New Cruiser mechanics and GAL-X

floppytechie

Hello,

So im really liking the new cruiser mechanics and a lot of my toons will thank cryptic when these updates hit,as i have a corsair,odessey and a bortas'qu.But i couldnt help but notice that while the galaxy class did get some buffs,the second most horrible thing about the gal-x (first being the lack of tac consoles),i.e the turn rate,is being addressed for cruisers in general,the galaxy did not receive the buff to turn(Command: Strategic Maneuvering).Please can anyone from the dev team comment as to the reason why the galaxy did not get this buff?The other 2 buffs are very important too but the turn rate is the second biggest issue and should have been addressed first.If the devs are worried about balance,they can take the Command:Attract fire in return for the turn rate buff.

So can any dev comment please?:)

darthconnor1701

I'd like to know also what exactly makes the G-X not able to follow in line with other federation cruisers and get all 4 buffs. Let alone what makes it so uber that your only allowing for 2 out of the 4. Attract fire seems kinda lame on a G-X when it could use the turn buff alot more then a buff to add aggro.

sevmrage

I hate to say it, but the Devs don't go here. In their eyes, there is evil here that does not sleep.

Pretty sure they don't care for the Galaxy family much. The Avenger pretty much replaces the Dreadnought, minus the Phaser Lance. Can hold DHCs, turns much better, has cloak, more hull...

Maaaan. The Galaxies are utterly worthless now...

khayuung

The gun IS the difference. Just need to build yourself for it. But I won't share my secret lest everyone copies, and forces devs to nerf it.

And also, I could easily reassign my eng boffs and turn into a combat support healcruiser, which is what I am in fleet 20mans and when a friend drags me kicking and screaming into pvp.

I've lived without a buff to turn for 2 years, I can carry on living with it. WSE is the most important buff for the Lance. Attract Fire however can be almost completely nullified by -TH consoles, giving the ship a +hullres buff.

The buffs given are all better for pve than pvp, but the Gal-X has always been an excellent ship for pve anyway.

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sevmrage

*points at my signature image*

I NEED to ask this... What do I have to do to get into the secret Dreadnought club?
I've put so much work into mine, and it still has a ways to go, and even though I'm a Tac Captain, I KNOW there has to be a way I can be competetive, I just can't figure it out...
I'm tired of being the weakest VA in the fleet, and I don't want to be relegated to Escorts cause I'm a Tac...

Please help. I don't PvP much, but I'd like to at least be a threat when I do...

mustafatennick

sevmrage wrote: »

*points at my signature image*

I NEED to ask this... What do I have to do to get into the secret Dreadnought club?
I've put so much work into mine, and it still has a ways to go, and even though I'm a Tac Captain, I KNOW there has to be a way I can be competetive, I just can't figure it out...
I'm tired of being the weakest VA in the fleet, and I don't want to be relegated to Escorts cause I'm a Tac...

Please help. I don't PvP much, but I'd like to at least be a threat when I do...

Just be incredibly deluded anything the gal x can do the regent or excelsior can do with ease and then go past what the galx can do and double in effectiveness

Except cloak but then it's not a battle cloak and swallows one of th already Drab 9 console slots

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sevmrage

In lieu of words...

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sevmrage

Heh, thanks. I literally couldn't think of words to respond to that with, so I used what first popped into my head. I know the Gal-X has its share of problems, but at the same time, I've invested time and research into it, and I know it has the power, it's just unlocking it.
(I just don't want to have to make a Fed Engie toon in order to be useful, if I can avoid it.)

neo1nx

sevmrage wrote: »

Heh, thanks. I literally couldn't think of words to respond to that with, so I used what first popped into my head. I know the Gal-X has its share of problems, but at the same time, I've invested time and research into it, and I know it has the power, it's just unlocking it.
(I just don't want to have to make a Fed Engie toon in order to be useful, if I can avoid it.)

being usefull with a dread is not impossible, with cannon or beam, it is more easy with beam tho.
it just that we have to give double effort to do things that other tact cruiser do just because the ship haven't been treated fairly in regard to it proffession and cstore rank.

as of today even the "niche" build of sir lancelot is not something that you can only do with the dread, the avenger with the cloack and cannon, a BO3 in one of it 5 weapons fore can do the job better.

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caasicam

The fact that the Galaxy-X, a ship that's quite frankly been left behind amid the power creep (coughcoughavengercoughcough), only gets two of these fancy abilities leads me to believe that there's going to be some overhaul for the ship. One that boosts it to the level of current Battlecruisers, or above. And that's just me trying to believe that Cryptic hasn't completely forgotten about a ship that they made a completely separate class for.

If not, well...

Just hoping that the big fix isn't just allowing saucer separation. Mainly because that ability is already obsolete because of the Odyssey. And the fact that throwing down another $20 to make a ship viable isn't too good.

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sevmrage

While I would love for the X to get Saucer Sep(And the tactical options it may present, the Lance turns into two different weapons there), I am really hoping for some kind of overhaul. It needs the lovins.

Besides, I wanna show my fleetmates that even though I'm a Tac, I don't have to try and tank all the time. The Galaxy Dreadnought needs to be more than just a cruiser. Right now, it's just a crappy Avenger with a really big phaser. It needs to be a scary dreadnought again, something that can go toe-to-toe with any other dreadnought. I want the guy in the Scimitar to fear my Lance as much as I fear that Thalaron Pulse.

caasicam

sevmrage wrote: »

While I would love for the X to get Saucer Sep(And the tactical options it may present, the Lance turns into two different weapons there), I am really hoping for some kind of overhaul. It needs the lovins.

Besides, I wanna show my fleetmates that even though I'm a Tac, I don't have to try and tank all the time. The Galaxy Dreadnought needs to be more than just a cruiser. Right now, it's just a crappy Avenger with a really big phaser. It needs to be a scary dreadnought again, something that can go toe-to-toe with any other dreadnought. I want the guy in the Scimitar to fear my Lance as much as I fear that Thalaron Pulse.

Exactly. As it stands now, it's almost a joke to go into PvP with the Galaxy-X. Last I heard, the Dreadnought Cruiser was supposed to be a huge, powerful battleship. Something that people aren't going to swarm around because they know it doesn't stand a chance against their JHDC or Scimitar Dreadnought.

With the stats that the Avenger has, it basically does everything the Galaxy-X does and more. Higher turnrate, more fore weapons, better shield mod, more tac abilities and consoles, cloak, etc.

And now the Avenger gets more Cruiser Abilities than the Dreadnought.

Personally, I think that just the inclusion of Strategic Maneuvering along with the other two powers would be beneficial for the Galaxy-X, simply because the turnrate is poor compared to other cruisers.

sevmrage

And that's partly why the Galaxy got the Dreadnought refit. It's a massive ship, a ton of strength, and the warp core to support the energy of the Phaser Lance, as well as the beam arrays and the cannons on the saucer.

And the Lance... While the Thalaron Pulse might be scary and maul stuff in a large area, let the Dreadnought's enemies know to keep separated, because there wouldn't be anything more gratifying, and intimidating that popping three ships at the same time with one Lance shot because they were in a row. (Or because you used the cloak and snuck up on them.)

caasicam

The lance definitely needs a reworking. The weapon most comparable to it, the Guramba's Javelin, not only has the potential to do way more damage (200k+ Crits, I mean really), it has 1/3 the cooldown time and hardly misses, even against all those zippy escorts in PvP.

Heck, I'm using low-level gear on my Guramba, and its Javelin is still far better than the Lance.

Even just boosting the Lance's accuracy would be helpful, seeing as it seem more like the "sniper rifle" of those huge ship-mounted weapons we have in-game.

sevmrage

Agreed. The Lance seems to work best when the target is stationary. Locked down by tractor beams or Warp Plasma. Shame, really. It would make a good sniper rifle sort of weapon, givven the accuracy gets a boost. Damage boost would help too, a little.

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wrathofachilles

Perhaps if the lance was an actual weapon as well as a console ability. What if the lance constantly fired like some sort of super heavy forward beam you get for free (i.e. you don't have to slot it, it's always there.) plus it had a special ability on a cool down to give that one big burst? Maybe that would help.

caasicam

wrathofachilles wrote: »

Perhaps if the lance was an actual weapon as well as a console ability. What if the lance constantly fired like some sort of super heavy forward beam you get for free (i.e. you don't have to slot it, it's always there.) plus it had a special ability on a cool down to give that one big burst? Maybe that would help.

Something like a Heavy Beam Array with a 45* arc? DPS would be comparable to other 45* weapons, might drain 12 weapon power like DHCs. I really like this idea, though it probably shouldn't benefit from beam abilities (like Overloaded) seeing as the Lance would be the big powerful shot. To keep it balanced and all.

sevmrage

If the attack looked like a basic Beam Overload attack, three shots, each for a DHC hit, that might not be too bad. It would look cool. I think I'd be okay with it if the X got a 5th weapon slot up front. (It's still a dreadnought, so leave the four aft slots.)

caasicam

sevmrage wrote: »

If the attack looked like a basic Beam Overload attack, three shots, each for a DHC hit, that might not be too bad. It would look cool. I think I'd be okay with it if the X got a 5th weapon slot up front. (It's still a dreadnought, so leave the four aft slots.)

Might not be able to leave the fourth aft weapons slot, seeing as none of the ships (yet) have any more than eight total weapons. A fifth fore weapons slot and something akin to the Kumari's special wing cannons would be very nice, and probably fix a few things for the Galaxy-X.

Something like, say...

Heavy Spinal Phaser Beam Emitter
Federation Dreadnought Cruiser

45' Targeting Arc
10 Kilometer Range
4 sec Recharge
To Target: 650 Phaser Damage x3 (270 DPS)
To Self: -15 Weapon Power when firing other weapons
To Target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 sec'


Yes, no, maybe?

neo1nx

caasicam wrote: »

The fact that the Galaxy-X, a ship that's quite frankly been left behind amid the power creep (coughcoughavengercoughcough), only gets two of these fancy abilities leads me to believe that there's going to be some overhaul for the ship. One that boosts it to the level of current Battlecruisers, or above.

your the second person that i read who came to that idea.
while i am seduced by this idea, i now don't bielieve this is cryptic intention.
it seem more and more clear to me that they think the ship is good as it is.
or that for some reason they don't want it to be better.

that is what i see, when i see avenger stats and new cruiser power that the galaxy x won't acces fully because it a dread while not having the stats of other dread in game.

wrathofachilles

Considering the turn rate on the gal-x I think it would be more appropriate for it to have a 90 degree targeting arc, not to mention it is a beam instead of a pulse cannon, which typically results in more flexibility of firing arc, no?

Unless it's going to hit harder than a dual heavy cannon on its normal shots... seems a bit excessive to have it draw 15 power... especially if it's going to be exempt from boff beam powers. But if necessary, perhaps it's power could be determined by weapon power, but it draws it's firing energy penalty from aux or something?

Honestly, since I think it should remain built in and not an equipable weapon, and if it's not going to fire at will or overload, it's power source should be independent of the other weapons, give it discrete power, or dedicated power, and should be constant and unaffected by ship power level. That way your lance is still formidable even if you divert power to shields or something, and your special attack on cool down won't be uber gimped if you don't have full power to weapons at the time... just some thoughts.

wrathofachilles

Also, question, I don't have a gal-x, so does the beam fire one uber shot or a few uber shots? And if it's a few, I certainly hope that all three don't miss when the weapon misses... that would uber suck. In fact it missing at all sucks considering how long the cool is...

caasicam

wrathofachilles wrote: »

Also, question, I don't have a gal-x, so does the beam fire one uber shot or a few uber shots? And if it's a few, I certainly hope that all three don't miss when the weapon misses... that would uber suck. In fact it missing at all sucks considering how long the cool is...

As of now, the Lance is one-two punch, firing two 9k damage beams. However, if the first one misses, they both miss. Unfortunately, this is quite often.

wrathofachilles wrote: »

Considering the turn rate on the gal-x I think it would be more appropriate for it to have a 90 degree targeting arc, not to mention it is a beam instead of a pulse cannon, which typically results in more flexibility of firing arc, no?

Unless it's going to hit harder than a dual heavy cannon on its normal shots... seems a bit excessive to have it draw 15 power... especially if it's going to be exempt from boff beam powers. But if necessary, perhaps it's power could be determined by weapon power, but it draws it's firing energy penalty from aux or something?

Honestly, since I think it should remain built in and not an equipable weapon, and if it's not going to fire at will or overload, it's power source should be independent of the other weapons, give it discrete power, or dedicated power, and should be constant and unaffected by ship power level. That way your lance is still formidable even if you divert power to shields or something, and your special attack on cool down won't be uber gimped if you don't have full power to weapons at the time... just some thoughts.

Was thinking a 45' arc for the fact that the main Lance is 45', and that apparently the smaller the weapon arc, the more damage those weapons do. Canonly, the Lance is an emitter, not an array, so it's just point and shoot.

Based the stats off the Kumari wing cannons, thus the inclusion of -15 weapon power, because it seems that Cryptic thinks that those uber cannons are balanced. Having it be unaffected by power levels would be pretty awesome, just afraid that it might be too much so.

Best case scenario for this idea would be for the Lance to get upgrades like this and still remain an innate ability

whamhammer1

floppytechie wrote: »

Hello,

So im really liking the new cruiser mechanics

What new cruiser mechanics?

wrathofachilles

caasicam wrote: »

As of now, the Lance is one-two punch, firing two 9k damage beams. However, if the first one misses, they both miss. Unfortunately, this is quite often.




Was thinking a 45' arc for the fact that the main Lance is 45', and that apparently the smaller the weapon arc, the more damage those weapons do. Canonly, the Lance is an emitter, not an array, so it's just point and shoot.

Based the stats off the Kumari wing cannons, thus the inclusion of -15 weapon power, because it seems that Cryptic thinks that those uber cannons are balanced. Having it be unaffected by power levels would be pretty awesome, just afraid that it might be too much so.

Best case scenario for this idea would be for the Lance to get upgrades like this and still remain an innate ability

I don't like that an ability you only get to use every now and again has such low accuracy.

Well if it keeps the damage high, I suppose it could stay at 45 degrees, but it will have to hit ridiculously hard to make up for how difficult it is to keep it on your enemy/get it on your enemy in the first place. But then that would make the gal-x like it was on the show, stay out from in front of it at all costs, lol.

Of course the devs don't seem super inclined to make changes to older ships... they don't feel the time is worth investing. Perhaps they feel too many gal-x sold even in its current state and the modifications wouldn't net enough sales to be worth it... not that it should be that much work anyway, models should be what take the most work, not coding tweaks. But then that model has a crooked lance and the cannon "ears" on the saucer are off center, so the model could use another pass anyway >> lol.