-year old Nova design is), the rise of the Romulan Republic and its relationship with the Federation make it logical to assume that in the distant future, Romulans will be sharing technology with many species, including those with warp cores.

3. Players have been asking for Romulan ships that do not have the lower base Warbird power levels since the launch of Legacy of Romulus. These ships allow us to provide that as an option that makes sense within the IP.

It was a tough call. We knew that some people would want prefer the ships to have Singularity Cores and some people would prefer for the ships to have Matter/Antimatter Cores. Ultimately, we made the decision that we felt would be the most balanced, consistent, and appropriate to the IP.

crazygunnerrr

It's a nice story, but it doesn't add up.

Ok his reasoning is that he doesn't want it to be too powerful and that people wanted a warpcore ship, I can understand that. But that doesn't change the fact that the ship implodes, it doesn't change the fact that this IS a warbird.
As for consoles, why couldn't it use those? You can't get the powerful consoles from federation or klingon ships, now not from the romulans either. This makes this ship the weakest version of the 3.

So his reasoning is not only flawed, but the design of the implosion is just stupid.

xynoxx

monkeybone13 wrote: »

This is not a bug. It is intended by design. Basically temporal ships for all 3 factions have the exact same stats, boff stations, consoles, and use a warp core. The only difference is that the ship's appearance between them is different. The romulan versions would have been too overpowered with a singularity core and abilities and a cloak, compared to the fed and KDF versions being exactly the same as each other. (The KDF temproal ships don't have a cloak). There is only 1 box for the lockbox temporal ship and 1 box in the lobi store for the other temporal ship, instead of 3 boxes of each - 1 for each faction. So the version of the ship you get depends on your character's faction who opened it.

And a dev explained the design process and reasoning about the romulan temporal ships

The problem here is that balancing the ships also defies all sense of logic.

Trek hammers this point home over and over again: TRIBBLE around in time can have MASSIVE consequences, so anyone with a ship capable of time travel that also has access to cloaking technology is damn well going to use that cloaking tech so they can avoid all kinds of potential issues.

Yes, this leave the Fed ships out in the cold and distinctly second rate - that's reality for you. Just as the fed shuttle has to fight it's way out of the vault where the Klingon or Romulan shuttles stealth out with minimum combat.

Balance or not, Romulans get abilities the other sides don't because they use a different system the others don't have or won't use because it's too dangerous. Forcing them into something that does not fit their race just to make all ships equal is ridiculous and lazy.
It's one ship with 3 skins, not 3 ships.

The ships are not supposed to be equal, they're supposed to be different because they're made by three different races with three vastly different outlooks on life.

One size does NOT fit all.

monkeybone13

xynoxx wrote: »

The problem here is that balancing the ships also defies all sense of logic.

Trek hammers this point home over and over again: TRIBBLE around in time can have MASSIVE consequences, so anyone with a ship capable of time travel that also has access to cloaking technology is damn well going to use that cloaking tech so they can avoid all kinds of potential issues.

Yes, this leave the Fed ships out in the cold and distinctly second rate - that's reality for you. Just as the fed shuttle has to fight it's way out of the vault where the Klingon or Romulan shuttles stealth out with minimum combat.

Balance or not, Romulans get abilities the other sides don't because they use a different system the others don't have or won't use because it's too dangerous. Forcing them into something that does not fit their race just to make all ships equal is ridiculous and lazy.
It's one ship with 3 skins, not 3 ships.

The ships are not supposed to be equal, they're supposed to be different because they're made by three different races with three vastly different outlooks on life.

One size does NOT fit all.

If it doesn't make sense to you and/or isn't canon enough, then go ***** to cryptic about it. Don't come crying to me about it. I was just pointing out the response a developer gave when everybody else was ******** about the romulan version having to use a warp core and has no cloak.

Personally I could care less. I have no intention of ever getting any temporal ships.

paulyman

My issue is why should a lockbox ship be weaker than a free one? It is a romulan ship is it not?

It is supposed to be a romulan ship from the future, right? I feel that I was duped. I opened temporal lockboxed hoping to get this ship because as KDF is lacking in anything viabale and fun as a pure sci ship I would make my rommie a kdf sci. so I opened boxes and after about 60 of them got a temporal sci box. I saved it until they released the romulan one. That first day moments after patch I opened the box... I was excited and started moving gear I go to move my singularity over and... WOMP WOMP...

I use it now since I have this lockbox ship that I don't want to go to waste but I am constantly tempted to move it back into the BETTER free lvl 40 ship.

originpi

The stats are shown clearly before you open the box. The Timeship skins are just that, while the stats themselves are all identical. People whined the same way about the TSABR and TSAD not having singularity cores. Do you not read the stats before opening the box?

Personally though, I think warp cores are much better for science ships anyway. They make it much easier to get high aux power without missing out on weapons, shields and engines.


Using dilithium mine cores, using a warp core over a singularity core can give you something like ~50+ more total power. The singularity powers are nice, but gimicky, and thats a lot of power to help me do my space magic with.

Also, anyone who thinks that (anything, really) is a better science ship than the Temporal Sci ship should jump into a PVP sometime and lose to mad Wells/Korath/R'mor space magic.

monkeybone13

You know, this thread was posted in the wrong section. It belongs in the general discussion section, not the bug section.

crazygunnerrr

xynoxx wrote: »

The problem here is that balancing the ships also defies all sense of logic.

Trek hammers this point home over and over again: TRIBBLE around in time can have MASSIVE consequences, so anyone with a ship capable of time travel that also has access to cloaking technology is damn well going to use that cloaking tech so they can avoid all kinds of potential issues.

Yes, this leave the Fed ships out in the cold and distinctly second rate - that's reality for you. Just as the fed shuttle has to fight it's way out of the vault where the Klingon or Romulan shuttles stealth out with minimum combat.

Balance or not, Romulans get abilities the other sides don't because they use a different system the others don't have or won't use because it's too dangerous. Forcing them into something that does not fit their race just to make all ships equal is ridiculous and lazy.
It's one ship with 3 skins, not 3 ships.

The ships are not supposed to be equal, they're supposed to be different because they're made by three different races with three vastly different outlooks on life.

One size does NOT fit all.

I understand that ships are not canon, and hell, we as an community want even more of these ships, I know lots want the 1701(A) as an lvl50 ship, even though that would make no sense at all. I'm fine with that though.

This however is about a warbird using a warpcore, while still imploding and not allowing warbird consoles while it is in fact a warbird and cannot use lvl40+ consoles from FED/KDF ships, making it not only the weirdest ship ever when it gets destroyed, but is reduced in power because they don't label this warbird, as an warbird.

originpi wrote: »

The stats are shown clearly before you open the box. The Timeship skins are just that, while the stats themselves are all identical. People whined the same way about the TSABR and TSAD not having singularity cores. Do you not read the stats before opening the box?

Personally though, I think warp cores are much better for science ships anyway. They make it much easier to get high aux power without missing out on weapons, shields and engines.


Using dilithium mine cores, using a warp core over a singularity core can give you something like ~50+ more total power. The singularity powers are nice, but gimicky, and thats a lot of power to help me do my space magic with.

Also, anyone who thinks that (anything, really) is a better science ship than the Temporal Sci ship should jump into a PVP sometime and lose to mad Wells/Korath/R'mor space magic.

What stats are shown? I didn't see it used a warpcore, I didn't see that it couldn't use warbird consoles, I didn't see it explode like other warpcore ships. This topic is still legitimate.

I'm not dissatisfied that it uses an warpcore, but the implosion is wrong and the romulan version is the weakest of the 3.

monkeybone13 wrote: »

You know, this thread was posted in the wrong section. It belongs in the general discussion section, not the bug section.

Either read my posts, or don't post here.

Aside from the fact that the ship doesn't make sense, but the fact that the ship implodes while it has a warpcore, clearly is a bug, or at least a mistake they need to fix.

valethar

crazygunnerrr wrote: »

It's a nice story, but it doesn't add up.

Lets not forget the ridiculousness of this...

archoncryptic wrote: »

keep the Klingon version as-is and potentially leave Klingon players feeling left in the dust

After three years of treating the KDF as if they were 4th world immigrant boat people, why would they start caring how the players feel now? :eek: