What exactly is so wrong about Sci captains flying escorts?

maltinpolar

In the last few weeks I've been mocked and ridiculed in more than one occasion for flying the Heavy Escort Carrier in my Fed sci captain.

Why? What is so wrong about it that I deserve the "LOL sciscort" jokes? I keep reading that "there is no requirement that a science captain MUST fly a science ship", and that you can fly just about any ship you want -regardless of career- if properly built and geared. So again: what's the problem with my sci flying an escort?

I tried science vessels for a while and I think they suck: not enough DPS to save your life, crowd control and healing abilities a complete joke, and IMO not very useful or effective in PvE (I don't do PvP). Cruisers were just a little better, but I could fall asleep waiting for those things to do half a turn -even with RCS consoles- plus I suck at broadsiding. I like the head-on attack pattern better.

So I chose escorts and I've been having a lot of fun with them, to the point that I don't fly anything else in any of my five toons (2 Feds, 2 KDFs, 1 Rom). I get to contribute significantly in the progress and outcome of whatever mission I'm in, while at the same time supporting and healing my team mates. I may not be a DPS or tanking god, but really... who cares?

Anyway, some feed back from PvE-focused sci captains will be welcome.

Cheers.

talaj

It's pretty much a blatant indicator of the current state - and relevance - of Science in STO, that Science captains are flying heavily DPS-oriented ships like wannabe Tactical captains. Just zone out the people who comment about it and play what you enjoy.

I'm hoping given the new command interface being added to cruiser class ships, that something is in store for science vessels - though I would greatly prefer it to be some kind of synergistic boost involving sci captains in sci vessels (or sci/eng captains - just not tacs because they're too far out in front as it is).

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marshalericdavid

Nothing Wrong

Sensor Scan lower damage resistance of enemies = allows you and or your team to kill things faster

Subnucleonic Beam remove all buff of target = easier to kill target

Photonic Fleet creates some ships to help fight = help kill things

Scattering Field big boost to energy damage resistance = easier to stay alive so you can kill things

Science Fleet improves shield and its healing and Power Insulators = easier to stay alive so you can kill things

Looking at that Science would be welcomed in a Escort. In PvP I am more worried about a Escort flown by a Science Officer then anything because it can use Subnucleonic Beam to remove my buffs and with the Escorts DPS capability can wreck havoc.

dahminus

Can all three careers fly any ship? Yes.

Does any captain get any boost for flying a specific ship? No.

A tact captain will always do more damage then a engi or sci. Regardless of ship

A sci captain will always have the most powerful debuff. Regardless of ship

A engineer captain will always an "oh ****" heal. Regardless of ship.

Really though, no one should laugh at sci/engi in escort. If your gonna laugh at that, might as well laugh that they are a sci/engi captain.

warmaker001b

Guys giving you flak about being a Sci Captain on an Escort (in your case, the Akira) are idiots. They have no idea how combat works, how the 3 different captain classes work.

Personally, Sci Ships are useless unless you want to be a someone else's jockstrap and cup them for support, while you try to debuff and CC, and everybody else gets the credit and higher rankings. While you get squat for credit, trying to play with nerfed Sci abilities that are easily resisted to a point that NPCs just don't care, much less active players.

No. TRIBBLE that.

A Sci Captain on an Escort though is dangerous, PVE and PVP. TAC Captains rely on Attack Pattern Alpha and other commonly accessible TAC Buffs like Attack Pattern Omega, Beta, etc. Those, in short, make your damage go higher. Whether it's through sheer firepower (APA, APO) or debuffing resists (APB, APD), you get high damage as a result. Attack Pattern Alpha is great and is rather long.

But a Sci Captain? Naturally, in PVP & PVE, Subnucleonic Beam is great in stripping away all those wonderful looking buffs. Then, you have Sensor Scan, which with decent Starship Sensors skill, will land massive resist debuffs on a target. Couple this with using accessible TAC buffs like APO, APB, etc., then you will do quite alright.

In short, Attack Pattern Alpha wins by sheer, brute strength. SNB + Sensor Scan wins by weakening the target to a huge degree so you can lay into them just as well. And the effects of Sensor Scan last just as long on the target like they do Attack Pattern Alpha on the attacker.

Escorts really are the last reliable place a Sci Captain can play the damage game and win. Because he can't play it on a Science Vessel, because most of the Science BOFF abilities are pathetic.

mimey2

Nothing against you OP, but who have you been talking to? People making fun of sciscorts? Seriously?

Nothing could be further from the truth that they are 'bad'.

Quite the opposite.

khayuung

I think that's the only way to fly a sci captain outside of a carrier. Sci in a sci is asking for tears...

nagrom7

I've flown sci scorts for years (first fleet patrol escort, more recently temporal destroyer) and they are just as dangerous, if not more, than tactical. Tacticals do more damage, but if the target can outheal said damage then the escort is nullified. A sci-scort can use their subnuke and get rid of all those heals/resists and suddenly the target is panicking because they have no buffs and an escort firing on them.

So no, sci scorts work just as well as tac scorts.

linyive

maltinpolar wrote: »

In the last few weeks I've been mocked and ridiculed in more than one occasion for flying the Heavy Escort Carrier in my Fed sci captain.

Why? What is so wrong about it that I deserve the "LOL sciscort" jokes? I keep reading that "there is no requirement that a science captain MUST fly a science ship", and that you can fly just about any ship you want -regardless of career- if properly built and geared. So again: what's the problem with my sci flying an escort?

I tried science vessels for a while and I think they suck: not enough DPS to save your life, crowd control and healing abilities a complete joke, and IMO not very useful or effective in PvE (I don't do PvP). Cruisers were just a little better, but I could fall asleep waiting for those things to do half a turn -even with RCS consoles- plus I suck at broadsiding. I like the head-on attack pattern better.

So I chose escorts and I've been having a lot of fun with them, to the point that I don't fly anything else in any of my five toons (2 Feds, 2 KDFs, 1 Rom). I get to contribute significantly in the progress and outcome of whatever mission I'm in, while at the same time supporting and healing my team mates. I may not be a DPS or tanking god, but really... who cares?

Anyway, some feed back from PvE-focused sci captains will be welcome.

Cheers.

You are not alone. Before I started my latest tactical-science officer, I use to have a science-science officer. My problem with the science-space skills is that they do not work effectively. Cryptic nerfed them a good year and a half ago.

whamhammer1

I don't think anything is "wrong" with "sci-scorts". The biggest problem a sci-player may run into is if they have set-up their character build to be strong in sci-specific BOff skills, they will be playing at a disadvantage to their build.

dechala1

Ship setup makes the ship (Boff's, Doffs, gear, ect.)

Not the captain.

Just ridicule them back for having no concept of how the game works. And enjoy playing it how you like.

sevmrage

Agreed. I'm a Tac who likes cruisers. much to the chagrin of my fleet mates, who are desperate to get me out of my Dreadnought and into an escort. Sometimes I humor them.

pwstolemyname

Any one who mocks science captains in escorts hasn't got a clue.

The number one best ship for a science captain is an escort.

Subnuclionic beam is a limited opportunity ability. Once you strip some one of their buffs its just a matter of time before they can reapply them. Exploiting that vulnerability becomes easyer the more quickly you can aply DPS.

Sensor scan is an AoE debuff. using it with an AoE science power like gravity well works, using it with AoE tactical powers like scatter volley and torpedo spread works better.

Photonic Fleet provides the same effect regardless of the ship your flying.

The defensive bonuses provided by science fleet and scattering field are of more use to a less tanky escort then they are to a strongly shielded science ship.

Now lets spin this the other way, what about science ships? Who gets the most from flying those? Tactical captains and enginears both do better in science ships then science captains do.

Enginears help compensate for the need to split power between weapons and aux.

Tactical captains buff the damage inflicted by science abilities, not just that inflicted by weapons, and by buffing the ships DPS they can better exploit the moments of opertunity provided by the short duration debuffs that science boff abilities provide.

Now I am not saying tactical captains and engineers are better in science ships then they are in cruisers or escorts. Sci-ships have the lowest performance potential of the three ship types. But science captains are the least effective captain to put in one.

starswordc

sevmrage wrote: »

Agreed. I'm a Tac who likes cruisers. much to the chagrin of my fleet mates, who are desperate to get me out of my Dreadnought and into an escort. Sometimes I humor them.

Thankfully my fleetmates are much more enlightened. Most of us fly cruisers of one form or another.

This game is tailor-made to be played however the hell you damn well please. Ignore those idiots. To quote Kevin Costner in Bull Durham, "This game is fun! It's fun, ******n it!"

shpoks

OP, those people that ridiculed you for flying an escort with a Sci.Captain are numbskulls, to be blunt. Unfortunatley there are quite few of them in STO, so you just may have to learn to ignore it or laugh it up for the sheer stupidity it reprersents when it happens again, and it will.

A fleetie of mine runs a Sci.Captain in a Fleet MVAE. Deadliest thing I've ever seen.
I remember back in the day when this type of people laughed at me for being a Tac. in a cruiser. Untill everyone found out just how deadly of a combination it can be.
If the player knows what he's doing the class of ship doesn't matter, that's why all ships are open to any profession.

red01999

The biggest problem with science in escorts is not the player, it's the people who believe an MMO is nothing other than minmaxing to get the most ridiculously high DPS and complete all content in five minutes, ignoring any story or anything else.

While a science escort is not maxed out to its potential, it has versatility, and for many people can be pretty fun. I do not run my science toon in an escort YET, but I do have my MVAE claimed on him so one of these days I'm going to outfit it with DHC and see what he can do with huge guns instead of a huge deflector. I'm not sure the outcome will be that great, but that's probably because I'm not at my best in an escort, not that the combination can't work, and sciscorts strike me as benefiting from more tweaking than I have the patience or dil to work on.

As my main focus is tac in cruiser, I can only say "ignore them," because those sort of people are generally unpleasant to deal with anyway.

matchstick606

Back In pre F2P I would say no, the skill tree was very different from what it is now. Now you can fly whatever you want without any problem. Hell if I can fly a fleet nebula with my TAC you can fly a escort with a sci.

maltinpolar

Thank you all so much for your feedback!

I guess I'll have to grow a thicker skin and not pay attention to naysayers, hehe.

Sciscort all the way, baby!

Cheers.

lucho80

Nothing wrong with mixing class ships and captains to fit your needs. The combinations done right get pretty deadly.

hylanvahr

OP, I play mostly a fed sci that swaps between escorts and sci ships with some moonlighting with my Reman tac in a fleet dhelan warbird, but i also play a kdf sci that swiches between a B'rel retro bomber and a kar'fi carrier, so i have a fairly good idea what you're going thru.

The "lol sciscort" morons usually are on the fed side.

I never have that problem in kdf where all warriors are honored for what they can bring to the battlefield. I love the federation and its ships, but you would be amazed by how much you can learn playing a kdf sci in a super versatile BoP/raider. Back before the last tricobalt nerf, we were blowing up the cubes in Cure space elite without touching the support probes healing them. Sci+b'rel+high projectile skills+tac consoles+tricobalt mines=happy fun boom boom STF facerolling. I miss those days.

The perfect balance between escort and sci ship on fed side is the Vesta. Fire a set of three of the aux cannons+phaser turrets+high aux power+cc grav wells=big dps and a faster win. Short of that, ignore the bozos and play your nasty armitage boat with guns and fighter wings blazing, and hamstring the targets with sensors on grouped enemies and well-timed sub nucs on bosses.

Who knows, maybe we'll team up one of these days in the queues, you in your sciscort, and me with my andorian sci in a khyzon kumari with blue bolts of doom. Have fun! :-D

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ataloss

That's why I fly the Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (http://sto.gamepedia.com/Multi-Mission_Reconnaissance_Explorer) it's a Science/Escort hybrid. And my only toon is a Engineer. I don't see nothing wrong with it, for me it's the best of both worlds. I thought about the Heavy Escort Carrier, before deciding to go with the vest'as twin brother

The Heavy Escort didn't have enough science abilities for my taste.

futurepastnow

Sciscort is one of the most fun combos you can make in STO. Tac/cruiser is another fun combo.

The people who made fun of you are the ones who need to learn to play.

solarstreak

Sci in an escort can be fun. A well played one is going to be better then 90% of stf pugs, so don't be too concerned about what people say.:)

I'd recommend an escort with a ltc. sci station to squeeze in a gravity well. It's now great at holding probes n stuff. Pop the Gravity Well + Cannon Scatter Volley + Attack Pattern Omega/Beta + Aux Battery/Sensor Scan just at the right moment and their shouldn't be much left. It's just takes a little more thought because it's easier to waste a sensor scan, then say an attack pattern alpha. Also against certain bosses the subnuc of a sci is quite useful too.

ataloss

solarstreak wrote: »

Sci in an escort can be fun. A well played one is going to be better then 90% of stf pugs, so don't be too concerned about what people say.:)

I'd recommend an escort with a ltc. sci station to squeeze in a gravity well. It's now great at holding probes n stuff. Pop the Gravity Well + Cannon Scatter Volley + Attack Pattern Omega/Beta + Aux Battery/Sensor Scan just at the right moment and their shouldn't be much left. It's just takes a little more thought because it's easier to waste a sensor scan, then say an attack pattern alpha. Also against certain bosses the subnuc of a sci is quite useful too.

I've used that tactic so many times with my Aventine class, it's second nature to me. I think they gave me a medal for using Gravity well over 200 times (truthfully I've used it at least 500 times if I had to count).

nickcastleton

while i have never mocked any sci's flying a tactical or cruiser ship i have always wondered why.

although the game may be very dps focused i found playing on my tact escort that a lack of a sci ship has meant us loosing out on the bonus for omega marks many times.

My nebula uses tractor repel to push ships away from their goal then use gravity well to stop them dead in their tracks which means even if the escorts arnt well geared they can get the job done.


and though ive herd many wanting something similar to what cruisers are getting i haven't seen anyone come up with any ideas and if all they did was boost the sci bridge off abilities then whats to stop tact captains from using sci ships like the intrepid or luna?

misterde3

It's the internet.
People will mock everything no matter what it is, for whatever imaginative reason.
Sorry, not sure what else to say except: don't feel bad for being mocked...they should feel bad but they're too dense to realize that.

baudl

nickcastleton wrote: »

My nebula uses tractor repel to push ships away from their goal then use gravity well to stop them dead in their tracks which means even if the escorts arnt well geared they can get the job done.

the thing is, that all you do with your nebula, a breen cruiser, a temporal destroyer, or any other escort with more than 2 science boff slots can do too AND deal dmg like an escort with DHC and rapid fire, AP omega (which buffs sci abilities too), etc...

the problem (i rather call it the good thing) is, that you get already enough CC in many escort/escort-like ships that is more than sufficent for PVE enemies.

then there is also, as you mentioned yourself, that the game is tremendiously centred around damage dealing and the quicker something dies, the less need for CC there is.

perfect example is infected elite...after all 4 transformers are gone (remotely simultaniously)
the generator can be taken down before even one nanite sphere is anywhere close, if the group has enough dps (which means more escorts and DHC and not necessarely tac captains)

orondis

Someone is honestly mocking sci-scorts? Sure they won't do as much damage as tac-scorts but they're an okay alternate for PvE and their sensor scan is far better than fire on my mark. PvP wise their SNB spells doom.

As for sci's in sci-ships, while they may be poor in PvE they're absolute total monsters in PvP where holds, disables and other debuffs can really turn the tide of battle. This is mostly because NPCs don't use buffs to tank, rather they have inflated hull and shield HP. To fix this they should have their HP lowered and start cycling basic buffs (2x emergency power to shields 1 and 2x tactical team).

talaj

nickcastleton wrote: »

and though ive herd many wanting something similar to what cruisers are getting i haven't seen anyone come up with any ideas and if all they did was boost the sci bridge off abilities then whats to stop tact captains from using sci ships like the intrepid or luna?

There are plenty of ideas floating around in various forums, concerning science vessels and different ways of buffing them - and a few focused on boosting sci captains in sci ships, to avoid the otherwise inevitable fact of tacs taking any general boost and turning it to their advantage.

I actually believe only Eng captains should get access to cruiser commands, but somehow doubt that'll happen. -.-